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Acacia confusa & Formosahuasca Options
 
mindbody
#1 Posted : 5/3/2010 9:14:20 AM

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SUMMARY

Acacia confusa is a tree native to South-East Asia and containing large amounts of psychoactive tryptamines in its root bark. Reports of human bioassays are very scarce, but there is a group in Taiwan conducting ayahuasca sessions using this plant. I have followed their steps brewing Acacia confusa-based ayahuasca (Formosahuasca), and also discovering to my surprise that the root bark is orally active by itself in larger doses, without any additional sources of MAOI.

Bioassays (more details below):

5tbsp ground acacia root bark brewed ayahuasca-style without any additives: an overwhelmingly strong short (around 30 minutes) trip reminiscent of descriptions of smoked DMT - EROWID REPORT.

3tbsp ground acacia root bark infusion without any additives: soft psychedelic trance with rich mental imagery.

1.5tbsp ground acacia root bark & 1/2tbsp Syrian rue seeds infusion: a full-blown and rather overwhelming ayahuasca trip - EROWID REPORT.

<1tbsp ground acacia root bark & <1/2tbsp Syrian rue seeds infusion: a softer ayahuasca trip, with a more intense episode later on triggered by eating a light meal.


========================

Notes on obtaining the plant material:

1) The tree appears to be very common in Taiwan (its local name is 相思樹, which amusingly translates as `thinking-of-each-other tree'Pleased.

2) The root bark (相思樹根皮) seems to have some very limited use in traditional medicine, externally and perhaps internally for liver disease (the vendors did not seem confident about that).

3) The bark does not seem to be carried by Chinese medicine stores (中藥店), but it is carried by "herbal medicine stores" (草藥店 or 青草店), though not every store would have it, since the demand is low.

4) There is a huge conglomeration of these herbal shops next to Longshan temple (龍山寺) in Taipei. I didn't have a difficulty buying the bark there, but I had to order 1 day in advance, and they gave me raw root (at 150 Taiwan dollars, roughly $5, for 600g). The bark can be easily separated from the fresh root.



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ARCHIVE


03.05.2010: Acacia confusa root bark orally active without MAOI:

Just posting a very quick note on my bioassay of this Taiwanese acacia.

There are reports of DMT content in the root bark comparable or higher than Mimosa, and I've stumbled on this online description of using it in ayahuasca. So, on my recent trip to Taiwan, I obtained a large sample of the root bark. I must mention before describing my trial that I've never succeeded attaining full psychedelia with mimosa-caapi ayahuasca (made from ingredients purchased in Europe), so what I am about to describe is my first full-scale DMT(-like) experience.

Anyway, because the plant has not been researched much, I wanted to test my material without MAOI first to watch for any non-DMT-related adverse effects, without any expectations for psychoactivity. So I brewed a handful of my root bark chips (ground to around 5tbsp of fibrous powder) ayahuasca-style without any additives.

I first consumed about 1/3 of the brew on an empty stomach this morning. There was some nausea, so I lied down. In about an hour, I noticed to my surprise that colors brightened, everything started to look cuter, mild euphoria emerged and the nausea was gone: a typical low-dose tryptamine signature. So, because it felt pretty comfortable, I decided to take the risk and drink the rest of the brew. About 20 minutes later, it hit me like a wall, and it was pretty horrifying (with synesthesia going beyond what words can describe, visions, perceptual distortions of all sorts, thoughts that I have killed myself, limb tremor and impaired motor control). However, the whole thing lasted about 40 minutes and then stopped quite abruptly (and I am actually feeling perfectly well now). This was my first DMT experience (which I believe it has been, because the duration and intensity do match the DMT profile), and it was certainly far less kind to me than psilocybin. In any case, with due care, the plant can probably be used to people's benefit, and it is certainly active orally without additives (at least for my body chemistry; related Mimosa hostilis is also reported to be orally active).

I intend to write a more detailed report for erowid later. And I'll probably do some more experiments, though dosing more conservatively (and I am somewhat scared now of combining it with rue...).

Any comments/advice from ayahuasca shamans and other competent individuals are appreciated! Rolling eyes

_________________________________________


11.05.2010: Direct oral activity of the root bark confirmed with a smaller dose.

_________________________________________


16.05.2010: An acacia-based ayahuasca trial completed. (I call it FORMOSAHUASCA, after Formosa acacia, one of the names for the tree). Has been a deep experience, but extremely horrifying during the prolonged entry stage.

