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xrrv
#21 Posted : 1/5/2019 9:35:08 PM

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Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
xrrv
#22 Posted : 1/5/2019 10:07:04 PM

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DreadedShaman
#23 Posted : 1/5/2019 11:22:28 PM

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xrrv wrote:
DreadedShaman wrote:

All I'm saying is to me duality implies a boundary, a gradient doesn't have a boundary. I'm basing this simply off your description, not your skills at shading a circle Razz


Can there be a gradient and duality at the same time?
Why does duality necessarily need a boundary?



Because, as I see things, as soon as there is a gradient, it is either a signularity or a multitude. Duality says that there are to sides, left-right, black-white.

With a gradient there is always grey, which is niether black nor white, but somewhere in the middle

Duality is too much of an absolute to me to be honest. And remember, only a sith seals in absolutes.
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xss27
#24 Posted : 1/5/2019 11:37:23 PM

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xrrv wrote:
You are correct. I have a solipsistic world view. When I had this out of body experience I experienced extreme loneliness as well. Ever felt that loneliness? It is not an idea anymore in which I invest myself in. I am convinced it is so. I see others as myself, in reality. Knowing that there is so much suffering in the universe and going through it all alone is terrible. Very hard to accept that. Ecspecially terrible is it not knowing how far this is away from me. Where am I? I know what I am but I do not know where I am. Can you relate?


It sounds like you've had a bit of a traumatic OBE experience or are having some difficulty reconciling your feelings and realizations from that experience. Give yourself some time to cool off - try grounding yourself back here in the mundane. Then once you've levelled off then go back and contemplate these things; I think you're trying too hard to convey something you felt/experienced through relative concepts too quickly.

I know what you're referring to with the loneliness. When you realize without doubt that none of this is real, yourself as you knew yourself included, it can be very traumatic. But it will pass. And so will your conception of suffering - you'll come to see that it doesn't matter in the end.

Maybe read some non-dualism literature. Maharshi, Nisargadatta etc. But rest first.

 
xrrv
#25 Posted : 1/6/2019 9:46:08 AM

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xrrv
#26 Posted : 1/8/2019 6:21:19 PM

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Beatriz
#27 Posted : 1/9/2019 1:32:49 AM

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Certainty and wisdom are inversely proportional.

There's a vast, fractal supply of complexity in the universe. You're unlikely to run out of new things, no matter how complete the picture that a vision may present to you.

Is the human mind equivalent to God? We're one way for the universe to know itself, but not the only way. Nobody worships us, and our powers are limited to one world in one cosmic domain. There are probably many beings with more power and understanding who would nonetheless avoid calling themselves gods.

Don't fall prey to the hubris of so many mystics who have experienced mind-shattering visions. You aren't the first person to have an intense experience and declare himself god. You're lucky the Inquisition isn't still around, or they would already be calling for your head.

Don't overestimate the importance of human experience to the universe as a whole. It's not half heaven or half hell. Most of the cosmos doesn't give a rat's ass about your emotions, and simply exists.

Shun hubris, young padawan.
 
Asher7
#28 Posted : 1/9/2019 3:53:22 AM

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Hey there xrrv Cool

This thread actually hits home with recent events in my life. I’m kind of “manic” I guess you would say with my concern about death or something horrible happening. Usually it’s present but not in the forefront, other times it’s the focal point, other times I forget for a little while and it slips my mind. I’ve decided to use it as a tool, so I’ll be the dd or whatever. Sort of Mother Hen my flock you know?

I don’t trip much. In the early days without concern I had great profound trips. Now I have these panic attack inducing “realizations” that I keep forgetting and remembering over and over. How did I end up here, in a universal torture chamber where everyone goes to the slaughter mills and along the way beaten and abused in forms and fashions no sane person could even dream it up? We’re all in it, we could be trapped in a car and burned alive. What’s the chances of that and then what’s the chances I know two people it personally happened too on separate occasions about 10 miles apart? So it must happen frighteningly often... imagine a real salvia nightmare where you actually didn’t take a drug. So yeah, when I start freaking out I usually get in the shower and sit down in the dark.

You want to know where and when you are? Here and now. Will you go? Yeah. When? Eventually now. It’s by faith you make it so I hope you have some sort of back up because it really is hell out there. The beauty comes when you have that faith enough to just let go. I was having a hard time and decided to go to church so to speak and had myself a handful of mushrooms. With all that comes from that aside I walked away from that with a well timed message through “intuition” that inside the bubble of existence there is nowhere you can become lost because it all is the creator, and life is a part of the creation which is no minute detail to skip over in your assessment of where and when we are. You know how you get those peak of the trip revelations? Mine was to just relax and don’t blow a gasket, this “presence” has always been present even during times we weren’t and forgot about what we actually know to be true.

