[quote811d4a691="zhah"]Thanks for your comments, Noman. This is why I started this thread. I think this would be a good tek for Erowid, too. Due to it's many fine pictures, it would be a good replacement for QT's tek, don't you think? As Coschi points out, it says right at the beginning of the tek that this can be used for any material, but it would be good if it were made very plain that this is a good, generic all-purpose dmt-extraction tek.[/quote811d4a691] Yes, I just mean that it should be quite explicit that this is a tek for any plant material that doesn't come clean with a standard A/B or STB. Since mine went up Ive come to realize that things that seem obvious arent always. Id love to see this boot QTs bullshit but a replacement would be an A/B for MHRB that works. Coschi - this could be adapted to cactus by extracting with xylene or toluene, polar washing the NP, and salting with HCl rather than acetic acid. Dry your aqueous solution and you've got mescaline.

[quote:78c7fd4936="Noman"]Yes, I just mean that it should be quite explicit that this is a tek for any plant material that doesn't come clean with a standard A/B or STB. Since mine went up Ive come to realize that things that seem obvious arent always.[/quote:78c7fd4936] This is interesting...what "things"? You mean like standard lab techniques or what? -z

Naw, more like getting asked "I cant find 10% ammonia, can I just go to recrystalization?" Quote from tek: "Note: if you intend to recrystallize, you can omit the ammonia wash". I dont mind, its just weird that so many people miss that point.

lol this is a common problem amongst the population.. the cause? people don't read!!!! i was an engineer previously and i'd write really concise emails and instructions for fuckers to use, and without fail again and again these fools would come and ask me dumbass questions that were clearly written HAD THE READ THE SHIT ARGGGGHH :evil: ok ok i'm over it

also obtus branches are reported to contain 0.09% dmt which is nto really worth anyone while when we pick the psilocybe mushroom we kill the fungi

[quote:6ba6305558="mardybum"]when we pick the psilocybe mushroom we kill the fungi[/quote:6ba6305558] You sure about that? I thought the fungi grew mostly underground and it was just the fruiting body that was the actual mushroom bit. If you give the shrooms a shake after picking them and maybe throw a couple into a field where there are no shrooms then you are helping propagate the spores and actually doing the fungus a favour! Not that i'm particularly bothered about killing a few trees. The amount of wood and paper in my house at the moment - i'd be a hypocrite if i was. It's the unsustainable felling of trees that is a worry. If you plant some new ones and especially if you set fire to the ground to get the seeds to germinate from the old one then i don't see the problem unless the tree is engangered (it's not).

[quote:f50bcdca70="MrM"][quote:f50bcdca70="mardybum"]when we pick the psilocybe mushroom we kill the fungi[/quote:f50bcdca70] You sure about that? I thought the fungi grew mostly underground and it was just the fruiting body that was the actual mushroom bit. [/quote:f50bcdca70] Correct. The "fungus" is really the web-like mycelium strands living in whatever substrate. The "mushrooms" that we see are just the fruiting bodies...picking a mushroom is analagous to picking an apple. Where did you come off with that bs, mardybum? I don't think "shaking the mushrooms a bit" would really help, though distributing caps obviously would distribute spores, especially if deposited in a likely habitat, not just in some "field". There are other ways to distribute spores...one of the best I've seen is the picture in Stamets book of Cruz (Stamets' Partner) wearing a hat with five fat cubensis spore prints on it. When she walks around, especially in crowds, it distributes millions of spores. :-) -z

[quote:984e7842fb="zhah"][quote:984e7842fb="MrM"][quote:984e7842fb="mardybum"]when we pick the psilocybe mushroom we kill the fungi[/quote:984e7842fb] You sure about that? I thought the fungi grew mostly underground and it was just the fruiting body that was the actual mushroom bit. [/quote:984e7842fb] Where did you come off with that bs, mardybum? [/quote:984e7842fb] meh it was just a guess.. i was a bit drunk at the time so that didnt help. ive grown them before so i know this, i dunno why i didnt think things through lol. BUT i am doing a 2kg a.maidenii extraction, just started last night. ill let everybody know how it goes, wish me luck. will be using this tek btw, hehe

Hey guys. If you pick mushrooms out of the ground you damage the mycelium and kill it. If however when you are picking mushrooms you cut the stem with scissors, leaving about one cm of stalk behind you will not damage it and it will be able to fruit again. When picking, tap the top and cut the stem. That will maximise regrowth next season.

