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Altman's (Semi) Monstrose Pachanoi Options
 
Grey Fox
#1 Posted : 6/2/2019 8:51:37 PM

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This cutting is from the Altman's Monstrose Pachanoi. In reality its growth habit is semi-monstrose for the most part. I have a few of these. They are fast growing and attractive. This is the second most common clone available in the USA, second only to PC in terms of how often it is found for sale at garden centers, hardware stores, etc.

I've tried it before, but always mixed with other cacti. I've never tried it on its own. So thats what I plan to do, in a few weeks time.

The camera distorted the perspective somewhat. This cutting is just slightly over 11 inches in length. It is 4 inches wide.

I'll report back afterwards to let you all know how it is. A good quality pachanoi cutting of this size should be a nice trip.
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downwardsfromzero
#2 Posted : 6/3/2019 8:05:26 PM

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Just photography advice really:
Quote:
The camera distorted the perspective somewhat.

If you take the shot from further away, but zoomed in, the distortion is typically a bit less - if you have a camera with a zoom lens, of course.

Do you have lots of this variety of cactus? Because the thought of cooking the tip rather than keeping it to grow makes me feel uncomfortable!

Still, it's a nice piece of cactus - it makes those inches look like centimeters!
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“To be GOVERNED is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be GOVERNED is to be at every operation, at every transaction noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be place under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonored. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality."
― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
 
Grey Fox
#3 Posted : 6/3/2019 8:38:19 PM

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Thanks for the camera advice. I'll keep that in mind next time.

You know, generally I brew mid cuts and plant tip cuts, but I have 3 of these already and I dont really want to plant more right now. In general I'm trying not to plant more of anything unless its something that I really like already. Maybe this clone will make that list one day.
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Grey Fox
#4 Posted : 6/17/2019 7:19:00 PM

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So it looks like tomorrow night will be the time to do this. I decided to add a 6 inch piece of Bridgesii. It just feels like the right thing to do to get to where I want to be. I'll let you all know how it turns out.
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Spiralout
#5 Posted : 6/18/2019 5:47:10 AM

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Since staggering your dose works so well with cacti..... I vote that you ingest ONLY the "monstrosus" first... And THEN take the bridgesii after you have an idea of the potency....

We need to know!
 
Grey Fox
#6 Posted : 6/20/2019 1:09:00 AM

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So I drank the tea last night. The tea turned out really thick, like sludge. I did eveything the same as normal, and it usually doesn't turn out so thick. Kept trying to filter it but nothing helped. It was like a cactus milkshake.

It tasted bitter and was extremely salty. The saltiest I ever tasted. Basically, it was so salty that it was unpalatable. I took a couple of drinks and couldn't stomach anymore. Ended up discarding the rest and smoking a bowl of cannabis to settle my stomach.

I didnt expect to feel anything from the cactus, since I had only consumed a small amount of the tea. But surprisingly I did feel some effects. I was wired with energy. Kept pacing around. Couldnt sit still. Couldnt sleep. And I saw some visuals. Mostly it was patterns of stars. Sometimes they looked like five-pointed stars. Sometimes they looked like dots of light. With both closed and open eyes I saw them in front of my visual field. At times they were stationary and at other times they were flying past me. At one point I layed down on the sofa with my eyes closed and I could see through the roof into the night sky. I saw a sky full of constellations that were unrecognizable to me. At the peak of the trip the stars looked like tiny spinning galaxies. I looked at my arm and it looked robotic, filled with wires. And the tiny galaxies were traveling up and down the wires. I just intuitively understood that the galaxies were packets of information traveling back and forth. Honestly I was shocked by these visuals, as I had only taken 2 swigs of the tea.

The trip lasted much shorter than usual, about 6 hours of really feeling it. I was able to fall alseep around sunrise and sleep for a couple of hours. I woke up with a pounding headache, which I never get from cactus. This was a very unusual tea indeed.

The tea was made up mostly of the pachanoi. It was much fatter than the bridgesii. By volume the tea probably consisted of 3 parts pachanoi to 1 part bridgesii. So mostly what I was tasting and experiencing was from the pachanoi.

Ultimately, unfortunately, this experiment was so muddied up that I'm not really sure what it says about the Altman's pachanoi. But I'll give it my best shot. There's definitely mescaline in it. But there's other chemicals there too, causing that terrible saltiness and the headache. And thats about all that I can say. I wish there was more. This clone deserves further study. Its the second most common pachanoi in the U.S.A. More should be done to understand it. But I don't think that I'll be the one to do that research. At least not anytime soon. That saltiness was overpowering. Maybe it was caused by environmental factors. Maybe some other cause can explain it. But I dont want to taste that extreme saltiness again. I would encourage anyone who considers using this clone to try tar or an extraction. That extreme saltiness is not something that you want to taste.

