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Unbearable ego death - could it be different? Options
 
sighmon
#61 Posted : 5/17/2018 7:54:40 AM
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nexalizer wrote:
sighmon wrote:
nexalizer wrote:

The truth of oneness is the experience.

That doesn't make sense to me.


Because you haven't had the experience.


I'm pretty sure I did. I did of course believe it to be true during the experience. I did have those "insights" like "of course", "how could it have been any other way" etc. and very strong feelings of profoundness. I just don't think now in a sober state that I can trust that. After all thoughts and feelings can be caused by the drug just like the experience itself.
 

with a seemingly autonomous entity after taking DMT?
 
Sakkadelic
#62 Posted : 5/17/2018 10:44:27 AM

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sighmon wrote:
I'm pretty sure I did. I did of course believe it to be true during the experience. I did have those "insights" like "of course", "how could it have been any other way" etc. and very strong feelings of profoundness. I just don't think now in a sober state that I can trust that. After all thoughts and feelings can be caused by the drug just like the experience itself.

Sakkadelic attached the following image(s):
40a475edfbf9145e0a7603e13dc802f5--terrence-mckenna-quotes-terrance-mckenna.jpg (37kb) downloaded 171 time(s).
"Is this the end of our adventure? Nothing has an end. We came in search of the secret of immortality, to be like gods, and here we are... mortals, more human than ever. If we have not obtained immortality, at least we have obtained reality. We began in a fairytale and we came to life! But is this life reality? We are images, dreams, photographs. We must not stay here! Prisoners! We shall break the illusion. This is Maya. Goodbye to the holy mountain. Real life awaits us." ~ Alejandro Jodorowsky
 
pitubo
#63 Posted : 5/17/2018 12:08:29 PM

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tseuq wrote:
Remembering a small conversation with our beloved fellow pitubo ...

I was summoned?

sighmon wrote:
I just can't believe in this psychedelic mysticism. The feeling of oneness is too easily explained as a delusion due to altered brain function. It even seems quite obvious that the more limited your mental faculties the more reality would seem like that. Not to say that it couldn't be true but I don't think the psychedelic experience is credible evidence for it.

Also, "unconsciousness" doesn't really seem to fit into this worldview.

For me, the experience hasn't really provided any answers of this sort, only brought up or made me more aware of the questions.

You seem to have received a bit of a hyperslap, though by the sound of it, not a particularly heavy handed one.

Who is to say that a brain, when not functionally altered by psychedelic substances, is not delusional also? Psychedelic experiences can give an altered peek onto experienced reality and onto the experience of reality. Of course that gives no guarantees about the factuality or verity of the experienced. But it adds new data points to the human experience, data points of a different order than ordinarily experienced. To seek literal truth in it is naive and can lead to mental problems.

The term "unconscious" was popularized by Freud, whose theories have largely fallen into disregard. Anyone wanting to go down that road should perhaps focus on the ideas of Pierre Janet instead, since that is what Freud plagiarized and bastardized (it's a very sordid history.)

dragonrider wrote:
There's that sensation that everything you ever believed in, or cared about, is a lie. You are just a biological machine and nothing more. Even your higher executive functions are just the result of chemical processes. All the love you ever felt is just a pattern of neurons firing. There is no you. There is no meaning. All meaning is instinct, recursion and relations.

Ego-death is supposed to be a frightening experience. Even budhist monks who meditate for years and years, go through a phase of terror. It is completely normal.

This. Every traveler into the psychedelic realms must be prepared to come to terms with these kinds of experiences. How big or steep a hurdle this can be, depends on the set and setting of one's personal history and makeup.

This is not to say that psychedelics will always have this effect of bringing up painful confrontations. By the same token, difficult emotions that had been stuck forever may be suddenly abstracted away, bringing about a surprising sense of bliss and reconnection.

Both types of altered state induced experience require careful reflection and introspection to be integrated into our "normal" world persona. When done properly we may find ourselves enriched with a deepened relation with our cosmos.

dragonrider wrote:
It is only fair to say that much of the feelings of bliss that people go through after an ego-death experience, can be attributed to the gradual returning of the ego.

This I am not sure of. There does seem to be a sense of great relief on returning back to safe and familiar shores after riding through the stormy waves of difficult trips. Also the greater appreciation of a deeper sense of self can be very rewarding and existentially comforting. But the most flabbergasting experiences of bliss, when they occur, seem to occur at the hight of psychedelia.

