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Vaporized DMT not having an effect in those who it has worked for previously Options
 
sameoldsongam
#1 Posted : 6/26/2010 4:58:40 AM

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Recently, I have been quite stumped by the phenomenon of adequate amounts of vaporized dmt having little or no effect. I have seen this discussed before, though not recently.

This thread reminded me of the topic. In that thread:

Felnik wrote:
Quote:
"I've noticed that when you take a good hit and nothing happens that can be a sign to stop or give it a rest."

Joebono wrote:
Quote:
"Sometimes I can break through on a small hit with 30mg and other times I can't feel anything on a few deep gulps of DMT vapor at 70mg."


The past discussions led to one group of people thinking that it was a matter of method/efficiency and the other attesting that there was defintely no problem with their method/efficiency and that the same methods had worked for them in the past to produce breakthroughs. Some suggested that the lack of effects was a sign that one should take a break.

It seems to me that there are a wealth of very experienced users who have their method of administration down, and yet still experience this from time to time. I do not think this is a matter of efficiency of administration. Though I might agree it is time to take a break if this happens to you, the explanation that the dmt is trying telling you something by not working is not adequate to me.

Does anyone have any ideas as to why this occurs from a pharmacology/neurochemistry stand point? Any other ponderings on the subject are welcome as well.
 

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OpeningPandorasBox
#2 Posted : 6/28/2010 7:51:57 PM

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One other variable you did not mention that needs to be considered is spice potency. Depending on the quality of bark and how well it was extracted and even how old the spice is effects its potency. If say a person is comparing effects from 2 separate extractions or from fresh to older spice the effects may vary.
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Felnik
#3 Posted : 6/28/2010 11:28:54 PM

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THis is a very synchronistic thread as today i went out with a very potent batch of spice.

I even had a dose of caapi tincture that has worked successfully in the recent past.

I took a few smaller hits of spice with no significant effects to speak of. At that point nothing was unusual.

After a while I found a good location and loaded up a good solid hit of spice.

I took one fairly good hit of it and nothing happened. I waited a few minutes and took another one.

no effects at all, nothing, just a little spacey high thats it. At that point I took the hint and quit while I was ahead. I think this is where the mistake can be made to keep trying and loading up more and more spice

Its amazing to me when this happens.
3 days before this I had a full breakthrough experience on half the amount of the same high quality spice as I used today.
It was literally like hyperspace was closed today. I had no effects at all, no visuals no nothing.
I recieved zero feedback from the hyperspace realm today. Judging by todays effects i might conclude that hyperspace does not exist.



MY diet was minimal today as well nothing out of the ordinary. The only thing out of the ordinary was I was out in a rain storm. it was raining on and off pretty good.
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
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NoName
#4 Posted : 6/29/2010 1:39:01 AM

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Did you do anything before taking the not working hit that might have increased the levels of adrenaline or noradrenaline in your body (ie climbing a hill just before, or some other form of exercise, getting a fright etc)?

As far as I understand it (and I'm not a doc or medical student, so I could be wrong), it's the Monoamine oxidase B enzyme that catalyses the deamination of DMT in the body - the levels of this enzyme increase with exercise, or during the fight/flight body reaction as they are part of the mitochondria that enable cells to generate energy. I am assuming this would mean that exercise would result in a larger than normal concentration of MAO-B possibly causing the DMT to be broken down before reaching the various receptor sites that create it's effects...


Can't think of anything else ATM... Cool

OK. So who put a stop payment on my reality check?


 
ragabr
#5 Posted : 6/29/2010 2:33:08 AM

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At least some of these experiences have nothing to do with purity of product or any other external factors. Numerous individuals here have reported having hyperspace indicate that the time to breakthrough has not come. Also reported, included from SWIM, trying to push past that and end up tripping balls to an extreme degree but still no breakthrough into hyperspace. A couple of threads got started some months back, one from myself and one from obliguhl also address the topic with substantiating accounts from other Nexus members.
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vovin
#6 Posted : 6/29/2010 6:11:30 PM

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The only thing I could add to this is the possibility of MAO's being in high concentrations in the blood stream as a result of something you may have eaten previously. This is the only biological thing that I can think of that 'could' be the reason for the lack of a breakthrough using spice that is known to be viable. There is so much about how DMT works that we do not know. I have heard several times that for some DMT does not work at all which confounds me to say the least. I think someone stated that one of the old gurus reported that DMT will not work on around 5% of people. The question is what is in their makeup that causes it to be ineffective.
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Felnik
#7 Posted : 6/29/2010 6:32:27 PM

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Believe me i am not part of that 5% , there was nothing at all unusual in the diet beforehandin fact i hardly ate anything. The spice is potent and viable and worked 3 days prior with half the amount.

