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69Ron's "Triple E" Tech for Elemicin Extraction from Elemi Oil Options
 
69ron
#1 Posted : 6/14/2010 9:43:33 PM

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EDIT: DMSO INTRODUCES PROBLEMS WITH ELEMICIN DIGESTION AND NEGATIVELY AFFECTS THE EXPERIENCE. TO SOLVE THIS ISSUE WITH THE TECH, BEFORE USE ALWAYS DILUTE THE FINAL EXTRACT AS STATED BELOW.

VERSION 1.2


There are a few extraction techs available on the net. Here’s one that is all over the place:

Quote:
Elemicin (4-allyl-l,2,6-trimethoxy benzene), C12H1603, constitutes the principal constituent of Manila elemi oil, in which it was discovered by Semmler1) who also gave it its name. It is found in fraction 277 to 280° of elemi oil.2) In order to isolate elemicin, the fraction in question is boiled for half an hour with formic acid. As Semmler has demonstrated by experiments made on anethol and safrol, allyl compounds remain unchanged, whereas propenyl compounds are destroyed.


While good to know, it’s not practical for most people.

SWIM did a test last night, and seems to have stumbled upon a simpler kitchen tech for concentrating the elemicin found in Elemi oil.

Here are the steps for 1 dose (0.5 ml, or about 18 drops).


69Ron's "Triple E" Tech for Elemicin Extraction from Elemi
1 - measure out 0.5 ml of 100% pure therapeutic grade Elemi essential oil and put in a small micro beaker (or any other suitable container).

2 - measure out 2.5 ml of the standard DMSO available at the health food stores (this DMSO is 99.9% pure DMSO mixed with 30% water, so it’s actually 70% DMSO) and add it to the Elemi oil.

3 - Mix the two liquids thoroughly for about 1 minute. Then let it sit for a few seconds. After a while the two liquids separate into two distinct layers. The clear bottom layer contains most of the elemicin. The sedative compound and a bunch of other junk in the Elemi oil remains in the top yellowish layer. NOTE: Before mixing, the top Elemi oil layer is yellowish and glows greenish blue in UV light while the bottom DMSO layer is clear and doesn't glow in UV light. But after mixing and settling, the top yellowish layer no longer glows in UV light, but instead the bottom clear DMSO layer glows greenish blue in UV light, indicating one or more components have almost completely migrated into the bottom DMSO layer.

4 - Separate the top yellowish layer from the clear bottom layer and discard the top yellowish layer. The clear bottom layer is your end product containing the elemicin. An easy way to separate the layers is by using a 5 ml glass pipette. A standard separatory funnel is simply too large to use for this. A micro separatory funnel would be fine, but honestly a pipette works very well. You could even use an HDPE plastic pipette for this.

Simply drink the DMSO DILUTED IN 1 CUP OF MILK or some other liquid.

Don't take the DMSO directly. If taken directly, the effects of the elemcin will be inferior, far less psychedelic, less euphoric, and it will have more stimulant effects, and may cause muscle tension in some people. It needs to be diluted. The more, the better. Apparently DMSO causes a lot of the elemicin to soak into your flesh and bypass the digestive system. It seems to be necessary for elemicin to be digested properly in order get its LSD-like effects. There is a theory that elemicin is aminated to TMA when properly digested. Concentrated DMSO would prevent this from happening to a good portion of the elemicin. While it's just a theory that elemicin is aminated to TMA in the digestive system, tests done by several of SWIM's friends seem to indicate that something like this is happening. So don't use the DMSO directly. Always dilute it before use.

After extracting the elemi oil into the DMSO, the foggy sedated withdrawn feeling of whole Elemi oil had at large doses is no longer present. Only the desired psychedelic elemicin seems to be active in the DMSO layer. But remember to dilute the DMSO prior to use.


How does this tech work?
If we look at the XLogP data for the various compounds found in Elemi essential oil, we can see that elemicin has a very low XLogP and should be soluble in DMSO, while a vast majority of the other compounds present in large amounts have a high XLogP value and will not be soluble in DMSO.

