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Mitigating Purging and Vomiting Options
 
Fridge
#21 Posted : 11/2/2022 10:05:30 AM

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Hey Voidmatrix, I followed this thread and always wanted to respond, but something always kept me from doing so.

I am glad that you seem to have made some progress. I myself have a sensitive gut, so I can relate in some ways, even though with DMT/changa it isn't a problem, it's when I have mushrooms.

What I have noticed is that in my case there seems to be a correlation between intensity of the experience and stomach discomfort, which makes me also believe that it has got something to do with the receptors in the gut area. Luckily I always get away with only nausea and no vomiting. So far I have only mitigated it with a puff of cannabis, which really calms it down.

Anyway, I am with you on the quest against nausea Smile. Did you try the lemon balm already? If yes, did it help?
I got myself dried leaves and just made my first tea. Not in connection with psychedelics though, I was just curious how it tastes. I got to say it tastes very pleasant. This is going to be an ingredient of my mushroom tea from now on.
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Voidmatrix
#22 Posted : 11/2/2022 12:18:45 PM

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Fridge wrote:
Hey Voidmatrix, I followed this thread and always wanted to respond, but something always kept me from doing so.

I am glad that you seem to have made some progress. I myself have a sensitive gut, so I can relate in some ways, even though with DMT/changa it isn't a problem, it's when I have mushrooms.

What I have noticed is that in my case there seems to be a correlation between intensity of the experience and stomach discomfort, which makes me also believe that it has got something to do with the receptors in the gut area. Luckily I always get away with only nausea and no vomiting. So far I have only mitigated it with a puff of cannabis, which really calms it down.

Anyway, I am with you on the quest against nausea Smile. Did you try the lemon balm already? If yes, did it help?
I got myself dried leaves and just made my first tea. Not in connection with psychedelics though, I was just curious how it tastes. I got to say it tastes very pleasant. This is going to be an ingredient of my mushroom tea from now on.


I've found the same to be true in my case, in that the more intense the experience the more stomach discomfort that occurs. Usually, if I just let it out I feel better, but I'm not trying to deal with that each time.

I've found lemon balm to be very nice with rue, and I have noticed that there does seem to be less nausea and stomach discomfort with rue alone (though once acclimated it's not as much of a concern) and I don't think I have ever purged in the instances where I've chosen to take a journey after drinking rue with lemon balm.

I think that's a great idea to add to mushroom tea and think I'll try the same. Hopefully I'll have some time this upcoming weekend Smile

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What if the "truth" is: the "truth" is indescernible/unknowable/nonexistent? Then the closest we get is through being true to and with ourselves.


Know thyself, nothing in excess, certainty brings insanity- Delphic Maxims

DMT always has something new to show you Twisted Evil

Question everything... including questioning everything... There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
All posts and supposed experiences are from an imaginary interdimensional being. This being has the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. Posts should be taken with a grain of salt. 👽
 
the_Architect
#23 Posted : 11/3/2022 9:02:49 AM

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Have you tried THH only? it might have a different/interesting effect.

Have you conseidered the metaphysical aspect of this substances? some people think it´s al just science/pharmacological...
You probably know that in a ayahuasca take you´ll get some sort of cleansing.
Some people believe we have several overlapping bodies (mental, astral, etherical, emotional, etc) and when a cleansing of those subtle bodies occurs, there´s has to be some physical manifestation or action in your physical bodies (pooping, throwing up, crying, yawning, salivating, trembling, spasm, etc), something has to go out of the system...

Also, I´ve seen different effects on different people... some can handle taking a vast amount of shrooms and still be active and do normal life... for me... sometimes it makes me breath in another way (teaching me how to breath) or get this abdominal crumps or spasm (kundalini?).

Furthermore, I´ve come to experience some of this symptoms previous to taking any substance, during a ceremony, in the preliminaries when you are concentrated on setting your intention... so, that kind of tells me there´s more going on than just "pharmacological effects of substances taken"...