I don't understand it. I do know when that happens to stop immedietly and do not attempt to push it any further.

it was as if hyperspace was closed that day, no admittance.

The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
Arthur C. Clarke


http://vimeo.com/32001208
 
ms_manic_minxx
#8 Posted : 7/3/2010 8:55:20 AM

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When I have multiple entheo sessions, they usually go Aya->Spice, or Aya->mushrooms->spice, and they always potentiate beautifully.

However, one time I went x-no Aya-x straight to mushrooms->and then spice. I probably smoked @150-200mg, saw the herbs in the bowl explode into fractals, and had a strong sense of "ACCESS DENIED." I had also eaten the mushrooms with two friends who were definitely not ready to partake, so perhaps the universe was telling me to stop being gluttonous. Embarrased

The absence of MAOI effected some kind of cross-tolerance that usually doesn't happen.

Anyway, that was my only experience with not going... sometimes after 3-4 journeys I also get a sense of, "that's all for now." I go as far, but never further.
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Spiced
#9 Posted : 7/3/2010 1:08:16 PM

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I have the same problem, but always when i'm really tired, then i feel nothing from a dose that usually is more then enough for me.

Acolon5 said that eating mushrooms (hallucinogenic) could "disarm" the effect of DMT too.
Best is to waith at least a week before smoking the spice again, he said.
 
Infinite I
#10 Posted : 7/4/2010 12:37:04 AM

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OpeningPandorasBox wrote:
One other variable you did not mention that needs to be considered is spice potency. Depending on the quality of bark and how well it was extracted and even how old the spice is effects its potency. If say a person is comparing effects from 2 separate extractions or from fresh to older spice the effects may vary.


What if their beautiful white crystals could there be something wrong with the potency? Swims friend extracted beautiful white crystals, he hadnt smoked in roughly a year and went for it and got unbeleivably mild effects. He had worked up, being cautious and then just went for it a few times, lots of smoke, the initial oh here we go effects then nothing, he then tried it after the peak of aya, mild closed eyed visuals, never seen anything like it in swims life, really quite shocked and their white crystals, from pedro no less. Usual extraction, marsofold tek and now swim and his friends go when folks ask for dmt yes we have spice but eh its that stuff that doesnt seem to work, doesnt just not work for swim but everyone, and its white crystals, has anyone seen this before???? Swims smoking technique is perfect after lots of practice, tiny bits used to give great effects now this batch is like wtf???
 
NoName
#11 Posted : 7/11/2010 3:07:48 AM

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Potentially DMT could degrade over lomg term storage {this can be avoided by storing it in a freezer] or maybe its simply a white crystal which is not actually DMT? Analogues can be trippy while not as full-on as DMT itself is.

OK. So who put a stop payment on my reality check?


 
BGTM236
#12 Posted : 7/14/2010 1:35:15 PM
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Infinite I wrote:
OpeningPandorasBox wrote:
One other variable you did not mention that needs to be considered is spice potency. Depending on the quality of bark and how well it was extracted and even how old the spice is effects its potency. If say a person is comparing effects from 2 separate extractions or from fresh to older spice the effects may vary.


What if their beautiful white crystals could there be something wrong with the potency? Swims friend extracted beautiful white crystals, he hadnt smoked in roughly a year and went for it and got unbeleivably mild effects. He had worked up, being cautious and then just went for it a few times, lots of smoke, the initial oh here we go effects then nothing, he then tried it after the peak of aya, mild closed eyed visuals, never seen anything like it in swims life, really quite shocked and their white crystals, from pedro no less. Usual extraction, marsofold tek and now swim and his friends go when folks ask for dmt yes we have spice but eh its that stuff that doesnt seem to work, doesnt just not work for swim but everyone, and its white crystals, has anyone seen this before???? Swims smoking technique is perfect after lots of practice, tiny bits used to give great effects now this batch is like wtf???