That’s what my higher power told me. Now the scary part is to consider what if my higher power is some mushrooms getting me stoned and acting a fool, and we’re trapped on a sick carnival ride down death row and it’s no holds barred. One of those is gonna be shown to be correct sooner or later.
 
xrrv
#29 Posted : 1/9/2019 11:46:02 AM

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PsyDuckmonkey
#30 Posted : 1/9/2019 4:09:32 PM

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What I was also formerly implying, and you apparently are still not getting, is that assuming that your experience (call it 'vision', 'knowledge', 'certainty', or whatever else you want to call it) is absolute and infallible, IS hubris.

Why should anyone prove that the universe does not repeat, given that you're not doing a very good of proving that it does repeat, either. We all believe things, may have experiences that leave us with a feeling of certainty. You're just one of us. Nobody beside you yourself has any reason to take your claims of certainty and absolute knowledge for anything other than a madman's ravings, especially since there's an old adage that the definition of insanity is the complete absence of doubt. Your state of mind certainly seems to match the description.

Besides, if you were blessed with total knowledge, what use do you have for the input of others? You pretend to expect others to help you out, but all you do when communicated to is put down those talking to you from a high horse, and pretend that everyone other than you is misguided or idiotic.

Also, the experience you described is what many, including me, have already had, and then moved on from. I know the place you were. It is currently my conviction, after so many other experiences, that it's a very limited view. Kinda like, when your eyes are closed, you only see darkness and weird blobs. Going around telling people what the world is like, based on what you saw with your eyes closed, and then insulting and talking down to people who have actually looked around with eyes open, multiple times, is rather unwise and deplorable.

Personally I am no longer in the business of convincing others of questions of cosmology. It is a lot of work, quite pointless, and often hurtful. So I'm quite okay with you having perfect certainty that you've 'got it', that you've 'seen it all'. However, your attitude is directly in violation of Nexus rules, and kinda toxic. So please try to get off the high horse, and stop preaching.
Do you believe in the THIRD SUMMER OF LOVE?
 
RoundAbout
#31 Posted : 1/9/2019 5:09:14 PM

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PsyDuckmonkey wrote:
What I was also formerly implying, and you apparently are still not getting, is that assuming that your experience (call it 'vision', 'knowledge', 'certainty', or whatever else you want to call it) is absolute and infallible, IS hubris.


Yes, many people have had experiences where they felt the absolute truth is revealed to them and, strangely enough, these penultimate truths and grand models of the universe seem to be very different in the details. In my opinion, labeling the experience as an epiphany and swallowing it whole while sober is not useful. In my experience, these extremely general realizations don't contain any testable hypotheses, and my "glimpses behind the curtain" somehow haven't conferred any additional understanding about the universe. They only seem to if I slavishly attach myself to the vision, put on blinders, and only view the world through that paradigm; chasing the deceptions of confirmation bias and seeking non-existent information.

I want to delete this paragraph; I write as though I know something about this topic with certainty, which I don't. Why do you not have similar compulsions, xrrv, and why is your absolute truth the one presented and discussed in the forum, unlike the many others confined to trip reports?
 
xrrv
#32 Posted : 1/9/2019 5:37:37 PM

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xrrv
#33 Posted : 1/9/2019 5:38:46 PM

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Asher7
#34 Posted : 1/9/2019 6:26:17 PM

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I’m not sure I’m correctly picturing your timeline of these euphorias and hells. Are they like random beats or do they fall into a pattern?

When talking about religion, one aspect of there not being a God trips me out. If there is none and this is chaos, that means we can be reincarnated as anything, not just in the universe but, any possibility. Blobfish on the ocean. All of this is completely random and life (you) are suject without mercy forever.

Is that what you mean by repeating hells? You want to know where you are, that implies some sort of layout or even pattern. How does that look when you visualize it? I’m trying to picture the “stage” or kinda storyboard the layout so I can better see what you’re saying.
 
dragonrider
#35 Posted : 1/9/2019 6:31:08 PM

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xrrv wrote:
dragonrider wrote:
You say we don't have free will. But what exactly, would free will be, if it would exist?

I personally find this predeterminism vs free will issue, pretty confusing.

Say you wanted to prove that free will exists...what should such a proof look like?
Could on the other hand you disprove the existence of it, without knowing yet, what exactly constitutes the experience of free will?


Free will would require the existence of infinite ideas. Such a thing does not exist.

Infinite time plus limited content means no free will. It has never been any different.

Is that the only way for us to be free? To have infinite possibilities?

And what if there would be a theoretically infinite set of finite possibilities?
 
xss27
#36 Posted : 1/9/2019 7:52:21 PM

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xrrv wrote:
xss27, how do you handle the possibility that eternal hell is slowly approaching or might actually be closer than you might think. I do not want to scare you. Sorry if I do so, but I am just interested if this scenario ever came to your mind and how you handle such thoughts.


I don't place much stock in the idea of heaven and hell. There may be bardos or other dimensions that could have elements of the heaven and hell concept, but an outright eternal hell.. even if there were a hell it would not be eternal.

