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Unbearable ego death - could it be different? Options
 
sighmon
#1 Posted : 5/12/2018 12:44:18 PM
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I'd arguably had a few breakthroughs before but nothing coming close to what I'd read in some reports. One day, after smoking from the same classic vapor genie for a while without ever properly cleaning it, I accidentally got a huge dose which could easily have been 100-200mg. Maybe it was a new lighter or I was holding it differently or whatever. I didn't even fully breathe in a single time but it was the densest vapor I'd ever had and then something happened that never had before.

I'd had sort of ego deaths before but it was more like getting extremely immersed but this time was different. It was like violently getting ripped from my physical body. I remember trying to swallow but half way through I got disconnected from my body completely and could not finish swallowing. At that moment I knew I was in for hell of a ride. The next thing I remember is feeling like I was having a horrible realization about the nature of reality, also with a character of deja-vu. It felt like waking up from a nice dream into a nightmarish reality. Remembering that all that is important to me was just an illusion. Then I went into an intense ego death like never before.

The most similar experience I'd had before was actually on lsd, not dmt. It felt like I was becoming one with everything. I was the entire universe as a single conscious being, but I did not have control over anything, I was just forced to experience everything. A horrible onslaught of chaotic experience, all at the same time, but time didn't really seem to exist. The experience was also very physical. I felt like being pulled, twisted, contorted, twitching uncontrollably in both ecstasy and pain. Feeling every emotion and sensation at the same time, experiencing everything that is possible repeating infinitely. And it was unbearable. Unbelievably stressful and unrelenting. All I wanted was for it to end.

Then came the next stage. I kind of found myself back in reality, but at that point I did not understand reality yet, and I still kind of thought reality was what I had experienced just before. I was still tripping hard at this point but I was walking around in my apartment and trying to make sense of anything, feeling horrible existential anxiety. Feeling trapped in this state of insanity. I thought I was stuck in a time loop of sorts, with constant intense feelings of deja-vu. Every action I took trying to escape this was followed by a horrible realization that I done the same fruitlessly an infinite number of times before. As I was walking around in my apartment and looking at objects everything felt weird and wrong. Some words popped up in my mind, basic things like my name, my girlfriend's name, the name of my country, city, "human", "room", "mirror", "microwave", "language", "word" ... but I did not understand language yet or what those words meant fully and they seemed strange and wrong somehow. I was feeling horrible existential anxiety while this lasted but eventually I regained more clarity and soon I was mostly back to normal.

With all my previous dmt trips I had been back to normal 100% after just half an hour or so but this time there were some lingering effects. Thinking of the trip was causing intense feeling of existential dread. This was in the evening and I went to bed soon after and a horrible night filled with nightmares followed. It's been a few weeks now and I'm still feeling some derealization and the occasional anxiety/dread. Most nights I've been having nightmares, particularly ones with sleep paralysis. I've had quite intense flashbacks at night, almost like being back in that trip, and I'm not sure if they were dreams. Also very unusual nightmares in general and very physical ones, like where gravity was going crazy and I was being pulled and thrown around in my bed and against the wall.

It is getting better and I've had weaker but similar after effects twice before, once after weed and once after lsd so I'm not particularly worried. Also benzos always make it go away 100% while they last (and I have an ample prescription for my social anxiety). It is at the worst while I am alone and the derealization is usually triggered visually. Just today I found out that strangely wearing shades in my apartment helps a lot. Maybe because when wearing shades altered visuals are natural/expected so when I get the feeling that what I'm seeing is somehow strange/wrong it doesn't trigger anxiety as much.


Aaanyway, let's get to the reason why I'm writing all of this:
I've read so many glowing reports about ego death. About a glowing warm white light, infinity, nothingness, a peacefulness, relaxation, serenity, bliss etc.
People often write that you may feel anxiety on the comeup but after your ego dies there is no negativity anymore. Now I wasn't feeling anxiety at the peak but it was extremely unpleasant.