How was the spice stored? A year is a long time, it could have oxidized which would decrease the potency.
 
SnozzleBerry
#13 Posted : 7/14/2010 2:36:13 PM

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BGTM236 wrote:
Infinite I wrote:
OpeningPandorasBox wrote:
One other variable you did not mention that needs to be considered is spice potency. Depending on the quality of bark and how well it was extracted and even how old the spice is effects its potency. If say a person is comparing effects from 2 separate extractions or from fresh to older spice the effects may vary.


What if their beautiful white crystals could there be something wrong with the potency? Swims friend extracted beautiful white crystals, he hadnt smoked in roughly a year and went for it and got unbeleivably mild effects. He had worked up, being cautious and then just went for it a few times, lots of smoke, the initial oh here we go effects then nothing, he then tried it after the peak of aya, mild closed eyed visuals, never seen anything like it in swims life, really quite shocked and their white crystals, from pedro no less. Usual extraction, marsofold tek and now swim and his friends go when folks ask for dmt yes we have spice but eh its that stuff that doesnt seem to work, doesnt just not work for swim but everyone, and its white crystals, has anyone seen this before???? Swims smoking technique is perfect after lots of practice, tiny bits used to give great effects now this batch is like wtf???




How was the spice stored? A year is a long time, it could have oxidized which would decrease the potency.

Agreed, but ime, oxidization should cause the spice to turn somewhat yellow and will still be pretty darn potent (I intentionally oxidize my xtals). Have you and your freinds been using other substances? Do you know how much you're smoking?
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dopestone
#14 Posted : 7/14/2010 4:20:36 PM

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i've never gone through this. the only thing close to this i can think of is being underwhelmed or disappointed with what i see.

my guess is bunk spice.

I'm not sure if I'm indecisive or not.
 
SnozzleBerry
#15 Posted : 7/14/2010 4:50:30 PM

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dopestone wrote:
my guess is bunk spice.

What is bunk spice? I mean, assuming that the DMT molecule was extracted, I don't think it could be bunk. DMT is DMT is DMT, I don't think it would randomly turn up inactive in one batch (it's a chemical that effects the CNS as a result of its structure/composition). If it's structure/composition were to change it would no longer be dmt. I think a more likely hypothesis is something different on a chemical level in the user(s) or method of administration.
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dopestone
#16 Posted : 7/14/2010 5:02:04 PM

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SnozzleBerry wrote:
dopestone wrote:
my guess is bunk spice.

What is bunk spice? I mean, assuming that the DMT molecule was extracted, I don't think it could be bunk. DMT is DMT is DMT, I don't think it would randomly turn up inactive in one batch (it's a chemical that effects the CNS as a result of its structure/composition). If it's structure/composition were to change it would no longer be dmt. I think a more likely hypothesis is something different on a chemical level in the user(s) or method of administration.


bunk as in something ain't right with it. it's not a dmt experience. if you travel with it and it doesn't trip you out then it is a bunk dmt experience. seems like he knows what he's doing from his post - if he's not the problem then it is his spice.

either that or his brain is bunk from traveling too much, maybe he's ran out of serotonin. maybe he should take a break.

something is bunk with his setup, since most people who travel don't ever run into this.

have you ever seen someone clear a huge hit and say "oh well this doesn't work?" no they are sucked into a trance and they have an experience.

I'm not sure if I'm indecisive or not.
 
SnozzleBerry
#17 Posted : 7/14/2010 5:08:05 PM

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dopestone wrote:
have you ever seen someone clear a huge hit and say "oh well this doesn't work?" no they are sucked into a trance and they have an experience.

Actually, I have. I think it's funny that you decided I haven't seen such a thing based on your own experiences, but ok. My friend, who's on this site under the handle pro_bert has been having this exact issue recently. He smokes both pure spice and jungle spice, but finds that it doesn't take him anywhere. We're talking doses over 50mg and he's completely lucid within 30-45 seconds of clearing the GVG. He's clearly having tryptamine effects on his body, but he is not journeying at all. I actually shot him this thread via pm, because I thought it was particularly relevant to what he's been experiencing.

