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Problematic monotubs - what to do? Options
 
blue.magic
#1 Posted : 5/12/2018 7:09:15 AM

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I have two monotubs spawned on the samy day (Apr 22) yet one fruits weirdly and the other just started lightly pinning after placing wax paper on the substrate for several days.

The fruits are dwarf, thick and the veils are glued to the legs so I cannot tell which are mature by the veil breaking. Some are already mature but others have not even started. It's hard to decide whether to harvest or not.

This is really confusing. I've read that thick fruits might be from too much oxygen. But I kept the monotubs closed until fruiting with only 4 AE holes with loose polyfill and several small CO2 holes.

Please see the attached images. I would be grateful for any ideas and advice what to do.
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blue.magic
#2 Posted : 5/12/2018 8:36:02 AM

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The possible issues I can think of:

- too much FAE during colonization (some people tape the FAE holes during colonization - I didn't know that so maybe there was too much oxygen)

- polyfill packed too lightly

- maybe CO2 holes should be covered with a filter (?)

- too much water

- water puddles (not sure how large the droplets can be until it's a problem)

- bad lighting (but previous monotub was okay under the very same lighting)

- more FAE in the whole room? maybe venting air throughout the day?
 
Enkidu.uzt
#3 Posted : 5/12/2018 10:50:20 AM

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Are these clones ? Could possibly just be genetics.

I know that too little FAE can cause long and skinny mushrooms, so i suppose too much FAE could potentially cause the opposite, but i've never really heard or seen that myself.

Those are definitely some HUGE fruits.

I don't think too much FAE during colonization would effect the mushrooms much besides effecting the sub prior to fruiting, and hurting pin formation and fruit formation.

High co2 is definitely preferable during colonization. This is a quote from Roger Rabbit from the shroomery, "Mushroom mycelium consumes air, just like we do. It also produces CO2, apparently as a byproduct, just like us. One benefit of a high CO2 level during colonization, is that less of the actual carbon in the substrate is converted to CO2 gas. In other words, if you allowed too much fresh air during colonization, more of the substrate would be 'consumed' by the time the mycelium got to the fruiting stage. A rapid and sudden decrease in the ambient CO2 levels is a pinning trigger in cultivation, so adding fresh air at the same time as full colonization and the other pinning triggers helps ensure a full, even flush."

So in short, during colonization, you definitely want to keep co2 levels high by limiting FAE. Increase FAE after full colonization to promote pin formation and healthy fruit growth.

For misting you don't want to allow "puddles" to form. You just want to mist until you see beads of moisture, then wait and allow them to evaporate before misting again. I was under the impression that mono's are more self regulating, I actually use a different tek for my grows and have never used a mono. Here is a good link on surface conditions. https://www.shroomery.or.../Number/23999053/page/1

Here is another link which may be helpful
https://www.shroomery.or...lat.php/Number/17332777

Nothing I see would indicate an issue with lighting. You use a 6500k bulb? I don't think the problem is lighting.

Not necessarily sure more fae in the room would have much impact unless you have a fan for instance, and it causes too much FAE and dries your sub out or lowers humidity.

I apologize if this is not helpful, or things you already know, making it redundant to you.

I'm assuming your sub was field capacity for both tubs? Again, genetics could be the cause of the difference in fruiting times. Even clones can fruit slightly different times when spawned simultaneously imo.

I'm not really experienced enough to look at pictures and tell if for instance it is too dry, too wet, etc. Always suck at this. I can do it for my tubs only because I know all the variable that went into the tub.

Imo the second tub could possibly benefit from misting, but I could be wrong. High humidity is definitely optimal for pin formation. Largest amounts of FAE possible while maintaining high humidity is preferable, but I wouldn't sacrifice humidity for more FAE.

Nothing against the nexus or anything, but shroomery.org has a lot of very very experienced and knowledgable people when it comes to mushrooms.

You may want to consider making an account and taking your cultivation questions over there as well to get some more feedback.