So I wonder, is this the same ego death that everyone is experiencing and I'm just not the kind of person who enjoys it? Or are there very different kinds of ego deaths. I really want to experience this peaceful kind of ego death that people describe but I'm afraid to try for I never want to experience the one that I have again and I kind of feel all the psychedelics I've tried so far are taking me to this same place at higher doses.

I might be able to obtain some 5-meo which I guess is most often associated with what I want to experience and also said to be distinctly different from traditional psychedelics but I'm still afraid it might be the same for me and that this is just how I personally experience ego death.

Is there maybe anyone who's had both experiences, the one I described and the positive one of "the void" that so many people write about?

 

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Doc Buxin
#2 Posted : 5/12/2018 8:03:12 PM

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From my perspective, as someone who has been through many insanity-inducing, ego-eradicating psychedelic trips (which some people might usually label "good" or "bad" ), I would implore you to take a long break from psychedelics to allow for a long integration period so as to let your heart, mind, soul and body process this experience as best they can.

Furthermore, I would highly recommend taking up regular meditation practices and exercise to work through your anxiety and working with your doctor regarding weaning off the benzos.

Now, some here will disagree with this point of view, but I stand firmly by it. Benzodiazepines, (like all pharmaceutical drugs that are used to cover up anxiety issues) will retard spiritual growth (I won't even get into what havoc they wreak upon the body/mind) and you will only get so far with psychedelics while employing them.

Again, some here will disagree with this point of view, but I've learned many things through a life lived always taking the path least traveled. At the acupuncture clinic that I used to manage, we treated so many sweet, kind people for benzodiazepine (and many other anxiolytic) withdrawal symptoms that ranged from mild to horrendous. These poor people had no idea what they were getting into when the doctor prescribed these drugs to them. Like most folks, they never considered that simply suppressing anxiety with a drug does absolutely nothing to resolve the underlying issues that produce the symptoms of anxiety in the first place.

Remember that the most precious, valuable things in life are hard-earned and the more responsibility you take for your entire self, in all its aspects, good, bad and ugly, the more free you become as a human soul existing on this plane. Life is incredibly hard work all the time if one expects to be ready to die at any moment, which more or less is the ultimate goal, yes? I mean, death is the ultimate psychedelic trip that we all are going to take sooner or later, guaranteed.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck sighmon!
Freedom's so hard
When we are all bound by laws
Etched in the scheme of nature's own hand
Unseen by all those who fail
In their pursuit of fate
 
sighmon
#3 Posted : 5/12/2018 8:41:42 PM
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Oh, I'm not "on" benzos like that. I only take them like once or twice a week for stressful situations at work. Been using them like that for years and I have no tolerance. I've also never taken them together with psychedelics. They are extremely effective though, both for anxiety and this derealization I've been having now.

I wouldn't trip again until I'm fully back to normal anyway.

Frankly, I don't buy into this idea that death is anything like psychedelic experiences. Near death experiences perhaps but not actual death. It seems far more natural to think of death as unconsciousness, rather than some special conscious state.
 
wad
#4 Posted : 5/12/2018 9:29:39 PM
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You must surrender, accept, and then the death of the ego will be many times easier. Just your connection with the body is too strong, and you can not imagine how to exist without it. Be a point of view, not a part of the body, and everything will be all right.
 
sighmon
#5 Posted : 5/12/2018 9:44:42 PM
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But I was completely disconnected from my body before it even really started. At the peak I don't think I was resisting. It didn't seem like there was a point in resisting. Even during the come-up I don't think I resisted. I've resisted in earlier trips but this time I didn't feel like I was given a choice. Like I said, it kinda felt like awaking from a nice dream into a horrible reality. I wished it were otherwise but I knew that it wasn't, so there was no way to resist I could think of. I mean, how do you resist reality? And I certainly didn't resist "going further" in any sense because I thought this was the worst possible state and I would've gladly accepted any change at all.
 
DmnStr8
#6 Posted : 5/12/2018 10:28:42 PM

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sighmon wrote:
....it kinda felt like awaking from a nice dream into a horrible reality.


