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caapi extraction.. Options
 
starway6
#1 Posted : 12/25/2014 10:05:45 PM

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Can I simply extract from B caapi leaf and vine mix by acidifying the water and boiling for three hours?

Do I need to use lye like in procedure below??
I just want to make a simple caapi extraction without caustic stuff like lye..
Can i just use boiling water and vinegar?

instead of the procedude below?




Note error.png Note: This page is a transcription of Pictorial Guide to Caapi Vine Alkaloid Extraction by gibran2[1]. The content is to remain accurate as such.

Contents [hide]
1 Preparation of the Brew
2 Basification of the Brew
3 Remove Soluble Impurities
4 Acidify, Remove Insoluble Impurites
5 Freebase the Alkaloid Salts
6 Remove Excess NaOH, Salts, Etc.
7 Drying the Freebased Alkaloids
8 Final Yield
9 Reference
Preparation of the Brew
In the example shown, I started with 64g of shredded black caapi vine. 1g of fumaric acid was added to the vine. Other acidifying agents may be used, such as about 25ml of vinegar. (Some brews are made without addition of any acid.)
Add about 500ml water to the vine (enough to cover most of it), and gently boil for 30 minutes, covered. Pour off the resultant liquid through a strainer into a larger pot. Repeat this step three more times.
Boil the resultant brew (about one liter) and reduce to a volume of about 400ml. Cool to room temperature (if you want, add ice to speed cooling).

CAAPI EXTRACTION 01 01.jpg
Basification of the Brew
Dissolve 5g of NaOH in 50ml of water. Add this solution to the brew, and periodically stir for about 5 minutes. During this time, the alkaloids begin to aggregate and precipitate. Allow the alkaloids to settle and the solution to clarify.

CAAPI EXTRACTION 02 01.jpg
Remove Soluble Impurities
Siphon off the clear dark-brown liquid and discard.
Add about 200ml water, stir, and allow precipitate to settle again. After 20-30 minutes, the precipitate will have settled, but the solution may still be somewhat cloudy. Rather than wait 12+ hours for everything to settle, siphon off the liquid and save it. Repeat this step two more times.

CAAPI EXTRACTION 03 01.jpg
Acidify, Remove Insoluble Impurites
Add about 50ml vinegar to the precipitate. This will cause the freebase alkaloids to form water-soluble salts, leaving behind insoluble impurities. Dilute with about 150ml water.
Allow solution to settle. When the resultant yellow liquid is nearly crystal clear, remove and save it. Discard the brown sediment. This sediment is mostly bits of plant material.

CAAPI EXTRACTION 04 01.jpg
Freebase the Alkaloid Salts
Add about 5g NaOH to 50ml water. While stirring the yellow alkaloid solution, slowly add NaOH solution. The freebase alkaloids will rapidly come out of solution. Add only enough NaOH to get the alkaloids to freebase – you’ll probably only need 20ml or so of the solution, depending on how much acid you used in the previous step.

CAAPI EXTRACTION 05 01.jpg
Remove Excess NaOH, Salts, Etc.
After most of the precipitate has settled, siphon off the cloudy liquid. Reserve this liquid for an overnight settling.
Add about 200ml water to the precipitate, stir, and allow to settle again. Remove and reserve liquid. Repeat this step one more time.
Before removing the liquid the third time, check its pH. It should be somewhere between 7 and 8. If the solution is still very alkaline, you haven’t removed enough NaOH and must do additional rinses. Repeat until pH is between 7 and 8.
A pH meter or pH test papers are highly recommended, but if you don’t have either, then do at least 4 rinses.

CAAPI EXTRACTION 06 01.jpg
Drying the Freebased Alkaloids
After removing as much water as possible from the freebased alkaloids, transfer the alkaloids to a baking dish or another suitable container with lots of surface area. Allow to dry – under a fan is best. When the alkaloids are dry, they will be noticeably lighter in color. Scrape up the dry alkaloids and store in a cool dark place.

