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Salvinorin A Extraction and Purification Options
 
Gone-and-Back
#41 Posted : 9/28/2013 12:22:37 AM
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Are there other salvia plants that contain other salvinorin compounds though? Phlux had mentioned in an earlier post salvinorin c. Does this exist?
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Cosmic Spore
#42 Posted : 12/28/2013 1:39:46 PM

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Great work. I've liked this thread since before I started posting; I'd like to try this soon & have never used a coffee press.
I'm looking for one without any plastic, if possible.

gibran2 wrote:
I use a small 2-cup Bodum French coffee press to do my extractions (all glass and metal – no plastic) ...

Looked around at the Bodum French coffee press and one of the amazon reviews says that it has a "black plastic collar".
Is that so?

What type of tool do you use to siphon: pipette, turkey baster, siphon hose, etc.?
gibran2 wrote:
Start with 250g or more of crushed leaves..
Is there a such thing as crushed too fine?

Step 2 says "Pour off acetone through a very fine strainer". How fine does it need to be?

I think I can follow directions, but it would be great if there were a step-by-step pictoral of post #7.
rOm wrote:
Also there are plenty of teks on the net ... yet just the crude extraction method is on the WIKI here.

I thought somebody could post a pictorial there.
Exactly.
 
gibran2
#43 Posted : 12/28/2013 2:21:25 PM

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Cosmic Spore wrote:
Great work. I've liked this thread since before I started posting; I'd like to try this soon & have never used a coffee press.
I'm looking for one without any plastic, if possible.

gibran2 wrote:
I use a small 2-cup Bodum French coffee press to do my extractions (all glass and metal – no plastic) ...

Looked around at the Bodum French coffee press and one of the amazon reviews says that it has a "black plastic collar".
Is that so?

Yes, but it’s easily removable for our purposes.

Quote:
What type of tool do you use to siphon: pipette, turkey baster, siphon hose, etc.?

A glass turkey baster (which I actually used for its intended purpose this Thanksgiving!)

Quote:
gibran2 wrote:
Start with 250g or more of crushed leaves..
Is there a such thing as crushed too fine?

Yes – the finer the leaves, the more sediment, chlorophyll, etc. will be released. Salvinorin A is present in trichomes on the under-surface of leaves, so crushing doesn’t expose any more than is already there. Crushing is only to reduce the volume of leaf.

Quote:
Step 2 says "Pour off acetone through a very fine strainer". How fine does it need to be?

The strainer of a coffee press is good. The finer the strainer, the fewer solids that need to be removed in subsequent steps.

Quote:
I think I can follow directions, but it would be great if there were a step-by-step pictoral of post #7.
rOm wrote:
Also there are plenty of teks on the net ... yet just the crude extraction method is on the WIKI here.

I thought somebody could post a pictorial there.
Exactly.

I have over 300g of leaves waiting to be extracted, so maybe this Spring.
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rOm
#44 Posted : 12/30/2013 10:17:54 PM

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Hmm let the 2014 spring blow our mind Big grin
Seriously though, this not so forgiving entheogen deserve more research, it can shift one's life drastically Pleased

Smell like tea n,n spirit !
 
downwardsfromzero
#45 Posted : 5/6/2014 10:30:37 PM

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gibran2 wrote:
I have over 300g of leaves waiting to be extracted, so maybe this Spring.

Any news?
All posts by this user are purely fictitious and provided for entertainment purposes only.
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gibran2
#46 Posted : 5/7/2014 1:05:58 AM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
gibran2 wrote:
I have over 300g of leaves waiting to be extracted, so maybe this Spring.

Any news?

I've been busy busy. Haven't had time yet, but it's on my list. Smile
gibran2 is a fictional character. Any resemblance to anyone living or dead is purely coincidental.
 
downwardsfromzero
#47 Posted : 5/7/2014 2:21:46 AM

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gibran2 wrote:
downwardsfromzero wrote:
gibran2 wrote:
I have over 300g of leaves waiting to be extracted, so maybe this Spring.

Any news?

I've been busy busy. Haven't had time yet, but it's on my list. Smile

Know the feeling only too well! I'll try this as soon as I've manifested a plant or two of my own...
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Thinking of evaporating? Save money and the environment! Reuse your solvents!
 
caapi.colombia
#48 Posted : 5/15/2015 3:25:34 AM

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Lovely picture and yield Gibran2, i havent seen this because i wasnt registered.
Salvinorin alpha crystals: Here

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Final Incarnate
#49 Posted : 12/27/2016 7:31:14 PM

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What type of naphtha ?