My advice, each one is different, the medicine gives you what you need, don´t try to cheat your body with science or try to do what other people do.
"...after five seconds I was no longer a marxist, no longer a materialist, no longer a rationalist.
It killed those things, it cauterized them..."

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Voidmatrix
#24 Posted : 11/3/2022 11:05:00 AM

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the_Architect wrote:
Have you tried THH only? it might have a different/interesting effect.

Have you conseidered the metaphysical aspect of this substances? some people think it´s al just science/pharmacological...
You probably know that in a ayahuasca take you´ll get some sort of cleansing.
Some people believe we have several overlapping bodies (mental, astral, etherical, emotional, etc) and when a cleansing of those subtle bodies occurs, there´s has to be some physical manifestation or action in your physical bodies (pooping, throwing up, crying, yawning, salivating, trembling, spasm, etc), something has to go out of the system...

Also, I´ve seen different effects on different people... some can handle taking a vast amount of shrooms and still be active and do normal life... for me... sometimes it makes me breath in another way (teaching me how to breath) or get this abdominal crumps or spasm (kundalini?).

Furthermore, I´ve come to experience some of this symptoms previous to taking any substance, during a ceremony, in the preliminaries when you are concentrated on setting your intention... so, that kind of tells me there´s more going on than just "pharmacological effects of substances taken"...

My advice, each one is different, the medicine gives you what you need, don´t try to cheat your body with science or try to do what other people do.


Thank you.

Yes I have tried THH alone orally and it too elicits a nausea response.

I have consider other aspects, such as metaphysical, and which is why it makes sense to vomit/purge sometimes (especially if my intent in a given context is healing), but I don't think it should happen so often that it is of concern every time I smoalk changa, for example.

Am also aware of and familiar with the nature of purging and discharging in other ways also. Kind of necessary, not only for myself, but also for my guidework practice.

One of my differences is I have a sensitive gut.

Not sure I'm cheating my body by wanting to be more fully immersed in my experiences rather thag immersed in vomiting during the experience.

One love
What if the "truth" is: the "truth" is indescernible/unknowable/nonexistent? Then the closest we get is through being true to and with ourselves.


Know thyself, nothing in excess, certainty brings insanity- Delphic Maxims

DMT always has something new to show you Twisted Evil

Question everything... including questioning everything... There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
All posts and supposed experiences are from an imaginary interdimensional being. This being has the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. Posts should be taken with a grain of salt. 👽
 
downwardsfromzero
#25 Posted : 11/3/2022 5:04:33 PM

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You know what, quite conversely I've sometimes wished that vomiting would come to me more easily. More usually my response is increased urinary output and occasionally faecal purging. Maybe it's just that the downwards thing comes to me more naturally...

I had a HBWR experience that really showed the value of vomiting but I'd rather forgo forcing myself to drink salt water as I did back then.

Another aspect that springs to mind is alchemical transformation but that may be straying outside the boundaries of this subforum, so I'll leave it at that.




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Voidmatrix
#26 Posted : 11/3/2022 5:47:40 PM

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DF0 wrote:
Maybe it's just that the downwards thing comes to me more naturally...


Yeah, downwards from the 0 Laughing

DF0 wrote:
Another aspect that springs to mind is alchemical transformation but that may be straying outside the boundaries of this subforum, so I'll leave it at that.


Perhaps calcination or dissolution?

One love
What if the "truth" is: the "truth" is indescernible/unknowable/nonexistent? Then the closest we get is through being true to and with ourselves.


Know thyself, nothing in excess, certainty brings insanity- Delphic Maxims

DMT always has something new to show you Twisted Evil

Question everything... including questioning everything... There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
All posts and supposed experiences are from an imaginary interdimensional being. This being has the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. Posts should be taken with a grain of salt. 👽
 
Fridge
#27 Posted : 11/7/2022 5:27:49 AM

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Just quickly popping in to let you know that the lemon balm tea seemed to work. I didn't experience any nausea at all, though I still felt some discomfort in my gut area, but that I think is just part of the mushroom experience.

Since this was the first time trying lemon balm in combination with mushrooms, it might be a little early to draw conclusions though.
There's still lot's of experimentation to be done Wink .
...no need to worry...
 