Perhaps being prepared to accept a hyperslap can be as challenging as being prepared to accept hyperbliss.

tseuq wrote:
Offtopic: Can we pls get some more promotion up votes for our fellows Metashaman and KloudQ7?

Circumstances pertaining to KloudQ7 were already pointed out in that thread. With Metashaman there appear to be / have been historical issues. It looks like Metashaman might be under an extended suspended judgement relating to past issues.

Once a moderator gives a negative vote, it becomes very hard to attain the promotion threshold by regular upvotes. It seems that not enough members participate in voting to offset the moderator vote power. Another moderator's upvote, effectively cancelling a prior heavyweight downvote, appears to be the only way to break through such an impasse. A great many regular upvotes will likely help to convince the mod team to revise their view of the "new" member. Come on full members, let yourself be heard!
 
tatt
#64 Posted : 5/17/2018 12:31:53 PM

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Quote:
Differentiating between yourself and your environment (or any two things for that matter) is a brain function. If that function stops working (e.g., because of a drug) then I would assume that would have to feel like everything is one. Seems like a more plausible explanation to me than jumping to extreme conclusions about the nature of reality. And as far as I know there is no evidence besides it "feeling" real.


If this phenomena is too easily explained (like you'd claimed)..then what happened to the easy explanation, I'm confused? You never ended up explaining anything. Razz


C'mon now


sighmon wrote:
No one's ever come back from tripping with the next week's lottery numbers or anything like that.



This statement alone says enough to me. No need to continue this discussion [on my part] any further if this is where you're shooting from


Hope it all works itself out for you <3










 
null24
#65 Posted : 5/17/2018 4:14:40 PM

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tatt wrote:







Thanks tatt, you echoed my thoughts exactly.Thumbs up
Sine experientia nihil sufficienter sciri potest -Roger Bacon
*γνῶθι σεαυτόν*
the practical tripper
The American Ascetic Blues

 
sighmon
#66 Posted : 5/17/2018 7:04:50 PM
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HolySmoke wrote:
I think it should be obvious that some beliefs lead to better places than others. Figuring out what beliefs build stability, beauty and fairness is a mission humanity (unknowingly) has experimented with for as long as we have had beliefs. Self destructive beliefs self destruct. Adaptive beliefs stabilize and prosper.

This relates to beliefs at all levels, down to the very concrete and trivial. Beliefs about the DMT experience is almost meta-metaphysical, and I find it much harder or even impossible to integrate some of these experiences with daily life. Nevertheless, they seem to have an impact, on a level I barely can articulate.

I don't know exactly where I'm going with this. Say that i) one society has a collective belief that humans are just walking biochemical meat bags with consciousnesses that are insignificant in the grand scheme of things, and ii) another society has a collective belief that God exists in all people equally, so that if they violate one another they violate themselves, that if they steal from another person, they are stealing from themselves. It doesn't seem far fetched to me that society ii) would do better in the long run, especially if they also see God equally in their environment, and treats the land as they would treat themselves.

Since they do better, and will exist in a more stable manner, or at least are more likely to, doesn't that imply that the belief of society ii) is more true than that of society i)? (Or vice versa, if society i) turns out to be the most stable and long lasting one). Doesn't it imply that they moreso are aligned with the reality of being?

The apple trees know the Truth. They, on average, have for millions of years bloomed at the right time, put out the right number of leaves. The rabbit knows the Truth. They know what to eat, where to hop, when to sleep. They have aligned themselves with Source and Gaia for millions of years. The sharks know the Truth. They have lived it for hundreds of millions of years. Do modern humans know the Truth? Do they know enough about the reality of Being to last another 1000 years?

Scientific truths are grand and deep. They are my primary way of learning about the natural world. But those truths are only half the picture.

I agree with you that delusions may actually increase your darwinian fitness but apart from that it seems like you're just trying to redefine the established meaning of truth and knowledge. I don't believe words have any inherent meaning but that they get their meaning from how people generally understand them and people generally do not understand knowledge of truth as synonymous to darwinian fitness. Arguing that "truth" is something other than what people generally understand it to be seems completely pointless. Even if we redefine it the concept it used to refer to still exists, still is useful and in need of a new label.

pitubo wrote:
Who is to say that a brain, when not functionally altered by psychedelic substances, is not delusional also?

