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Very bizarre Chaliponga experience? Options
 
theAlkēmist
#1 Posted : 6/10/2019 12:21:09 AM

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Last night at 8.30pm I had 5g S. rue followed 8 minutes later by 10g Chaliponga. I felt absolutely nothing. Not even the S. rue. 5g would easily cause nausea, lethargy, mild closed eye visuals, and full MAO inhibition. Bizarre. After 1 hour I ate a cracker to try and stimulate stomach enzymes. Nada. At 10.00pm, after 1 hour 30 minutes, I went to sleep, not understanding what had happened.

I woke up at 1.30am, 4 hours after ingestion, with that distinct ringing in my ears when you’re coming up on DMT. I saw very mild, translucent fractal-style vortexes everywhere. I was beginning to worry a little, thinking, this is really strange, this shouldn’t be happening. Things were beginning to get very intense and nausea was setting in. I remember being told Chaliponga is a strange plant. I also was distinctly told to start with 3.5g and slowly increase the dose over time and being told it may take a few hours to feel the full effects. This calmed me and I remembered my intentions. I think I was just startled because she woke me up and took me by surprise. Visuals were getting very intense, there were plethora of strange sounds, from the sound of the rainforest, to birds chirping, to what sounded like some type of flying vehicle. I got these visions of a parasite being lodged somewhere in me, and Chaliponga trying to pull it out. The visions were very vivid. We were fighting with this parasite for some time. When we dislodged it I purged heavily. I had been fasting for the last 16 hours, but my emesis was full of chunks. As soon as I purged, instead of the journey becoming more intense, like it usually does, the journey began to dissipate. I lay down, enjoyed the visuals and went to sleep.

A strange experience, I still don’t understand the come up time of 4 hours and the strange purge. Usually I come up within 20 minutes, the journey starts after the purge, and the ceremony lasts 1-2 hours.

Maybe some light can be shed?
“The art of alchemy is like a psycho-spiritual multi-vitamin and mineral elixir secreted by the cosmic mind to help heal the collective madness that has infected our world.”

“If the prima materia contains poison, then the more virulent the poison, the more powerful are its potential healing qualities. Accomplished alchemists are able to transmute the poison into a healing nectar.“
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
dragonrider
#2 Posted : 6/10/2019 9:53:44 AM

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I have experienced something simmilar once. When, after a couple of hours it finally kicked in, it came on pretty fast though. As if it had been holding back for all those hours and now realy wanted to make up for it.

I have no explanation for how this is possible. The human digestive system is realy quite complex.

Maybe a fluid can sit in the stomach for a couple of hours, without mixing with the rest of the content of the stomach. Like oil that floats on water without mixing with it.
 
theAlkēmist
#3 Posted : 6/10/2019 10:20:07 AM

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Very bizarre in deed.
“The art of alchemy is like a psycho-spiritual multi-vitamin and mineral elixir secreted by the cosmic mind to help heal the collective madness that has infected our world.”

“If the prima materia contains poison, then the more virulent the poison, the more powerful are its potential healing qualities. Accomplished alchemists are able to transmute the poison into a healing nectar.“
 
Jagube
#4 Posted : 6/10/2019 11:20:12 AM

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A 4 hour come-up time is not uncommon with Chaliponga. I don't see anything unusual in your report.

Sounds like if you hadn't purged, you might have gotten yourself in for quite a ride.
 
theAlkēmist
#5 Posted : 6/10/2019 11:32:36 AM

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Jagube wrote:
A 4 hour come-up time is not uncommon with Chaliponga. I don't see anything unusual in your report.

Sounds like if you hadn't purged, you might have gotten yourself in for quite a ride.


But why? I don’t understand what’s happening biochemically.
“The art of alchemy is like a psycho-spiritual multi-vitamin and mineral elixir secreted by the cosmic mind to help heal the collective madness that has infected our world.”

“If the prima materia contains poison, then the more virulent the poison, the more powerful are its potential healing qualities. Accomplished alchemists are able to transmute the poison into a healing nectar.“
 
Jagube
#6 Posted : 6/10/2019 2:22:14 PM

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theAlkēmist wrote:
Jagube wrote:
A 4 hour come-up time is not uncommon with Chaliponga. [..]


But why? I don’t understand what’s happening biochemically.

I don't think it's well understand, but there is some discussion of this in this thread, where it's speculated that it may have to do with its high tannin content (and possibly DMT occurring as tannic acid salts).
 
theAlkēmist
#7 Posted : 6/10/2019 10:20:51 PM

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Jagube wrote:
theAlkēmist wrote:
Jagube wrote:
A 4 hour come-up time is not uncommon with Chaliponga. [..]


But why? I don’t understand what’s happening biochemically.

I don't think it's well understand, but there is some discussion of this in this thread, where it's speculated that it may have to do with its high tannin content (and possibly DMT occurring as tannic acid salts).


Thanks man Thumbs up
“The art of alchemy is like a psycho-spiritual multi-vitamin and mineral elixir secreted by the cosmic mind to help heal the collective madness that has infected our world.”