Voidmatrix
#28 Posted : 11/8/2022 8:58:52 PM

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Fridge wrote:
Just quickly popping in to let you know that the lemon balm tea seemed to work. I didn't experience any nausea at all, though I still felt some discomfort in my gut area, but that I think is just part of the mushroom experience.

Since this was the first time trying lemon balm in combination with mushrooms, it might be a little early to draw conclusions though.
There's still lot's of experimentation to be done Wink .


Thank you for the update and feedback. I'm hoping to give it a try this Friday Smile

One love
What if the "truth" is: the "truth" is indescernible/unknowable/nonexistent? Then the closest we get is through being true to and with ourselves.


Know thyself, nothing in excess, certainty brings insanity- Delphic Maxims

DMT always has something new to show you Twisted Evil

Question everything... including questioning everything... There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
All posts and supposed experiences are from an imaginary interdimensional being. This being has the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. Posts should be taken with a grain of salt. 👽
 
aethereon
#29 Posted : 11/9/2022 10:33:07 PM

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I wonder if ginger and lemon balm together could work… lemon balm is great though for sure. My gut isn’t so sensitive but during times of extended cannabinoid intake, I’ve gotten to feel a bit nauseous. Some people get to the point where they start throwing up from it repeatedly/uncontrollably (cannabis) although some say it comes down in a large part to their ROA I.E smoking. Also others claim its a result of the ‘commercialization’ of cannabis but even before unless u grew yourself you never know what goes in the plant. But puking or not, i notice an increase in runny nose as well as perspiration after getting back into the weeds :s hope am not hijacking the post not sure how pertinent my observations are to the discussion haha but I thought I’d pop in and share nonetheless. Mind you of course I tend to get pretty ‘into it’ Shocked Oh and mushrooms too are apparently super susceptible to "pulling" stuff from the environment they are grown in so also important to vet your source or just diy really… something i gotta get into again Laughing
 
Voidmatrix
#30 Posted : 11/11/2022 2:46:50 AM

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aetheron wrote:
I wonder if ginger and lemon balm together could work…


Interesting you said this since I'm considering adding some ginger syrup to my lemon balm tea during an either light mushrooms or pharma journey this weekendSmile

Checking in, I smoalked some changa today with very little stomach discomfort and nausea, while there was definitely some gut sensation.

I have been spending time smoalking small amounts of DMT and harmalas separately to increase and re-establish my acclimation and conditioning with both, as suggested by ShamensStamens. Seems to be working so far, but I still plan on exploring some of the other options that I've had in mind and that have been mentioned here.

One love
What if the "truth" is: the "truth" is indescernible/unknowable/nonexistent? Then the closest we get is through being true to and with ourselves.


Know thyself, nothing in excess, certainty brings insanity- Delphic Maxims

DMT always has something new to show you Twisted Evil

Question everything... including questioning everything... There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
All posts and supposed experiences are from an imaginary interdimensional being. This being has the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. Posts should be taken with a grain of salt. 👽
 
dragonrider
#31 Posted : 11/11/2022 1:25:05 PM

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Lemonbalm is actually very easy to grow btw. It's almost like mint in that way. Once you get it growing it more or less propagates itself.

If you like it, i would just get some seeds and grow some myself.

It does well in almost in any climate except arctic or realy tropical conditions and in almost any type of soil.

And, bonus....it repels insects.
 
downwardsfromzero
#32 Posted : 11/13/2022 7:15:02 PM

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dragonrider wrote:
Lemonbalm is actually very easy to grow btw. It's almost like mint in that way. Once you get it growing it more or less propagates itself.

If you like it, i would just get some seeds and grow some myself.

It does well in almost in any climate except arctic or realy tropical conditions and in almost any type of soil.

And, bonus....it repels insects.

Lemon balm grows almost too well in a temperate climate! I know of more than several gardens where a single plant has spread itself to every corner and a certain effort of vigilance is required to keep spaces free for other plants. An alternative is to plant only 'invasive' species and amuse yourself by watching the slow-motion plant wars as they all vie for room.