In all the people I have dosed with dmt, this is the only case that I have encountered like this. I believe it has to do with a lot of his life circumstances and things going on around and with him, hence my questions earlier in this thread. This is something I'm interested in figuring out, because it is most definitely not "bunk spice" (whatever you believe that to be, if you can't explain it in real scientific terms it doesn't mean anything, these things have mechanisms for doing what they do, you can't just say it magically doesn't work) at least in the case that I am familiar with.
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BGTM236
#18 Posted : 7/15/2010 12:29:36 PM
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SnozzleBerry wrote:
BGTM236 wrote:
Infinite I wrote:
OpeningPandorasBox wrote:
One other variable you did not mention that needs to be considered is spice potency. Depending on the quality of bark and how well it was extracted and even how old the spice is effects its potency. If say a person is comparing effects from 2 separate extractions or from fresh to older spice the effects may vary.


What if their beautiful white crystals could there be something wrong with the potency? Swims friend extracted beautiful white crystals, he hadnt smoked in roughly a year and went for it and got unbeleivably mild effects. He had worked up, being cautious and then just went for it a few times, lots of smoke, the initial oh here we go effects then nothing, he then tried it after the peak of aya, mild closed eyed visuals, never seen anything like it in swims life, really quite shocked and their white crystals, from pedro no less. Usual extraction, marsofold tek and now swim and his friends go when folks ask for dmt yes we have spice but eh its that stuff that doesnt seem to work, doesnt just not work for swim but everyone, and its white crystals, has anyone seen this before???? Swims smoking technique is perfect after lots of practice, tiny bits used to give great effects now this batch is like wtf???




How was the spice stored? A year is a long time, it could have oxidized which would decrease the potency.

Agreed, but ime, oxidization should cause the spice to turn somewhat yellow and will still be pretty darn potent (I intentionally oxidize my xtals). Have you and your freinds been using other substances? Do you know how much you're smoking?



Ive never seen anything turn yellow from oxidation, why do you intentionally oxidize your xtals?
 
SnozzleBerry
#19 Posted : 7/15/2010 1:42:49 PM

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BGTM236 wrote:
SnozzleBerry wrote:
BGTM236 wrote:
Infinite I wrote:
OpeningPandorasBox wrote:
One other variable you did not mention that needs to be considered is spice potency. Depending on the quality of bark and how well it was extracted and even how old the spice is effects its potency. If say a person is comparing effects from 2 separate extractions or from fresh to older spice the effects may vary.


What if their beautiful white crystals could there be something wrong with the potency? Swims friend extracted beautiful white crystals, he hadnt smoked in roughly a year and went for it and got unbeleivably mild effects. He had worked up, being cautious and then just went for it a few times, lots of smoke, the initial oh here we go effects then nothing, he then tried it after the peak of aya, mild closed eyed visuals, never seen anything like it in swims life, really quite shocked and their white crystals, from pedro no less. Usual extraction, marsofold tek and now swim and his friends go when folks ask for dmt yes we have spice but eh its that stuff that doesnt seem to work, doesnt just not work for swim but everyone, and its white crystals, has anyone seen this before???? Swims smoking technique is perfect after lots of practice, tiny bits used to give great effects now this batch is like wtf???




How was the spice stored? A year is a long time, it could have oxidized which would decrease the potency.

Agreed, but ime, oxidization should cause the spice to turn somewhat yellow and will still be pretty darn potent (I intentionally oxidize my xtals). Have you and your freinds been using other substances? Do you know how much you're smoking?



Ive never seen anything turn yellow from oxidation, why do you intentionally oxidize your xtals?

Hmmm, maybe you've never had oxidized crystals? If you leave some of your spice just out in a jar on a counter by a window, you'll find the heat/light/air will cause it to change color as some of the dmt "degrades" to dmt n-oxide.

As to why I oxidize my xtals: I find it makes for a smoother, overall more enjoyable experience. It's funny, before trying dmt, if you'd told me that something would alter the come-up of a trip by 3-5 seconds, I wouldn't have thought anything of it, maybe even found it amusing. However, after trying a batch of slightly oxidized spice and comparing it to the "pure white" (I tend to use quotes for that cuz pure dmt is clear) spice, I found that I greatly preferred that experience. It's like taking off in an SR-71 Blackbird instead of a Saturn V rocket Razz . Whereas un-oxidized spice can rip you from this reality instantaneously, I find that slightly oxidized spice gives you an additional second or three to make any adjustments in your mind/body position as you are transferring between realities (and as each second can seem an eternity, it can really seem like a good deal of extra time). I found it quite a relief after a string of seriously intense and disorienting sessions with white spice.

