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Post Your Mescaline Extraction Results Options
 
antichode
#61 Posted : 1/30/2017 8:54:24 PM

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Not quite at the results end of it all just yet but there is something big brewing.... It all blended down to 35L which when slaked!

antichode attached the following image(s):
OEEC4607.jpg (205kb) downloaded 894 time(s).
 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
antichode
#62 Posted : 2/2/2017 3:41:49 AM

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Not sure how much is there but this is just the collected saltings left at ambient temperature for about 6 hours. It was 150ml of liquid (just water no acetone) so to see precipitation like this means it was very concentrated, into the fridge she goes....
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starway6
#63 Posted : 2/7/2017 8:16:51 PM

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Kash wrote:
Thought I would share... recent extraction of 935mg m.fumarate recrystallized in acetone/IPA from 100g pedro powder nice pure white crystals. Super potent Pleased



Very good looking product!Thumbs up

Ive never tryed fairly pure mescaline crystals.. but always wanted to..

I love mescaline if it were not for the heavy body load that comes with eating dried mescaline cacti or from a crude tea,,

Ive tryed several times in past to produce crystals but was afraid to try them because i suspicioned my product might contain lye crystals as it seemed to burn my tounge ..and the crystals were so white and perfect and the amount of crystals made me suspicious of posible lye contamination?

I was using ...san pedro macho...a strain that was very close to torch cacti...

I did ingest about 6 grams of dryed green inner flesh. and it was very active!.. and was great with music ..as the music blended well with my aility to feel hear and taste colors that danced behind my closed eyes!

Too bad i was never shure enough about the purity of the crystals i produced.. making me worry that they were lye crystals and ending up disposing of them..

I tryed my extractions about 4 years ago using the.. gallon jug ..exyline..and lye method...then pulling from an acidic water using citric acid as an acid..

I find dealing with all the ..[cactus snot]... a real pain as well as the smelly exylene ...

I read about an on line method called..the poor mans teck] for extracting mescaline crystals using a safer ..[citric acid] for a mescaline citrate...which involved capturing the crystals from freezer at the point that they were starting to fall out on bottom and sides of glass using a pipette to remove them from the acidic water before the water froze compleatly..

question... Was the crystal mescaline experiance more clean with almost no body load compared to a crude tea experiance with strong body load??
 
starway6
#64 Posted : 2/7/2017 8:29:58 PM

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This is the method i used a few years back to extract mescaline crystals...

I guess this method is out dated??/?

Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate - The Psychedelic Experience ...
https://www.shroomery.or...wflat.php/Number/7875294
20 posts - ‎6 authors
Easy Three-Step Mescaline Citrate Materials needed: 1) Peruvian torch or San Pedro cactus powder 2) Lye (use gloves and ventilation) 3) Xylene (use gloves ...
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#65 Posted : 2/10/2017 7:04:08 PM
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There are several methods, each with their own sets of advantages and disadvantages. Generally I will use a variation of THIS technical work-up, but depending on my goals I may use other methods.

"A Laboratory History of Narcotics Vol 1" by Jared Ledgard has some great mescaline extraction work-ups, as well as mescaline synthesis work-ups, the book also includes basics on organic chemistry and diagrams of glassware, lab equipment, and various arrangements of said equipment for various procedures. If you have organic chemistry education this book will still hold your interest, it's not so patronizing that's it's unreadable, yet, at the same time, an individual with very little chemical education could probably use this book to successfully preform every extraction or synthesis which it outlines...I highly recommend it.

Forming the citrate salt has its advantages and disadvantages...

Quote:
If using citric acid (which is the recommended choice), prepare a solution of citric acid powder with a small amount of water. I recommend using citric acid because unlike hydrochloric acid, it is food-safe and safe to handle, and unlike either hydrochloric acid or vinegar, it is available in pure form. I have been told that using hydrochloric or acetic acid has the advantage that both are volatile and that excess will evaporate off, unlike citric acid. However, since neither are easily available in pure form, it is still probably better to use citric acid. Beware that if you do use hydrochloric acid and let it evaporate, the fumes can be hazardous and the evaporation should not be done where you might breathe in the vapors.
https://erowid.org/archi...escaline.extraction.html


Every salt has its own dose range as well...

As your deprotonated base becomes a conjugate acid it gains weight as it accepts the hydrogen ion, so, basically as you react the mescaline freebase with an acid to form a salt, you must compensate for the weight change that occurs as well...

