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Why quidding salvia is so inefficient (and what you can do about it) Options
 
Zebbie
#1 Posted : 7/20/2018 5:04:33 PM

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Why quidding salvia is so inefficient (and what you can do about it)


A salvia quid is prepared by stacking fresh or hydrated dry leaves. The trichomes on the underside of the leaf are sandwiched between two leaves. When you chew a quid, some of the trichomes break off. But the broken off trichomes are trapped by the leaves above and below them!

The traditional way of quidding (biting once every 10 seconds) is designed to keep the quid intact, making spitting out easier. The slow chewing means that very few trichomes are broken off. Some of these trichomes eventually work their way out from between the leaves and into the saliva.

The leisurely release of salvinorin A results in a slow onset and a weak high.

The solution is to break off the trichomes, rupture them, and smear the salvinorin rich resin over a large surface area of finely powdered leaf. Instead of chew and spit, I use a swish and swallow technique!


This is what I do:

I weigh out crushed dried salvia leaf, typically 0.8 grams. I put it into a mortar and pestle, and grind it for a minute. This results in a coarse dry powder. Then I add 2 drops of glycerin and 3 drops of vinegar, and continue grinding to a fine, damp powder.

Reason for glycerin: Glycerin is a humectant. It is used in things like toothpaste and fondant icing to prevent drying out. The glycerin turns the dry, dusty powder into a damp powder. Glycerin makes the powder easier to handle, and more pleasant to put into your mouth.

Reason for vinegar: The vinegar makes your saliva mildly acidic. This reduces hydrolysis of salvinorin A. Citric and tartaric acids work as well, but they are difficult to dose. In my experience, they also lead to excess salivation.

Esters like salvinorin A are less stable under mildly alkaline than mildly acidic conditions. Toothpaste is usually buffered alkaline, to reduce erosion of tooth enamel. So if you have just brushed your mouth with toothpaste, chances are that your mouth will have the wrong pH for preserving salvinorin A.


To use:

I transfer the powder from the mortar onto a large tablespoon. I use the tablespoon to put the powder into my mouth. The powder combines with saliva to form a stiff paste. I spread the paste around the inside of my mouth with my tongue. As the saliva builds up, I swish the fluid around my mouth, to refresh contact between the mucous membranes and salvinorin particles. When my mouth goes numb, and I cannot feel my tongue anymore, I know it is time to swallow.


Features and benefits:

1. The powder is significantly more active than the equivalent amount of whole leaf. So it is a very economical way of consuming salvia.

2. The onset is much faster, because all the salvinorin is available immediately.

3. The effects are more intense. A small amount of salvinorin is spread over a large surface area, allowing rapid buildup of salvinorin in the blood.

4. It is not as bitter as a quid, because I need less leaf in powder form to achieve the same effects.

5. Instead of spitting out chewed up leaf, I just swallow. Swallowing this thin paste is much easier than swallowing chewed up leaf.

**********************


I would like to add some photos of the grinding process, and the appearance of the powder at various stages of the process. I tried adding photos via the "Insert Image" button, without success. Could someone please help me?

Update: I have managed to add photos, but would like to re-size them and add captions.

Zebbie attached the following image(s):
01. Apparatus.jpg (253kb) downloaded 274 time(s).
03. Before grinding.jpg (318kb) downloaded 272 time(s).
04. Coarse dry powder.jpg (363kb) downloaded 272 time(s).
05. Coarse damp powder.jpg (353kb) downloaded 272 time(s).
06. Fine damp powder.jpg (347kb) downloaded 272 time(s).
07. Scraping the mortar.jpg (301kb) downloaded 273 time(s).
08. Ready for tripping.jpg (208kb) downloaded 272 time(s).
 

with a seemingly autonomous entity after taking DMT?
 
null24
#2 Posted : 7/20/2018 5:43:57 PM

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First thanks for this. I've been wanting badly to explore salvia space with this method but don't have current access to fresh leaf

. On the hydrated leaf- you seem knowledgeable. I have access to packaged dry leaf but don't know when it was packaged. It appears in vacuum seal/foil/plastic bags like the kind used in cannabis dispensaries if you're familiar. A friend experimented to no effect but i don't think he rehydrated and he may have smoked it, idr.

