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Dying at home Options
 
Camponotus
#1 Posted : 1/10/2019 1:28:18 PM

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Dear Nexians,

Both of my grandma's had died in the last three months in the Age of 80 and 88

Both had significant health issues in the last two or 3 years and were prescribed with "high" doses of morphin or benzodiazepines on a daily basis!

So over the last years their conditions were getting worse from day to day, with some good days of course here and there.

My maternal grandma had to deal with very bad epilepsy, which occurred first 10 years ago as some mild absence seizures and ended in the last strong focal seizure which lasted over 24 hours! Sad
Day after the last seizure she died apparently because of an lung inflammation IN A SANATORIUM, which monitored her medication and previous seizures in the last two years she was bedridden and in-/outpatient there occasionally.

My paternal grandma died today, she was the elder one, in A HOSPITAL where she was regularly inpatient because of things elderly people have to deal with e.g. hip fracture, MRSA, chronic pain and so on...
She was nodding all day long for the last two years, IMHO because of her descriptions...

I don't wanna discuss about descriptions or Benzo A or B is better... the pharma groups do some in vivo testing with all of us - if we hand ourselves over to their executers!

I want to rant some thoughts or moreover hear your opinions about the fact you have some beloved family member, mother, father which has a very bad health condition, maybe there's a general worsening of symptoms on a long-term amount of time and it's foreseeable that he/she/it is going to die sooner or later on a short-term base AND it's because of their age nothing someone should worry about, because they had reached a "reasonable" age!

Would you assume the "medical responsibility" and let them die in peace at home in a setting which is familiar and dignified or would you take any concern about another occurred worsening of symptoms (diarrhea's, colds, seizures or disorientation) as a reason to take them to the hospital again, where they may gonna die?

given the fact that you have all the necessary prescription and emergency medicaments (pain killers, benzodiazepines etc.), they would administer them in a hospital, already at hand/home!^^

Thanks!
It's the job that's never started as takes longest to finish. - J.R.R. Tolkien

How long will this last, this delicious feeling of being alive, of having penetrated the veil which hides beauty and the wonders of celestial vistas? It doesn't matter, as there can be nothing but gratitude for even a glimpse of what exists for those who can become open to it. - Alexander Shulgin
 

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dragonrider
#2 Posted : 1/10/2019 3:14:09 PM

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I think if it would be even remotely possible, i would do anything to let my mother spent her last days in her own house. Sometimes you're just not given that choice. For instance, when someones condition deteriorates quickly once they got hospitalised.

If someone is gonna die anyway, there is no use anymore in any kind of treatment, other than pain relief.
 
null24
#3 Posted : 1/10/2019 4:40:26 PM

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Condolences on your loss, it sounds like you cared for and loved them very much.

If the choice was there, the conversations had occurred and the consent made and given of course I'd rather support the passing of a loved one at home.

In the last five years, several of the closest people to me havedied, each one in circumstances that would not have allowed such a thing however. A choking accident, an OD, massive stroke while in hospital for pneumonia, and in the case of my mother there was no home to go to; she had lived in a nursing home for her serious health issues for the decade up to her death while my father lived at home.

I've held a fear of hospitals and if under the graces of the universe someone loves me at that point and the means exist I'd so much prefer to die at home...

And as for those conversations, they are important! In the case of the friend who choked, she and i discussed our wishes thoroughly and i was designated as the person to call if she waa hospitalized as a decision maker and knew that the decision to end life support was beyond doubt the correct one. Without that knowledge, i don't know if i could have told them to pull the plug and those consequences may have not been her wish.
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
*γνῶθι σεαυτόν*
the practical tripper
The American Ascetic Blues

 
leratiomyces
#4 Posted : 1/10/2019 7:17:22 PM
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Sorry for your loss camponotus.
They lived to a good age.
Soon after the passing of a loved one, it is normal to second guess, or question decisions you have made with regard to their care in their final moments. It is in our nature to do so. I have done this and so have my family memebers.

With regard to your question, my opinion is yes, absolutely yes. If a family member was considered palliative, then I would try my best to have them at home as much as possible, reserving a hospital visit only for treatment that was going to make a real difference to their quality of existence.

Where I am from, palliative services will heavily assist you to keep the person at home, with support services if needed. Family members and community nurses take the role of administering medication, as needed.