Even though the trip was short, nevertheless I found it to be impactful. I spent most of it with a laser focus upon the people who matter most to me in my life. I had an overwhelming feeling that some of my priorities need to change. I need to spend more time with my family. They need more of my focus. Other things that have felt very important need to be dropped to lower priorities. Part of that is my time spent online. Part of that is my obsession with cactus. Everything must settle back into a healthier order of priority. This I saw with great clatity, and I must honor it.

The headache has gone away now. My energy level is still definitely elevated. My mind feels very sharp and focused. I am thankful for last night's experience, as strange as it was.
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brewster
#7 Posted : 6/20/2019 4:55:43 PM

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Wow, interesting! Thanks for the report. Seems to be rather potent - a shame it tasted to evil.
 
doubledog
#8 Posted : 6/20/2019 5:14:53 PM

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Does anybody know what are these salts?
I would say they could be some calcium salts, maybe calcium malate or oxalate.
Definitely would be better to separate them.
 
0_o
#9 Posted : 6/20/2019 8:51:56 PM

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I haven't noticed salty flavors before.
Calcium crystals are often conspicuous in the plants and the Brew

Fertilizer salts could be the cause. I wonder?
Magnesium salts perhaps?

The calcium oxalate crystals are abundant in numerous cacti including peyote.
They aren't known to cause issues the way calcium oxalate can in Dieffenbachia spp

 
Grey Fox
#10 Posted : 6/21/2019 5:44:51 PM

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Its not uncommon for trichos to have a salty taste. It you eat enough of these cacti or drink enough teas you're going to encounter some salty ones. But the saltiness this time was way beyond what I've encountered before.

This cacti was acquired 2 years ago as a 1 foot tall rooted cutting. In that time it grew to a 4 foot tall plant. Its been grown organically during those 2 years (only compost and chicken manure), so I dont think fertilizer salts account for the saltiness. That salty flavor is just something that happens from time to time and I am not sure what causes it.

The volume of the cactus was a fairly large amount and it was reduced down to 2 cups of tea (16 ounces). I may have over-reduced it, resulting in it being so thick and concentrating the salty flavor. Also the bridgesii used is a very potent plant and may have contributed a lot to the potency and/or saltiness.
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0_o
#11 Posted : 6/21/2019 6:35:28 PM

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Strangely I've sampled the flavor of a lot of cacti over the last 20 years and I've had brewed, stewed and juiced cacti. (With an actual juicer)

I've yet to encounter any salty flavor at all.
I wonder if they might be Krebs acid salts that don't taste salty to me. If so then purslane would taste salty to you. It doesn't to me but maybe that is subjective?

Fertilizer salts do occur in manure and compost.
 
Grey Fox
#12 Posted : 6/21/2019 7:28:37 PM

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I'm not sure what Krebs acid salts are. I did a quick search and see that it has something to do with citric acid. I did use the juice and pulp of 2 oranges to make the tea, but I regularly use citrus fruit when brewing tea, so I don't think that was the cause. Also I live in a desert area and there is some salinity to the water supply here. But all of my cacti are irrigated with the same water and this tea was extremely salty compared to anything I've tasted before.

It may be a matter of individual taste buds, etc., that explains why one person may taste the saltiness while others may not. But I know that other people have reported tasting saltiness in tricho cacti. Here is an example of a thread discussing saltiness from a different forum:

https://www.shroomery.or...flat.php/Number/26025471
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doubledog
#13 Posted : 6/21/2019 8:24:09 PM

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I have limited experience with Tricho cactus (only resin from evaporated tea), but salty taste was always present.
Cacti have an unique type of metabolism, which includes malic acid, oxalic acid, acetooxalic acid and maybe other similar acids.
Some cacti are also reported to contain high ratio of minerals, mainly calcium.
 
0_o
#14 Posted : 6/21/2019 9:29:39 PM

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Citric acid occurs in cacti, along with several other acids.
They are used in CAM.
In theory they could potentially form salts.
 
Grey Fox
#15 Posted : 6/21/2019 11:51:31 PM

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If you read the posts in the link above you'll see that openmind pointed out that calcium oxalate is present in cacti.

If you read the abstract here you will see that 251 species and subspecies of cacti were tested and calcium oxalate was found in 98% of the taxa.

https://www.nrcresearchp...com/doi/10.1139/B07-046

I would imagine that calcium oxalate (a calcium salt) is a major cause of saltiness in trich cacti. Many people who have consumed flesh or tea from trichos have reported tasting saltiness.
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0_o
#16 Posted : 6/22/2019 12:19:24 AM

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If calcium oxalate was water soluble I'd be inclined to think so.
 
Grey Fox
#17 Posted : 6/22/2019 1:12:16 AM

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I dont know. I'm not a chemist. I dont know what causes the saltiness. I just know that its there.
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doubledog
#18 Posted : 6/22/2019 11:03:27 AM

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According to this source, calcium oxalate is not soluble in water and is tasteless.
https://www.jstor.org/st...tadata_info_tab_contents
 
 
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