I don't have an answer to that but even if it is a delusion it is certainly the most intricate and persistent of them all.
 
nexalizer
#67 Posted : 5/17/2018 7:27:32 PM

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sighmon wrote:

That doesn't work so well in reality. If an amputee in a wheelchair at the top of a long, steep flight of chairs can feel his non existing legs, would you tell him to trust the experience and take a step - and then tell his family life is dangerous, get used to the idea.


Like I wrote before, and it is the third time now that it goes completely through you, you don't just blindly accept it. You experience it, think about it, feel about it, emote about it, discuss about it, ponder, and integrate.

What I wrote about and your hypothetical scenario are not the same thing, not even close. One is a calculated leap of faith, the other is stupidity.

sighmon wrote:

As for the second part, that is very true and too many people are sadly calling psychedelics harmless just because they're not likely to physically harm you (but even that isn't really true as psychological issues are physical harm to the brain (even if temporary but a lot of physical injuries also heal by themselves)


Again, I cannot speak for others. Perhaps many people say so.
Be that as it may, truth isn't altered because more or less people believe in it.

It should be very self-evident that anything that can catalyze experiences as extreme and alien as psychedelics, and especially DMT and 5-MeO-DMT, also comes with appreciable potential to throw your life into chaos.

This is why it is plastered all over this site: do NOT take the journey lightly. It has the potential to change EVERYTHING.

This is the time to really find out who you are and enjoy every moment you have. Take advantage of it.
 
dragonrider
#68 Posted : 5/17/2018 8:05:50 PM

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sighmon wrote:
HolySmoke wrote:
I think it should be obvious that some beliefs lead to better places than others. Figuring out what beliefs build stability, beauty and fairness is a mission humanity (unknowingly) has experimented with for as long as we have had beliefs. Self destructive beliefs self destruct. Adaptive beliefs stabilize and prosper.

This relates to beliefs at all levels, down to the very concrete and trivial. Beliefs about the DMT experience is almost meta-metaphysical, and I find it much harder or even impossible to integrate some of these experiences with daily life. Nevertheless, they seem to have an impact, on a level I barely can articulate.

I don't know exactly where I'm going with this. Say that i) one society has a collective belief that humans are just walking biochemical meat bags with consciousnesses that are insignificant in the grand scheme of things, and ii) another society has a collective belief that God exists in all people equally, so that if they violate one another they violate themselves, that if they steal from another person, they are stealing from themselves. It doesn't seem far fetched to me that society ii) would do better in the long run, especially if they also see God equally in their environment, and treats the land as they would treat themselves.

Since they do better, and will exist in a more stable manner, or at least are more likely to, doesn't that imply that the belief of society ii) is more true than that of society i)? (Or vice versa, if society i) turns out to be the most stable and long lasting one). Doesn't it imply that they moreso are aligned with the reality of being?

The apple trees know the Truth. They, on average, have for millions of years bloomed at the right time, put out the right number of leaves. The rabbit knows the Truth. They know what to eat, where to hop, when to sleep. They have aligned themselves with Source and Gaia for millions of years. The sharks know the Truth. They have lived it for hundreds of millions of years. Do modern humans know the Truth? Do they know enough about the reality of Being to last another 1000 years?

Scientific truths are grand and deep. They are my primary way of learning about the natural world. But those truths are only half the picture.

I agree with you that delusions may actually increase your darwinian fitness but apart from that it seems like you're just trying to redefine the established meaning of truth and knowledge. I don't believe words have any inherent meaning but that they get their meaning from how people generally understand them and people generally do not understand knowledge of truth as synonymous to darwinian fitness. Arguing that "truth" is something other than what people generally understand it to be seems completely pointless. Even if we redefine it the concept it used to refer to still exists, still is useful and in need of a new label.

pitubo wrote:
Who is to say that a brain, when not functionally altered by psychedelic substances, is not delusional also?

I don't have an answer to that but even if it is a delusion it is certainly the most intricate and persistent of them all.

Most people indeed do view truth as correspondence: you have a picture in your mind, and if that picture correctly corresponds with the world out there, that picture is true.

The problem is that these correspondence theories of truth, all have realy severe shortcomings. They
can never be proven right, so in the end they all simply boil down to blind faith. Even if you can establish there realy is correspondence, it is always very limited, and you can never realy tell what this correspondance exists of: i for instance, could be a robot instead of a person. And while you're thinking you are having a discussion on the web with actual people, the DMT nexus could be just an A.I. experiment from google to see how well robots could have metaphysical discussions with actual people.