They really know their stuff over there. Not saying people here don't. But they have members official members who basically go around and no post or question goes unanswered, and they give basically spot on advice to the cause.

For the top tub you could definitely try limiting FAE to see if that helps grow longer skinny fruits, but at this point they're kind of already mature. Look about ready to harvest. I'm really struggling to think of reasons for those fruits besides genetics, but I have only been doing this for about a year or two. Next time you could try limiting FAE if you observe it happening and see if it helps.

Hope maybe some of this helps.

Good luck and if you have any questions i'll do my best to try and help further.
 
blue.magic
#4 Posted : 5/13/2018 10:51:03 PM

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First of all, thanks for the elaborate answer, Enkidu. I appreciate that. I spent hours on forums and read two books on mushroom cultivation, but practice is always different from the theory.

Enkidu.uzt wrote:
Are these clones ? Could possibly just be genetics.


They are mixed genetics (multispore) though both tubs come from the same liquid culture.

Enkidu.uzt wrote:
Those are definitely some HUGE fruits.


Yes, 72 grams dry weight. I thought they were still small but this was a great flush weight-wise.

Enkidu.uzt wrote:

So in short, during colonization, you definitely want to keep co2 levels high by limiting FAE. Increase FAE after full colonization to promote pin formation and healthy fruit growth.


Yes I've read in "The Psilocybin Mushroom Bible", that too much O2 causes short and thick fruits. Too much CO2 however, causes tall and skinny fruits and there is a sweet spot somewhere in between (for fruiting).

I through I limited FAE but probably not enough. The CO2 vent holes were open the whole time and the polyfill was probably too loose. Additionaly, I kept the tub in punched trash bag during colonization (punched for GE, but this was probably not necessary).

It seems only minimum GE (gas exchange) is needed for colonization, so I will tape the CO2 holes with micropore tape, tape the FAE holes completely and won't punch the trash bag next time.

Enkidu.uzt wrote:
For misting you don't want to allow "puddles" to form. You just want to mist until you see beads of moisture, then wait and allow them to evaporate before misting again.


Ah ha! Thanks, I will check this twice a day. There were minuscule droplets on both substrates and lots of condensation on walls so I avoided misting. But then I've read on Shroomery that condensation is not a good indicator of surface moisture.

Some people say monotubs should not be even touched until the first harvest. This might be true only if there are ideal conditions, which is not always the case.

Enkidu.uzt wrote:
Nothing I see would indicate an issue with lighting. You use a 6500k bulb? I don't think the problem is lighting.


Yes, a trusty 6500k flurescent tube (linear) on 12 hour cycle. I had several successful grows with it so this is probably okay.

Enkidu.uzt wrote:
Nothing against the nexus or anything, but shroomery.org has a lot of very very experienced and knowledgable people when it comes to mushrooms.


Yes I pondered this several times. It's probably time to sign up there Smile

Enkidu.uzt wrote:
For the top tub you could definitely try limiting FAE to see if that helps grow longer skinny fruits, but at this point they're kind of already mature. Look about ready to harvest. I'm really struggling to think of reasons for those fruits besides genetics, but I have only been doing this for about a year or two. Next time you could try limiting FAE if you observe it happening and see if it helps.


FAE is most likely the core problem here since it also affects moisture, which is probably the secondary issue.

One advice was to dunk the stalled monotub and then add vermiculite casing. Some people use wax paper to induce fruiting. I don't like doing casing but will try the misting and fanning approach and then go for re-dunking. Casing is maybe important for the maintenance-free monotubs as it slows down evaporation, creates micro-climate and provides a line of defence against contams. Opinions on "to case or not to case" seem to be 50:50 even between experts. Will try that, it's cheap and maybe worth going the extra mile.

Some poeple advised to toss the monotub after week of no activity, but I had successful grows from tubs that stalled for 3 weeks and then exploded Smile This was in winter when temperatures were very low and I used too little spawn. They still grew, it only took quite some time.
 
 
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