The brew:

1) around 1/2 tbsp whole Syrian rue seeds, ground into powder and steeped in 3 washes of boiling water (no cooking, no evaporation);

2) around 3 tbsp ground Acacia confusa root bark, also steeped in 3 washes of boiling water (no cooking, no evaporation); ONLY around 1/2 of the acacia brew was consumed (around 1.5 tbsp of the plant material), resulting in an extremely strong experience.

The rue was consumed first, followed 30 minutes later by around 1/3 of the acacia brew, followed 30 more minutes later by a few more gulps of the acacia brew (overall, around 1/2 of the prepared acacia brew was used).

What ensued was a prolonged horrifying entry phase, which felt like dying many times over, not being sure anymore what being alive, sane or human means, or when this experience started, or when it is going to end. After a lot of suffering, and passing through an exquisitely sensuous erotic episode, this cleared into an extremely blissful state of peace and harmony, which gradually descended into the usual consciousness at around 3.5 hour time mark from the first acacia brew ingestion.

A deep experience I would say, but certainly not one I would repeat often. And all of this with only around 1.5 tbsp of the acacia root bark powder. No idea whether my batch of acacia is unusually potent, or I am unusually sensitive. Also, it's quite harsh on me. As I said, I've never really had a difficult experience with psilocybin, mescaline or LSA (all from natural sources), but these acacia voyages bring a lot of horror, among other things. Please stay safe!

_________________________________________


19.05.2010: Some comments I've received from exactlydivyn, a leader of this group conducting ayahuasca sessions in Taiwan using Acacia confusa:
Quote:
I've done well over 100 sessions with myself and others with this [Acacia confusa and Syrian rue] brew. I introduced it to Taiwan after my friend telling me about it while I was living on Orchid Island. We found a tree, scraped off some of the root bark, boiled it for a couple of hours with some Syrian Rue and a few kiwis. That's how it began. The second time I took it, I was told to move to Tainan on the west coast of Taiwan and start using it as therapy to help people change their lives.

Here are the questions you asked me:

> How many people have you administered it to?
> Has anyone experienced adverse physical or psychological effects?

I've administered it to about 70 to 80 people. Most do it once or twice. Some seem to have the calling, destiny or something, as I did. Really catch onto it. Some are very afraid of it. I'm still afraid of it after 30~40 sessions, but the benefit, the change and growth that occurs with continuous use pushes me beyond my fear. I've had 1 person that I would consider adverse psychological effect at the time, although long term effect seems to be very beneficial. Absolutely NO physical adverse effect, short term or long term (although I did experience hypertensive crisis and had to be rushed to the hospital. I took 15 LSA seeds at night after doing aya in the morning. Didn't know it was on the restricted MAOI list).

> R. seemed to imply that he was using stem bark and not root bark,
> though he wasn't sure. Could you comment on that?

I've taken rootbark from live trees, and the bark from the herb shops, which I used most of the time. I've asked the shop if it was rootbark and she said it was, although sometimes it looks as if it is treebark. I'll ask again next time I buy. I've had no experience with death on the live bark (only three experiences though), but I've had much deeper experiences with the herb shop bark (done it lots more?? Don't know yet).


_________________________________________


23.05.2010: I've just stumbled upon the art of Dennis Konstantin Gerigk, and I am stunned by the degree of similarity it bears to my recent experiences with Acacia confusa (most notably, in the rainbow-ey body image, somewhat reptilian body transformations and colorful networks extending out of the body and connecting to the surrounding objects). Note that I've never seen these paintings before (or anything too similar in style), though I am very fond of psychedelic art. Here is a relevant sampler from the portfolio of this wonderful visionary artist:







_________________________________________


05.06.2010: One more bioassay: this time less than 1tbsp of ground Acacia confusa root bark and less than 1/2tbsp of Syrian rue seeds. The simplest preparation possible: the rue seeds ground and combined with the bark, steeped in 3 washes of boiling water, filtered, the residual plant material discarded. The liquid slowly consumed over the course of an hour, resulting in a distinctive two-part trip.

For the first 1.5 hours, a relatively soft trance with all the senses heightened, in particular, strong inner visualizations of muscular postures, combined with spontaneous investigative body movements (trying to feel my body better). Very refreshing.