There is correspondence, but it could be an entirely different kind of corresponance then you think, so the picture you'd have would not be an accurate representation of reality.

The "truth is what works best", does seem to be too simplistic or short-sighted at first glance, but it has something going for it. Because even if you run into shortcomings, and you always will as every theory is flawed in some way, you still have a good reason for proscribing to it: at least it works.

I think that, on a subcounscious level, we actually DO use the "truth is what works best" definition of truth, but on a counscious level we don't. The picture in our head as a whole, we tend to see as corresponding with "the real world", or at least that's what it's supposed to do.
But when we retrieve each little puzzle piece in order to build that picture, we just let our subcounscious do the work. And our subcounscious cares more about survival than about philosophical accuracy.
Or at least..i think that is how we learn new things. By the little rewardsignals we get, when we "get it right".
When you look at it, there is no way that you can realy know that you got it right. The only thing you've realy learned is how to succesfully trigger a reward signal.

But if all those little puzzlepieces we obtain that way, nicely fit together, (or at least most of them), that IS an indication that you've got something right.
 
sighmon
#69 Posted : 5/17/2018 8:06:27 PM
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nexalizer wrote:
Like I wrote before, and it is the third time now that it goes completely through you, you don't just blindly accept it. You experience it, think about it, feel about it, emote about it, discuss about it, ponder, and integrate.


Unless you come across any evidence besides the experience itself while "thinking, feeling, pondering, discussing" it still seems like blind faith to me. Couldn't you say the same about any religions and (at least some of) their followers?

nexalizer wrote:

Again, I cannot speak for others. Perhaps many people say so.
Be that as it may, truth isn't altered because more or less people believe in it.

It should be very self-evident that anything that can catalyze experiences as extreme and alien as psychedelics, and especially DMT and 5-MeO-DMT, also comes with appreciable potential to throw your life into chaos.

This is why it is plastered all over this site: do NOT take the journey lightly. It has the potential to change EVERYTHING.

It's not just DMT but any psychedelic with a high enough dose, even weed. If it sounds like a straw man all you have to do is google. The possible effects of having your world view shattered are generally vastly understated if mentioned at all. Even the warnings are mostly about other aspects like the possible damage to your lungs by smoking or accidentally hurting yourself while under the influence.
 
nexalizer
#70 Posted : 5/17/2018 8:12:18 PM

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sighmon wrote:

Unless you come across any evidence besides the experience itself while "thinking, feeling, pondering, discussing" it still seems like blind faith to me. Couldn't you say the same about any religions and (at least some of) their followers?


The evidence is the experience.

It cannot be put in words. It can only be known.

If you knew, you would know what I speak about.

There is nothing I can write or convey to convince you. It is something that you must go through yourself.

I realize how it sounds/reads like for someone who never had that kind of experience. I was the same before. Would have dismissed it as hippie pseudo-spiritual mumbo jumbo.

400ug of acid later I had a different view. That's all I can tell you.


sighmon wrote:

It's not just DMT but any psychedelic with a high enough dose, even weed. If it sounds like a straw man all you have to do is google. The possible effects of having your world view shattered are generally vastly understated if mentioned at all. Even the warnings are mostly about other aspects like the possible damage to your lungs by smoking or accidentally hurting yourself while under the influence.


Well sure, if you take a gram of 4-HO-MET, which is rather easy to handle otherwise, then of course you're gonna get yourself in trouble.

The thing with DMT is that at a "normal dose" it is beyond astonishing. Not many other psychedelics can do that to you.

I don't think the effects are understated at all. If you truly understand what psychedelics can do, then the name of the game is at least in part to shatter your whole worldview.

The problem with doing that is that you're thrown into a state of chaos as a result, but presumably you undertook the journey, aware of the risks, because you were confident that from the growth the chaos would force you to experience, you would emerge more whole.
This is the time to really find out who you are and enjoy every moment you have. Take advantage of it.
 
Doc Buxin
#71 Posted : 5/17/2018 8:15:21 PM

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hug46 wrote:
Doc Buxin wrote:

If you are experiencing such intense anxiety ("social" or whatever one wants to label it) that you would choose to ingest a benzodiazepine-class drug, that will dessicate your liver (among other organs) faster than tobacco or alcohol ever will and engender more anxiety episodes down the road, then you have an emotional issue that you need to focus on and work towards resolving.


