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New to A/B extraction, combining zinc wash then treating like STB?? Options
 
5A8R3
#1 Posted : 8/18/2018 5:11:20 PM
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So, I have had good results in the past extracting with a STB method, however, I have let the xtals sit in improper conditions so they have oxidised.

Thusly I am planning to do my first Zinc wash with acetic acid and zinc, then basify and extract with naptha as I would do normally to a STB soup. Right?
https://www.shroomery.or...flat.php/Number/14985684

So, my real question is thinking of a new way to include this zinc wash. I have looked into AB teks but am a little confused and put off by the thought of having to boil this solution. I am wondering if someone with experience and/or knowledge could review my idea.

So far my idea is to soak powdered bark in distilled vinegar for 3 days (as suggested on other teks to avoid boiling) then add zinc and stir for a few hours. Then basify with lye or sodium carbonate (which is better?) to a ph of 10 and extract with naptha as a normal stb tek, freeze precipitate e.t.c.

One soup, no filtering, just mix all at right times and non-polar extraction.
This should work right?
 

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downwardsfromzero
#2 Posted : 8/18/2018 7:35:01 PM

Boundary condition

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This question has been covered before. The consensus is that there would be too many compounds that might react with the zinc, potentially leading to complications and/or undesirable by-products.

It's best to extract the alkaloid, then perform the reduction.

Of course, if you want to perform the experiment in parallel with a normal (A/B minus the zinc) extraction from the same batch of bark the data would be more useful than a bunch of (informed) speculation.




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
5A8R3
#3 Posted : 8/19/2018 9:14:53 AM
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Ok, I probabl will do that soon as the benefit if it yields would be great.

I guess I will also have to experiment to see what is best to basify the solution. Sodium Carbonate or Sodium Hydroxide, unless someone has further insight?
 
downwardsfromzero
#4 Posted : 8/19/2018 8:26:29 PM

Boundary condition

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Quote:
Sodium Carbonate or Sodium Hydroxide[...]?

What for, exactly? Look at the zinc reduction threads to see about relevant points with adding base to zinc solutions.




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
5A8R3
#5 Posted : 8/19/2018 11:30:29 PM
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Ok so through a search it doesn't seem Sodium Hydroxide would be an issue with zinc so it is curious why shroomery suggested otherwise.

In this case I have used Sodium Cabonate to obtain something around ph 10 wherupon this precipitate formed. I decanted the solution to separate out the zinc slug and after substantial naptha pulls I am still left with some white substance in the solution.

Is this dmt or excess sodium carbonate?
Could I filter out the solids and perform and naptha reX to isolate the dmt?

5A8R3 attached the following image(s):
IMG_20180819_232137.jpg (7,603kb) downloaded 77 time(s).
 
downwardsfromzero
#6 Posted : 8/20/2018 12:02:22 AM

Boundary condition

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It's zinc carbonate. Look into complexing the zinc back into solution with ammonia or ammonium chloride.




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
5A8R3
#7 Posted : 8/20/2018 12:28:57 AM
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Hmm, I am trying to search forum for this however I am getting database errors.

Could you elaborate why I would want to do this?
 
downwardsfromzero
#8 Posted : 8/20/2018 1:27:30 AM

Boundary condition

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So you don't have to deal with that powdery sludge. Puts the zinc back into solution even at high pH.




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
5A8R3
#9 Posted : 8/20/2018 11:40:03 AM
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Aha I see, although I don't see the benefit of this as long as the zinc carbonate isn't preventing the dmt from migrating to the naptha.

So if instead of sodium carbonate, I were to use sodium hydroxide to basify the zinc/acid/dmt solution, the zinc carbonate wouldn't form but instead I suppose another form of zinc that has taken the oxygen from the dmt oxide. So Zinc oxide would precipitate?

I am yet to freeze precipitate the naptha I have pulled so I don't know if it has worked yet haha. Sounds like it should have.

Thanks for your help by the way.
 
downwardsfromzero
#10 Posted : 8/20/2018 1:15:38 PM

Boundary condition

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(You're welcome^ Smile )

The powdery stuff increases the likelihood of emulsions forming, and we don't want that.

Sodium hydroxide initially causes zinc hydroxide to precipitate which then redissolves - forming sodium zincate - after an excess of sodium hydroxide has been added.
(For the sake of completeness, incidentally, the zinc carbonate precipitates as basic zinc carbonate, containing a certain amount of
hydroxide, as sodium carbonate is significantly hydrolysed:
Na2CO3 + H2O -> NaOH + NaHCO3 )

Details of using ammonia to keep the zinc in solution are found in the "Harmaline to THH reduction with zinc and vinegar works!" thread, IIRC. And of course because in that instance the precipitated alkaloids need to be free from solid zinc salts as they're not being extracted into a different solvent there's more incentive to keep the zinc in solution.

It sounds like you got your naphtha off cleanly so we'll be looking forward to seeing what comes out in the freeze precip. Thumbs up




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
5A8R3
#11 Posted : 8/22/2018 12:32:59 PM
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Great info.

So nice result although a little concerned with yield. 5.45g in and 0.5g out?
That is worrying.
Also some slag seems to have made its way in the form of those pellets.

With have to do some more pulls to see if there is more in there.

5A8R3 attached the following image(s):
IMG_20180822_123002.jpg (5,731kb) downloaded 46 time(s).
 
downwardsfromzero
#12 Posted : 8/23/2018 9:09:31 PM

Boundary condition

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Nice crystals, shame about the yield.

Some of your alkaloid might be complexed to that zinc sludge.

Another reason to get busy with ammonia!




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
 
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