This decision becomes tricky when it is not clear if the person is considered palliative. I have observed many family arguments on treatment decisions (such as the one you have mentioned) when one family memebers belives their relative is palliative, whilst another believes there is still hope for substantial recovery.

The end of life usually poses many difficulties for family members.
 
Grey Fox
#5 Posted : 1/10/2019 8:00:12 PM

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I once had a close family member pass away at home. She was dying from cancer and had been under hospice care so we all knew it was coming. She wanted to die at home. There were 3 of us there with her when she died. We were her closest family.

Her death was more peaceful and comfortable because she died at home. But her husband had to sell the house a year later because it was very difficult for him to continue living there. Everyday he was reminded of her death because it happened in the living room. That sort of thing is something to consider too.
 
Camponotus
#6 Posted : 1/10/2019 8:33:43 PM

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dragonrider wrote:
Sometimes you're just not given that choice

null24 wrote:
I've held a fear of hospitals and if under the graces of the universe someone loves me at that point and the means exist I'd so much prefer to die at home...

leratiomyces wrote:
This decision becomes tricky when it is not clear if the person is considered palliative. I have observed many family arguments on treatment decisions (such as the one you have mentioned) when one family memebers belives their relative is palliative, whilst another believes there is still hope for substantial recovery.


Thanks to you guys for your honesty and empathic writings!
I'm sorry for the people you lost in somehow tragic ways and your sufferings and doubts of having no influence, hands tied but I can feel you cared very much about them and tried just as me to do the right thing!
I don't want to blame anyone by that topic, it shouldn't point to a question of guilt but more to a hypothetical and ethical question many of us will maybe have to face one day! And probably there is no right or wrong but maybe something like more correct and more false IF someone has the opportunity to decide, which unfortunately not everyone of us is given or burden!

The point is that both had a 24 hour care, on maternal side my grandfather was moving mountains and learned to cook and clean and wash and supply himself at an age of 78, was very funny to see, how helpless some one who worked his whole life day and night is over challenged with a little household Embarrased Rolling eyes glad I had learned this earlier! isn't easy anyway honestly!
Paternal side was laying money aside for children and grandchildren the last 20 years or so and we decided to use this money for a carer, which lived with my gran in the house and could provide "full time" caring beside our nearly daily visiting!

I don't live at home anymore so I had not the possibility to see them as often as my parents and uncles/ aunts but I'll probably have to assume this responsibility for my parents some day and I question myself, whether I would focus on letting go when the time comes( and IMHO I think with every human being you have known your whole life and have lived with them and felt their deterioration which are in an age where thing happen as they happen ) you KNOW when the time is there,
instead of clinging to my personal pain and pass them along like a hot cup of water (rough metaphor, sorry has nothing besides at hand by now) and may deny their wish of passing in a familiar setting (this includes maybe somehow 2-3 hard days of unknowing and trembling)!
Which is an often times happening case when there are more children or family members which won't face up dying or loss and going the " hope dies last" route... in my eyes a bit selfish... but I don't know Sad

Because I think everyone wishes to die like this and not in a fucked up cold and sterile white room with a tv and shit...

My grandfather had the "luck to die healthy" at the age of 89 in his bedroom and we were all there when he died, in the same room, it was something beautiful and tragic the same way and I think it MAKES A DIFFERENCE!

all of the above under the given fact that no suffering from pain is included and pain killers and other things were at hand, or infused already, so incredible suffering or negligent actions are excluded to let's say about 99%
It's the job that's never started as takes longest to finish. - J.R.R. Tolkien

How long will this last, this delicious feeling of being alive, of having penetrated the veil which hides beauty and the wonders of celestial vistas? It doesn't matter, as there can be nothing but gratitude for even a glimpse of what exists for those who can become open to it. - Alexander Shulgin
 
Intezam
#7 Posted : 1/11/2019 11:59:57 PM

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We believe opiates and artificially induced coma perhaps may interfere with aspects of the death, dream and living process in that they cloud the actual certainty of the ground (yaqeen) unless perhaps, 0ne(1) was so much absorbed in the practice that 0ne(1) had perhaps always seen this ground luminosity with clean, clear certainty and clarity all the time, during wake state, during, tripping, dreaming, deep sleep, orgasm (agony), sneezure, seizure, the terrors of pain and extreme boredom ....then perhaps it wouldn't matter.....but this is an example that we are
not in charge ...unless we work hard.
 
 
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