Compounts in Elemi oil likely soluble in DMSO:
Code:
00.2% Carvone                  XLogP3-AA 2.4
00.3% Methyl eugenol           XLogP3    2.5
03.5% Elemicin                 XLogP3    2.5
02.5% 1,8-Cineole (Eucalyptol) XLogP3    2.5
00.6% Terpinolene              XLogP3-AA 2.8
00.4% gamma-Terpinene          XLogP3-AA 2.8
00.4% alpha-Pinene             XLogP3-AA 2.8
Compounts in Elemi oil likely insoluble in DMSO:
Code:
15.1% alpha-Phellandrene       XLogP3-AA 3.2
54.1% Limonene                 XLogP3-AA 3.4
00.8% beta-Phellandrene        XLogP3-AA 3.4
01.5% para-Cymene              XLogP3    4.1
02.4% Myrcene                  XLogP3-AA 4.3
15.0% Elemol                   XLogP3-AA 4.4


Everything with an XLogP of 3.2 and up seems to be insoluble in DMSO. Since this is the majority of the oil, most of the oil is removed. Only about 5-10% of the oil remains in the DMSO. How much remains in the DMSO after mixing will depend on the oil used. Oil with a high elemicin content will lose a larger percentage to the DMSO.

The myrcene which is removed by this tech is very likely the main sedative component of the oil. Myrcene is the main active compound of lemongrass. The data shows that it should be active as a sedative in Elemi oil in doses as low as 14 drops. Because of myrcene’s high XLogP, it is insoluble in DMSO. The other compounds removed including limonene, alpha-phellandrene, beta-phellandrene, para-cymene, and elemol are most likely to be inactive at the dosage range present in 10-20 drops of elemi oil. I feel confident that myrcene is the compenent responsible for most of the sedation felt in Elemi oil doses above 12 drops. It’s the only sedative compound present in Elemi oil that I know is active at such a small doses.

While the extract produced by this tech is not pure elemicin, it’s effects are dramatically cleaner than whole Elemi oil. Very few of the compounds soluble in DMSO are active at the small amounts present. Elemicin is apparently very potent, being the most active compound in whole Elemi oil, despite it being present in pretty small amounts. By removing the non DMSO soluble compounds, we effectively remove about 90-95% of the oil, leaving elemicin and eucalyptol (1,8-cineole) in the DMSO as the primary compounds. With eucalyptol being many times less potent than elemicin, its effects are virtual absent from the experience had from using the DMSO. For eucalyptol to be an effective sedative you need about 2 ml of it. With Elemi oil containing only about 2.5% eucalyptol, you’d need 80 ml of Elemi oil to get an effect from the eucalyptol in it, while you need only 0.1-0.5 ml of Elemi oil to get an effect from the elemicin. So clearly the eucalyptol present in the DMSO is not going to do anything at doses high enough to get a decent elemicin trip.


Eucalyptol Contamination Causing Sedation in the End Product?
The main sedative in the oil is myrcene, but this is removed by this tech. If your Triple E extract is still sedating, it’s very likely contaminated with a lot of eucalyptol. After doing some research, I found that some elemi oil is pretty high in eucalyptol. Eucalyptol will be extracted along with elemicin using this tech. It is difficult to remove it.

Like myrcene, eucalyptol will interfere with the psychedelic effects of elemicin, and some people are apparently very sensitive to the effects of eucalyptol, only needing a drop to feel it!

Eucalyptol has the following actions: antiseptic, antispasmodic, depressant, expectorant.

Side effects from eucalyptol include: headache, lightheadedness, sedation, respiratory depression, vomiting, drop in blood pressure, circulation problems, collapse, and asphyxiation.

Eucalyptol is something you don’t want to ingest in high amounts. If your end product is still sedating, it’s most likely contaminated with lots of eucalyptol, or you are very sensitive to eucalyptol. My advice, don’t up the dose if you feel sedation. Find a different source of elemi oil, one that is high in elemicin and low in eucalyptol. Elemi oil that is high in elemicin smells like nutmeg and roses. The end product of this extract should smell strongly of nutmeg.


Does this work with nutmeg oil?
SWIM has not tried this with nutmeg oil. It may possibly help cleanup the nutmeg oil experience. However the XLogP3 of myristicin is 2.9, so it might not get all of the myristicin out of the oil. It would however get most of the elemicin out (it has an XLogP3 of 2.5 so it’s more soluble in DMSO).
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polytrip
#2 Posted : 6/14/2010 10:27:58 PM
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Galanga, wich is a herb simmilar to ginger, well known in asian cooking from china to indonesia, is also an ancient folk medicine. It's sold in asian shops at very low prices and it is also sold in 'smartshops' as a herbal hallucinogen at much higher prices. I have never heard of any sedating or nauseating effects from it and it is used as a stimulant (one of the things it is used against as a medicine IS nausea) so maybe it doesn't even need a treatment with DMSO. It doesn't contain elemicin as far as i know, but it does contain galangol, alpinin, galangin, kaempferid. By the sound of it they seem simmilar substances.