Lemon balm also seeds profusely so planting it in pots is not much of a solution. Lemon balm tincture is commercially available in some places (speaking of solutions Very happy ) but my general insensitivity to nausea means I can't really comment on its efficacy.




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
Voidmatrix
#33 Posted : 11/17/2022 1:55:21 PM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
dragonrider wrote:
Lemonbalm is actually very easy to grow btw. It's almost like mint in that way. Once you get it growing it more or less propagates itself.

If you like it, i would just get some seeds and grow some myself.

It does well in almost in any climate except arctic or realy tropical conditions and in almost any type of soil.

And, bonus....it repels insects.

Lemon balm grows almost too well in a temperate climate! I know of more than several gardens where a single plant has spread itself to every corner and a certain effort of vigilance is required to keep spaces free for other plants. An alternative is to plant only 'invasive' species and amuse yourself by watching the slow-motion plant wars as they all vie for room.

Lemon balm also seeds profusely so planting it in pots is not much of a solution. Lemon balm tincture is commercially available in some places (speaking of solutions Very happy ) but my general insensitivity to nausea means I can't really comment on its efficacy.


Isn't lemon balm in the mint family?

I think I'm going to put it on my list of plants to grow. Sounds like it could be a bit of fun.

One love
What if the "truth" is: the "truth" is indescernible/unknowable/nonexistent? Then the closest we get is through being true to and with ourselves.


Know thyself, nothing in excess, certainty brings insanity- Delphic Maxims

DMT always has something new to show you Twisted Evil

Question everything... including questioning everything... There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
All posts and supposed experiences are from an imaginary interdimensional being. This being has the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. Posts should be taken with a grain of salt. 👽
 
dragonrider
#34 Posted : 11/17/2022 2:23:10 PM

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Voidmatrix wrote:
downwardsfromzero wrote:
dragonrider wrote:
Lemonbalm is actually very easy to grow btw. It's almost like mint in that way. Once you get it growing it more or less propagates itself.

If you like it, i would just get some seeds and grow some myself.

It does well in almost in any climate except arctic or realy tropical conditions and in almost any type of soil.

And, bonus....it repels insects.

Lemon balm grows almost too well in a temperate climate! I know of more than several gardens where a single plant has spread itself to every corner and a certain effort of vigilance is required to keep spaces free for other plants. An alternative is to plant only 'invasive' species and amuse yourself by watching the slow-motion plant wars as they all vie for room.

Lemon balm also seeds profusely so planting it in pots is not much of a solution. Lemon balm tincture is commercially available in some places (speaking of solutions Very happy ) but my general insensitivity to nausea means I can't really comment on its efficacy.


Isn't lemon balm in the mint family?

I think I'm going to put it on my list of plants to grow. Sounds like it could be a bit of fun.

One love

Well, it does look a lot like mint. But i don't believe they're realy closely related.

Plants that look like mint, is probably the botanical variation of the LBM (little brown mushroom) phenomenon that some mycologists are dealing with when hunting for psycho active mushrooms. They're everywhere.

I've used it as a sleep-aid for a while, but it isn't realy a powerfull sesative that knocks you right out. The taste is closer to lemongrass than to lemon itself, so it's very tolerable.
 
RoundAbout
#35 Posted : 11/17/2022 3:47:35 PM

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dragonrider wrote:
Well, it does look a lot like mint. But i don't believe they're realy closely related.

Plants that look like mint, is probably the botanical variation of the LBM (little brown mushroom) phenomenon that some mycologists are dealing with when hunting for psycho active mushrooms. They're everywhere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_balm
 
dragonrider
#36 Posted : 11/17/2022 8:35:49 PM

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RoundAbout wrote:
dragonrider wrote:
Well, it does look a lot like mint. But i don't believe they're realy closely related.

