Although cannabis is again a Class B drug in the UK, things are definitely moving in the right direction in terms of public attitude. As this continues to happen, the government's prohibitionist stance is becoming increasingly criticised from all directions. This is a good thing, and for this reason I would be very surprised if a similar situation occurs in the UK anytime soon.

W

Ice plants are another possibility, but there's even less research on those than with grasses.

The title of this thread reads like the headline in a supermarket checkout rag.

This is the kind of thinking that spreads panic amongst the herd.

We should take a deep breath and calm down; and spread calmness throughout the herd.

I bet this all blows over and the unwarranted charges get dropped.

BBB would be better off moving to a less hostile location and regrow its roots.

OF

swim is concerned for this BBB raid folks are talking about due to being a recent buyer from bbb, swim is questioning if swim should get rid of any unfinished products and stop all procedures. hide the finished products in safe haven? is this needed according to those who are more knowledgable?

I don't think this situation is being over-hyped or its significance exaggerated or dramatized to an absurd level. This is what each one of us has feared for years: that the government would eventually challenge the sale and distribution of these plant materials. Everyday I would be puzzled why these powerful powders, dried chips, and seeds were so freely bought and sold in the USA when this country's drug policies are so draconian.

Now the drama will play itself out and the outcome will have a real and permanent impact on all of us. The reactions of some vendors certainly jolted me and I will dread the day when all of the doors are closed to us.

I hope you are right, OriginalFace, and I hope that we are all overreacting and that this will all blow over. Fear and panic are often not productive, but frustration and anger can spark powerful responses and creative solutions. I think it is important that we keep the dialogue going and voice our fears, our hopes, our best case scenarios, and our worst case scenarios.

I wouldn't worry much. They go after the deep pockets and that's why they went after BBB. If you look back at previous busts like Operation Web Tryp or the PF Tek guy's saga, they left the consumers alone. It's one thing to go after a large distributor of gray market material because the stakes are so high, it's another thing to go after individual consumers of gray market material because the stakes are so low.

I'm not even remotely worried about it. The molecule is everywhere. IMHO law enforcement and regulatory entities will find out soon enough how futile the effort of keeping DMT out of our hands really is. Ban MHRB? OK possibly. As long is there is a demand for it there will be a market for it legal or illegal. Question- If MHRB is placed on a list of illegal contraband and you know where to buy it will you?

Grasses and other plants will replace MHRB if it becomes illegal. What are they going to do start eradicating native grasses of North America? If MHRB were to become illegal some other plant material will replace it in good time.

There is a small dedicated group of psychonauts out there, that we are a part of, that will crunch this. This is not even a speed bump. The new sources will be found, the new teks will be researched and developed for the masses.

I dont see a major problem here. I know for certain that this is not going to impede my pursuit of religous freedom in any way shape or form.

Improvise, adapt, and overcome.

Thanks for this. Your words are calming and encouraging.

If the charge of "Unlawful cultivation or distribution of controlled substances: Dimethlyltryptamine" were upheld, then that would mean that any DMT-containing plant is illegal (assuming it doesn't refer to some extracted DMT), so there would be no more grey area and whatever you grew would be equally illegal as long as it contained DMT. You may as well grow MHRB in that case. The legal situation with all native DMT-containing species such as grasses would surely then be similar to the one you already have with peyote.

If that charge doesn't stick, there's still the ones for chacruna, chaliponga, cebil etc that could exit the grey area and become illegal via this case because they contain DMT. However, MHRB isn't even on the charge list in the other thread. But one would assume that if these other plants are deemed illegal, then so is any DMT-containing plant.

Hopefully they're just throwing as many charges as they think remotely feasible, and they'll get thrown out as legally bogus. I bet BBB get slammed though and end up appealing in a higher court.

Now don't worry about this bit, but just to be nerdy: they do actually have precedent of attempting to eradicate species in the wild. The USA and UN demanded that the Andeans eradicate the coca plant. Peru and Bolivia chose to ignore them but still get hassle about it. The USA developed a fungus to eradicate the plants, but Clinton stopped the scheme because he was worried that it could count as biological warfare, which would be illegal.
The USA developed a similar fungus to eradicate the opium poppy in Afghanistan. I presume that was also halted by Clinton for the same reason, but I'm guessing there.
You don't see cannabis plants growing in the West any more. They may not be native, but at one point in medieval England every peasant grew it, and it didn't disappear on its own.
DMT-containing plants are I expect less of a concern to them than the plants I just mentioned... but these people are on a religious crusade for The Church of Keeping People Unhappy To Try To Make Them Work Harder And Buy More Stuff, so I wouldn't put anything past them.


It's true that the UK is more lenient currently. I read an article about a psychenaut that ended up with just a caution and a £500 fine for his stash of goodies. Here you can buy cactus chips, salvia etc in smart shops, advertised via big posters on the shopfronts! No shrooms sold openly since the 2005 law change though. I have noticed that the UK suppliers of bulk cactus chips that dreamer knew dried up a while ago, but hopefully that was just coincidence rather than an anticipation of a potential crackdown.
I'm not so sure about the public's attitude to hallucinogens being any more lenient than the US. The gutter press is very prohibitionist and even the broadsheets tow the line.

Thanks for the discussion, everyone.

I am concerned and curious, but don't have much to add, other than my prayers.

I shared some changa with a friend for the first time and she saw "the rainbow light of life;" and then, a darkness, that started to attack the rainbow light, and she was being told that its goal is "extinction."