Mescaline free base = Exact Mass: 211.121 g/mol

Citric acid = 192.12 g/mol
H2s04 = 98.079 g/mol
HCL = 36.458 g/mol

98.079 + 211.261 = 309.34 g/mol mescaline sulfate

211.261 + 36.458 = 247.719 g/mol = Mescaline hydrochloride

This makes the sulfate 11% heavier than the hydrochloride, which really is not that big of a difference, but still must be taken into account when weighing out doses, so, you would need 11% more of the sulfate than you would of the hydrochloride...

from this perspective it's the hydrochloride salt which would be the most desirable, though as long as one understands that the dose must be adjusted to compensate for this, I suppose that ultimately it really doesn't matter, as you would still be getting the same amount of mescaline provided you compensate in dose for the weight change...

-eg
 
Mindlusion
#66 Posted : 2/10/2017 7:46:58 PM

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entheogenic-gnosis wrote:


As your deprotonated base becomes a conjugate acid it gains weight as it accepts the hydrogen ion, so, basically as you react the mescaline freebase with an acid to form a salt, you must compensate for the weight change that occurs as well...

Mescaline free base = Exact Mass: 211.121 g/mol

Citric acid = 192.12 g/mol
H2s04 = 98.079 g/mol
HCL = 36.458 g/mol

98.079 + 211.261 = 309.34 g/mol mescaline sulfate

211.261 + 36.458 = 247.719 g/mol = Mescaline hydrochloride

This makes the sulfate 11% heavier than the hydrochloride, which really is not that big of a difference, but still must be taken into account when weighing out doses, so, you would need 11% more of the sulfate than you would of the hydrochloride...

from this perspective it's the hydrochloride salt which would be the most desirable, though as long as one understands that the dose must be adjusted to compensate for this, I suppose that ultimately it really doesn't matter, as you would still be getting the same amount of mescaline provided you compensate in dose for the weight change...

-eg


This isn't actually correct,

citric acid is triprotic
h2so4 is diprotic
hcl is monoprotic.

your calculations are correct for HCl, not the others.
0.5M worth of H2SO4 will neutralize 1M eq of mescaline freebase, i've tested this myself.
Citric acid might not completely deprotonate, but my bet is it probably mostly does, mesc is a strong base.

so for example, mesc sulfate = 211*2 + 98 = 520g/mol

1mol mesc sulfate = 2mol mesc freebase

10g of mesc sulfate = 10g/520g/mol * 2

.038mol*211g/mol = 8.12g freebase

compare to 10g mesc HCl = 8.52g freebase

Sulfate 23% heavier than freebase
HCl 17% greater than freebase

only 5% difference
Expect nothing, Receive everything.
"Experiment and extrapolation is the only means the organic chemists (humans) currrently have - in contrast to "God" (and possibly R. B. Woodward). "
He alone sees truly who sees the Absolute the same in every creature...seeing the same Absolute everywhere, he does not harm himself or others. - The Bhagavad Gita
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entheogenic-gnosis
#67 Posted : 2/10/2017 8:16:42 PM
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Mindlusion wrote:
entheogenic-gnosis wrote:


As your deprotonated base becomes a conjugate acid it gains weight as it accepts the hydrogen ion, so, basically as you react the mescaline freebase with an acid to form a salt, you must compensate for the weight change that occurs as well...

Mescaline free base = Exact Mass: 211.121 g/mol

Citric acid = 192.12 g/mol
H2s04 = 98.079 g/mol
HCL = 36.458 g/mol

98.079 + 211.261 = 309.34 g/mol mescaline sulfate

211.261 + 36.458 = 247.719 g/mol = Mescaline hydrochloride

This makes the sulfate 11% heavier than the hydrochloride, which really is not that big of a difference, but still must be taken into account when weighing out doses, so, you would need 11% more of the sulfate than you would of the hydrochloride...

from this perspective it's the hydrochloride salt which would be the most desirable, though as long as one understands that the dose must be adjusted to compensate for this, I suppose that ultimately it really doesn't matter, as you would still be getting the same amount of mescaline provided you compensate in dose for the weight change...

-eg


This isn't actually correct,

citric acid is triprotic
h2so4 is diprotic
hcl is monoprotic.

your calculations are correct for HCl, not the others.
0.5M worth of H2SO4 will neutralize 1M eq of mescaline freebase, i've tested this myself.
Citric acid might not completely deprotonate, but my bet is it probably mostly does, mesc is a strong base.

so for example, mesc sulfate = 211*2 + 98 = 520g/mol

2Mol mesc sulfate = 1mol mesc freebase

10g of mesc sulfate = 10g/520g/mol * 2

.038mol*211g/mol = 8.12g freebase

compare to 10g mesc HCl = 8.52g freebase

Sulfate 23% heavier than freebase
HCl 17% greater than freebase

only 5% difference


Quote:
178 mg mescaline HCl = 200 mg mescaline sulfate. -erowid


Quote:


100 mg mesc sulfate = 89.0 mg mesc hydrochloride = 75.9 mg mesc freebase

So, with the two salt forms, there's only about an 11% difference. If
someone gets confused between one and the other, the mix-up is not
going to cause major havoc.

https://erowid.org/chemi...scaline_chemistry1.shtml


-eg
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#68 Posted : 2/10/2017 8:19:35 PM
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(This was supposed to be added to the last post but it slipped my mind)


Mindlusion wrote:
your calculations are correct for HCl, not the others.