Plants that look like mint, is probably the botanical variation of the LBM (little brown mushroom) phenomenon that some mycologists are dealing with when hunting for psycho active mushrooms. They're everywhere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_balm

Yes, it is part of the mint family indeed. But it's an entirely different genus, so they are about as related as a housecat and a lion.
 
aethereon
#37 Posted : 12/3/2022 8:25:12 AM

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Voidmatrix wrote:
Interesting you said this since I'm considering adding some ginger syrup to my lemon balm tea during an either light mushrooms or pharma journey this weekendSmile

Checking in, I smoalked some changa today with very little stomach discomfort and nausea, while there was definitely some gut sensation.

I have been spending time smoalking small amounts of DMT and harmalas separately to increase and re-establish my acclimation and conditioning with both, as suggested by ShamensStamens. Seems to be working so far, but I still plan on exploring some of the other options that I've had in mind and that have been mentioned here.

One love


Hope that it continued in working out better!

Myself I think I tend to be fairly lucky when having a 'stronger' stomach.

Occasionally, I have felt a bit nauseous, although for me I feel like that comes from my own use of cannabis - or overuse I should say. I have no doubt in my mind that cannabis hypeperemesis is a thing. I've heard that people say cannabis hyperemesis syndrome happens mostly from people smoking it, as well nowadays with the 'commercialization' of a lot of the whole weed industry I've heard people also attribute the "CHS" thing to the 'industrially grown' weed and I could also see this being potentially a thing too. But I've known also that even vaping the stuff and vaping stuff I've grown myself, there is too much of a good thing. But for sure, I tended to take it to the extreme and felt like I got bit by it the next day - feeling like I'd been hit by a ton of bricks. Huge headache, nauseuous debilitation lasting well into the late evening... I think it is a very 'desiccating' plant especially when done often. But the extreme puking I am lucky to have not been affected by, but I think that once one has a tolerance for cannabis trying to get a solid dose administered via the lungs is going to be tough. Especially if the person was using edibles and then starts vaping or worse yet, smoking. I remember listening to the song 'it's sickening' by classified and he has a lyric where he says he'd wake up and puke but then wipe his face with the towel but then proceed to take a toke (paraphrasing but yeah) growing up I always thought that line was an exaggeration but it turns out it may not have been. I am going to be shortly lowering the trajectory of my weed arc once again because while starting up again I saw a lot of the things I loved but as always with the overuse basically abuse aka under or not appreciating the gift and doing it without intention and withing a short manner of time it's time to have a hard time remembering things again 'cause your head is always in those clouds.

There's also been times on mushrooms or something where I've felt the need to purge and even tried to 'help that along' but was unable to... and the nausea ended up passing of course but felt like I had something that 'wanted to come out' :S in a purging sense of course... and I missed out not being able to. As well in a broader purging sense, I noticed as well recently having gone back to cannabis vaping, my hyperhidrosis has gotten worse again, for anyone (prob most) not familiar it's excessive sweating, in my case it's mostly on my hands and feet and to a lesser degree my pits but yes, definitely having gotten back to a 'chronic lifestyle' with the cannabis the waterworks have come back on, it's quite annoying not to mention awkward as heck at times :S uncomfortable for sure... of course a sedentary lifestyle as well as copious intake of caffeine... in my case yerba mate but I have seen with other 'weed people' that they will be big on caffeine as well (usually coffee but could also be energy drinks which prob is the worst lol) and sort of use the stimulant to sort of 'counter medicate' or whatever the 'downer' effect of the weed... attempting to acheive some sort of a balance or what have you but as we can all imagine it's not a good sustainable strategy... it's almost like the alcoholic that also does cocaine in order to 'stay alert from the alcohol' and what have you but of course this combination is much more risky in an exponential way (and of course either activity to begin with are both potentially perilous paths) but yes, such is life I guess... everything in moderation, and to each their own Thumbs up

Anyways not likely that applies to you but just thought I'd share as well as well as check in too... hope that the ginger and lemon balms worked out Pleased Thanks for the infos on the lemon balm, I wasn't aware it was so 'dominant' and will now know to keep an eye out on that Neutral
 
Voidmatrix
#38 Posted : 12/3/2022 9:58:38 PM

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Thank you so much for sharing, aethereon. I appreciate it as I have been neglecting this thread (as well as some of my others). Have been in deep reflection and kind of keeping to myself lately...