Hi Silly Simon, [quote:2172747e05="sillysyban"]Hey guys. If you pick mushrooms out of the ground you damage the mycelium and kill it. If however when you are picking mushrooms you cut the stem with scissors, leaving about one cm of stalk behind you will not damage it and it will be able to fruit again. When picking, tap the top and cut the stem. That will maximise regrowth next season.[/quote:2172747e05] well, this is a hotly contested topic amonst mycophiles and the cause of a lot of flame wars. First of all, you certainly [b:2172747e05]don't[/b:2172747e05] [i:2172747e05]kill[/i:2172747e05] the mycelium just by picking a mushroom. The mycelium net in the substrate for most species is bigger than that. If you google about the world's largest living organism, you'll get some hits about an armillaria mycelium in New England which is many hundreds of square kilometers big. Of course, not all myceliums are that big, and if you rip out mushrooms by the handful, you can obviously damage the mycelium. The [i:2172747e05]Question[/i:2172747e05] is, how do you do the [i:2172747e05]least damage[/i:2172747e05] to the mycelium. There are some who claim that by cutting off a mushroom you leave an open surface in which germs, etc. can better penetrate and hence damage the mycelium more than by gently twisting the mushroom out of the ground (I personally don't believe this, and am just reporting). Others contend that the slight tearing of the mycelium associated with twisting the mushroom out is worse. Nobody really knows for sure, since there don't seem to have been any studies done, so it's better not to just go making broad statements about what's better and certainly not exaggerated claims about killing the mycelium when one really doesn't know this. There certainly are lots of people who have patches of mushrooms, twist them out, and have mushrooms come again next year and it does seem ridiculous that tearing a small section of the mycelium would kill the whole network in the substrate.... -z

Oh cool. I bow down to your greater wisdom on the matter. I was just reporting what I was told. Thanks for the info. Now I am confused as what to do when I go picking.

This is the most derailed thread Ive ever been on. Shall we start over? So I was sayin to Maybel I sez "That Lex Coschi figure, he put up a pretty good tek regarding DMT extraction from plant materials that maybe aint so forgiving as Mimosa an maybe it should be on Erowid." Lets go from there.

Quite honestly the best tek (concerning dmt) I've read (pics helping immensely) and one of the best in general that I've read. Grats. Erowid will have no problem putting that up.

Hey Psilly Simon, [quote:a9b330d3c6="sillysyban"]Oh cool. I bow down to your greater wisdom on the matter. I was just reporting what I was told. Thanks for the info. Now I am confused as what to do when I go picking.[/quote:a9b330d3c6] not sure to what extent you're being sarcastic...Didn't mean to come across as a know-it-all, I was just trying to provide some information and illuminate both sides of the debate. Sorry if it came across wrong. I also apologize to mardybum if "where did you come off with that bs" came across wrong, too...it was just eye-rolling and nothin' else. no hard feelings... Noman's admirably trying to getting us back on track, but just to wrap this up (I can't resist...): If you're collecting for identification you have to take the whole stem base including some rhizoids, since the stem base can be crucial for identification, so you have to dig or twist out the whole thing anyway. If you're collecting a known mushroom for consumption, I personally would just pinch or cut off the mushroom at the base of the stem as close to the ground as possible. I don't buy into the "infection of the mycelium through the cut" theory because the normal life-cycle of the mushroom entails the fruiting body decaying down to the ground, so there are loads of bacteria, etc. decomposing the stem right down to the mycelium. Also, snails are constantly causing open wounds, and animals eat mushrooms, biting them off in the stem, so the mushrooms should be evolutionarily set-up to fend off this kind of damage. (Hey Mods: is there anyway we can transfer the last four posts dealing with mushrooms to another thread, e.g. mushroom harvesting in the plant discussion forum, or general discussion forum? Noman's right, they're really out of place here!) [quote:a9b330d3c6="Noman"]This is the most derailed thread Ive ever been on. Shall we start over?[/quote:a9b330d3c6] thanks for getting us back on track... I'm going to e-mail coschi about the typos, and coschi already said he could make the General Usefulness (c) of this tek even more explicit...what else needs to be said/done? -z