Nisargadattas work, or any of the other enlightened persons, is not going to answer your question the way you demand it be answered. It is all about trying to show you what you are not. Besides, location is relative - you, the subject, and ultimately the Absolute, are nowhere. There is nothing beside it so it can't be anywhere as there's nothing relative to it.. it is effectively dimensionless.

You're clinging to this idea of 'where you are' too much, or some part of you is. Ask yourself why.
 
xrrv
#37 Posted : 1/10/2019 9:41:31 AM

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DmnStr8
#38 Posted : 1/10/2019 1:49:46 PM

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xrrv, would you say you have faith in all you are describing?

Sure everything has balance. I think that is something we can all jive with. Science points to this. Nature points to this. As for the rest, isn't it all just belief and faith.

I mean you can have enlightening experiences in your life that convince you that you found something worth sharing, like you found a piece of enlightenment. Do you really think that you can give this to someone else? In the end isn't everything you are saying been said before?

I feel putting that enlightenment to practice is where the rubber meets the road. Where the need to say it no longer matters because the squeeling of the tires drown out the noise. The ego takes a back seat and now the rest goes forward practicing and applying these personal truths and enlightenments.

It is like we have a need to believe in something and share it with everyone else. I wish I could share some of my memories in life in a way that you all could really see it, feel it, experience it. I wish I could share these time in my life when I feel like I have found something of true value. I can describe and articulate my memories and experiences down to the finest detail, No one is going to ever really have that experience. It is mine and mine alone. I can share with language. It then becomes limited and tainted with descriptions and breakdowns. Divided as soon as a word is muttered.


“Tell people there's an invisible man in the sky who created the universe, and the vast majority will believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure.”
― George Carlin



xrrv wrote:
I am deeply afraid of being in eternal hell someday. I am afraid of the abyss in the universe. I do not want to find myself in a situation of intense suffering which I cannot escape because of predetermination. I want this abyss to be as far away as possible. Of course, I cannot have that if it is not so. That is why I want to know: "Where am I?". Do you have any idea how I can cope with that? If I could just look and find out...


Maybe you are already in the eternal hell? You are already experiencing it because it is already here and now you are becoming aware. Maybe you have been in it for a very long time and only now are waking up to it. This abyss is something you are already in. Falling... falling.. falling... Where are you? Falling into an enternal hell! Place yourself here first. Then learn to fly and heaven appears, the abyss and hell are but a memory, until once again you forget and fall back into another dream.
"In the universe there is an immeasurable, indescribable force which shamans call intent, and absolutely everything that exists in the entire cosmos is attached to intent by a connecting link." ~Carlos Castaneda
 
dragonrider
#39 Posted : 1/10/2019 3:02:00 PM

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You say we cannot be free because of limited content. But if that is true, we even couldn't be free if our possibilities where infinite. Because if only our possibilities would be endless, we still wouldn't know each and everyone of them. Because that would require some kind of list or inventory of it, wich would contradict the idea of it being infinite.

So either the very word "freedom" refers to something that could not exist, ever, or you are using a very narrow interpretation of the word.
 
downwardsfromzero
#40 Posted : 1/10/2019 3:06:56 PM

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In my day-to-day life, beauty and horror exist side by side and the bliss of my existence is harshly tempered by the constant physical pain I live with. Given the circumstances, I could choose to slide into a hell of my own making - in the sense that it is my perceptions that create my reality. I've tried this before and if there's one piece of advice I'd give it's that the only value of this path is in learning not to do it.

Heaven and hell are both here and now - which would you rather choose?

xrrv wrote:
I believe there is a misunderstanding between "eternal" and "infinite".

definition of "eternal":
A very long time period which eventually ends.

definition of "infinite":
A time period which never ends. For example: time is infinite.

Your understanding of "eternal" appears to be a little wide of the mark. As I have gathered, its true sense is that of being outside of time entirely.

As you probably appreciate, "infinite" is not reserved for time measurement; nor is it something that the limited human mind can ever truly grasp. At this point I would urge you to seek out "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" by Douglas Adams. And above all else, just be kind to yourself.
Over here tregar quotes Eckhart Tolle rather nicely, click the link and have a read.

Quote:
[...]
ECKHART: That's right. Most people are not aware that they have a little man or woman in their head that keeps talking and talking and whom they are completely identified with. In my case, and in many people's cases, the voice in the head is a predominantly unhappy one, so there's an enormous amount of negativity that is continuously generated by this unconscious internal dialogue.
[...]
ECKHART: I see it as not believing in this or that, but as stepping out of identification with a stream of thinking. You suddenly find there's another dimension deeper than thought inside you.
[...]


Also, what DmnStr8 says Love
Ora, lege, lege, lege, relege et labora

“To be GOVERNED is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be GOVERNED is to be at every operation, at every transaction noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be place under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonored. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality."
― Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
 
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