If these leaves are hydrated should they work? How old is too old?
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
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Zebbie
#3 Posted : 7/20/2018 6:45:39 PM

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The general consensus is that dry salvia leaves are extremely stable (like decades!) provided they are kept in the dark. I don't know whether this applies to my powder, because the salvinorin is no longer within the trichomes.

I prepare my powder a few minutes before I use it. But in the interests of science, I have set aside some powder for long term storage stability tests!
 
Jees
#4 Posted : 7/20/2018 7:05:00 PM

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Thank you very much Zebbie Thumbs up


Disclaimer: all my posts are fiction.
 
Doc Buxin
#5 Posted : 7/20/2018 7:19:17 PM

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This is brilliant Zebbie!

Thank you for sharing something so educational, interesting & eminently useful! I, for one, really appreciate your time, effort and consideration.

I have quidded fresh S. divinorum leaves many times back when I used to grow a couple plants on my back porch. It was quite a pleasurable experience for me to use Mama Divinorum in such a mellow way versus when I'd smoke the dried leaves and it would usually end up being pretty intense.

However, this technique of quidding that you've presented here for us is quite well thought-out and you put the presentation of it together very nicely I might add (despite your stated troubles with the "insert image" button; no worries, I've had plenty of trouble with that before, lol~)

Thanks again & keep up the good work!


null24 wrote:
...How old is too old?


Null, I've had crudely crushed (not powdered), dried S. divinorum leaf in my Sacred Stashbox for decades (it's been at least 20 years since I had my last plant of this magnificent species), pulled it out one day, decided to give it a trial just for the heck of it (I was simply in the mood for Salvia Space & honestly didn't think it would work because of its age)...It blasted me into an at-least-5-dimensional, conscious train on "physically impossible" mazes of track!!!Shocked

Needless to say, I received my S. divinorum "fix" from Mama Salvia that day and learned that 20 year old crushed leaf could still be way active after all that time! And I decided to put the little bit I had left back in my stash and left it for another time! I was originally going to throw it away in the trash! Laughing Wut? Very happy


Freedom's so hard
When we are all bound by laws
Etched in the scheme of nature's own hand
Unseen by all those who fail
In their pursuit of fate
 
null24
#6 Posted : 7/21/2018 5:49:55 PM

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Quote:
Null, I've had crudely crushed (not powdered), dried S. divinorum leaf in my Sacred Stashbox for decades (it's been at least 20 years

Quote:
The general consensus is that dry salvia leaves are extremely stable (like decades!) provided they are kept in the dark


So it sounds like darkness is crucial.

Hypothetically what if the leaf is on a shelf inside an herbarium and is in a windowed package under florescent light?

If this were the case perhaps I'd ask for one from the bottom or from back stock.

And thanks for this. You may have helped open a door for me...
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
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the practical tripper
The American Ascetic Blues

 
_Arcane_
#7 Posted : 7/25/2018 12:53:27 PM

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Would it be possible to prepare a larger batch of Salvia, Aspirin, glycerin and vinegar for long term storage and future use or would this just spoil/dry out and render it useless over time?

I imagine just preparing it as and when it's required is much better, but I just wondered if you had tried that, I have enough to give it a go with no major drama if it didn't work.
LamVamRamYamHamKshamOm
 
Zebbie
#8 Posted : 7/26/2018 6:13:21 PM

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I would really appreciate it if you did a test comparing fresh powder to say one week and four week old powder.

The few tests I have done with one week old powder gave me inferior results to fresh powder. But this may be personal variation in my response to salvia. Set and setting have a big impact on how I experience the effects.

Some time ago, I ground a few grams of dried leaf without glycerin. It was very dusty. Breathing the dust made me high! Even now, when I prepare a dose of powder, I can smell the salvia. Perhaps some salvinorin becomes airborne, enters my lungs, and activates the kappa opioid receptors. That may be the real reason why freshly ground powder appears to be better than old powder.

 
_Arcane_
#9 Posted : 7/26/2018 11:24:59 PM

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I have some in the fridge that I prepared yesterday, I will make another batch and store it a week and another for two weeks and see if there is any real difference.

I will store some for a month too.
LamVamRamYamHamKshamOm
 
_Arcane_
#10 Posted : 7/27/2018 12:52:51 PM

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I made a small batch of 2.4g of salvia,aspirin,glycerin and cider vinegar which I will try in a week, then again in a fortnight and the last dose in a month.

