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Potential way to simplify extraction with naphtha and get clear product Options
 
Jackal
#1 Posted : 1/9/2018 8:46:05 PM

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I was thinking about the easy way to clear dmt from other fats and impurities from plants like phalaris and i got an idea.
For example:
1 You get the juice from grinded plant material then you put NaOH to rize ph to around 13, then you put naphtha it will dissolve DMT, fats and other impurities.

2 Now you seperate naphta layer with dissolved stuff to another beaker and you pour vinegar ( acetic acid, boiling point 119c) and water in the same beaker and shake vigorously. Water and vinegar low ph mix should pull dmt back from the naphtha leaving naphtha with impurities on the top, emulsion should clear fast because of clear vinegar/water mix.

3 And in the last step you just evaporate water/vinegar mix it will have lover boiling point than DMT (dmt boiling point 160c) and only thing that should be left behind is the clear dmt crystals.

This way you could get dmt faster from product, you dont need to evaporate naptha in hot water bath and you can get your dmt in small amount of water/vinegar mix that you can easily evaporate.

Now this could only work if water/vinegar with low ph would be able to pull dmt from naphtha layer, i think that should be possible what you guys think and if it is possible did anyone try something similar?

 

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concombres
#2 Posted : 1/10/2018 12:38:31 AM

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What you are proposing is called a backsalting, or mini a/b. The issue you are going to have though, is that your dmt will be in the form of the acetate salt if you just evap the water/vinegar mix.DMT acetate is not a crystalline substance, rather a goop & does not vape anywhere near as well as freebase.

You ideally would want to take the acidic water you washed the naphtha with, base it, then pull with fresh naphtha to retrieve a cleaner product. You may have to do this several times with phalaris or you could also opt to defat the extract by doing solvent pulls on the liquid before the first basing, or by doing a backsalting & then defatting the acidic liquid before basing again.
 
urtica
#3 Posted : 1/10/2018 1:43:39 AM

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This is called backsalting and does work great, although you will probably end up with some weird gooey dmt acetates by evapping the vinegar.

often after the backsalt people will add base to the water/vinegar and use a minimal amount of NPS to get the freebase back.
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urtica
#4 Posted : 1/10/2018 1:44:22 AM

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o, you beat me to it concombres!
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Ulim
#5 Posted : 1/10/2018 4:10:54 PM

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Acetate is good for eating yes. But as the others said when heated you will get vinegar and dmt. Which is not a nice thing to inhale.

Also boiling point doesnt mean that before that nothing will evaporate.

120c is hot enough in my vape to smoke dmt
 
Jackal
#6 Posted : 1/10/2018 6:48:40 PM

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Ulim wrote:

Also boiling point doesnt mean that before that nothing will evaporate.
120c is hot enough in my vape to smoke dmt


I know that mix of two liquid solutions will evaporate together in different ratios depending on percentage in solution and boiling points of two liquids mixed together, but i dont think that something like that would hapen with salts and liquid, for example when you distill salty water you get salt and wather separated. On wiki it says Dimetiltriptamin boiling point 160C, it is wierd maybe 120c on your vape machine is not acurate reading i think that evaporation before boiling point should not happen with salts, for fluids is another story they can evaporate before boiling point but it depends on degree of saturation of air, temperature and it is usually insignificant.

Anway you guys are right dmt acetate should be neutralised before smoking, i think that this could be easily done with acetone and sodium carbonate.

After geting DMT-acetate from evaporating vinager/wather solution, adding acetone and some sodium carbonate dmt will be converted to freebase that is very soluble in acetone and insoluble in wather, then by ading small amounts of water and heating the solution acetone should evaporate leaving dmt powder in wather, this way temperature can not reach more than 100 degrees while wather is in liquid state so dmt should be safe. Than this small amout of wather can be dried on plate leaving dmt, and sodium carbonate. I just remembered while writing this that dmt will be mixed with sodium carbonate. Nwm i will think of something else, however it is possible to filter out dmt from weather because dmt is not soluble and sodium carbonate is, but in the end it ends up more complicated than normal way.
 
downwardsfromzero
#7 Posted : 1/10/2018 9:24:42 PM

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Acetone/water mix is an interesting idea.