Then I felt pretty much back to baseline and somewhat hungry. So I ate a bowl of fava bean soup. This resulted in a sharp surge of intoxication, and for the subsequent half-hour, I was propelled into the psychedelic realm familiar from my previous higher-dose acacia trips. This time, it was much more under control, since the dose was smaller and I was more familiar with the effects. In particular, I could maintain my identity throughout and could ground myself firmly for a few seconds every now and then, before returning to the visionary realm. Still, some aspects of the acacia-induced trance are quite overwhelming, even in smaller doses: there was a feeling of being controlled, or connected to something larger than "myself", a sense of myriads of tentacles probing my shoulders, etc. Bright hyper-kinetic "high-tech" colorful geometric visions (equalizer bands and the likes). There was a feeling of strong alertness after returning to the ordinary consciousness. I then took a walk in a park, cooling off.

There have been anecdotal reports that a light meal in the course of ayahuasca trips can provoke a surge in trip intensity. My experience seems to conform with this observation.

_________________________________________


28.09.2010: Acacia confusa seeds available to share. PM me if interested.

_________________________________________

 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
BananaForeskin
#2 Posted : 5/3/2010 10:14:42 AM

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Nice bioassay! I'm quite intrigued by the other alkaloids in the plant now, as I brought back some root bark from Hawaii and SWIM did an A/B on it. He didn't get much out of it, but in retrospect he also didn't have the root ground very finely whatsoever. About 150mg of crystals from 100g of root bark. SWIM turned it all into changa, which is in SWIMs freezer and has yet to be tested.

If you do any more with it, please post, as it was such a common plant in Hawaii that it has huge potential for use.
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mindbody
#3 Posted : 5/3/2010 10:42:29 AM

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I intend to experiment further, but carefully, because it seemed quite harsh on me (and I usually accommodate psychedelic experiences extremely well: with psilocybin, mescalin, LSA, etc).

In Hawaii? You mean the tree is naturalized in Hawaii? It seems to be native to Taiwan...
 
Dagger
#4 Posted : 5/3/2010 12:11:20 PM
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psychoactiveherbs sells Acacia confusa root bark.
'Your mind is like this water my friend. When it is agitated, it becomes difficult to see. But if you allow it to settle, the answer becomes clear' - Master Oogway - Kung Fu Panda
 
mindbody
#5 Posted : 5/3/2010 12:34:47 PM

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Dagger wrote:
psychoactiveherbs sells Acacia confusa root bark.

Yes, that's where I first saw a mention of this plant, before doing the rest of my research. (I presume their price is much higher than when buying it from herbal shops in Taiwan, though...)
 
Ginkgo
#6 Posted : 5/3/2010 3:58:31 PM

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Great, thanks a lot for this bioassay! All I can find about this bark is that it has both DMT and NMT (inactive) in about equal ratios, around 1-1.5%. It obviously contains b-carbolines as well, but my guess is that they have some unwanted effects, which may be the reason for the rough ride you experienced.

I find it extremely interesting that this tree's name translates to "thinking tree". Would it be possible to research why the tree was named as it was? This may point in the direction of an Asian Ayahuasca-like drink.

I will keep the thread in this category, as you will not be able to answer to it if I move it out of the nursery. Keep up the great work, and you will be out of the nursery in no time. Pleased
 
mindbody
#7 Posted : 5/3/2010 4:33:45 PM

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Evening Glory wrote:
Great, thanks a lot for this bioassay! All I can find about this bark is that it has both DMT and NMT (inactive) in about equal ratios, around 1-1.5%. It obviously contains b-carbolines as well, but my guess is that they have some unwanted effects, which may be the reason for the rough ride you experienced.

I think the situation is similar to Mimosa root bark (and mimosas are closely related to acacias). There are reports of oral psychoactivity of mimosa root bark without MAOI, and the subjective effects are identical to DMT (though the chemical mechanism is not known).

I cannot personally testify for sure whether the effects were due to DMT, since I have not previously succeeded with (more traditional) ayahuasca preparations. However, I am well familiar with psilocybin, and the effects I experienced with the acacia were similar, but considerably more harsh, which does match what's said about DMT. The short duration of the experience is also a signature of DMT (or a related tryptamine, perhaps)...

About the "rough ride", I think a part of it was that I was experimenting with a new, little researched plant, and it was only natural that the trip was colored with anxiety. Also, the dose was high (the peak phase was impossible to control). I hope to achieve more positive results with lower doses.

Evening Glory wrote:
I find it extremely interesting that this tree's name translates to "thinking tree". Would it be possible to research why the tree was named as it was? This may point in the direction of an Asian Ayahuasca-like drink.