“If the prima materia contains poison, then the more virulent the poison, the more powerful are its potential healing qualities. Accomplished alchemists are able to transmute the poison into a healing nectar.“
 
tregar
#8 Posted : 6/11/2019 1:56:41 AM

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Chaliponga is often only recommended for advanced Shaman's, I've dreamed it 3 times and just find it too hard to work with, it can turn on you in an instant. I do love the Hawaiian psychotria however, so Heavenly and powerful. Thanks for sharing your experience.
 
Jagube
#9 Posted : 6/11/2019 1:01:24 PM

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tregar wrote:
Chaliponga is often only recommended for advanced Shaman's, I've dreamed it 3 times and just find it too hard to work with, it can turn on you in an instant. I do love the Hawaiian psychotria however, so Heavenly and powerful.

There are benign Chaliponga strains and they're amazing, the best medicine I've ever had. Easier than Chacruna and more interesting. Basically all the good you could imagine coming from Ayahuasca, but without any fear / anxiety.
 
dragonrider
#10 Posted : 6/11/2019 2:11:39 PM

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There is a tradition of mixing chacruna with chaliponga. They combine quite well. Obviously you should limit the amount of chaliponga when you mix it with chacruna.
 
Jagube
#11 Posted : 6/11/2019 5:00:39 PM

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dragonrider wrote:
There is a tradition of mixing chacruna with chaliponga. They combine quite well. Obviously you should limit the amount of chaliponga when you mix it with chacruna.

I would be interested to hear more on that. Do you know what tribe does that and where? Or is it a relatively new development?

From what I've heard, Chaliponga is mainly used in Ecuador and Colombia, while Chacruna is the admixture of choice in Peru and Brazil; Chaliponga doesn't do well outside of its native range, but it has recently been introduced to the Iquitos area, where it's gaining popularity.
 
dragonrider
#12 Posted : 6/11/2019 7:22:54 PM

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Jagube wrote:
dragonrider wrote:
There is a tradition of mixing chacruna with chaliponga. They combine quite well. Obviously you should limit the amount of chaliponga when you mix it with chacruna.

I would be interested to hear more on that. Do you know what tribe does that and where? Or is it a relatively new development?

From what I've heard, Chaliponga is mainly used in Ecuador and Colombia, while Chacruna is the admixture of choice in Peru and Brazil; Chaliponga doesn't do well outside of its native range, but it has recently been introduced to the Iquitos area, where it's gaining popularity.

I don't know if it is a very old tradition.

Someone once told me that indeed in some northern regions they use chaliponga, and chacruna is an admixture used in the more southern areas, but that in the "border regions" they sometimes mix the two.

After hearing about this, i started to experiment a bit with this myself, and found that the best way to do this is to add just a few leaves of chaliponga to a chacruna brew. If you use more leaves, the chaliponga overpowers the chacruna completely and you may use only chaliponga just as well. But somewhere in between 5 to 10 leaves of chaliponga does "spice up" a chacruna brew in a nice way.
 
Jagube
#13 Posted : 6/12/2019 2:42:49 PM

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Thanks dragonrider.

To answer a question asked on the chat yesterday by werd, there is a strain of Chaliponga I've never had a difficult experience with and I have experienced it in a wide range of doses. The one I partook of yesterday was a different one, I had known it to be more challenging, but still it was easier than some of the crazy-making ones I'd had in the past. There may also be a factor of things getting easier with experience. It wasn't 'bizarre', but it did 'turn on me in an instant' as tregar describes it - basically I was having a smooth ride when I suddenly went down a line of thought that frightened me and I found myself unable to get out of it; like something was being pushed onto me; a kind of dilemma where you are forced to face something but at the same time you make an oath not to face it, because you feel it might threaten something you've held on to your entire life (perhaps your sanity, physical well being or life itself). But I felt that while disconcerting, it was under a level of control. Now I'm grateful to have gone through it, the lessons I took away from it.

In any case, there is an easy (yet powerful) Chaliponga strain out there.

Also I have friends who work with Colombian Chaliponga (one of them is Colombian) and don't find it less preferable to Chacruna.
 
pinkoyd
#14 Posted : 6/14/2019 3:03:26 AM

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Jagube wrote:
Chaliponga doesn't do well outside of its native range,


Quite to the contrary, chaliponga has finally made it to the US and does very well indeed in Florida when protected from freezing. A specimen is known to exist in North Carolina which has survived as a part-time houseplant (i.e. protected indoors in the winter) for the last three years or so.

Efforts to further expand the plant's range within this country and across the planet are currently underway. Big grin
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Jagube
#15 Posted : 6/14/2019 11:38:20 AM

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Thanks for that, pinkoyd. Seems hardier than P. viridis then, for which keeping above freezing is not enough.

I had read the attempts to introduce it to the Pucallpa region had failed, and they involved advanced techniques such as tissue culture.
 
pinkoyd
#16 Posted : 6/14/2019 5:00:44 PM

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Larger specimens of P.viridis will take it right down to 32F, small ones are less hardy and should indeed be protected from near freezing temps.

Tissue culture for D. cabrerana is overkill in my opinion because it is turning out to be insanely easy to propagate from woody stem cuttings.
I already asked Alice.

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