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How to get rid of the gunk/sentiment on the bottom of an aya brew? Options
 
AwesomeUsername
#1 Posted : 6/20/2018 10:09:27 AM

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So I followed an advice from fellow travelers and made a CWE from mimosa and rue seeds. I filtered it with a plant milk filtering bag.

For the most part this went well. Even though my plants were powdered no powder leached into the liquid. The liquid is brown but clear. Except for the gunk on the bottom.

Now I'm not an expert but I assume this gunk is just tanins and filth from the plants and not the actives. I don't need any gunk in my brews as I find them hard on the stomach the way they are already.

The brew is definetly active but tastes dirty aside from being the usual bitter and foul taste.

So how do I filter out the gunk? I find the cleaner the brew the easier the body load and I don't know about you guys but I would tend to avoid any unnecessary physical discomfort if possible.
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
Elrik
#2 Posted : 6/20/2018 4:51:21 PM

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Precipitated tannins contain DMT tannate and ß-carboline tannates [I confirmed that tannin will precipitate harmine/harmaline Here]
If you dont want to heat your brew your stuck, either drink the solids or loose actives.
However, tannin and tannates will dissolve in a hot brew. I once made the mistake of heating a concentrated brew until all the tannin dissolved and drinking it like that Laughing If you heat it with stirring until as much solids dissolve as will dissolve and just the residual powdered plant solids are left those should settle more rapidly than the precipitates and you could probably remove them by decantation. Then just let the brew cool again and mix it up well before drinking it so the last dose isnt twice as potent as all the others.
Thats probably what I'd do.
Rue doesnt have tannin so next time you could brew them separately and be able to try and clarify the rue without the complicating influence of tannin, before combining it with the mimosa brew.
 
endlessness
#3 Posted : 6/20/2018 10:46:03 PM

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Thanks for sharing the results of your experiment, Elrik, I had missed that Smile

It would make sense that DMT tannate precipitate in a reduced brew would be formed. However what isn't clear is if AwesomeUsername reduced his brew, I would suppose so, after the CWE, but he didn't mention it.

If one wants to avoid the tannins, an egg white tannin removal could potentially be done. Elrik maybe you want to do the same test you did but with egg white boiling in your tannin-rich brew beforehand to see if it changes anything.

Another reason why sludge would have alkaloids, regardless of tannins, is that unless you totally filter it dry, the sludge itself still contains liquid brew mixed in.

And just to further confirm that the sludge is rich in alkaloids, it says so in an ayahuasca analysis publication (Callaway 2005)

If you really don't want to drink the sludge because it tastes aweful, you could just decant/filter it, and keep it separately for an extraction or potentially dilute it well before again filtering the solids away, which should redissolve the alkaloids, and then drink the liquid. Maybe using a stronger acid would displace the tannate ion and redissolve the alkaloids too, but I'd like the opinion of a chemist on this.
 
Elrik
#4 Posted : 6/21/2018 1:26:25 AM

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Interesting idea.
I'm vegan tho, so I dont have eggs.
When I dont want to deal with tannin, thats what xylene is for! Laughing
 
endlessness
#5 Posted : 6/21/2018 11:59:54 AM

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Elrik, maybe something like potato proteins to remove wine tannins could work.

How vegan do you consider xylene to be,considering its a petroleum distillate?
 
Jagube
#6 Posted : 6/21/2018 4:17:35 PM

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I don't know the exact definition of veganism and I wonder if plants are vegan, because all matter in nature circulates and when an animal dies, its body decomposes and releases its nutrients back into the soil, which the plants subsequently take up. Not only that, horse manure is a commonly used fertilizer. Most atoms we ingest from plant matter must have been part of an animal body at some point, unless the plant was grown hydroponically in a closed environment with nutrients obtained from deep underground, and never participated in a natural ecosystem.