My prayers... my love and gratitude for everyone here...

I have also made the decision that no one can take away or compromise my practice...

There are still a ton of US suppliers offering mimosa. Most of the major suppliers in the US are still selling it: KTB, RSB, HP, etc.

I think the only places that halted sale are those affiliated with BBB or those which purchase their mimosa from BBB and resale it.

It’s my understanding that the way the US law works concerning mimosa is that you MUST have intent to sell mimosa as a drug in order to be prosecuted for its sale. That's my understanding anyway.

I think the BBB charges will be dropped and BBB will continue operation and will no longer carry K2, and the FDA will lose ground after being counter sued by BBB, and possibly other organizations.

I can’t see any other outcome being possible unless BBB actually had extracted DMT on their premises or gave instructions to the FDA or similar officials on how to extract DMT from their mimosa. I highly doubt that happened. So the FDA would have to prove that BBB intended their mimosa to be ingested. Their site has the following information on it which makes this difficult to prove:

im surrounded with phalaris..i have extracted from it with varried results..there is DMT in there..the first time i smoked collected it and smoked it I was shot far.

Im going to start collecting the grass again from diff areas at diff times..from streams and away from stream..in the shade etc to compare results..alot i collected seeds last year to grow in my mina greenhouse where i can stress and controll the grass...there will always be DMT..the FDA can fuck right off as far as im concerned..

we need to do more work with the grasses anyway..might as well do that now and play around..seems best to do that work now while we do habe mimosa so IF that day comes we wont be stumbling around in the dark.

also plant desmanthus..thats what i did.

If it does happen, you can't really argue it ain't for the best. The amount of shipping that was going on is not very environmental to begin with, not to mention the environmental destruction at the outset. There are plenty of plants that are native to the U.S. that we should have been using all along, we were all just too lazy, now we have a reason to get off our asses (kinda sad really).

If the community fades away, that means most were here simply to use these plants, and not enter into an equally beneficial relationship with them. Grow.

Shift in consciousness = shift in behaviors resulting from shifts in consciousness > shipping cost.

I sincerely mean that.

Post-Aya, I was inspired to open a green business that slashes carbon footprints simply by existing.

I see what you mean, yes--but also, please do not underestimate the transformative power of the medicine. The transformation is PRICELESS. The transformation can pull us out of the cultural rut that depends on fossil fuels/pollution/raping the Earth.

.. move to Australia

Swim has always known this would happen. You guys are too lazy to go harvest plants, buy it by the kilo pre powdered and now you're surprised the powers that be have caught on? Come on it was just a matter of time. Learn to ID plants and make some effort. Swim thinks those buying bark haven't put in the effort to really be worthy of having said spice.

To even be in a position of saying someone should or shouldn't have spice says a lot about your character. Get off your high horse.

Maybe, organizing into religious movements like santo-daime, Native american church, etc. is a good idea.
If i would be living in the USA, i would seriously consider this.

I would also consider moving to the states where the local authorities are the most liberal, like california.

Or maybe move to canada.
(ofcourse you're also very welcome here in holland)

It would be a good thing to have large concentrations of enlightened human beings anyway. That might result in a cultural revolution at some point.

Bit harsh. Who's going to go through all that learning for something they haven't tried yet? Extraction was easy by comparison. I think buying bark is necessary for noobs. Dreamer bought some bark and drank some then extracted the rest. Then he realised how special it was and decided to grow his own, and is still learning the necessaries a year on. If only he could buy seeds in his country, and if only MHRB would thrive in his country! The only thing he has managed to grow so far is Torch... maybe in 10 years time he'll get to taste the fruits of his labours!

I extracted mimosa once like 4 years ago probly..then I started going after grasses...I knew what i was after since I had soo mcu experience with psilocin and little with mimosa extracted spice..so i knew where i wanted to go...and i started collecting whild arundinacea and doing extractions..the thing is that A/B teks on the stuff are horrible..toomany fats and oils to deal with its a messy waste of naptha..

Then there is the problme of n oxides..most leafy plant sources like chacruna etc contain lots of n oxides if not all n oxides..and i doubt phalaris is any different..ALL of the old teks i read all used naptha...which wont pull the oxides..so all the old work on grasses should just be forgotten..

I have had effects from phalaris lots of time..i never had pure stuff though becasue of how shitty the a/b teks with naptha work with the stuff...and was very apprehensive so only smoked little ammounts..mostly jsut out of curiosity..but there is DMT there and the grasses are worth being looked at..

I kept seeds that I collected and was growing the wild grass strains from the seeds outdoors in pots last summer..i have more seeds here and the grass grows EVERYWHERE here in fields, along the edges of the rainforest, along the rivers, streams, ditches...fields of it..im going to start some seeds indoors in my greenhouse alongside my desmanthus and controll the environment and experiment until i get soemthing useful..and start collecting wild sutff again..also get some brachystachys..

I knew something like this could be a possability and honestly i dontknow why more people that have better chem equiptment etc that can do sublimation etc havent been doing anything with the grasses...its sad but some of the posts above are true..this might be the way to go in the comming future..

I hope mimosa doesnt become unavailable becasue i love jimjam..and i want to grow the tree..but it takes a long time so i will be waiting years to get anything..but...we need DMT independance...

Im worried about loosing vica seeds as well..god i hope it doesnt come to that..i have yet to get them to germinate properly ...need to get on that.