Or it could just mean that Sighmon has the kind of job that requires self medication in certain situations that are stressful......



I was going to leave this thread alone once I began to grasp the pointlessness of trying to help in this particular case, however, in light of this post from hug46, I feel the need to further clarify my position a little bit more.

The OP was asking how to create a less-unbearable ego-death situation in regards to psychedelics. Regardless of the specificity of the question, it can be, on one valid level, be interpreted as simply asking how to make psychedelic trips more comfortable in general.

When the OP mentioned that they ingest a benzodiazepine-family drug on a once-to-twice-a-week basis due to anxiety issues, I felt, from extensive experience, that (if I chose to compose a post and help answer their question) anxiety issues of any kind can profoundly effect the psychedelic experience in myriad, negative ways. Especially if said anxiety issues have tended to be suppressed by drugs (most commonly pharmaceutical psyche meds of all kinds) for an extended period of time (this varies by individual) and magnified by the action of suppression.

Suppression of symptoms is the opposite of working with and through the symptoms with non-drug strategies such as meditation of varying kinds, dream work, exercise, acupuncture, yoga, breath work, sufficient quality of sleep, quitting one's job, moving one's residence, finding new and different friends, sometimes even disowning family members, etc. These and the many more options available, are, in general, preferable to masking symptoms and continuing on with one's life like there's absolutely nothing out of balance internally or externally in one's world IF one's goal is to create a more blissful psychedelic state when experienced.

If not, more power to whatever one chooses to do.

This advice does not come from a place of inexperience and/or naivete. I have been a practicing, medicinal, clinical herbalist for 30+ years and have worked closely with and have owned and managed clinics with medical professionals many of those years (I currently still consult for a small handful that practice in the closest city to our farm).

I have helped hundreds (if not thousands by now) of clients through pharmaceutical psyche med (including a high percentage of benzo users) withdrawal that, in the end, helped them live more fulfilled, productive, creative lives.

Furthermore, if there was such a thing as a "professional psychonaut" that would be me and from all my myriad entheogenic experiences over the decades I can tell anyone, with great confidence, that most psyche meds are going to effect your psychedelic experiences in some negative way or another, even if it is slight and even if the affect itself is not at all perceived consciously by the user.

With all that being said, sighmon, despite not needing my advice, recognized that I was indeed simply trying to help with the original question they posed and showed appreciation for my intention and that is all that I can ever ask for when attempting to help another. It is up to the individual (or at least it ideally should be) to decide for themselves what route or path they are going to follow. All I do is offer the help that I can from the depth of my experiences.


May we all find our Peace
Freedom's so hard
When we are all bound by laws
Etched in the scheme of nature's own hand
Unseen by all those who fail
In their pursuit of fate
 
nexalizer
#72 Posted : 5/17/2018 8:17:21 PM

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Doc Buxin wrote:
hug46 wrote:
Doc Buxin wrote:

If you are experiencing such intense anxiety ("social" or whatever one wants to label it) that you would choose to ingest a benzodiazepine-class drug, that will dessicate your liver (among other organs) faster than tobacco or alcohol ever will and engender more anxiety episodes down the road, then you have an emotional issue that you need to focus on and work towards resolving.


Or it could just mean that Sighmon has the kind of job that requires self medication in certain situations that are stressful......



I was going to leave this thread alone once I began to grasp the pointlessness of trying to help in this particular case, however, in light of this post from hug46, I feel the need to further clarify my position a little bit more.

The OP was asking how to create a less-unbearable ego-death situation in regards to psychedelics. Regardless of the specificity of the question, it can be, on one valid level, be interpreted as simply asking how to make psychedelic trips more comfortable in general.

When the OP mentioned that they ingest a benzodiazepine-family drug on a once-to-twice-a-week basis due to anxiety issues, I felt, from extensive experience, that (if I chose to compose a post and help answer their question) anxiety issues of any kind can profoundly effect the psychedelic experience in myriad, negative ways. Especially if said anxiety issues have tended to be suppressed by drugs (most commonly pharmaceutical psyche meds of all kinds) for an extended period of time (this varies by individual) and magnified by the action of suppression.

Suppression of symptoms is the opposite of working with and through the symptoms with non-drug strategies such as meditation of varying kinds, dream work, exercise, acupuncture, yoga, breath work, sufficient quality of sleep, quitting one's job, moving one's residence, finding new and different friends, sometimes even disowning family members, etc. These and the many more options available, are, in general, preferable to masking symptoms and continuing on with one's life like there's absolutely nothing out of balance internally or externally in one's world IF one's goal is to create a more blissful psychedelic state when experienced.