I only calculated the hydrochloride and the sulfate.

-eg
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#69 Posted : 2/10/2017 8:24:23 PM
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pubchem wrote:
mescaline sulfate Molecular Weight: 309.333 g/mol
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm...-and-Physical-Properties


My calculation was 309.34 g/mol for mescaline sulfate...

Quote:
Sulfate: In the sulfate, there are two mescalines per H2SO4. To
complicate things slightly, the sulfate exists as the dihydrate,
meaning there are also two H20s per unit cell. You end up with:

(mesc)2.H2SO4.(H2O)2

mesc 2 * 211.261
H 6 * 1.008
S 1 * 32.068
O 6 * 15.999

556.632 grams per mole of (mesc)2.H2SO4.(H2O)2

But you want that in terms of one, not two, mesc molecules. So divide
by two:

278.316 grams per mole mesc sulfate [mesc.(H2SO4)1/2.H2O]
https://erowid.org/chemi...scaline_chemistry1.shtml



this erowid link places the sulfate salt at 278.316

So it's including 2 H20 molecules before it divides by 2....

Ok, hold up, I have go over this again real quick...

-eg
 
Mindlusion
#70 Posted : 2/10/2017 11:11:57 PM

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My mistake, I forgot to include the two water molecules in the sulfate salt.

278g/mol is the correct mass corresponding to 1mol eq of mesc freebase

so i get a 32% weight greater than freebase, making mescaline sulfate dihydrate 15% heavier than HCl.
Mind you, citing erowid is not word of god. Its written by drug enthusiasts, not in a peer reviewed journal. And Shulgin made a lot of mistakes, perhaps he obtained those numbers experimentally, with partially hydrated salts? Seems unlikely though since he mentions the re-x in water. Somethings weird. My bet is that its just another simple error.

Makes me wonder though , if my sulfates are anhydrous instead of dihydrate... I salted them from dry DCM with 50:50 Conc h2so4 and anhydrous IPA.. There is no available water.. They do seem pretty potent hehe, and like i mentioned, i titrated them with a known amount of h2so4, i know the precise weight of sulfate needed to neutralize..

32% w/w sulfate dihydrate gives 75.9mg freebase out of 100mg mescaline

so the mistake in these numbers appears to be with the HCl salt.
Quote:
100 mg mesc sulfate = 89.0 mg mesc hydrochloride = 75.9 mg mesc freebase


it reads 89.0mg, but it should read 85.3mg..

10g/247.7g/mol = 0.04mol
0.04*211.26=8.53g


Expect nothing, Receive everything.
"Experiment and extrapolation is the only means the organic chemists (humans) currrently have - in contrast to "God" (and possibly R. B. Woodward). "
He alone sees truly who sees the Absolute the same in every creature...seeing the same Absolute everywhere, he does not harm himself or others. - The Bhagavad Gita
"The most beautiful thing we can experience, is the mysterious. The source of all true art and science."
 
Chaska
#71 Posted : 2/13/2017 10:09:44 PM

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acetates from wild crafted pedro
1.5% from outer layer
~14g in image
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grow plants, make tea, love life
 
DansMaTete
#72 Posted : 3/29/2017 4:11:44 PM

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Test of individual potency give some "dirty" mescaline HCl :





After a fancy chemical relooking (thanks Kash), some mescaline fumarate :




« I love the smell of boiling MHRB in the morning »
 
blue.magic
#73 Posted : 6/29/2018 10:15:38 PM

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Result from an1cca's mescaline extraction notes.

1.66 grams.

Washed three times with anhydrous acetone. I will attempt recrystallization when having enough of it.
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DrSeltsam
#74 Posted : 7/4/2018 9:28:45 PM

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Nice work! It would be cool if you could try to reproduce https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=838501#post838501 so at some point we can put this on the wiki to conserve it there.
 