I haven't found any indications that the psychoactive properties of the bark are known to Chinese herbalists. It would be good to research into the etymology of the name, but I have no clue at the moment. Another question is whether any shamanic traditions existed among the aboriginal population of Taiwan (which is not Chinese, but Austronesian, similar to Malays and Filipinos)...
 
mindbody
#8 Posted : 5/4/2010 2:23:09 AM

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Evening Glory wrote:
I find it extremely interesting that this tree's name translates to "thinking tree". Would it be possible to research why the tree was named as it was?

OK, with a little more research (Chinese wikipedia), it looks like there are actually many names for the tree. One of the names (香絲樹) is pronounced exactly the same as `thinking tree', but uses different characters, which mean `fragrant thread tree'. So, the most likely explanation is that it is a transcription of a non-Chinese word (perhaps a Taiwanese aboriginal word) into Chinese, and one should not attach too much importance to the meaning of the characters (it still remains a curious name for a tree with psychoactive root bark; hsiang-si actually means that 2 people think about each other, I believe, as lovers would).
 
Ginkgo
#9 Posted : 5/4/2010 2:28:07 AM

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Great, thank you so much! I find this whole thing very interesting, keep up the good work. With your ability to cross the language barrier between English and some of the Asian languages, I see you as a great addition to the Nexus. I have therefore given you full membership, I am looking forward to read your posts! Smile

I hope you will have a great stay here,
Evening Glory
 
mindbody
#10 Posted : 5/4/2010 3:34:02 AM

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Evening Glory wrote:
I have therefore given you full membership, I am looking forward to read your posts! Smile

Thank you very much! Very happy
Perhaps you could also move the thread to a more specific sub-forum (`DMT experiences' or `Ayahuasca'Pleased. I am still hoping that experienced users would provide some input (for example, on oral activity of mimosa hostilis taken alone, which would be the closest analog of my experience, or on comparisons between mimosa taken alone and in combination with MAOI). This can help me to plan my future experimentation with the acacia root bark and make it more smooth and safe.
 
Ginkgo
#11 Posted : 5/4/2010 3:41:29 AM

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Consider it done. Smile
 
mindbody
#12 Posted : 5/4/2010 3:43:54 AM

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Evening Glory wrote:
Consider it done. Smile

Thank you very much!
 
polytrip
#13 Posted : 5/4/2010 9:51:52 PM
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How related are acacia and mimosa? i believe they are relatives in some way.

Anyway, mimosa is only orally active (without MAOI) if used in cold water infusions. High temperatures completely diminish it's oral activity as well as storing it over a too long period of time.

So the oral activity of acacia could be based on a simmilar principle as that of mimosa, but it could also be that the plant is very high in beta-carbolines or simmilar MAOI's.

In the 'DMT-containing plants' section, many plants are mentioned. But the reason why i, and i think many others as well, are hesitant to investigate other than the traditional plants is because some plants contain toxins as well, or other substances that could make it less suitable for oral use.
One of the downsides of mimosa is that it contains many tannins wich is responsible for it's terrible taste and purgative effects on some people. This could also be one of the reasons why acacia was less pleasant to you than previously used psychedelic's.
It sounds like it's a pretty potent source of DMT when a first time user has these effects with it without MAOI's anyway.
 
BananaForeskin
#14 Posted : 5/4/2010 10:55:30 PM

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I'm not a biologist, so I don't know the more technical meaning of "naturalized" in this case. In laymen's terms, I'd say HELL YEAH, it's all over the place. I saw mention that the best bark is from older trees, and this could explain the low yield I got as I was working with a fairly young pair of trees, and it was my first extraction.
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mindbody
#15 Posted : 5/5/2010 4:46:32 AM

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polytrip wrote:
How related are acacia and mimosa? i believe they are relatives in some way.

They are in the same subfamily (Mimosoideae) of the same family (Fabaceae, the bean family). The genera Mimosa and Acacia are technically different, but considered pretty close. That's what botanists tell us, at least.

polytrip wrote:
Anyway, mimosa is only orally active (without MAOI) if used in cold water infusions. High temperatures completely diminish it's oral activity as well as storing it over a too long period of time.

Are you speaking from personal experience? Can you also comment on how oral mimosa compares to ayahuasca and smoked DMT (my experience was tremendously intense and very short, that's one more thing that's difficult to understand).

polytrip wrote:
In the 'DMT-containing plants' section, many plants are mentioned. But the reason why i, and i think many others as well, are hesitant to investigate other than the traditional plants is because some plants contain toxins as well, or other substances that could make it less suitable for oral use.