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downwardsfromzero
#50 Posted : 1/1/2017 11:12:54 PM

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Quote:
What type of naphtha ?


Low boiling point petroleum spirits will clearly be superior.
All posts by this user are purely fictitious and provided for entertainment purposes only.
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Thinking of evaporating? Save money and the environment! Reuse your solvents!
 
Loveall
#51 Posted : 9/6/2017 1:45:52 PM

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Hello all, I'm humbled and grateful to be able to post as a full member for the first time here. My heart is full of joy, thanks.

I'm wondering if it could be possible to do a salt water wash before step #4 (in post #7 of this thread) to remove the chlorophyll. Sorry if this has been discussed before (I cannot find this being discussed before but my search skills are limited).

The motivation to use a salt water wash comes from here. Specifically the last paragraph,

Quote:
When we saturate the water with salt, before washing a polar extract suspended in a non polar solvent like hexane, it forces the chlorophyll into solution and washes it away.


So the tentative procedure/test would be to add salt water to the decanted acetone, shake to pickup the chlorophyll, and remove the water. If it works the water should turn green (?). Repeat until the water is clear. Then evaporate the acetone and see if we are closer to the final product thanks to the wash.

Any thoughts on this? Does anyone know of a reason why it will not work or mess up the extraction? Is there a thread or post discussing this I should go to and shamefully did not find? If no known feedback, I'll give it a try next time I ask my salvia plants for permission to collect some leaves for extraction.

Cheers and deepest thanks again.
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Mindlusion
#52 Posted : 9/6/2017 2:05:35 PM

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acetone isn't nonpolar enough to be washed with brine, some of the acetone will migrate into the polar layer. IPA would be a better choice, or a real non polar like chloroform
Expect nothing, Receive everything.
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Loveall
#53 Posted : 9/6/2017 3:26:11 PM

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Mindlusion wrote:
acetone isn't nonpolar enough to be washed with brine, some of the acetone will migrate into the polar layer. IPA would be a better choice, or a real non polar like chloroform


Ok, I believe you are saying it would not work because acetone is miscible in water so the brine would not separate, right? What if we added something like xylene or hexane to the acetone (like they do here), Would that allow the brine to separate out from the acetone/xylene mix)? Want to stay as close as possible to the tried and tested cold acetone extract and add a brine chlorophyll wash if possible before the first evaporation. Are you also suggesting we can use something other than brine for the hypothetical chlorophyll wash, or are you suggesting we use a different solvent instead of cold acetone for the initial dry leaf extraction?
“... (a) psychedelic substance occasionally causes psychotic behaviour in people who have not taken it.”
Excerpt from a McKenna talk transcript / audio.
 
Mindlusion
#54 Posted : 9/6/2017 6:34:50 PM

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only if it were soluble in those solvents, salvinorin a is insoluble in hexanes, im guessing its only relatively soluble in xylene at higher temperatures.

there are other ways to purify without doing the brine wash, why not just recrystallize? Or, just crash it out of the acetone by adding excess hexanes, stick it in the fridge, the chlorophyll will remain dissolved in the acetone/hexane

you can always evaporate the acetone and take it up in a different solvent, if it were me i might try recrystallizing in boiling IPA
Expect nothing, Receive everything.
"Experiment and extrapolation is the only means the organic chemists (humans) currrently have - in contrast to "God" (and possibly R. B. Woodward). "
He alone sees truly who sees the Absolute the same in every creature...seeing the same Absolute everywhere, he does not harm himself or others. - The Bhagavad Gita
"The most beautiful thing we can experience, is the mysterious. The source of all true art and science."
 
downwardsfromzero
#55 Posted : 9/6/2017 6:39:46 PM

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Loveall, re-read this, paying attention to step 5:
Quote:
I didn’t use the erowid TEK and I’d never use a TEK that uses a room-temp solvent for the initial extraction. You’ll extract very large amounts of waxes, oils, etc. that are very hard to remove.