Noman, does this tek need to acidify with HCl to maintain generality or can we use acetic for any DMT material? Why does one need to use HCl for cactus? Does mescaline not form an acetate salt? -z

Acetic is fine for the initial extraction of plant matter - in fact, you should definitely stick with vinegar for this step since it prevents over acidification. For salting out, my friend always uses HCl but Im sure acetic works just fine for DMT. It probably doesnt matter a whole lot since the salt is not the final product. My friend has heard bad things about acetic and mescaline and so has never tried it. Fable's tek uses tartaric and it sounds like the salt precipitates, so maybe thats the way to go.

[quote:b9d5d239bc="zhah"]not sure to what extent you're being sarcastic...Didn't mean to come across as a know-it-all, I was just trying to provide some information and illuminate both sides of the debate. Sorry if it came across wrong. -z[/quote:b9d5d239bc] Hey Zhah, I actually wasnt being sarcastic at all mate. I am happy to recieve any new info on our favorite type of plants. Phwew, glad we got that one sorted out. I agree with Noman too. We should keep on track. I will be doing this extraction on plants with chlorophyll within a month and will post my results.

Acetic is fine for all dmt extraction no matter what the plant material *i think*.. i doubt there is anywhere where HCl or other would specifically work better A solid dmt salt is dmt tartrate. i'm not sure of the melting point of dmt tartrate but if it's higher than 100 degrees celcius you could make a ph 4 tartaric acid + distilled water solution and dissolve your dmt freebase into this. evaporate your water in an oven at about 80 degrees celcius and you should have your salt I'm not experienced with enough mescaline to comment though

Swim is about to try this tek. He has 2kg pre powdered MHRB. Is there anything he needs to do different then was done with the acacia?

While doing some "thought experiments" this week a few things started to concern me regarding Acacia extractions. Firstly with the solubility of yummy tryptamines in shellite not being that great, (I know it is good for precipitating out with and is a selective solvent) wouldn't it be better to extract initially with a "broad spectrum" solvent so as not to miss any spice, something like toluene or xylene then do the acid wash and use hot shellite for the final extraction? The reason I am thinking through this is because if I am loosing a certain % at each step I would rather loose as little as possible in the bulk extraction as it would be easier to recover any missed spice from a clean reduced liquid. Another Q does anyone know the solubility of DMT in shellite? I believe it is pretty poor in anything but boiling shellite and even then it takes its time. And lastly what kind of extraction % for acid/base, extract, clean acid base and weigh yield would you expect? Would it be better than 50%? I am starting to think that shellite is a bit too selective for use other than for making nice crystals. Wouldn't performing an extraction with xylene at both steps and then drying to residue then dissolve the residue in a small amount of very hot shellite be more effective and efficient ? The way I think it, it would reduce the % losses until the very end step. Any comments? One more thing, if someone was thinking of an aya style brew couldn't you leave the spice as a salt and skip a few end steps to retain yield? Its going to be turned into a salt in your stomach anyway. PS thumbs up for the cleaning step after the initial extraction, there is no sludge to deal with or killer emulsions and the volume can be reduced considerably.