SkunK
#75 Posted : 10/16/2018 4:35:01 AM

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Super stoked! The Nexus has been so good to me! And I could spout off quite a few handles that have helped guide me in my journeys thanks to their hard work they have shared. But seeing as this is a cacti thread gotta give it up to Kash's A/B Tek! You have helped this Skunk get one step closer to my goal. One I've been chasing for many years and uve been able to accomplish this myself with the help of this wonderful community. Again thank you to everyone who helps people like me find our way.


I've got so many cact, I've grown from seed over the last 4 years. And its come that time to begin to see what kind of goods lie behind these spines. My plan is to pull extractions on each cacti I'm growing over the following months years etc to help me get an idea of what my collection contains in the way of alkaloids.

I'v spent countless hours scouring the Nexus soaking up everything I could get my fingers on. And Kash's A/B tek just kept pulling me back and back. So last week I decided to take down my 1st Cacti one I've grown from seed. It was a bitter sweet moment as I've grown quite attached to my collection.

Trichocereus SS02 "Bridgesii" x T.Juuls Giant

-2 foot section (tip & mid cutting)
1150 grams fresh chopped
Then I dried this out. Was a little disappointed because once dry it only netted me 43.6 grams Dry/powdered.

Once extracted it netted me 1.09 grams roughly 2.5% return of unwashed crystles.

I still plan to do the MEK cleanup just ran out of Time then other night. But so far I'm super stoked with the success I've had so far.


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The best time to sow a seed was 5 years ago.... the next best time is right now.
 
blue.magic
#76 Posted : 10/17/2018 2:26:06 AM

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Great results!

SkunK wrote:
I still plan to do the MEK cleanup just ran out of Time then other night. But so far I'm super stoked with the success I've had so far.


I would advice against the MEK cleanup. Your MEK and methanol must be anhydrous so you won't lose the product. There are better and more reliable methods using water and acetone or even just water, depending on the type of mescaline salt you have produced. You can also backsalt it if you really want mescaline fumarate.
 
pete666
#77 Posted : 10/17/2018 8:23:45 AM

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Nice
Cleanup is not as difficult. But blue.magic is right, water is an enemy!
Acceptance of the fact that our reality is not real doesn't in fact mean it is not real. It just leads to better understanding what real means.
 
SkunK
#78 Posted : 10/19/2018 6:33:07 AM

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blue.magic wrote:
Great results!

SkunK wrote:
I still plan to do the MEK cleanup just ran out of Time then other night. But so far I'm super stoked with the success I've had so far.


I would advice against the MEK cleanup. Your MEK and methanol must be anhydrous so you won't lose the product. There are better and more reliable methods using water and acetone or even just water, depending on the type of mescaline salt you have produced. You can also backsalt it if you really want mescaline fumarate.


Thanks for the replays guys and the advice.... So the MEK is old news and not suggest anymore?

My original plan was to use Epsom Salts baked in the oven then added to MEK to obsorbe the water then decant the MEK and use that to wash my meacaline HCL..... BUt if this still is not an acceptable approach; I'm not in any hurry, so I'll head back to forums this weekend and research some other techniques and find a new path for cleaning my extract. I just simply had all these supplies/Chems on hand for a recent fiberglass job on our boat and figured I could out then to use with my project.

The best time to sow a seed was 5 years ago.... the next best time is right now.
 
SkunK
#79 Posted : 10/19/2018 6:36:22 AM

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pete666 wrote:
Nice
Cleanup is not as difficult. But blue.magic is right, water is an enemy!


Thanks for the push in the right direction with the link. I'll have a read over this the weekend while I'm making more cacti tea.. I'm a new player trying to find my way in the world if extracts here at the nexus. Greatly appreciated!
The best time to sow a seed was 5 years ago.... the next best time is right now.
 
Kash
#80 Posted : 10/31/2018 4:39:32 AM

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blue.magic wrote:
Great results!

SkunK wrote:
I still plan to do the MEK cleanup just ran out of Time then other night. But so far I'm super stoked with the success I've had so far.


I would advice against the MEK cleanup. Your MEK and methanol must be anhydrous so you won't lose the product. There are better and more reliable methods using water and acetone or even just water, depending on the type of mescaline salt you have produced. You can also backsalt it if you really want mescaline fumarate.


I respectfully disagree 100%. While water is an issue with acetone, in all experimentation it is negligible with MEK, and gives the cleanest, driest product. Acetone works, but it WILL soak up product if you dont make it anhydrous, and tends to leave things more sticky even after.

Hope everything went well Skunk! Post your results if you finished. =)
--------------------------------------------------*Kash's LSA Extraction* * Kash's Mescaline Extraction*------------------------------------------------------
All things I say are complete and utter ramblings of nonsense. Do not consider taking anything iterated from the depths of my subconsciousness rationally and/or seriously.
 
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