If passing animal matter through a living plant veganizes it by definition, then it may be possible to make vegan honey by passing it through some kind of bacteria that does nothing to it. Perhaps even vegan meat. If you put a fly in a Venus Fly Trap and take it out, will that make the fly vegan?

Anyway, egg white tannin removal was inspired by the analogous process used in the wine industry. If you google "vegan wine fining" it may give you some ideas.
 
Elrik
#7 Posted : 6/21/2018 6:54:55 PM

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endlessness wrote:
...How vegan do you consider xylene to be,considering its a petroleum distillate?
Petroleum being 'fossil fuel' is actually a myth. Its possible, but what happened was in the 1800's it was thought that carbon compounds could only be made by living tissue and so oil was assumed to be from dinosaurs, ancient algae, etc. The advent of organic chemistry didnt get people to abandon their myth and even the modern petroleum abiogenesis theory, which gives empirical evidence that oil did not come from decomposed living tissues, still hasnt got people to change their ways. People generally like old comfortable things they grew up with like inches, fahrenheit, and dinosaur xylene. I'm happy to assume it came from a stellar dust cloud, myself.
And, anyway, I'm a whole food vegan because I had to cure cardiovascular disease I developed in highschool. And I dont drink xylene no matter the source Wink

...but for my garden I do make vegan mock-horse manure [no shit].
 
endlessness
#8 Posted : 6/21/2018 7:46:44 PM

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Not to continue too much offtopic but I wasn't getting at the 'dinnosaur xylene'.. Rather I was going for the "petroleum extraction and usage kills thousands of lifeforms all year round and therefore IMHO wouldn't qualify under the usual vegan worldview of avoiding suffering to other lifeforms through one's consumption" Smile
 
obliguhl
#9 Posted : 7/16/2018 9:06:56 PM

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Quote:
If one wants to avoid the tannins, an egg white tannin removal could potentially be done. Elrik maybe you want to do the same test you did but with egg white boiling in your tannin-rich brew beforehand to see if it changes anything.


That has resulted in barely active brews in the past.
You don't need to analyze it. Just drink the sediment, it's exactly what you want to drink.
 
blue.magic
#10 Posted : 7/16/2018 10:58:20 PM

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I usually filter the liquid through coarse and then fine sieves. I leave it to settle and then decant most of the supernatant liquid. The rest is poured into a cheese cloth and squeezed with the help of torque.

For extractions, the sludge is redissolved in water, re-boiled and re-filtered. This way most of the alkaloid salts will move into water the the sludge (resembling a poop when squeezed properly Smile ) won't contain much of it.

I regret selling my vertical juicer as this machine was capable of sequeezing most solids very hard and this could work for a bark too. There is some danger in making the apparatus stuck. Maybe a traditional press (with material folded) in a cheesecloth would work better.

I have read some people use potate ricer to separate mimosa bark from water.

As for the rue seeds, letting the tea sit overnight and carefully decanting will work miracles. You can pour more water in the container (the taller the better) and let it sit/decant one more time. The rest can again be processed with cheesecloth though I simply decant most of the liquid - it has good yields.
 
downwardsfromzero
#11 Posted : 7/16/2018 11:03:28 PM

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endlessness wrote:
Not to continue too much offtopic but I wasn't getting at the 'dinnosaur xylene'.. Rather I was going for the "petroleum extraction and usage kills thousands of lifeforms all year round and therefore IMHO wouldn't qualify under the usual vegan worldview of avoiding suffering to other lifeforms through one's consumption" Smile


Vegan xylene and toluene are possible!

Wikipedia wrote:
Xylene was first isolated and named in 1850 by the French chemist Auguste Cahours (1813–1891), having been discovered as a constituent of wood tar.[3]


Similarly toluene gains its name, also courtesy of Cahours, from Tolu balsam, a plant resin from which it was identified.
Quote:
In 1841, Henri Étienne Sainte-Claire Deville isolated toluene by the dry distillation of tolu balsam
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