So your reality was replaced. Accept it as best you can. Attempting to make any sense of it is a moot point. If it was horrible, accept that. Move on and try and not dwell on it. Perhaps there are some things going on in your mind and in your life that brought about this reaction to your trip. We are never guaranteed a smooth ride. Try and take a step back from it all and enjoy the insanity or unsanity.

If this happens again, it will be familiar to you. You may have an easier time stepping outside of the emotions that come up and observe from a new perspective. It sounds like your perspective was from that of the ego. Ego death, there is no longer you. Only awareness. Be aware of everything you are experiencing, observing and feeling and do your best to step out of it. Allowing it to be what it chooses to be. Acceptance and gratitude is very strong medicine.

You may challenge all this and say 'I did let go! I was outside of it! etc..' My opinion is that if you had bad feelings and a difficult trip, you were in it with your ego. It suffered and you attached to it and suffered with it. You can choose a new perspective at any time. These experiences can be laughed off and chocked up to a hyperslap. Move on and look forward to the next pleasent trip. Try and work on any issues or problems you may be having in your life and this will aid you in promoting a better journey next go round with psychedelics.

It is perfectly normal and ok to get sucked into a difficult trip. It happens to the best of us. Like I said, don't dwell on it. Accept that it occured and try and find some humor in it if you can. I hope you can find a new perspective that empowers you. When things are difficult is when we can learn the most. Look for any lessons you can find.

I hope this is helpful for you in some way. We all approach things differently. I am sure you will find your own way and integrate this experience in time.

Peace!
"The soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts." ~Marcus Aurelius
 
sighmon
#7 Posted : 5/12/2018 11:00:31 PM
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I don't think I'm having much difficulty integrating the specific experience. I don't think it was anything more than a delusion/hallucination so it doesn't affect me much. The problem is more that the trip showed me how fragile my conception of reality is which triggered a general kind of existential anxiety. Like the idea of possibly being a "brain in a vat" for example. Of course I knew about/pondered such things on occasion before but in a more detached way. Now such thoughts fill me with a kind of anxiety/dread that they didn't use to.

But anyways, this thread is not about coping with the experience. I'm sure this will go away with time. I'm just curious if it is possible for me to experience the positive "void" that I often see described or if this already was it and I just interpret it differently/cannot enjoy it. Of course in a sense every trip may be unique and it's different for every person too but I thought ego-death was sort of an exception to that. At least there seems to be this "void" that many people experience almost exactly the same.

So what you're suggesting then is that this is a "lesser stage" of full ego death which would be like "the void"? Have you experienced the void? And have you ever experienced something like what I did? Or a different ego death experience altogether?

I guess trying it again might help but it's gonna be a very long time before I dare to try something with the expectation of going back to this state if ever. If I knew on the other hand that 5-meo practically guarantees a different kind of experience it would be a lot easier.
 
DmnStr8
#8 Posted : 5/13/2018 3:32:46 AM

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sighmon wrote:
I don't think I'm having much difficulty integrating the specific experience. I don't think it was anything more than a delusion/hallucination so it doesn't affect me much. The problem is more that the trip showed me how fragile my conception of reality is which triggered a general kind of existential anxiety. Like the idea of possibly being a "brain in a vat" for example. Of course I knew about/pondered such things on occasion before but in a more detached way. Now such thoughts fill me with a kind of anxiety/dread that they didn't use to.

But anyways, this thread is not about coping with the experience. I'm sure this will go away with time. I'm just curious if it is possible for me to experience the positive "void" that I often see described or if this already was it and I just interpret it differently/cannot enjoy it. Of course in a sense every trip may be unique and it's different for every person too but I thought ego-death was sort of an exception to that. At least there seems to be this "void" that many people experience almost exactly the same.

So what you're suggesting then is that this is a "lesser stage" of full ego death which would be like "the void"? Have you experienced the void? And have you ever experienced something like what I did? Or a different ego death experience altogether?

I guess trying it again might help but it's gonna be a very long time before I dare to try something with the expectation of going back to this state if ever. If I knew on the other hand that 5-meo practically guarantees a different kind of experience it would be a lot easier.


Thanks for the clarification!