Unfortunately I found my big stash of leaves had mould contamination so tossed those Sad but that is the benefit of having live plants I guess so lesson learned, better storage for my salvia leaves.
LamVamRamYamHamKshamOm
 
obliguhl
#11 Posted : 7/27/2018 9:24:25 PM

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Why are you adding aspirin?
"That's the thing Morgan - here is not here..."
 
_Arcane_
#12 Posted : 7/27/2018 10:21:14 PM

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obliguhl wrote:
Why are you adding aspirin?


https://www.dmt-nexus.me...spx?g=posts&t=80601

In that thread Zebbie mentioned
Zebbie wrote:
Grind the salvia with a small amount of aspirin. Saliva contains esterases that de-acetylate salvinorin A to salvinorin B. Aspirin is the acetic ester of salicylic acid. The aspirin becomes a sacrificial ester, and protects the Salvinorin A. I use 1/8 of a 300mg tablet to make 0.8g powder. Any more than this is counterproductive, because it leads to excess salivation, and therefore dilution of the salvia paste.


I will try without aspirin too once I can harvest more leaf from my plants and see if there is a noticeable difference
LamVamRamYamHamKshamOm
 
obliguhl
#13 Posted : 7/28/2018 10:32:02 AM

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Oh wow i love this development. This sounds like the lemon tek for salvia divinorum (just in reverse) if it works Thumbs up

Will follow this closely Smile
"That's the thing Morgan - here is not here..."
 
_Arcane_
#14 Posted : 7/30/2018 6:48:21 PM

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I tried 850mg of powder, aspirin, glycerin and cider vinegar held it in my mouth for just under 20 minutes, tried to swallow, it made me gag so spit it out, I didn't get much from it after a further 20 minutes other than a meditative calm slightly drunk feeling, I added another 2ml of my salvia tincture which gave me some interesting thoughts, like my spine was shorter than I knew it was, and like a distant dream of a half remembered story that seemed far away in my mind.

Maybe I need more, this dose for me was extremely mild.
LamVamRamYamHamKshamOm
 
Zebbie
#15 Posted : 7/31/2018 7:59:49 AM

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_Arcane_ wrote:
I tried 850mg of powder
Maybe I need more, this dose for me was extremely mild.

How much fresh or dry salvia leaf do you normally quid, Arcane?


_Arcane_ wrote:
tried to swallow, it made me gag.

Did you experience a lot of salivation? If that was the case, I would leave out the aspirin and vinegar next time. Saliva dilutes everything.
 
_Arcane_
#16 Posted : 7/31/2018 9:25:20 AM

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I normally use tincture and just dose until I get a light visionary state, the obvious problem with this is tincture burns, I only quidded my leaves once and I think it was about 8 leaves which gave me a nice visionary state but I am not a fan of the taste which is why a powder with as little taste as possible is what I am hoping for eventually.

I will try without aspirin and vinegar next time when I am off work.
LamVamRamYamHamKshamOm
 
Zebbie
#17 Posted : 7/31/2018 11:14:22 AM

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Maybe the enhanced sublingual salvia powder will suit you better. You can make it as strong as you like. It is not as bitter as leaf, because most of the tannins have been excluded.

I wrote a draft tek in .pdf form and posted it here
 
_Arcane_
#18 Posted : 8/1/2018 10:05:27 AM

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Thanks for the pdf Zebbie, once I have replenished my leaf stock I will try the enhanced powder for sure.
LamVamRamYamHamKshamOm
 
obliguhl
#19 Posted : 8/10/2018 8:26:11 PM

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Quote:
A monochrome glacier crumbles into waterfall like bread that gets broken
The bat-skin topped mountaintop

Under the black embossed skin of a hairless cat
The glycerin lava reveals its viscous secrets
maggots or gold
coiled on a dispenser

The black depths are near
and they tug
they pull
falling while
while falling from grace

in a way
there's only the organic
no feeling
the squished playdoo pencil drinking straw
with many rendered edges
and a sense

of cameras
points of vision
envisioning from near and far
from head to shin
and lost in the bat-skin rice
ice...ice...ice....


I think its around 2x as strong as chewing dried leaf. Smile
"That's the thing Morgan - here is not here..."
 
dragonrider
#20 Posted : 8/11/2018 9:39:29 AM

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Twice as strong? Wow.
 
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