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5-meo-dmt extraction Options
 
Dwhitty76
#1 Posted : 10/24/2009 3:27:57 AM

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This question can probably be answered by ron, or some of the more chem savvy members of this beloved forum.

Swim has been trying to get his hands on 5-meo for a while with no luck at all.He's tried the Virola T. resins at higher dosages without the "minblowing" effects that one would expect from 5-meo.

I was also surfing around, thinking mabey there is a way to use chaliponga and try to isolate the 5-meo, from the NN, and bufotenine....no luck there.

I really have not come across any solid extraction methods,unless there is bufotenine preset (yopo).Or if i want to have some sonoran desert toads as pets, which i dont. Laughing

Swim is looking for a pure 5-meo experience, and many of the vendors that we shouldn't be speaking about, either don't sell it or have been shut down......no luck there either, so i was wondering if anyone had a solid way to extract 5-meo.

Please excuse me if there is a thread that covers this, that i may have missed.

Any feedback would be much appreciated. -dw
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69ron
#2 Posted : 10/24/2009 10:13:36 AM

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SWIM used to be interesting in isolating 5-MeO-DMT until he discovered Virola theiodora resin. SWIM is able to get great effects from the resin as is if enough is used. I think most people don't use it right. SWIM has not come across bunk resin ever. He's purchased resin from 3 different vendors from three different countries many times. It's all about the same and all pretty good quality. Why SWIM gets great results and few other people do, is I think all about technique of use.

Oh, by the way, you don’t need to isolate 5-MeO-DMT to get a 5-MeO-DMT trip. You can extract DMT and 5-MeO-DMT from chaliponga or Virola theiodora resin, and then take it sublingually. The DMT will be almost completely ineffective that way, while the 5-MeO-DMT will work really well.
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Dwhitty76
#3 Posted : 10/24/2009 4:58:25 PM

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69ron wrote:
SWIM used to be interesting in isolating 5-MeO-DMT until he discovered Virola theiodora resin. SWIM is able to get great effects from the resin as is if enough is used. I think most people don't use it right. SWIM has not come across bunk resin ever. He's purchased resin from 3 different vendors from three different countries many times. It's all about the same and all pretty good quality. Why SWIM gets great results and few other people do, is I think all about technique of use.


So far swim only sampled the virola theiodora resin from FV...... actually, last night, swim tried to give another go at it.This time using about 300mg. harmala extract first (sublingual), then about 20 minutes later, he insufullated about 300mg of the VT resin.Don't get me wrong the effects were very pleasent and somewhat sedating,but it still did not meet the expectations that swim would have, for having a full blown 5-meo experience, not even close. Swim actually got some visuals, if he unfocused his eyes and then let them relax as unfocussed, he was also playing some nice psy-ambient music, and he could tell there was a tryptamine feel present, but nothing major at all.

So, if swiy is getting such good result's because of his technique, do you mind asking him to share what that technique is,and at what dosages?

69ron wrote:
Oh, by the way, you don’t need to isolate 5-MeO-DMT to get a 5-MeO-DMT trip. You can extract DMT and 5-MeO-DMT from chaliponga or Virola theiodora resin, and then take it sublingually. The DMT will be almost completely ineffective that way, while the 5-MeO-DMT will work really well.


Good idea. Swim has to take a look at some of the chaliponga and virola teks teks and see which one is best,i would think extracting with virola might be easier than chaliponga, no?.

Supposing he tried that method.....i would imagine it would be hard to measure up dosage, because of the nn present, it would be hard to figure out how much 5-meo, one is actually injesting. Has swiy ever tried this before?

If swiy or swimmers can extract nn,5-meo and bufo from these plants, it can't be completely out of reach in learning how to isolate them. I'm just suprised that there is really no info about this and that no one has seemed to have tried it.

I know that swiy prefers 5-meo sublingual, i have read many of his reports. Swim is interested in sublingual usage aswell, but he's primarily interested in the smoked freebase, even though it seems many people don't like it.It's just sucks that the best route for him would be to find a synth online, and believe me he's been trying,none of the vendors he has seen even sells 5-meo anymore. It seems as if more people are interested in phens.Really, the only tryptamine that swim ever see's being sold, is 4 -aco- dmt fumerate, which is another molecule swim is eagerly waiting to experiment with.
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69ron
#4 Posted : 10/24/2009 9:41:23 PM

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Dwhitty76 wrote:
So far swim only sampled the virola theiodora resin from FV...... actually, last night, swim tried to give another go at it.This time using about 300mg. harmala extract first (sublingual), then about 20 minutes later, he insufullated about 300mg of the VT resin.Don't get me wrong the effects were very pleasent and somewhat sedating,but it still did not meet the expectations that swim would have, for having a full blown 5-meo experience, not even close. Swim actually got some visuals, if he unfocused his eyes and then let them relax as unfocussed, he was also playing some nice psy-ambient music, and he could tell there was a tryptamine feel present, but nothing major at all.

