So the issue is, to function as we do, we need some kind of manner to transfer a payback value to people far away from us, and instantly. I mean, how else can we get our electronics to communicate like now, if it isnt for products coming from china, or energy sources coming from elsewhere, or food or whatever other material thing we use. A trade based system couldnt work at this global level of organization, you cant pay back directly all the people that are involved in creating our possessions and services we use. So what do we do if not with money? Can we invent a new way? Do we give up everything in modern life and go back to cave era? Is there some way to use money without the issues we know of? Will whatever way we invent be perverted by human greed?

Just spitballing here...but what about energy? Like a currency tied directly to power or something comparable..like energy credits (or ____ credits), where your "money" is inherently backed by something (in my example, say watts or kw/h of energy...but anything comparable could be substituted) rather than this fiat currency that used to be backed by precious elements. Haven't really given this any thought, just saw endless' post and this jumped to mind so I figured I'd throw it up here to get the brain juices flowin

Are we inevitably forcing ourselves back to the cave era because human greed will simply corrupt any new system we replace with the current? (rolls magic 8-ball) "Future is uncertain"

Humans, huh?

haha nice steely, i think we come up with concepts and new technologies that last and are beneficial for small periods of time (100 years?) and then the drawbacks start coming out and we stumble as a species (greed/obsessive self interest) through a drastic change of our foundation that was built before we were even in this experience yet

all in the change of evolution i suppose. pretty sure most of us as human beings are just not ready for a true position of power yet; its a sacrificial role, yet most of us with power want to attain and gain more through it. HA!

>> we definitely can't blame money itself for being 'the root of all evil' it goes deeper into us as beings and our fear/insecurity issues. However, its on such a huge global scale and we are only cells within it; what change can we possibly truly impact the world with then just ourselves?

The thing I serve to do is make those closest around me happy, so that they might do the same for others. That is some pretty easily instilled change smack dab in the middle of reality.

quoted.

Yea, I'm pretty sure the original quote was "the love of money is the root of all evil" but m,any people butcher the quote and lose a significant chunk of its meaning by doing so. Just some food for thought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cclQ3tlcqps

Things do go in cycles........

people should consider that someone at minimum wage in the us or canada would be considered rich to someone starving to death in africa. Whoever thinks someone with a million dollars is hoarding should look at themselves very carefully.... how many starving kids lives could you have saved with the money you bought an x box with?

Its so easy to point the finger....

^ .

My opinion:

If making money causes irresponsible depletion of natural resources in order that the person with said money has it, that's one thing. What one does with the temptation money offers is another, yet the real threat lies in money addicts who will use less than ethical means of rigging the system in order to extract wealth from hard working peoples retirement funds, or exploit indigenous peoples resources to the point where they are forced to work in sweat shops. Then if someone has by ruthless means or economical force bankrupt their competition, exempted themselves from the law, and gained control of the perception management aspect to their many atrocities one must wonder. On the converse side if your ability to delegate, negotiate, manage, advertize, restructure and expand a business results in a better product or service for all then isn't that the American dream? It's a slippy slope. Especially if you get tax exemption. I feel their is moral hazard when their is no accountability. So long as social and corporate justice has accountability (Yeah Right..) then I imagine it's fair however I believe in order for you to maintain such wealth you should still be required to invest your "genius" up until a certain age. As society we can't let these people let their investments give them a free ride based off interest (at the age of 25 say a millionaire retires) they are exploiting those who need loans if they are living off of interest, and their creative input into society would be squandered. Think of now of days. So many people I know in their 30's don't have what it takes to be an entrepreneur-ism anymore. Those that did have it are dieing off. Either that, or we should teach developmental psychology, capitalism, finance, entrepreneurial-ism, confidence, etc (self improvement classes) in school. & you can't leave out ethics & logic classes as well. It shouldn't be so 1% own 90% of the assets. It should at least be 10% like it was a decade ago or so. =)

Can't say I like any idea where some organisation comes and takes whatever it is I have managed to earn for myself / family, and "re-distributes" it - this is communism and perhaps one of the most evil human inventions. Captialism is paradise, when you compare it to communist standards of living (for the poorest) and the body counts of the politically exterminated. Nonetheless, the other point, about how rich monopolies can grow in wealth and power over generations, until they enslave the rest of us, is also true. Perhaps it pays to consider what money really is, which IMHO, $ represents a stored form of material world power, of varing importance to different people. Power can be used for good or evil, and as someone else pointed out, the much hated Bill Gates, has actually thrown a hell of a lot of his own money towards helping out the really poor and destitute people in other countries. Maybe the cure is oversight - or accountability. I have no problem with someone getting wealthy through hard honest work, and once rich, you have to spend or lend someone else the money - so either way, the $ are still in circulation, being used by everyone. I'm not sure it's a bad thing for a rich person to be able to live off their wealth / interest, after all - how else can you take care of yourself when too old to work? I do have a big problem with super rich banker cartels, run by the old bloodlines, that inheret money, live a life of decadence, but create wars for the rest of us to die in, just so they can further increase their own power base. Doesn't matter what money is replaced by, if we still allow some people to behave this way, then the same problems will continue. Perhaps the problem is the inheretence of great wealth - rather than being able to earn it for yourself? If money was not passed through generations, then each person would have to start off by making their million, which would be rather fair? But who would want to not be able to leave someting to help their kids get a head start in life? While we don't have a very perfect system now, be careful what you wish for, because any society where some mob decides it can help itself to your belongings, is destined for war/anarchy... Not everybody works hard, not everybody is smart, so perhaps it is natures' law that not everybody shares the wealth? Maybe the problem is war allows dumb lazy people to get their hands on the wealth? In the end, if you follow the logic, I believe it will ultimately boil down to power. Whoever has the power has the gold, and visa versa. The solution is for everyone to be able to defend themselves - Hence Wing Chun.....

I retract my previous commie statement! I just wanted to get a healthy reply toward the converse to interject this preponderance: Along side this capitalist mindset (I'm American, I kid with my previous statement upon the state confiscating wealth, or forced labor) , we are slipping more and more towards nationalism in some ways, socialism in others, yet still retaining our capitalist system of laws. My question arises when & if it is appropriate for somebody to have millions of dollars in a country where their is no ownership of personal property, and if we are slipping so far left dare I say towards a communistic social welfare system, when does it become the peoples obligation toward peacefully through legal process reclaim their money that was awarded to the banks by the people who lobbied the government to do so, and as a direct result of such proffered. Was the money theirs in the first place if the obfuscation of wealth is that of our grand children's, grand children's, grand children? Then is it immoral to allow these people to take our tax money they lobbied into their own hands and spend it, or could we ask for it back?

The relevance is I'm with you. We should be able to work hard, earn a honest living, and some day retire. Some how I feel those with all the money aren't going to let that happen though. If it came down to it money is power, so if we take their power away, then they could no longer pay off the legal system. Then they have to answer to the law. =) j/k. Input?