Salvinorin A is very soluble in acetone, even when the acetone is at 0°F. Most of the lipids in the leaf (other than chlorophyll) are not very soluble in ice cold acetone. Also, salvinorin A is present on leaf surface and not inside cells, so it is easily removed without powdering leaves.[emphasis added]

Here’s a summary of the TEK I use (thanks to Sphere) --


1. Start with 250g or more of crushed leaves. The more leaves used, the easier it is to limit loss.

2. In batches (I used batches of 30g each), cover leaves with 0°F acetone and agitate/stir for 1 minute. Pour off acetone through a very fine strainer. Repeat 2 more times. (An extraction requires 3 minutes!)

3. Allow collected acetone to settle for 24 hours in a dark area. There will be sediment at the bottom of your container. Siphon off as much acetone as possible, being careful not to disturb sediment. Discard sediment.

4. Allow acetone to evaporate in a dark, well-ventilated area. You will be left with a bright green powder – about 1g per 100g of leaf. This powder is about 2 parts chlorophyll to 1 part salvinorin A.

5. Chlorophyll is somewhat soluble in naphtha, salvinorin A is insoluble in naphtha. Collect powder, and add about 50mL naphtha per gram, mix well. Allow to settle for several hours or overnight. Much of the chlorophyll will dissolve in the naphtha.

6. Siphon off as much naphtha as possible, being careful not to disturb sediment – the sediment is salvinorin A. Discard used naphtha.

7. Repeat steps 5, 6 two or three times – until no more chlorophyll will dissolve.

8. Chlorophyll is very soluble in isopropyl alcohol, salvinorin A is slightly soluble (0.7mg/mL). This step will remove all remaining chlorophyll, but will reduce yield especially if you use IPA liberally. Add about 50mL 99% IPA to sediment from step 6. (This will result in a loss of 35mg salvinorin A, but will remove most of the chlorophyll.) Stir, then allow to settle.

9. Siphon off IPA and repeat step 8 two more times. (Save the IPA – you might be able to get some salvinorin A out of it if you evap. it all and then repeat step 8 with the results.)

10. Add about 100mL or more acetone to the sediment. Stir. The salvinorin A will dissolve completely, some insoluble material will remain. Allow sediment to settle.

11. Siphon off acetone and put it in an evaporation dish. Discard sediment.
All posts by this user are purely fictitious and provided for entertainment purposes only.
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Loveall
#56 Posted : 9/7/2017 12:01:47 AM

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downwardsfromzero wrote:
Loveall, re-read this, paying attention to step 5:


The way I imagine it, step 5 removes Chlorophyll b (which is more easily soluble than Chlorophyll a). Once all of it is removed and the repeats of syphoned Naphtha come out clear, we need move on to IPA to proceed further and remove Chlorophyll a. Since IPA use results in carrying out salvinorin along with Chlorophyll, the purpose of step 5 is to minimize the use of IPA (only use it at the very end) so we end up with a larger amount of separated product. Shaded plants have a higher ratio of Chlorophyll b, so step 5 maybe most effective for those who keep their plants shaded before harvest (?). Maybe these details don't matter bottom line for step 5 is to remove as much Chlorophyll as possible before getting to the IPA.

To be clear: I'm guessing here. We may be able to check this by drying the syphoned IPA and naphtha and inspecting the Chlorophyll left behind: Chlorophyll b (from the dry naphtha) should look more yellow. Or we could find this info out there directly (but my searches have turned up nothing).

The TEK works great and makes sense as is. I'm just wondering if there is a different/alternative/simple way to separate the chlorophyll. I got excited (prematurely) when reading that there are folks that use simple brine washes in other applications to remove chlorophyll. In our case a brine wash on the acetone will not work as Mindlusion pointed out (thanks).

I'll take the feedback from Mindlusion and try some things. Will report back if anything interesting happens. Any feedback in the meantime always welcome.

“... (a) psychedelic substance occasionally causes psychotic behaviour in people who have not taken it.”
Excerpt from a McKenna talk transcript / audio.
 
Loveall
#57 Posted : 9/7/2017 1:38:57 PM

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Mindlusion wrote:
only if it were soluble in those solvents, salvinorin a is insoluble in hexanes, im guessing its only relatively soluble in xylene at higher temperatures.

there are other ways to purify without doing the brine wash, why not just recrystallize? Or, just crash it out of the acetone by adding excess hexanes, stick it in the fridge, the chlorophyll will remain dissolved in the acetone/hexane

you can always evaporate the acetone and take it up in a different solvent, if it were me i might try recrystallizing in boiling IPA


Sorry to bug you again Mindlusion, but while looking into your feedback I've found this. The key text being:

Onas Bolton wrote:
I've often found salt solutions to be less miscible with polar solvents than the pure solvents. For instance brine and acetone are not miscible while water and acetone are.