If not, more power to whatever one chooses to do.

This advice does not come from a place of inexperience and/or naivete. I have been a practicing, medicinal, clinical herbalist for 30+ years and have worked closely with and have owned and managed clinics with medical professionals many of those years (I currently still consult for a small handful that practice in the closest city to our farm).

I have helped hundreds (if not thousands by now) of clients through pharmaceutical psyche med (including a high percentage of benzo users) withdrawal that, in the end, helped them live more fulfilled, productive, creative lives.

Furthermore, if there was such a thing as a "professional psychonaut" that would be me and from all my myriad entheogenic experiences over the decades I can tell anyone, with great confidence, that most psyche meds are going to effect your psychedelic experiences in some negative way or another, even if it is slight and even if the affect itself is not at all perceived consciously by the user.

With all that being said, sighmon, despite not needing my advice, recognized that I was indeed simply trying to help with the original question they posed and showed appreciation for my intention and that is all that I can ever ask for when attempting to help another. It is up to the individual (or at least it ideally should be) to decide for themselves what route or path they are going to follow. All I do is offer the help that I can from the depth of my experiences.


May we all find our Peace


Really good post, dear stranger.
This is the time to really find out who you are and enjoy every moment you have. Take advantage of it.
 
dragonrider
#73 Posted : 5/17/2018 8:29:38 PM

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pitubo wrote:
dragonrider wrote:
It is only fair to say that much of the feelings of bliss that people go through after an ego-death experience, can be attributed to the gradual returning of the ego.

This I am not sure of. There does seem to be a sense of great relief on returning back to safe and familiar shores after riding through the stormy waves of difficult trips. Also the greater appreciation of a deeper sense of self can be very rewarding and existentially comforting. But the most flabbergasting experiences of bliss, when they occur, seem to occur at the hight of psychedelia.

Perhaps being prepared to accept a hyperslap can be as challenging as being prepared to accept hyperbliss.

Yeah, that last statement of me was more meant to be thought provoking than a definitive statement.

All i can say is that in my daily life, i am still very much attached to my ego. And letting go of it is a very scary thing to do for me. The only thing that eventually pushes me to take that leap, is that i say to myself "i choose to do this in spite of all my fears". If i don't counsciously say that to myself, i find it nearly impossible to overcome these fears. It's too easy to find excuses. It's like they just present themselves naturally...like:"you can do DMT tomorrow, there's a great movie on TV tonight".
 
sighmon
#74 Posted : 5/17/2018 8:51:00 PM
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Doc Buxin wrote:
Suppression of symptoms is the opposite of working with and through the symptoms with non-drug strategies such as meditation of varying kinds, dream work, exercise, acupuncture, yoga, breath work, sufficient quality of sleep, quitting one's job, moving one's residence, finding new and different friends, sometimes even disowning family members, etc. These and the many more options available, are, in general, preferable to masking symptoms and continuing on with one's life like there's absolutely nothing out of balance internally or externally in one's world IF one's goal is to create a more blissful psychedelic state when experienced.


No offense, but I find it very condescending the way you want to analyze and diagnose me. You may be a "herbalist", whatever that is (I assume not a medical doctor), but like I said, I've been in therapy for over a decade with various experienced psychologists and psychiatrist over a long time who eventually knew me very well and thus were much more qualified to give me medical advice and I've tried not only medication but pretty much every kind of alternative that doesn't fail to pass placebo trials.

I also don't have any drug suppressed anxieties. My anxiety is with me whenever I am in public/around people. The only thing I usually use benzos for is to buy myself a few hours to perform a social function like attending some office party without everyone thinking I'm a complete freak afterwards.
 
nexalizer
#75 Posted : 5/17/2018 8:53:25 PM

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sighmon wrote:
Doc Buxin wrote:
Suppression of symptoms is the opposite of working with and through the symptoms with non-drug strategies such as meditation of varying kinds, dream work, exercise, acupuncture, yoga, breath work, sufficient quality of sleep, quitting one's job, moving one's residence, finding new and different friends, sometimes even disowning family members, etc. These and the many more options available, are, in general, preferable to masking symptoms and continuing on with one's life like there's absolutely nothing out of balance internally or externally in one's world IF one's goal is to create a more blissful psychedelic state when experienced.