Essentially what I do is, re-x my crystals to clear-white and allow my solvent to sit for a couple hours (to seed some larger crystals than a straight freeze precip would create). Then I freeze precip the solvent to yield crystals that are each a couple mm in length and width. Next, I drain the excess solvent and place a computer fan over my evaporation dish. Leaving the computer fan (it's an 80mm dual-ball bearing high-speed pc case fan) on high for about an hour (sometimes a little more) turns those clear-white crystals to clear-yellow. It's a pretty cool process as you can actually watch the color change from white to yellow.
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BGTM236
#20 Posted : 7/18/2010 9:09:12 AM
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SnozzleBerry wrote:
BGTM236 wrote:
SnozzleBerry wrote:
BGTM236 wrote:
Infinite I wrote:
OpeningPandorasBox wrote:
One other variable you did not mention that needs to be considered is spice potency. Depending on the quality of bark and how well it was extracted and even how old the spice is effects its potency. If say a person is comparing effects from 2 separate extractions or from fresh to older spice the effects may vary.


What if their beautiful white crystals could there be something wrong with the potency? Swims friend extracted beautiful white crystals, he hadnt smoked in roughly a year and went for it and got unbeleivably mild effects. He had worked up, being cautious and then just went for it a few times, lots of smoke, the initial oh here we go effects then nothing, he then tried it after the peak of aya, mild closed eyed visuals, never seen anything like it in swims life, really quite shocked and their white crystals, from pedro no less. Usual extraction, marsofold tek and now swim and his friends go when folks ask for dmt yes we have spice but eh its that stuff that doesnt seem to work, doesnt just not work for swim but everyone, and its white crystals, has anyone seen this before???? Swims smoking technique is perfect after lots of practice, tiny bits used to give great effects now this batch is like wtf???




How was the spice stored? A year is a long time, it could have oxidized which would decrease the potency.

Agreed, but ime, oxidization should cause the spice to turn somewhat yellow and will still be pretty darn potent (I intentionally oxidize my xtals). Have you and your freinds been using other substances? Do you know how much you're smoking?



Ive never seen anything turn yellow from oxidation, why do you intentionally oxidize your xtals?

Hmmm, maybe you've never had oxidized crystals? If you leave some of your spice just out in a jar on a counter by a window, you'll find the heat/light/air will cause it to change color as some of the dmt "degrades" to dmt n-oxide.

As to why I oxidize my xtals: I find it makes for a smoother, overall more enjoyable experience. It's funny, before trying dmt, if you'd told me that something would alter the come-up of a trip by 3-5 seconds, I wouldn't have thought anything of it, maybe even found it amusing. However, after trying a batch of slightly oxidized spice and comparing it to the "pure white" (I tend to use quotes for that cuz pure dmt is clear) spice, I found that I greatly preferred that experience. It's like taking off in an SR-71 Blackbird instead of a Saturn V rocket Razz . Whereas un-oxidized spice can rip you from this reality instantaneously, I find that slightly oxidized spice gives you an additional second or three to make any adjustments in your mind/body position as you are transferring between realities (and as each second can seem an eternity, it can really seem like a good deal of extra time). I found it quite a relief after a string of seriously intense and disorienting sessions with white spice.

Essentially what I do is, re-x my crystals to clear-white and allow my solvent to sit for a couple hours (to seed some larger crystals than a straight freeze precip would create). Then I freeze precip the solvent to yield crystals that are each a couple mm in length and width. Next, I drain the excess solvent and place a computer fan over my evaporation dish. Leaving the computer fan (it's an 80mm dual-ball bearing high-speed pc case fan) on high for about an hour (sometimes a little more) turns those clear-white crystals to clear-yellow. It's a pretty cool process as you can actually watch the color change from white to yellow.



Thats certainly something im going to try. My first extraction yielded clear, yellow crystals. It was whole bark and i used naphtha for my pulls, since then ive used powdered bark and heptane to yield pure white crystals. I did find those initial trips to be far more euphoric and much more visual, but i really enjoy the intense, complete and utter mind fuck that the white spice offers.
 
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