Based on the claim above, are you sure that a brine wash of the acetone pulls won't work to remove the Chlorophyll?

Also, I can't grasp how boiling IPA would be used. Can you elaborate?

To answer your question, motivation to not re-x with IPA is to come up with an alternative purification route for salvinorin that does not have the IPA carry salvinorin with it during clean up. Also it is fun to consider alternatives. I love your idea of crashing out with hexane.

Thanks for your feedback.
“... (a) psychedelic substance occasionally causes psychotic behaviour in people who have not taken it.”
Excerpt from a McKenna talk transcript / audio.
 
Mindlusion
#58 Posted : 9/7/2017 3:50:44 PM

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Loveall wrote:

Onas Bolton wrote:
I've often found salt solutions to be less miscible with polar solvents than the pure solvents. For instance brine and acetone are not miscible while water and acetone are.


Based on the claim above, are you sure that a brine wash of the acetone pulls won't work to remove the Chlorophyll?

Also, I can't grasp how boiling IPA would be used. Can you elaborate?

To answer your question, motivation to not re-x with IPA is to come up with an alternative purification route for salvinorin that does not have the IPA carry salvinorin with it during clean up. Also it is fun to consider alternatives. I love your idea of crashing out with hexane.

Thanks for your feedback.


yes its not completely miscible, it still will form two layers, i said that SOME of the acetone will migrate, but not all. IPA is the same way, with pure water it is miscible, but with brine it is completely immiscible , more than with acetone.

also the brine wash is not effective at removing the chlorophyll, most chlorophyll prefers to remain in the nonpolar phase, in the document you posted you can see the brine only turns light green while the non polar phase remained dark green. They were only using the brine to actually clean up the extracted chlorophyll, wash out and dry the non-polar phase a bit so they could take a better TLC.


gibran2 notes that salvinorin is only marginally soluble at room temperature (0.7mg/mL) so it should be appreciably more soluble at boiling temperatures, and even less soluble at cold temperatures in the fridge or freezer. While chlorophyll will should remain soluble at all temperatures. What you would do is add just enough boiling IPA to dissolve your extract, then it let it cool slowly and when its cooled down completely place it in the fridge to complete crystallization
Expect nothing, Receive everything.
"Experiment and extrapolation is the only means the organic chemists (humans) currrently have - in contrast to "God" (and possibly R. B. Woodward). "
He alone sees truly who sees the Absolute the same in every creature...seeing the same Absolute everywhere, he does not harm himself or others. - The Bhagavad Gita
"The most beautiful thing we can experience, is the mysterious. The source of all true art and science."
 
Loveall
#59 Posted : 9/8/2017 3:27:38 PM

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I did some small brine wash tests on dissolved Salvinorin/Chlorophyll in Acetone and in IPA. Did not work. Mindlusion, everything you said would go wrong went wrong. Was good to know what was happening thanks to your feedback (failing was kind of fun, Big grin ).

I also tired to crash out Salvinorin from Acetone. I failed to procure hexane so I used naphtha as a substitute (was this a bad move?). Nothing happened at room temp (added ~equal volume of naphtha to the acetone), after freezing it seems like some white xtals are forming but very few. Currently letting this evaporate and keeping an eye on it to see if more crashing occurs.

Planning to try the boiling IPA freeze re-x next. Have high hopes for this one which turns out to have been successfully tested experimentally (once again, Mindlusion's words come true Thumbs up ).

I did a brine wash on some dried mint leaves. The brine turned slightly green (expected). Based on this, I'll try to wash dried Salvia leaves in (warm?) brine until the brine runs clear (if it ever does), rinse in water to remove the residual salt, dry the wet leaves, then perform the chilled acetone extraction and see if we can get a white(er) dried extract. Probably won't work since acetone is good at absorbing chlorophyll, but you never know till you try.

Another option is washing the dried green acetone extract with brine until the brine comes out clear, then do a water rinse to remove any residual salt. Only white Salvinorin extract should remain.

Will report back with results. Feedback embraced. Cheers and love.

Edit: Salvinorin A has non-0 solubility in water (0.025 mg/ml). So it will need to be a concern account for when doing tests with a lot of water.





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Cactus Man
#60 Posted : 4/29/2018 8:08:09 PM

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wow never seen that much pure salvinorin a in my life

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