I believe I have been in the so-called 'void'. Total nothingness. Void of light, sound, and ego. It felt familiar and also felt like I was only an awareness. I had no me left. I was in this dark place and that was it. I have also had the opposite, in the light. That also felt familiar, like home. I felt peace and joy and gratitude. In this light was just an awareness with no remnants of me. I felt as if I was everything.

The void....the light... I dunno if these are good enough words to describe it all. In both places I lost myself entirely and felt I was in these places for eons. A part of me feels like I am in these places all the time. Existing in both, simultaneously.

I would not say you experienced anything 'lesser'. The ego can be dissolved in so many ways. It does what it can to survive. Clawing, kicking and screaming. When it is gone it is gone. You lose any sense of who you were. Sounds like you were right there.

Do you feel like your ego died? If so, what remained? And why was what remained feeling so like it all was unbearable? Why was this new reality horrible? My feeling is that the ego was still present enable for these feeling to be present. What do you think?
"The soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts." ~Marcus Aurelius
 
Doc Buxin
#9 Posted : 5/13/2018 5:50:30 AM

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sighmon wrote:
...I only take them like once or twice a week...




I'm sorry. I think you misunderstood my seriousness regarding the benzodiazepine factor.


May you find your Peace
Freedom's so hard
When we are all bound by laws
Etched in the scheme of nature's own hand
Unseen by all those who fail
In their pursuit of fate
 
sighmon
#10 Posted : 5/13/2018 9:02:40 AM
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Also, experiencing something so different from reality made me more aware that I'm not experiencing reality directly but rather through a model in my head built from qualia. And the idea of what I'm seeing not being something external but something inside my brain kind of creeps me out/makes me feel some dread for some reason. Only my visual qualia trigger this though for some reason.

I also was only awareness in a sense. I didn't have a human body and I didn't have real thoughts either at the peak I think, but I still had a will kind of (which wanted anything but this) though arguably the whole universe was my "body" and I was aware of everything anything or anyone was experiencing in the universe and experiencing it myself. Or at least that's how I interpreted it right after the experience, inspired by other reports and the kind of psychedelic mysticism I've read about. After thinking about it more, probably what it actually was is rather that I just had very chaotic abnormal inputs on all my senses, maybe from some kind of synesthesia or just internal noise.

What you describe sounds exactly like what I'm looking for. I'm wondering though, when people say "I felt as if I was everything", what do you mean exactly? Because that's basically what made my experience bad, because I literally felt
it and it was just too much to take. I felt like I was experiencing good and bad things at the same time, but that didn't make the experience neutral. Imagine listening to your favorite song, that may be pleasant, but listening to your 10 favorite songs at the same time is not gonna be 10 times as pleasant or probably pleasant at all. That's how I felt on all my senses, including physical sensations which were the worst part. But if it's not like you're experiencing everything, then how do you know you are everything?

When I read your other descriptions it sounds kind of like sensory deprivation which I would probably find pleasant and relaxing but that part is ambiguous and could also mean the exact opposite.

I didn't feel like the ego died so much as I realized it had never existed. That was during the short come-up, right after being disconnected from my physical body. Arguably I had a "new ego" after that, but it had nothing to do with my normal one, and it was very basic, without thoughts or memories, only awareness, chaotic perceptions that were just felt but not attributable to anything like a body part and a will sort of.
 
DmnStr8
#11 Posted : 5/13/2018 2:55:56 PM

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I would heed the advice from Doc!


It can all feel very chaotic at times. So much coming in at the same time that it can be hard to make anything out of it. Focus is something that helps. When you are in a room of a large group of people, like a party, and you are talking to someone, you can focus on that one conversation you are having. The rest of the noise can be droned out.

I call all the noise 'side shows'. Try and pay attention to what is right in front of you. Try and focus on one thing. Try and let it all go. Intention can be very helpful to aid this. Meditation prior to lift off can be helpful. Maybe try a lower dose and work up. Find a sweet spot where it doesn't all feel chaotic. You could also think about harmalas. Harmalas when combined with DMT can provide a relatively gentler experience. DMT alone can be very much like a bungee jump, intense and straight up and down. Adding harmalas can feel much smoother in transitions and that can help focus.