So, if swiy is getting such good result's because of his technique, do you mind asking him to share what that technique is,and at what dosages?


300 mg is not normally enough. 500-1500 mg is needed for a decent trip. SWIM likes a very light trip and uses 500 mg. He places it under his tongue and presses down hard so that it all stays under his tongue. He slowly swallows any saliva that builds up in his mouth. He makes sure to keep it tightly under his tongue for at least 5 minutes and then just swallows it all. For SWIM 300 mg is noticeable, but not much of a trip. 500 mg is where it’s starts to get trippy, but still a light trip. But some people needed massive amounts of 5-MeO-DMT to feel it, so some people need as much as 5000 mg of resin! That would be way too much for SWIM.

Dwhitty76 wrote:
Swim has to take a look at some of the chaliponga and virola teks teks and see which one is best,i would think extracting with virola might be easier than chaliponga, no?.


Chaliponga is hard to extract because of all the chlorophyll. You need to do a lot of defat steps.

SWIM has never attempted extracting the resin. But others have with poor results. They usually use acetone. I don’t think that the 5-MeO-DMT present in the resin is soluble in acetone. It’s present as a salt. To extract it into acetone, it must be freebased first. Often people freebase it with sodium hydroxide. I don’t think 5-MeO-DMT is stable in concentrated sodium hydroxide. Sodium carbonate would be a better base to use.

The following should work for the resin:

1 – Mix 4 parts resin with 1 part sodium carbonate. Add enough water to form a wet paste. Mix for about 5 minutes.

2 – Dry at room temperature with a fan until completely dry.

3 – Extract with acetone and filter.

4 – Add citric acid to the acetone and 5-MeO-DMT citrate SHOULD precipitate out of the acetone. If it doesn't, let the acetone evaporate a little bit, maybe put it in the freezer.

SWIM found that 5-MeO-DMT citrate was insoluble in acetone (at least to a certain degree), and so the above tech SHOULD work, but SWIM never tried it. Perhaps he will the next time he gets some resin.

Dwhitty76 wrote:
Supposing he tried that method.....i would imagine it would be hard to measure up dosage, because of the nn present, it would be hard to figure out how much 5-meo, one is actually injesting. Has swiy ever tried this before?


With chaliponga, SWIM has tried it many times. Chaliponga is usually about 30% 5-MeO-DMT or less, so judge the potency that way. It will be different for each batch, so always assume 30% is 5-MeO-DMT and the rest is mostly DMT.

Oh, don’t use freebase 5-MeO-DMT sublingually. It burns REALLY BAD. You want to use a salt form.

Dwhitty76 wrote:
If swiy or swimmers can extract nn,5-meo and bufo from these plants, it can't be completely out of reach in learning how to isolate them. I'm just suprised that there is really no info about this and that no one has seemed to have tried it.


SWIM tried, and thought he figured it out and posted a tech on it, only to find later that it didn’t always work.

He found that 5-MeO-DMT could be separated from DMT by dissolving both as freebase in acetone and then adding citric acid. Most of the DMT citrate would stay in the acetone while the 5-MeO-DMT would precipitate out. But it didn’t always work and I don’t know why. SWIM abandoned the tech.

Dwhitty76 wrote:
I know that swiy prefers 5-meo sublingual, i have read many of his reports. Swim is interested in sublingual usage aswell, but he's primarily interested in the smoked freebase, even though it seems many people don't like it.It's just sucks that the best route for him would be to find a synth online, and believe me he's been trying,none of the vendors he has seen even sells 5-meo anymore. It seems as if more people are interested in phens.Really, the only tryptamine that swim ever see's being sold, is 4 -aco- dmt fumerate, which is another molecule swim is eagerly waiting to experiment with.


I think the reason there isn’t a tech is that isolated 5-MeO-DMT smoked is an extremely scary experience if the dose it high enough. Most people will not do it again once they try it. SWIM will not, that’s for sure. He does like very small doses of smoked 5-MeO-DMT though, but not enough to really trip. He prefers it sublingually by a long shot. It’s an almost completely different experience that way.
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elofer
#5 Posted : 11/20/2009 1:58:04 AM

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dwhitty:
i've said this before on another thred that the easiest (in my opinoon) is to grow some phalaris grass to get the effect you want from 5-meo...I have heard and know that it cab be quite literally one of the most overwheling experiences the human body can experience..being struck by lightning may be simmilar..of course dosage does matter for this.. SWIM has tried a aya mix using a dried ounce of the stressed grass ( turns red and the tips dry up) that was by far the most overwhelming psychedelic experience SWIM has EVER had..no visuals realluy except for a very intense shimmering that seemed to coincide with the feeling. very very introspective, though that was prolly something SWIM needed at the moment..it changed SWIM'S perception forever.
 
jamie
#6 Posted : 11/20/2009 2:02:42 AM

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I have extracted from arundinacea a few times from wild picked grass..I know the red stuff you speak of..I have found it around where I live..