CAAPI EXTRACTION 07 01.jpg
Final Yield
Allow the “rinse” solutions that were collected and put aside to settle for 12 or more hours (in a refrigerator is good). You will be surprised by how much precipitate collects from what were only slightly cloudy solutions.
Siphon off the liquid and discard. Acidify the precipitate, allow to settle, etc. as described above.
From 64g of black caapi vine, the initial extraction yielded 1.068g alkaloids. The second extraction of the reserved liquids yielded another 0.258g. The total yield was 1.326g, or 2.07%
 

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Synkromystic
#2 Posted : 12/25/2014 10:56:13 PM

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If your not going to smoke it you can. Smoking acetate salts is not recommended.

If you dont want to use lye, you can use sodium carbonate. It is a very benign substance
 
starway6
#3 Posted : 12/25/2014 11:25:31 PM

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Synkromystic wrote:
If your not going to smoke it you can. Smoking acetate salts is not recommended.

If you dont want to use lye, you can use sodium carbonate. It is a very benign substance


Dont plan on smoking it more likely oral or pluged...
The natives in south america just boil in water everything in one big pot ..the vine and the DMT containing plant mater..
Why use lye or even sodium carbonate ...unless this is only a way to get a more refined product?
Wouldnt just acid boiling with vinegar and water .. produce a crude but efective harmala or product if i were to acid boil it all out ...then reduce the water volume to an oily extraction i could scrape from bottom of pot and after weighing mix in some vinegar ? ?

Ive vaped pleanty but oral is new for me ... just need a way to use the experiance more efectivly similar to oral experiance ...
So i guess using lye or sodium carb is for basifying a more pure harmalas?? ?

 
dreamer042
#4 Posted : 12/25/2014 11:59:58 PM

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Correct, basing it out is for extracting purified harmalas, which I highly advise against with caapi. Use rue for that, it's much cheaper and yields a lot better. Save vine for drinking.

With caapi leaf the harmalas don't precip for one reason or another, so generally you either want to make a crude 10x or similar or make it into a tea. When made into a tea in the fashion of vine it can be rather hard on the belly because of the tannins present, but it is effective medicine. Many people report it be a nice mood booster when used as a regular herbal tea.

With the vine you can just cook it in water 3 times at anywhere between 30 minutes and 3 hours for each boil depending on your preference, combine, and reduce to a drinkable amount. 30 minutes is all it really takes to extract alkaloids, but people claim they get better effects from 3 hour boils, it seems the longer you boil it the higher the thh ratio so there is something to these claims, it's up to you in the end. I advise against using vinegar as it makes it taste much worse than it normally would, you can use just pure water and it works fine, adding an acid increases efficiency of the extraction into the water a bit, but isn't really necessary. If you use an acid I recommend just a pinch of something that is not too overpowering like pure citric or ascorbic acid.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
concombres
#5 Posted : 12/26/2014 12:11:57 AM

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You could just brew it & drink aya if you dont want to add other stuff.

Evapping the liquid would not clean the extract up at all. You'd just have solid aya. The harmalas seem to absorb much faster & easier when dissolved in a liquid.

I'd say just try a brew & see how you like it. If its too nauseating, try cleaning the brew up & converting to different salts, etc. until you find what works well for your body.

Personally i have a weak stomache but love oral harmalas + spice. I have to extract & clean up my harmalas & spice as much as possible & dose just above thresh hold with the harmalas otherwise i'm crippled for hours projectile vomiting from outside my body.
 
starway6
#6 Posted : 12/26/2014 12:40:02 AM

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dreamer042 wrote:
Correct, basing it out is for extracting purified harmalas, which I highly advise against with caapi. Use rue for that, it's much cheaper and yields a lot better. Save vine for drinking.

