Hello,

where is the exact difference between Anadenanthera colubrina & Anadenanthera peregrina? Which is better for 5-meo-dmt consumption? And how can I consume 5 meo dmt from these in the best way - do I have to extract it before smoking? If yes, what is the best way/ tek for it?

Thank you a lot

Dont they contain mostly Bufotenine?

Im also interested in the difference between them.

I thought they were the only source for 5 meo dmt?!

You may be correct, but I thought it was just a small part of the alkaloids.

Most of the 5-MEO I think is synthetic from research chem labs, or from the sanoran desert toad. I haven't seen any Tek to extract pure 5-MEO.

I have seen discussions to extract Bufotenine from the seeds.

There have also been discussions about chaliponga having small amounts of 5-MEO, but I've also seen this refuted.

But I may be completely wrong. Due to its risk profile, 5-MEO is the one thing I have no urge to dabble with.

There seem to be at least two chaliponga chemotypes out there, one feels like DMT, the other I would call "DMT plus", because it starts off as DMT and later on other effects kick in that I haven't experienced with other DMT admixtures.

Interesting. I've only tried what was branded Columbian chaliponga, my subjective experience was that had a darker theme to it, and visuals was sort of black and white. Definitely distinctly different than chacruna, acrb and mhrb.

Colubrina doesn't have 5-MeO-DMT but is mostly 5-HO-DMT. With peregrina reports differ. There has been analysis', where they showed a significant amount, but many here who tested them didn't find any relevant amounts.

One big problem is, that the seeds are not distinguishable. There's no means to tell just from the look of the seeds if they are colubrina or peregrina.

Even to differentiate the trees is difficult, as there are only some fine details upon which you can differentiate them. So most A. peregrina that is sold online isn't really peregrina, but colubrina. This may explain many reports of negative 5-MeO-DMT findings in peregrina. But there are also some who did an analysis of what was clearly identified as peregrina (and I believe them), but it lacked relevant amounts of 5-MeO-DMT. So likely there are different chemotypes.



Lol, surely not. A very good source is e.g. Virola. But good Virola is hard to come by nowadays and sourcing often very unethical, as very old trees get killed for it.

Then there is also Phalaris as source (e.g. the famous "Turkey Red" variety of Arundinacea), as well as some other plants.

In the animal kingdom you have the famous sonoran desert toad, which you "milk" to get it. But IMHO is it also unethical to hold such toads in captivity and even more so, the milking of wild toads. But everybody has his own ideology in this relation.

Both Anadenanthera colubrina and Anadenanthera peregrina have almost always just bufotenine.

In the rare cases that DMT did appear in analysis, it has been in minor quantities.

For the most part 5-MeO-DMT has also only really been found in trace quantities, in pods without seeds, leaf, seedlings, bark and immature seeds.

The one exception has been in one publication Anadenanthera peregrina var. falcata, showing 4.655% 5-MeO-DMT in seeds (and also in pods) I tried acquiring falcata from a local supplier in Brazil as well as harvesting some myself and they only showed bufotenine. Also there are publications of other falcatas saying only bufotenine.

For 5-MeO-DMT, so far it seems Virola theiodora bark resin is the most reliable plant source we know of but it isn't available for most people.

You can look at Trout's notes for a lot of referenced info on which plants can be found with specific alkaloids. Our wiki has a lot of that info too.

As for Diplopterys cabrerana, I think the whole 5-MeO-DMT claims are mostly myth/self-suggestion. There were several analysis showing only DMT as the main alkaloid, sometimes with traces of other alkaloids. 5-MeO-DMT has only been found in the stems, not the leafs, and even then, only in trace quantities..

I tested myself a Diplopterys leaf from a source that some people were claiming gave "dark" experiences, and it was pretty much just DMT with small amounts of fatty acids.

The thing is that Diplopterys has generally high amounts of DMT, so people might mistake an unexpected higher dosage for a different quality of experience, specially when associated with self suggestion.

It is not absolutely impossible that some rare genetics out there will allow these plants to produce more of other alkaloids but given the amount of tests done so far showing the contrary, I'd say it is unlikely.

We should do more research with potential 5-MeO-DMT plant sources that can be grown/found in different places. There was some initial indication with Phalaris "Turkey Red" strain but I haven't read reports of people having significant yields and general success with it. There may be some more common or easily grown plant with 5-MeO-DMT that would give people a sustainable access to 5-MeO-DMT. Would be interesting if we as a comunity can contribute to this research.

There are many people who claim that chaliponga has strong purgative effects. The fact that chaliponga supposedly contains large amounts of tannins is believed to be responsible for this effect. Or at least by some people on this forum.

I think that one way or another, these purgative effects are also responsible for those "dark experiences" people taking chaliponga have had.

It could be purely a psychological effect. Sensing something isn't right with the body is ofcourse likely to have an impact on the psychedelic experience as a whole.

But it could also be, and i personally believe this to be the case, that the nervous system in the guts that is sometimes being refered to as the "second brain", is somehow being triggered by both DMT, as well as whatever it is that causes the purgative effects. And i believe that the combination of 5-ht2 activity and purgative effects (maybe 5-ht3 stimulation) causes the "second brain" to send a warning or distress signal to the brain, priming it to be prepared for the incoming DMT.

Especially if some of the tannins would turn out to be active on the 5-ht3 receptors in the stomach and guts, it is likely that the second brain would be sending a lot of warning messages to the brain, that some very potent serotonin agonist is on the way.

In that case the brain would likely respond in a different way than it normally would.

One of the mechanisms responsible for psychedelic effects is downregulation of serotonin receptors. This is an autonomous response of the CNS. But i personally find it very plausible, that 5-ht(2) activity in elsewhere, outside of the brain, strongly influences this proces.

Actually, i would even go as far as saying that it doesn't make sense to assume otherwise. It is a survival-mechanism to prevent potentially lethal overstimulation of receptors throughout the CNS. As most toxins enter the body through the digestive system, it only makes sense that the CNS's first line of defense is, after starting the "ejection procedure", to have the nervous system of the digestive system sending some kind of warning signal to the brain.

I've had strong doses of DMT, but nothing like the 'scary' Chaliponga strains, which are impossible to surrender to. They start off DMT-like (visual) although with a dark feel and can turn into a non-visual but mentally twisting monster even 5-6 hours later.

The closest thing to that scary Chaliponga I've experienced is yopo seeds, but I've only had them once. They were not the same, but much closer than normal Ayahuasca.

In the monster stage I tend to be able to navigate my surroundings very well (even be in public without attracting any attention), but my mind is in agony.
I've experienced mental instability after a strong 'bad chali' session, which lingered for several weeks, whereby I would fall into a thought loop thinking that I was the only person in the universe and there was no help for me because everything was a product of my mind. Even three months later while in a guided meditation session I experienced a flashback. I stopped drinking Ayahuasca for seven months to regain trust.

Lately I've been working with a Chaliponga strain that's very bright and positive and doesn't come with that agonizing monster stage. I feel very safe drinking it and I can only guess the doses I drink have more DMT than the ones I drank of the agonizing strain, because my experiences are more visual.

The agonizing strains of this plant are a ticket to the mental hospital.

Get a sample of both if you can and let's get it tested

I am growing yopo, vilca, and chaliponga, we tested the chaliponga only DMT shows up. Have not tested the other plants.

The benign one I'm confident is only DMT.
The 'malicious' one I haven't had in two years. I have a new, unknown batch of leaf from a different source I haven't tried yet, so if it turns out to be that I'm happy to send it in for analysis.