The first extract I did on phalaris was dead/yellowish grass in the middle on winter under the snow..and it literally made me fall on my ass, my pineal gland popped(literally I felt it pop) and I thought I was dying..I saw all red behind closed eyes and way way too much energy was coursing through me..

This was before I ever tried DMT..and I never smoked that particuliar extract again..I wish I knew what was in that grass..but I am sure there was a good ammnount of 5meo in there..
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elofer
#7 Posted : 11/20/2009 2:37:34 AM

to you more ray


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HHHAAAHHHAAAAA LOL!!! THAT FUNNY FRACTAL ENHANCEMENT..IT PARALLELS ALOT WITH MY SWIMS experience..yep..thats why I described it as sticking yer finger in the power outlet and leaving it there..hahhaha,, but we lived to talk about it didn't we?? we did right?? lol

SWIM used phalaris that was cultivated in a big pot using good soil, it was the 'turkey red' strain, and it was stressed repeatedly before harvest. ( stressed by not watering it till it wilted, then watering it, repeating this 3 times,) the grass started to turn blood red, a good sighn as I hear it can increas in potency several times.. yeah I haven't toutched it again since..that was trully scarry!!!!!!Shocked
 
logos2012
#8 Posted : 11/21/2009 11:20:59 AM

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What would be the technique to use the resin right as SWIM said?
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soulman
#9 Posted : 11/25/2009 11:45:20 AM

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So has no one got a tried and tested technique for extracting from chali then?
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balaganist
#10 Posted : 11/25/2009 2:19:38 PM

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soulman wrote:
So has no one got a tried and tested technique for extracting from chali then?


I would use a variation on the d-limonene tek... get all the alkaloids out so u will have DMT and 5-meo.
Except do an A/B instead of STB...

As 69ron suggested you could then use it sublingually to get effects just from the 5-meo-dmt.



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soulman
#11 Posted : 11/25/2009 5:04:37 PM

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balaganist wrote:
soulman wrote:
So has no one got a tried and tested technique for extracting from chali then?


I would use a variation on the d-limonene tek... get all the alkaloids out so u will have DMT and 5-meo.
Except do an A/B instead of STB...

As 69ron suggested you could then use it sublingually to get effects just from the 5-meo-dmt.


Yeah,

This is exactly what it would be used for.
SWIM has no desire to smoke it and would just be dosing sublingually as he has heard this is quite similar to LSD.
If there is something that was like LSD that didnt last as long then that would be awesome.

Its just that he cant seem to find any easy step by step techniques for this similar to the "69ron mescaline acetate extraction with d-limonene" thread.....hint hint Very happy

I mean i know he mentioned its hard to extract from due to the chlorophyll so you need to do a lot of defat steps, but im not even sure what that means Confused

If anyone can post a easy step by step tech or can point one in the right direction, that would be uber appreaciated.
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balaganist
#12 Posted : 11/25/2009 8:19:27 PM

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I have just successfully extracted from Chacruna with these steps:

1. 3x boil with the plant material (200g Chacruna in my case) and some acid, I used hydrochloric acid to make a pH of around 4.
2. Reduce to a manageable amount of liquid
3. Add lye till it reaches a pH of around 11
4. Add 150-200ml of limonene, shake/stir well for 5-10 mins, let it seperate
5. Seperate out the limonene and keep in another jar/container
6. repeat steps 3+4 two more times
7. Salt out with vinegar or FASA
8. evap to leave your acetate or fumerate

I guess you would not need to freebase if taking sublingually...
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69ron
#13 Posted : 11/25/2009 8:30:27 PM

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I have not posted a serious tech because its complicated and will generate a lot of questions. It's nice to give to the community, but sometimes its better to let someone else do it who has the time to respond to all the questions a tech will generate.

Look at how long the mescaline tech threads are. They are pages and pages of questions, and those are simple techs. Look at the cactus resin tech. That's super simple, but still there are tons of questions. It takes a lot of effort to respond to all the questions.