I have often used it when cooking, but never in amounts large enough to get hallucinogenic effects from. It's taste is somewhere in between lemongras and ginger.

It would be great if you could just make tea of it and get the same results as with elemicin or acetone-washed calamus. I have some of it powdered and all, in a jar but i don't think it's enough to get results from.

Yet for stimulant effects it might do.
 
Ginkgo
#3 Posted : 6/15/2010 2:23:03 AM

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Thanks for the write-up! Do one really need 5 times the amount DMSO compared to elemi oil, or is this a suggestion from you?
 
69ron
#4 Posted : 6/15/2010 2:31:48 AM

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That remains to be seen. I have no idea what the solubility of elemicin is in DMSO. I can't find any solubility information anywhere on elemicin. The XLogP3 of elemicin is 2.5 which is the same as DMT.

DMT is extremely soluble in DMSO, and elemicin might be aswell, but I just don't know. The amount used in that tech is just a guess based on virtually no data to go by. SWIM wanted to make sure he used enough DMSO to dissolve most of the elemicin, so he overdid the DMSO on purpose.

It's possible many times less DMSO can be used. Maybe even a 1:1 ratio of DMSO to oil, or maybe even less is needed?

This is a first draft. It's been used by SWIM only 1 time, so it's bound to need tweaking to get it optimized.
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Ginkgo
#5 Posted : 6/15/2010 3:09:06 AM

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Ok, that is what I thought, and that is great news! I have ordered some liquid DMSO from Ebay, and will join in with the testing as soon as that and my oil arrives. I am also in the process of obtaining some pure elemicin to test its true entheogenic properties.

Please keep us updated on any progress you may make! Thanks again for this work, it truly amazes me when one can find these treasures hidden in plain sight.
 
69ron
#6 Posted : 6/15/2010 5:42:38 AM

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Evening Glory wrote:
I am also in the process of obtaining some pure elemicin to test its true entheogenic properties.


Elemicin is sold as a flavoring and perfume ingredient. It's purchase is apparently not watched, unlike safrole.

I have not seen any place selling it in small quantities, only companies that sell business to business seem to stock it.

If venders carrying things like mimosa start carrying pure elemicin, it will probably get banned right away. I hope that doesn't start happening. Elemi oil has been sold openly for hundreds of years so I can't see that suddenly becoming illegal. Nutmeg oil has been abused for its hallucinogenic properties for ages and it still remains legal. But if myristicin and elemicin suddenly start appearing as pure compounds offered at head shops, then I'm sure things will change.

I imagine that pure elemicin is actually pretty cheap. The tech used to isolate elemicin from Elemi oil is simple enough anyone with distillation equipment can do it, and it can be done easily on an industrial scale.

I have to start looking around at some do it yourself perfume supply shops to see if I can find pure elemicin in small quantities. That would be nice.
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69ron
#7 Posted : 6/16/2010 2:09:16 AM

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UPDATE: SWIM knows several people who have tried this tech and had success with it. Also SWIM has been able to repeat the test on himself 2 times. So there is no doubt it works.

His latest experience was today. He used 0.6 ml of elemi oil and used the TripleE tech above to remove the sedative component from the oil. It works VERY WELL. There was not even a tiny hint of sedation even at 0.6 ml of elemi oil.

The trip was very clean. It started after 5 minutes of ingesting the DMSO extract, and peaked after about 3 hours. The whole trip was stimulating, very euphoric, very clear headed, and there were very obvious visual effects.

SWIM can better tell the character of the psychedelic effects after the sedative is removed from the oil. It’s definitely unique. It’s like a cross between LSD and mescaline. But then it’s got its own character. The euphoria and mild stimulation seem to be the main effects, the visual effects are similar to LSD, but less pronounced than either LSD or mescaline. The body feel is more like mescaline. The head space is unique. Unlike LSD or mescaline. But more slanted towards LSD. It seems to effect the mind less than LSD or mescaline.

About 1 hour ago, SWIM took 50 mg of mescaline to see if there’s any synergy present.
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Ginkgo
#8 Posted : 6/16/2010 2:29:11 AM

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Thanks for the update! How much of the original weight is actually removed by the DMSO extraction? It would be interesting to compare with your suggestions of which substances that are soluble and which is not. The content of the various compounds do of course vary between different oils, but still it would be interesting to compare.
 
