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DMT Poisoning? Options
 
--Shadow
#1 Posted : 4/25/2019 2:13:50 PM

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I just read an article the other day titled: Syrian rue seeds interacted with acacia tree bark in an herbal stew resulted in N,N-dimethyltryptamine poisoning

I understand there are dangers with taking MAOI's with Tryptophan supplements or any anti-depressants (SSRI's) or stimulants etc, but this is the first I have heard of "DMT poisoning"

Case 1 results:
DMT in urine: 1206 ng/mL
DMT in blood: 25 ng/mL
Harmaline in urine: 1564 ng/mL
Harmaline in blood: 3.3 ng/mL

Case 2 results:
DMT in urine: 478 ng/mL
DMT in blood: undetectable
Harmaline in urine: 1230 ng/mL
Harmaline in blood: undetectable

Are these levels indicative of taking too much of DMT or too much Harmaline? or both?
Do you think they drank too high a dosage, or were they just freaking out? Case 2 patient had no presence of either DMT or Harmaline in the blood, only the urine.

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Brennendes Wasser
#2 Posted : 4/25/2019 3:14:59 PM

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Sounds strange ... I mean it is a common accepted truth that the general usage of the traditional combination of MAOI and all regular DMT-containing plants is safe without restrictions ...

So maybe they had other stuff incorporated that caused trouble in combination?

Well and of course they may have indeed taken a way too high amount that made them freak out, but I guess nobody here has numbers what a "normal excretion" of DMT + Harmaline would produce in numbers for blood + urine concentration : S
Check the

BIG Analysis on DMT !

Lots of interesting and possibly new stuff unraveled ;o
 
ShamensStamen
#3 Posted : 4/25/2019 4:29:28 PM
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It's not at all poisonous, i took Rue and Acacia in heavy dosages daily/near daily for 4 years, no problemo. They likely took too much and freaked tf out, or added something to it or had something else in their system, that they weren't supposed to. One time i gave a friend some Rue and Mimosa (a pretty damn good dose), he thought/said he felt like he had been poisoned lol, it's just how it feels, the overwhelming and sometimes terrifying DMT come up mixed with the sickly bodyload of the Rue/Harmalas/Caapi, i can definitely see where someone might think they've been poisoned, plus i wouldn't put too much faith in certain pubmed articles as some people don't know what they're talking about.
 
Jees
#4 Posted : 4/25/2019 5:52:36 PM

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It is also very easy to consider tripping as a form of poisoning by lack of another way to describe it. Could be that simple.
 
dragonrider
#5 Posted : 4/25/2019 7:07:14 PM

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Jees wrote:
It is also very easy to consider tripping as a form of poisoning by lack of another way to describe it. Could be that simple.

It is. The tone of the article says it all.
 
Nereus
#6 Posted : 4/25/2019 9:02:16 PM

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dragonrider wrote:
Jees wrote:
It is also very easy to consider tripping as a form of poisoning by lack of another way to describe it. Could be that simple.

It is. The tone of the article says it all.


Yeah. Poisoning or intoxication are common terminologies for most research papers on the subject. Understandable though, don't you think ? Big grin
 
downwardsfromzero
#7 Posted : 4/29/2019 2:36:39 AM

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Here's an important fact they've not really highlighted:
Quote:
urine drug screen was positive for amphetamine
for both of them. And they decide to call this DMT poisoning? Same tired old bullshit rhetoric as ever, because a pair of jocks are too dumb to research contraindications for their anahuasca, then used to justify further restrictions to access for plant materials, in all likelihood.

The abstract fails to mention their amphetamine use entirely:
Quote:
ABSTRACT
Introduction: Illicit substance use is an increasing problem all over the world, especially in adolescents
and young adults. It is a challenge to make a definitive diagnosis of a specific substance in a poison-
ing case without toxicology laboratory confirmation. We confirmed the presence of N,N-dimethyltrypt-
amine (DMT) by liquid chromatograph tandem mass spectrometer (LC/MS/MS) in biologic samples
from two patients who presented with signs and symptoms consistent with sympathomimetic toxicity
following the consumption of an herbal stew.
Case: Two patients consumed an herbal stew together developed DMT poisoning from the interaction
between Syrian rue seeds containing alkaloids with monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI) activity and
Acacia tree bark containing DMT. Patients’ blood and spot urine was analyzed by LC/MS/MS which
revealed the presence of DMT (case 1 urine: 1206 ng/mL, serum: 25 ng/mL; case 2 urine: 478 ng/mL,
serum: undetectable) and harmaline (case 1 urine: 1564 ng/mL, serum: 3.3 ng/mL; case 2 urine:
1230 ng/mL, serum: undetectable).
Discussion: The diagnosis of DMT poisoning is confirmed by the presence of DMT and harmaline in
patients’ serum and urine. Case 1 exhibited more severe signs and symptoms (e.g., altered conscious-
ness, rhabdomyolysis, and elevated liver enzyme) than case 2. This may be explained by the presence
of psychoactive DMT levels in the blood of case 1 whereas DMT was undetected in the blood of
case 2.
Conclusions: Consumption of an herbal stew composed of Syrian rue seeds and Acacia tree bark may
be equivalent to taking a combination of DMT and MAOI, which may precipitate a sympathomimetic
syndrome. [No mention of the sympathomimetic effects of amphetamine? Are they kidding us?!] Physicians should be aware that unusual clinical presentations may be the result of drug-
drug interactions from a mixed herbal preparation.[It would be more useful to point out the likelihood of severe adverse effect from combining harmala alkaloids with amphetamine. These guys need to do some more research!]


Amphetamine is not among the article's keywords either:
Quote:
KEYWORDS
N,N-dimethyltryptamine;
monoamine oxidase
inhibitors; acacia tree;
Syrian rue seed; ayahuasca


And then they come to this conclusion:
Quote:
DMT intoxication is manifested as a hyperadrenergic state
that is expected of sympathomimetic toxicity. In emergency
settings, without laboratory evidence, it is almost impossible
for a clinician to confirm a diagnosis of DMT poisoning. Thus,
clinicians should keep in mind about DMT toxicity in cases
presenting with sympathomimetic syndrome, especially with
a history of combined harmaline use.


Are these guys just stupid or do they have an agenda? How can they overlook, or at least only mention in passing, something as crucial as significant amphetamine use in both subjects?

Well, considering the case occurred in Taiwan I think we need to be aware of how that will effect the clinicians perspective here. They seem to be aware of MAOI interactions with sympathomimetics potentially leading to serotonin syndrome - as they should be as clinicians - but they misidentify the sympathomimetic culprit as DMT. I have a suspicion this is a move, through sly reporting, to control Acacia-related material much more tightly in Taiwan.

Paper attached.
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

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