The problem with chali and chacruna is the chlorophyll content. It's a lot. So when SWIM extracts from them, he does a massive amount at once, so that the work load isn’t so bad. Defating at the acid stage is a required step. After freebasing it’s often still not clean, often green crystals form, and so it needs another A/B done on it.

SWIM’s tech uses DCM, a Soxhlet, a Continuous Liquid Liquid extractor, and a bunch of other stuff the average guy doesn’t have. It would need to be adapted to using more commonly used equipment. SWIM just doesn’t have the time right now for it.
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All my posts are hypothetical and for educational/entertainment purposes, and are not an endorsement of said activities. SWIM (a fictional character based on other people) either obtained a license for said activity, did said activity where it is legal to do so, or as in most cases the activity is completely fictional.
 
soulman
#14 Posted : 11/26/2009 9:55:02 AM

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balaganist wrote:
I have just successfully extracted from Chacruna with these steps:

1. 3x boil with the plant material (200g Chacruna in my case) and some acid, I used hydrochloric acid to make a pH of around 4.
2. Reduce to a manageable amount of liquid
3. Add lye till it reaches a pH of around 11
4. Add 150-200ml of limonene, shake/stir well for 5-10 mins, let it seperate
5. Seperate out the limonene and keep in another jar/container
6. repeat steps 3+4 two more times
7. Salt out with vinegar or FASA
8. evap to leave your acetate or fumerate

I guess you would not need to freebase if taking sublingually...


This wouldnt yield 5meo though right?
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soulman
#15 Posted : 11/26/2009 9:58:49 AM

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69ron wrote:
I have not posted a serious tech because its complicated and will generate a lot of questions. It's nice to give to the community, but sometimes its better to let someone else do it who has the time to respond to all the questions a tech will generate.

Look at how long the mescaline tech threads are. They are pages and pages of questions, and those are simple techs. Look at the cactus resin tech. That's super simple, but still there are tons of questions. It takes a lot of effort to respond to all the questions.

The problem with chali and chacruna is the chlorophyll content. It's a lot. So when SWIM extracts from them, he does a massive amount at once, so that the work load isn’t so bad. Defating at the acid stage is a required step. After freebasing it’s often still not clean, often green crystals form, and so it needs another A/B done on it.

SWIM’s tech uses DCM, a Soxhlet, a Continuous Liquid Liquid extractor, and a bunch of other stuff the average guy doesn’t have. It would need to be adapted to using more commonly used equipment. SWIM just doesn’t have the time right now for it.


Yeah I hear ya man.
Like you say though, i guess the average dude doesnt have DCM and Soxhlet etc, so it would need to be adapted for readily available, household products.

Guess we'l just have to wait until someone does have the time!!
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balaganist
#16 Posted : 11/26/2009 10:49:46 AM

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soulman wrote:
balaganist wrote:
I have just successfully extracted from Chacruna with these steps:

1. 3x boil with the plant material (200g Chacruna in my case) and some acid, I used hydrochloric acid to make a pH of around 4.
2. Reduce to a manageable amount of liquid
3. Add lye till it reaches a pH of around 11
4. Add 150-200ml of limonene, shake/stir well for 5-10 mins, let it seperate
5. Seperate out the limonene and keep in another jar/container
6. repeat steps 3+4 two more times
7. Salt out with vinegar or FASA
8. evap to leave your acetate or fumerate

I guess you would not need to freebase if taking sublingually...


This wouldnt yield 5meo though right?


Not sure... I was assuming that limonene would pick up the 5meo as well as the dmt... might be wrong ?
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endlessness
#17 Posted : 11/26/2009 10:53:45 AM

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balaganist
#18 Posted : 11/26/2009 2:49:14 PM

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endlessness wrote:
chacruna has no 5meo AFAIK


Indeed - I was suggesting that perhaps the limenone tek would work on Chali and pull out the 5meo as well as the dmt....

I have thought about doing an extraction with Chali like this but I am not sure about smoked 5meo as I have heard it can be quite hellish if too much is smoked.

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soulman
#19 Posted : 11/26/2009 3:29:18 PM

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balaganist wrote:
endlessness wrote:
chacruna has no 5meo AFAIK


Indeed - I was suggesting that perhaps the limenone tek would work on Chali and pull out the 5meo as well as the dmt....

I have thought about doing an extraction with Chali like this but I am not sure about smoked 5meo as I have heard it can be quite hellish if too much is smoked.



Yeah me too, but SWIM is keen to try it sublingually though. This is supposed to be quite a nice experience.
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soulman
#20 Posted : 11/27/2009 4:19:08 PM

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OK, what about if ground up some chali leaves with something like calcium hydroxide, then added a few drops of water to make it into a paste so it breaks down the cell walls.
Leave it to dry and the dose this sublingually??
Would that work?
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