Either way you slice it, it sounds like a powerful experience. Quiet your mind before next time, set and intention and stick with it. Look for silence in your mind before the journey. I think we all get caught up in side shows in this reality and in hyperspace. The noise of life can overwhelm, the noise of the mind can feel chaotic, the pure stream of information we recieve when we ingest DMT can feel out of control. I feel if you are experiencing chaos, that is a lesson. A lesson to be less chaotic in your mind. Intention and focus is what I think are needed. Make of this what you will, it is just my two sense. I feel the more you are talking about it, the more it will start to make sense to you. Talking about this stuff really helps.


"The soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts." ~Marcus Aurelius
 
sighmon
#12 Posted : 5/13/2018 3:39:20 PM
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I'll definitely be more mindful with dosage and start low when I dare tripping again. I've bought a gvg and a milligram scale to be sure I avoid accidental breakthroughs like that in the future.

My set & setting was always perfect, but actually I've found with dmt breakthroughs unlike with more mild psychedelics it doesn't really carry over into the trip anyway.

The problem with trying to steer the experience like you're describing is that at the peak of intense trips I never remember stuff like that, and even with less intense ones I may remember but I can no longer understand why I'm supposed to do it, or even get paranoid about it and suddenly think it's some sort of a trick on me and that I mustn't do it. Have you done that consciously or is it more like you intuitively learn it after tripping a lot?

Also, when you experienced the void, did you still have that kind of noise but were able to ignore it?
 
DmnStr8
#13 Posted : 5/13/2018 3:48:52 PM

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sighmon wrote:
Have you done that consciously or is it more like you intuitively learn it after tripping a lot?

Also, when you experienced the void, did you still have that kind of noise but were able to ignore it?


It becomes more familiar and therefore easier in many ways. What helps the most is focus and intention before the journey. So much of what we experience is out of our hands once we touch the pipe to our lips.

The noise I think is in the mind, in the ego. When the ego is not present, the noise is not present. Meditation has helped me see this in my own mind. It is a lot of noise and when observed, over time, the noise of the mind settles. Practice meditation and I feel you will understand this all to clearly. The mind is a tool, another sense, yet we buy into it and it becomes the greater thing. The mind and the thoughts it creates are not the essence of who you are. It is only one tool, one sense in the greater being that you are. There is so much more to us than the noise in our minds. The silence is there if we seek it within ourselves.
"The soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts." ~Marcus Aurelius
 
ETERNAL
#14 Posted : 5/15/2018 5:55:56 AM

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DmnStr8 is giving you very useful advice. I hope you got something out of what he said.

The only thing I might add is that the ego is an impermanent reality. You are not an ego, you are the eternal awareness of all consciousness. Don't focus so much on losing you, ultimately there is no you. Focus more on embracing the truth of our oneness, not yourself. For me it was easy because all I ever cared about is the truth. I was willing to die for it and at a young age I knew it was there waiting for me to come of age. For some, it can be scary to let go of the illusion of self. I assure you when you are truly ready, there will be nothing but unconditional love waiting.

The realization that you are something ineffable that is beyond life and death and also an expression of the great spirit is a powerful moment. The moment of the eternal now. One of an ineffable nature. The nature of the true self. The eternal soul.

Don't focus so much on a void of nothingness, this is your ego mind playing tricks on itself. There is no such thing as nothing, only everything. Let go and dissolve into the light until nothing is left of you. This is the true and permanent awakening. The absolute reality of infinite oneness and eternal love.

What others mean when they say "I felt like everything." is exactly that. We are everything. There is only one consciousness. Everything is this one consciousness and all things are a manifestation of that. It is the great spirit. It is all being and the ground of all being. It is the absolute reality and also the illusion. I call it God, some call it Brahman, Buddha, non-duality, oneness, infinite consciousness etc. Ultimately what we are talking about now is the absolute reality. It is beyond logical understanding. It has to be experienced and when you do, it's undeniable. It is the spirit. The importance is being aware of it and embracing the truth of divinity and love. Acknowledgement of it will enhance your awareness of it and knowledge will be given to you when the time is right.

