I am curios as to the diffrence between a break thru from straight spice and a changa mixture using caapi leaves. Can anyone give me a idea of how much stronger adding a maoi like caapi to the smoke is? Furthermore does caapi leaves need to be concentrated or are they highly effective in their natural state? I have been out of the loop in this area for some time so I am just trying to get my bearings. From what I can discern the caapi leaves are far stronger than the vine am I correct in this assumption?

To me breakthrough is a breakthrough, regardless of weather it was with changa or straight spice. The main difference for me is, changa is a little more guiding, I get alot of black, green, blue with caapi changa, also there seems to be alot of a viney kinda feel to it. Straight spice gives me a really colorfull experiece. The caapi gives a warm hand to hold onto, its not any stronger than spice IMO, just lasts a while longer. To me straight spice it pure power, changa is a little more gentle.

And no, the leaves dont need to be concentrated, just mixing up spice and normal caapi leaves 1:1 does the job just fine.

I dont know if the leaves are stronger than the vine, what I do know is that they taste alot better than smoking vine, quite smooth infact. So for now il keep my vine for tea and leaves for changa.

I find caapi leaf mix to be the perfect consistency and weight for smoking. 80mg at 1:1 just about fills the bowl of my bong, and has a light, airy density. This means it burns evenly and just needs a flick of flame to get it going. I can always clear the bowl in 1 long hit.

The only noticeable difference to me is the length of the afterglow. Without caapi I normally come out of a breaktrough with a "bump" and am back to pretty much baseline 2-3 mins after coming back from hyperspace. With Caapi it seems muh more gradual, and I can drift back slowly. I find this makes it easier to integrate the two states, and I have 5 mins or so of blissful reflection.

I have never tried concentrated leaf, but intend to one day.

I find changa to be noticably way more euphoric and seems to have a nature much more of this world. Made with vine the experience is more dreamy like ayahuasca, but for me changa is all about the leaf, as the experience feels so clean and so pure. I remember reading somewhere... possibly here on the nexus that the leaves contain less harmaline than the vine which is why the leaf experience is much lighter.

I don't know why this is, but with changa, my heart doesn't start trying to jump out of my chest of soon as I load my pipe

Breakthroughs don't appear substantially different to SWIM, but the transition to them happens very gently.

Like 1664, the return comes more gradually for her. When she returns from straight spice, the change happens so abruptly that it seems like the session is declared done. With changa, she just dives in and out of hyperspace for as long as feels right, so she'll have 3-4 breakthroughs in 45 minutes to an hour and then spend another 30 minutes integrating.

I’ve also wondered about this, and I wonder about the MAOI effects from changa.

Let’s say you make 1:1 caapi leaf: DMT changa. If a dose is 100mg, that means you’re smoking 50mg of caapi leaf. Now, if caapi leaves contain 1% harmala alkaloids (I don’t know what the actual percentage is), this would mean a dose contains only 0.5mg of alkaloids.

Is 0.5mg harmala alkaloids smoked enough to produce effects? I’ve tried caapi: DMT changa, and subjectively there seems to be a difference from plain spice, but I don’t understand why.

How can such a small amount of harmala alkaloids produce an effect? Or is the percentage of alkaloids much higher? And if it’s much higher, why aren’t leaves used more as a source for alkaloids?

Thats right... with a good 10x caapi leaf blend... or even it added with a concentration of vine added to it... you can make it last for hours even.
And yes leaf has no harmaline in it. So it is less stoning.

Damn The newbies here have it lucky you guys are doing a helluva job answering questions. Thanks all. Me thinks my curiosity is getting the best of me.

this site is amazing...

will vovin ride again!?

keep us posted...

JBArk

I'm not sure I understand what is meant by this?...

I'm somehow imagining this to be concentrated Caapi-leaf, which I am not sure how one would arrive at this.

But I am wondering about adding a small amount of Caapi Freebase Alkaloids back to the leaf while making Changa.

This is what my self think concentrated Cappi leaf is; although I am sure this is not what you are referring to.

What are you referring to please...

^^ I believe you take 10g of leaf, soak in IPA for a few weeks, then use that IPA on another 1g spice : 1g leaf blend. This makes the effect of the leaf much stronger.

i am currently soaking 10 grams of caapi cielo leaf in ipa.

i am leaving it to soak for 2 weeks then am infusing it onto 2 grams of leaf.

This will make for leaf with 6x potency.

I will then infuse 2 grams of acacia acuminata extracted then sodium carbonate washed dmt onto it.

I will report back with my findings about the difference between smoking mullein/blue lotus enhanced leaf and caapi 6x extract changa.

:-)

Straight spice seems to be much more forceful and confusing. Although it seems to take less spice when its straight to reach hyperspace but with changa it lasts longer so...each has its own perks

yep you got it... that is exactly what SWIM was saying...

you can also use vine or rue or passion flower concentrations but you are going to run into other alks and harmalas such as Harmaline. SWIM prefers JUST celio caapi leaf because it lacks harmaline.

Ok one more question from what I gather there are type A and type B MAOI compounds. Can anyone tell me the diffrence as far as the experience and what if they were mixed? And yes I am up to something devious again if you havent figured it out already.

wiki says...
MAOIs act by inhibiting the activity of monoamine oxidase, thus preventing the breakdown of monoamine neurotransmitters and thereby increasing their availability. There are two isoforms of monoamine oxidase, MAO-A and MAO-B. MAO-A preferentially deaminates serotonin, melatonin, epinephrine and norepinephrine. MAO-B preferentially deaminates phenylethylamine and trace amines. Dopamine is equally deaminated by both types. Many formulations have forms of fluoride attached to assist in permeating the blood-brain barrier, which is suspected as a factor in pineal gland effects.

sorry I cant be of more help then that.

Aren't the caapi alkaloids in salt form; and if so then aren't they less smokable than freebase form.
IF this is the case, then what about taking freebase caapi alkaloids and infusing caapi leaf with them.

And if they are that strong, then what about 1 gram freebase caapi alkaloids to 10 grams of leaf.

Or 100mg to 1 gram leaf.

Then add the spice...

all one needs to do is make a ethanol extract of the caapi leaf or vine or any other plant with harmalas in it and add that in a 1;1 ratio and there you have it. salt... no salt... noodle no noodle... you do not need to do anything else at all. It works as is.... honestly all you need to do is just fill a pipe with spice and caapi leaf and vine shreds and you will get it.

So you are saying the Vine add-mixture is the Nucleus of Changa.

May I ask your absolute favorite of blends at present?