Ginkgo
#9 Posted : 6/16/2010 2:32:35 AM

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What would be an effective way of removing the DMSO after the extraction? I guess it will evaporate very slowly, given the high boiling point at 189 C.

Have you tried applying the DMSO solution to your skin? It would be very interesting to see how that works.
 
69ron
#10 Posted : 6/16/2010 3:34:46 AM

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Evening Glory wrote:
Thanks for the update! How much of the original weight is actually removed by the DMSO extraction? It would be interesting to compare with your suggestions of which substances that are soluble and which is not. The content of the various compounds do of course vary between different oils, but still it would be interesting to compare.


I would like to know exactly what is going where in this DMSO extraction. I’m assuming a lot in the tech. SWIM has not measured the weight of either. He’s only measured it by volume by eyeing it in the pipette, which is inaccurate of course. It looks somewhere between 5-10% of the oil by volume is migrating to the DMSO. There’s at least one or more fluorescent compounds that are nearly completely migrating into the DMSO after mixing it. I would love to know what’s fluorescing.

Does elemicin fluoresce greenish blue in UV light?

Evening Glory wrote:
What would be an effective way of removing the DMSO after the extraction? I guess it will evaporate very slowly, given the high boiling point at 189 C.


Evaporation of DMSO is going to take FOREVER! That’s not much of an option. I think perhaps adding a lot of water to the DMSO, making the elemicin insoluble in it (if possible), and then extracting with something like DCM would work. I don’t like the idea of elemicin contaminated with DCM though. DCM is just plain nasty. You absolutely don’t want it in the final product. I just can’t think of a good non-polar solvent to use here. Food grade d-limonene would pose a problem because it also doesn’t evaporate fast.

Evening Glory wrote:
Have you tried applying the DMSO solution to your skin? It would be very interesting to see how that works.


No, that hasn’t crossed SWIM’s mind. In every test I’ve done using DMSO applied to the skin, nothing worked at all, so I have little hope for that working. But it does apparently work for some compounds, so it just might work with elemicin. But elemicin seems to not absorb sublingually at all, so I have my doubts it will work with it. It’s worth a try though.

The DMSO used above is not much. 2.5 ml is less that the amount most people take. The normal DMSO dose used orally as a supplement is 5-10 ml a day. So it doesn’t bother me that the DMSO is used. I know some people hate DMSO. I find the taste similar to garlic, and I like garlic, so the flavor is not a turn off for me. Besides, with the elemicin in it, all you taste is the elemicin.


One thing I should note is that this method of using elemicin dissolved in DMSO makes digestion really fast and also seems to prevent elemi oil burps from happening.


Now as far as mixing it with mescaline goes, it goes VERY WELL WITH MESCALINE! The 50 mg of mescaline HCl used earlier by SWIM has sort of taken over the experience of the DMSO extract 0.6 ml of elemi oil. The 50 mg of mescaline is about as strong as 100 mg of mescaline. The combination is excellent. It’s more euphoric than either is on their own, and also more visual. The visuals have taken on character of mescaline visuals. The “daydream” visual character of the elemicin is still present with the eyes closed and this is greatly enhanced by the mescaline.

The mescaline added a very nice empathogenic and relaxed feeling to the trip. It also added an erotic component to the trip.
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Ginkgo
#11 Posted : 6/16/2010 3:51:14 AM

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69ron wrote:
Evaporation of DMSO is going to take FOREVER! That’s not much of an option. I think perhaps adding a lot of water to the DMSO, making the elemicin insoluble in it (if possible), and then extracting with something like DCM would work. I don’t like the idea of elemicin contaminated with DCM though. DCM is just plain nasty. You absolutely don’t want it in the final product. I just can’t think of a good non-polar solvent to use here. Food grade d-limonene would pose a problem because it also doesn’t evaporate fast.

Oh no, I wouldn't touch DCM with a ten foot pole! Thanks for the thoughts though.

69ron wrote:
One thing I should note is that this method of using elemicin dissolved in DMSO makes digestion really fast and also seems to prevent elemi oil burps from happening.

That's an excellent point - the DMSO likely speeds the absorption of elemicin rapidly. That's a good argument not to remove the DMSO, as a come-up of 3 hours is something I think we all want to avoid.

It's great to hear that the combo with mescaline works great! It really looks more and more like elemicin is a true hallucinogen even in high doses. I am very much looking forward to see how that turns out!
 