No offense, but I find it very condescending the way you want to analyze and diagnose me. You may be a "herbalist", whatever that is (I assume not a medical doctor), but like I said, I've been in therapy for over a decade with various experienced psychologists and psychiatrist over a long time who eventually knew me very well and thus were much more qualified to give me medical advice and I've tried not only medication but pretty much every kind of alternative that doesn't fail to pass placebo trials.

I also don't have any drug suppressed anxieties. My anxiety is with me whenever I am in public/around people. The only thing I usually use benzos for is to buy myself a few hours to perform a social function like attending some office party without everyone thinking I'm a complete freak afterwards.


Don't think he was speaking about you at all.
This is the time to really find out who you are and enjoy every moment you have. Take advantage of it.
 
sighmon
#76 Posted : 5/17/2018 8:57:16 PM
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nexalizer wrote:


Don't think he was speaking about you at all.


Doc Buxin wrote:
I was going to leave this thread alone once I began to grasp the pointlessness of trying to help in this particular case


That post was clearly full of passive aggressive condescension directed at me.
 
nexalizer
#77 Posted : 5/17/2018 8:57:56 PM

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It is interesting that you interpret it that way.
This is the time to really find out who you are and enjoy every moment you have. Take advantage of it.
 
Mister_Niles
#78 Posted : 5/17/2018 9:48:24 PM

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I'm not going to read this thread. It looks like another one that has gone off the rails because of people's egos Smile

I just want to say that ego death or ego dissolution is what I seek. It's taken me a long time to get to where I am. Lots of practice and slow, intentional work. I find it to be glorious. The process of the ego dissolving and re-integrating. Both are wonderful
the process used to be painful and panic inducing. Working with sublingual caapi extracts and repeated, low doses of vaporized dmt helped me get comfortable with the space. I played in the shallow end for awhile. A couple years. Now, when I have a full ego dissolution, it's often unexpected and at low doses. 15mgs with cappi was my deepest ever. Or, highest ever. It was an ascension.
Welcome Home Mister_Niles. We've Been Waiting For You.


"Don't worry. When it happens, you won't be able to not let it do its thing. You won't have the ability to distinguish a pen from a hippopotamus"
- Art Van D'lay
 
hug46
#79 Posted : 5/17/2018 10:11:44 PM

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Doc Buxin wrote:


I was going to leave this thread alone once I began to grasp the pointlessness of trying to help in this particular case, however, in light of this post from hug46, I feel the need to further clarify my position a little bit more.


First of all thanks for replying Doc. I am glad that you didn't think "oh god , that hug46 is such a twat!! I am not going to even wate my time in writing a response.." But to be fair the OP mentioned that they did benzos once or twice a week which resulted in you going into an anti benzo rant, which is fair enough, but the way your posts were worded made it sound like OP was constantly blocking his problems out with benzos.
ie ...."when one is employing anxiolytic pharmaceuticals 52-104 times per year" this sounds much more dramatic than once or twice a week. Let's say OP was doing 20mg of valium twice a week. That works out at just over 2 grams of valium in a year.



I appreciate your experience and for the most part i agree with all of your last post but in my experience my most blissful psychedelic experinces have been while i was on heroin or methadone. I think that i took opiates due to anxiety. But having said that i have got more personal growth through having challenging experiences rather than blissful ones. It could be argued that if the OP wanted a more bearable transition that they would be better off taking a benzo before lift off. And probably not taking so much DMT in one go would help aswell.

To be honest i do agree with the OP that some answers have been a bit condescending to him/her. Calling it cultish is a bit over the top. I'd be more likely to go with describing it as The WE ARE ALL ONE NON DUALITY boys club. Like the brownies but with added patchouli oil.


be safe

my music
 
pitubo
#80 Posted : 5/18/2018 12:00:28 AM

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hug46 wrote:
To be honest i do agree with the OP that some answers have been a bit condescending to him/her. Calling it cultish is a bit over the top. I'd be more likely to go with describing it as The WE ARE ALL ONE NON DUALITY boys club. Like the brownies but with added patchouli oil.

Hug46, you give a fine synopsis of the noisy parts of this thread. I'd almost be tempted to join your cult if you had one.

Amidst all the different emotions that this thread seems to have stirred in many contributors, I personally found much hilarity in watching people climb the barricades in a divisive argument over "all is one".
 
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