I am an extremely cautios person, as a matter of fact. One reason I decided to try this plant is that it is used traditionally in Taiwanese medicine (though internal use seems quite limited). There are research papers on applying the bark extract as a remedy against liver toxicity of CCl4 in rats, among other things. So it probably cannot be too bad (of course, one cannot be completely sure).

polytrip wrote:
One of the downsides of mimosa is that it contains many tannins wich is responsible for it's terrible taste and purgative effects on some people.

The taste and smell of acacia is very similar to mimosa. The brew has a lightly orange hue, instead of the purplish hue of mimosa brew. It is also a little thinner and does not precipitate as much sludge at the bottom. Astringency is high.

polytrip wrote:
This could also be one of the reasons why acacia was less pleasant to you than previously used psychedelic's.

My difficulty was not related to the body load. I have not noticed any especially high body load (nothing to speak of, compared to Hawaiian baby woodrose seeds, for example).

The difficulty was psychological, because the experience was far more intense than any other trip I've had, and completely impossible to control in the peak phase. (I feel comfortable on large doses of the mushrooms, or mescaline, since I can always restore the normal state of consciousness for a few seconds at will, check that everything is OK with my body and my surroundings, and then go back to wherever I came from. This was not possible on this acacia trip.)

BananaForeskin wrote:
I'm not a biologist, so I don't know the more technical meaning of "naturalized" in this case. In laymen's terms, I'd say HELL YEAH, it's all over the place.

Yes, from what's written online, it seems to have been introduced to Hawaii from Asia about 100 years ago (probably for landscape planning).

BananaForeskin wrote:
I saw mention that the best bark is from older trees, and this could explain the low yield I got as I was working with a fairly young pair of trees, and it was my first extraction.

Root bark is the part with a large reported alkaloid contents, and that's what I've used. The people who brewed ayahuasca with this acacia and posted a report online seem to have used ordinary bark.
 
mindbody
#16 Posted : 5/5/2010 7:16:09 AM

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Buchanan MS, Carroll AR, Pass D, Quinn RJ. NMR spectral assignments of a new chlorotryptamine alkaloid and its analogues from Acacia confusa, Magn Reson Chem. 2007 Apr; 45(4):359-61
online text: http://www3.interscience...text/114123856/PDFSTART
Quote:
A new chlorotryptamine alkaloid, N-chloromethyl-N,N-dimethyltryptamine, was isolated from a methanol extract of the Chinese shrub Acacia confusa Merr., together with its known hallucinogenic analogues, N-methyltryptamine, N,N-dimethyltryptamine and N,N-dimethyltryptamine-N-oxide. The new compound was an artefact of the isolation conditions. The complete (1)H and (13)C NMR assignments for these compounds were carried out using (1)H, (13)C, DEPT, gCOSY, gHSQC and gHMBC NMR experiments.
 
polytrip
#17 Posted : 5/5/2010 3:47:28 PM
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Yes i have experience with mimosa cold water infusions. Without MAOI you'd have to take huge amounts for it to do anything but i experimented a bit with that and it gives mild effects starting from about 30 grams of powdered MHRB. With MAOI's a cold water extract of 30 grams will give a medium ayahuasca trip but it doesn't work all the time. Taking more than 30 grams becomes increasingly unpleasant because of the tannins. The reason a cold water extract is preferable over boiling it is because that normally gives less tannins and a less disgusting taste, but only to a certain extent. If you use real large amounts it will taste disgusting anyway.

In short i can say that boiled mimosa brews make me puke often and that i never had to puke with mimosa CWE's, but that ingestion of CWE brews that contain more than 30 grams of mimosa is nevertheless an unpleasant procedure.

It sounds to me this acacia stuff is more powerfull than mimosa when even without MAOI's it get's that powerfull. Mimosa CWE's without MAOI's never get that strong. Mimosa only gives very mild effects that way. It lasts a little longer though. About 3 hours.
 
mindbody
#18 Posted : 5/11/2010 1:46:08 PM

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OK, I've repeated my experiment with a smaller dose, and this time it was rather mild (more of a contemplative psychedelic trance with rich mental imagery and complex sensations, but without visual disturbances, not really a `trip'Pleased. However, the effect was quite pronounced, so I stay firm in my conviction that the acacia root bark is orally active (and can produce extremely strong, though short, experience, if the dose is large enough).
 
Dorge
#19 Posted : 5/15/2010 9:28:15 PM

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this is sooooo wonderful to hear... SWIM has been trying to get people in hawaii to send it to him for ever... they just dont know what they got!
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Dorge
#20 Posted : 5/16/2010 1:00:30 AM

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could one not just do a cold ethanol extract of this... then evap on a reptile pad and take in a pill form?
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