Touche Guevara
#12 Posted : 6/16/2010 4:27:51 AM
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Amazing, will be following this thread closely.

Anyone know whether DMSO could be useful in increasing the bio-availability of other molecules?
 
69ron
#13 Posted : 6/16/2010 4:39:21 AM

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Evening Glory, the mescaline combo is peaking a little later than expected...it seems to be peaking right now actually...it's a little bit freaky, maybe SWIM is just a little nervous because this is the first time he's experienced this kind of effect. It's currently different from both elemicin and mescaline. There's more warpage of visual data, and it's easy to get lost in a daydream. SWIM was laying back and daydreaming away and then suddenly got up to go upstairs and he lost his balance a little for a while there. Things look warped. SWIM's body feels warped too. This LSD-style warpage was a little unexpected and is kind of strong. The mind is very clear though. I guess SWIM is just nervous. The peak of the mescaline is taking longer than it should take for SWIM, and its getting stronger as I am typing this response. It feels more elemicin like or LSD-like now. It's almost like a different phase is in effect.

SWIM used impure mescaline HCl in this test, so there's likely other cacti compounds effecting the experience, which could explain why it's very different now.
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Dorge
#14 Posted : 6/16/2010 5:09:04 AM

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hmmmm formic acid is really easy to get actually... and the extraction of elemicin with it seems fairly simple. I am not fond of DMSO, but I am glad you came up with this tek, and may try it... but the formic acid tek seems more attractive in that i dont have to swallow dmso, which swim has done... and its kinda icky.
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Ginkgo
#15 Posted : 6/16/2010 5:21:16 AM

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Dorge wrote:
but the formic acid tek seems more attractive in that i dont have to swallow dmso, which swim has done... and its kinda icky.

Icky in what sense? Taste and/or sensation of swallowing it? You could always put it in something else. I am thinking about creating chocolates with the DMSO + elemicin solution, is there any reason that's not going to work?
 
Dorge
#16 Posted : 6/16/2010 6:02:18 AM

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swim never like the way it made him feel... and he certainly did not like the taste.. its like a full body taste.
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Ginkgo
#17 Posted : 6/16/2010 6:08:50 AM

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Could you elaborate on the way it made you feel? I have never tried DMSO, and would for sure not like anything to ruin an otherwise good elemicin experience.
 
69ron
#18 Posted : 6/16/2010 6:15:23 AM

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I don't find DMSO icky at all and I never felt anything from it on it's own. Its like liquid garlic sort of.

When mixed with elemicin, the flavor of the elemicin totally overpowers the flavor of the DMSO though. It's way stronger than the DMSO. So you hardly can tell it's mixed in DMSO.

I can see the desire to have a DMSO-free mix for those who don’t like it. SWIM is going to work on this a little more and maybe come up with a way to get the elemicin out of the DMSO without introducing any toxic or non-food grade solvents.
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obliguhl
#19 Posted : 6/16/2010 9:34:45 AM

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I did not follow the saffrole Thread, so this comes as a pleasent surprise to me. Thanks for your research! One question though... can you seperate the layers without using UV light?
 
69ron
#20 Posted : 6/16/2010 11:55:08 AM

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Yes, you don't need UV light. I should make that clearer in the tech. It's as plain as day with the naked eye which later is the DMSO and which is the garbage to remove. Elemi oil is slightly yellowish. DMSO is clear. After mixing them thoroughly and letting it sit for a few seconds they separate completely. The DMSO is the bottom layer and it's totally clear (unless you shine a UV light at it and then it becomes greenish blue). The junk layer to remove is the top layer, and it's slightly yellowish, the color of Elemi oil. Apparently the colored compound present in Elemi oil isn't soluble in DMSO. Actually most of the compounds in Elemi oil are not soluble in DMSO. Luckily the elemicin is. So anyway, after mixing you discard the top yellowish layer and keep the bottom clear layer.

If you wanted, instead of discarding the top yellowish layer, you could always keep it and use it separately as a sedative. It's a nice sedative. SWIM just doesn't like it mixed with elemicin. The sedative totally ruins the elemicin experience.

I'll add some pics to this tech later. A picture is worth a thousand words, as they say, and a few would make the tech much easier to follow.
PLEASE DO NOT PM ME.
I do not answer PMs! I delete all PMs no matter who they are from, even from a good friend. I don't have time for the PMs. I have very little free time. If you have a question just post it in a threadSmile


All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
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