With caapi leaf the harmalas don't precip for one reason or another, so generally you either want to make a crude 10x or similar or make it into a tea. When made into a tea in the fashion of vine it can be rather hard on the belly because of the tannins present, but it is effective medicine. Many people report it be a nice mood booster when used as a regular herbal tea.

With the vine you can just cook it in water 3 times at anywhere between 30 minutes and 3 hours for each boil depending on your preference, combine, and reduce to a drinkable amount. 30 minutes is all it really takes to extract alkaloids, but people claim they get better effects from 3 hour boils, it seems the longer you boil it the higher the thh ratio so there is something to these claims, it's up to you in the end. I advise against using vinegar as it makes it taste much worse than it normally would, you can use just pure water and it works fine, adding an acid increases efficiency of the extraction into the water a bit, but isn't really necessary. If you use an acid I recommend just a pinch of something that is not too overpowering like pure citric or ascorbic acid.


I am doing a very small scale acid boil..using a small handfull of caapi leaf with a small handfull of shredded caapi vine..
The leafe and vine could be diferent types of caapi?..im not shure?.. because i got them months apart from diferent suplyers..
But they are booth caapi leafe and vine...
Ive already used white vinegar in the acid boils but dont really want to do it oraly because of concerns about naseua ..
Im intertested in trying plugging method with the harmalas and maybe either vaping or plugging some predesolved acacia confusa freebase desolved in a small amount of vinegar..?
May I ask if the two natural caapis im using are concidered reversable and much safer that pharmasy purchased maois? Is this correct?

 
dreamer042
#7 Posted : 12/26/2014 12:52:06 AM

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Correct caapi is a RIMA (reversible inhibitor of MAO-A) and does not effect you like pharmaceutical MAOI's. That said, you still want to avoid most pharmaceuticals particularly SSRI's and any kind of amphetamine (including MDxx compounds).

If you are putting it up your bum I'd make sure it's not too acidic, I'd assume ph 3 might be a little painful lol. Keep in mind that thing are moar potent with rectal administration, but you should be okay with just a handful each of leaf and vine, go easy on the acacia however if you decide to plug it.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
starway6
#8 Posted : 12/26/2014 1:19:35 AM

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Ohh so plugging is stronger trip than oral?!
Hmm...
I did read some recent reports that said that pluging causes almost no body load and no sick to stomach feeling..and that alone sounded good..
But now I might consider oral..
Thanks much.
 
starway6
#9 Posted : 12/26/2014 4:24:32 AM

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concombres wrote:
You could just brew it & drink aya if you dont want to add other stuff.

Evapping the liquid would not clean the extract up at all. You'd just have solid aya. The harmalas seem to absorb much faster & easier when dissolved in a liquid.

I'd say just try a brew & see how you like it. If its too nauseating, try cleaning the brew up & converting to different salts, etc. until you find what works well for your body.

Personally i have a weak stomache but love oral harmalas + spice. I have to extract & clean up my harmalas & spice as much as possible & dose just above thresh hold with the harmalas otherwise i'm crippled for hours projectile vomiting from outside my body.




Hey.. that gives me an idea!...if i were to evaporate the water down to what you called ...
[solid aya] and let it dry compleatly would it store longer?????Wut?


Also couldent i weigh and capsolate the dryed aya powder avoiding the nausea by its digesting lower in digestive system instead of the stomach?...
I read somewhere that digesting it in the large intestine will avoid nausea...
Just not shure the extracted dryed harmala powder will survive storage ??
Any opinions welcome....
 
Jagube
#10 Posted : 6/1/2018 8:41:48 PM

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dreamer042 wrote:
With caapi leaf the harmalas don't precip for one reason or another

I did a simple extraction of Caapi leaf (as in the Wiki) and obtained 1200mg of dark clumping powder from 40g dried leaf material collected from a home-grown, indoor plant.
The powder turned out to be very impure (maybe 15-25% alks), but definitely active.
 
 
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