Anyway, to catch up, this issue was bothering me the most with respect to DMT and changa. Having taken some of SS's advice, I deal with it a lot less as of late. However, I notice that if I take too much time off, especially from harmalas, the more that there is for me to manage once I get back into the space. I tend to take time a way whenever I get tattooed or my hair twisted because those sensations are intensified once in the space and don't always want to deal with it (it can be very intense, like feeling as though I'm getting the whole tattoo all over again).

However, with mushrooms, that's a whole different experience. Last Friday I had a very intense experience. It was more than expected and also a higher intensity than I've had in years. That said, during the first two hours of this experience I purged around 10 times... Perhaps I'll be able to finish the trip report and share today. We'll see how I feel. But nothing really helped (not even ginger or ginger ale) until I decided to try eating some Cooler Ranch Doritos because I needed something in my stomach (energy for the trip was dropping which tends to make the journey extensively more difficult to manage). It also eased when I decided to be a little more active a play some video games. Granted, I ate the mushrooms in the first place to play Horizon Forbidden West.

With respect to cannabis, I'm not sure how much of my experience with nausea is related to my cannabis use. I've used daily for years. There's a lot that it helps me with. Including nausea. Whenever I wake up in the morning and need to vomit, it's almost always as a result of a heavily felt sense of anxiety.

I had scaled back my cannabis use a few years ago, but with how I've been feeling lately, I've been smoking more again and am not sure how to feel about it. Despite my adherence to kindness and compassion, I feel and experience a great deal of anger deep down, and my job and the people I work with have been upsetting me a lot lately, so sometimes I take a few hits from a vape pen during the day to take the edge off (and yes I get high at work because I work with cannabis anyway Laughing )

From the little bit that I understand about cannabis hyperemesis syndrome, from the little bit that I've read, it concerns total amount of cannaboids that have been introduced to the system, so I'm not sure how much it matters if it's eaten or smoked that leads to said syndrome. I am very curious about the prevalence of this as well, because like you've mentioned, the industrialization of cannabis, including higher cannabanoid content, could potentially lead to higher incidence of cannabis hyperemesis syndrome in the overall population.

Don't know if I mentioned it before, but there was a milder mushroom trip that I'd had and tried using lemon balm to help with the nausea to no avail. In a future experience I'll add the ginger syrup and see if the two together produce any results for me.

One love
What if the "truth" is: the "truth" is indescernible/unknowable/nonexistent? Then the closest we get is through being true to and with ourselves.


Know thyself, nothing in excess, certainty brings insanity- Delphic Maxims

DMT always has something new to show you Twisted Evil

Question everything... including questioning everything... There's so much I could be wrong about and have no idea...
All posts and supposed experiences are from an imaginary interdimensional being. This being has the proclivity and compulsion for delving in depths it shouldn't. Posts should be taken with a grain of salt. 👽
 
Jees
#39 Posted : 12/4/2022 3:12:56 PM

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Haven't read posts here so far but I stumbled on Clavo Huasca recently, used as an ayahuasca admixture for stomach relief. It is very widely available. In a watery tea good against nausea and general tonus, if macerated with alcohol it's also an love-turbo, it seems Pleased

Anyove been using this plant to a working effect?
Thanks.
 
dragonrider
#40 Posted : 12/8/2022 7:48:33 PM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
You know what, quite conversely I've sometimes wished that vomiting would come to me more easily. More usually my response is increased urinary output

I'm so glad to hear i'm not the only one who has this. All psychedelics tend to do this to me.

Sometimes when i've taken shrooms or acid i'm just sitting on the toilet thinking:"i could have easily flooded the amazon twice by now and there's still no sign of it coming to an end anytime in the foreseeable future".

Maybe, instead of the pineal gland that everybody keeps talking about, the human bladder is actually a real portal to another dimension. And that by accessing this other dimension, you also allow all the water from that dimension to pass through as well.

Would explain a lot.
 
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