I hope this is enough information to help you for now.
Peace.
There is only this and now. What this is exists as one.
 
tatt
#15 Posted : 5/15/2018 1:22:29 PM

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All great posts <3

It's hard to truly and openly face those deep waters when we enter them (willingly or unwillingly), especially when you can become flooded with those realizations - when it feels so inescapably innate to the entirety of the experience as it's happening, self-evident, (and often laughable at how self-evident it is) infusing itself into every fiber of your being and that knowing that can come on the real deep ones, it can become inescapable past a certain point, while you're in the depths of it.

Just keep working with it, don't get too hung up on others and what they've experienced, the fact that you're able to even experience what you have ..at all...that's something so incredibly special imho, something a whole lot of people can't say that they've done [referring to most everyday folk] or will ever do.

And try not to ever get used to just one experience or a string of experiences, things can always flip without warning, things can change in the blink of an eye. All in transition

















 
tseuq
#16 Posted : 5/15/2018 1:59:26 PM

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In terms of integration, it is an integral approach I'd like to emphazise. It is the paradoxon, all one and inseparable in the now, forever, and separate (in the illusion of self) at the same time (now). More realities (All) can exist at the same time in the same frame and we live (are) both (all).

tatt wrote:
And try not to ever get used to just one experience or a string of experiences, things can always flip without warning, things can change in the blink of an eye.


Haha, these events are "small" reminder to keep online (open and mindful) in the here and now and not to fall back into unconscious autopilot of the "known". If fallen back, these slaps will definitely wake you up... hahaha..Twisted Evil

I (mind) always want something to cling myself on, to know something to hold on, maybe to rest the mind and to derive orientation in minds dualistic paradigm (f.e. what is (dys-)functional for my living? What is right, what's wrong, ..). To me, it appears like "sitting", my mind wants to sit (know, understand,..), to make it easy and comfortable. Everytime I think "Ah.. now I know" and try to sit, life just tears away the chair of illusion of "knowing" and I fall on the ground. Thus, keep on standing and being still.

Be here and now.

tseuq
Everything's sooo peyote-ful..
 
ETERNAL
#17 Posted : 5/15/2018 2:19:18 PM

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tseuq wrote:
It is the paradoxon, all one and inseparable in the now, forever, and separate (in the illusion of self) at the same time (now). More realities (All) can exist at the same time in the same frame and we live (are) both (all).

Thumbs up
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65d3e4c5ed6ec7d05e45597ec4ffc4ae.jpg (72kb) downloaded 236 time(s).
There is only this and now. What this is exists as one.
 
ETERNAL
#18 Posted : 5/15/2018 3:39:29 PM

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“You are awareness, disguised as a person.” ― Eckhart Tolle
There is only this and now. What this is exists as one.
 
sighmon
#19 Posted : 5/15/2018 5:56:46 PM
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I just can't believe in this psychedelic mysticism. The feeling of oneness is too easily explained as a delusion due to altered brain function. It even seems quite obvious that the more limited your mental faculties the more reality would seem like that. Not to say that it couldn't be true but I don't think the psychedelic experience is credible evidence for it.

Also, "unconsciousness" doesn't really seem to fit into this worldview.

For me, the experience hasn't really provided any answers of this sort, only brought up or made me more aware of the questions.
 
DmnStr8
#20 Posted : 5/16/2018 3:10:24 AM

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sighmon wrote:
I just can't believe in this psychedelic mysticism. The feeling of oneness is too easily explained as a delusion due to altered brain function. It even seems quite obvious that the more limited your mental faculties the more reality would seem like that. Not to say that it couldn't be true but I don't think the psychedelic experience is credible evidence for it.

Also, "unconsciousness" doesn't really seem to fit into this worldview.

For me, the experience hasn't really provided any answers of this sort, only brought up or made me more aware of the questions.


Uh-huh.... and.....? Confused
"The soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts." ~Marcus Aurelius
 
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