You'll be able to wash your sodium carbonate away with water after drying so there's no need to curse about it Wink
Or, filter the solid DMT out, then a little water wash.

An established method of basing is to make a paste of the DMT salt with sodium carbonate paste, allowing this to dry, and then pulling the DMT from the powder with (~dry) acetone. This should evaporate cleanly. A final wash with distilled water should clean up any residual carbonate.
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Jackal
#8 Posted : 1/10/2018 11:12:22 PM

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What if for example we switch naphtha for some heavier hydrocarbons like petroleum, good sides of nahta are solubility and clean residue but if we are pulling from weather/acetone mix than only think that we need is solubility, petroleum is way cheaper and can be bought enwere i dont know if dmt is soluble in it but i think that there is big chanse that it is and i read somewhere that dmt is soluble in vegetable oil but i am not shure is that true i cant find any reliable data of that, this should make tekink more cheaper and simpler.

1 get juice from the grass and add NaOH to raise ph to around 13
3 add petroleum ( or some other cheap alternative solvent ) and shake vigorously
4 put solvent layer in container with vinegar and water and shake vigorously
5 evaporate vinegar/water mix and add acetone with sodium carbonate

Good stuf with sodium carbonate is that it has really high melting pont so there is no need for separating it from dmt, when you star smoking this dmt is only thing that will evaporate leaving sodium carbonate behind.

I would realy wish if someone who has dmt would try to desolve small amout in petroleum or kerosene ( carbohydrates C10-C13 ) just to see if it can desolve it, i think that it has big potential.

Naphtha has carbohydrates C5-C6 that is not so mutch difrent and petroleum is also realy clean it is not leaving eny resadu after evaporation the difference is in boiling point, petroleum can not evaporate so easy like naphta you need to heat this up, but that doesnot mather in this teknik.

( Btw i think that it is called kerosene in english but in my language we say "petrolej" and there is something in english also called petroleum but i dont know if it is the same thing, i think that corec translation is kerosene )
 
downwardsfromzero
#9 Posted : 1/11/2018 6:21:00 PM

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Heavy naphtha is a very good solvent for DMT and it still freeze precipitates well, so it does have certain advantages.

If you've extracted using a heavier naphtha, dissolving the crystals into vinegar and following some procedure or other for basing would be a good way of cleaning up any heavy hydrocarbon residue without recrystallising from heptane /light naphtha.

Kerosene, naphtha, petroleum ether, gasoline, petrol, paraffin, benzine... the names for hydrocarbon mixtures can be a bit confusing. Naphtha is a fairly generic term for petroleum distillates. Petroleum is just Latin for 'oil from rocks'. The stuff called kerosene in US English is called paraffin in UK English Smile Either way, it's a medium naphtha used as a fuel so it definitely would be sensible to clean up any product freeze precipitated from that.
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“To be GOVERNED is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be GOVERNED is to be at every operation, at every transaction noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be place under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonored. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality."
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Ulim
#10 Posted : 1/11/2018 7:39:15 PM

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Jackal wrote:

Good stuf with sodium carbonate is that it has really high melting pont so there is no need for separating it from dmt, when you star smoking this dmt is only thing that will evaporate leaving sodium carbonate behind.


This will yield sodium acetate and you will still have it in the DMT. It is even worse because you will make acetone+vinegar from heating that.
It will also make it nearly impossible to dose it because you have some amount of sodium acetate.

Also if you smoke sodium carbonate on metal or glass it will eat away at both quite easy. Not a good idea.
Also any water or dmt can evaporate with the sodium carbonate so you are still breathinng it in.
 
royalalpha
#11 Posted : 12/3/2019 11:54:37 PM

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So interested in phalaris(actually for 5meo), but the defatting is a bitch as i've read
had been growing reed canary grass in a condensed way and harvest so young,my first grass extraction went so bad

I've been reading about these fatty acids, as far i understand it's unavoidable in a/b, as it prefers the acidic phase(polar) and when based with NaOH it will hate the polar phase and stick to the NPS

I've this idea :
OK,so we boiled the plant material in a polar phase(ph <=5), the actives and hell of fats(much larger than our actives), i've read if we used calcium salts it will make these fats no more soluble

so imagine if we add CaOH or CaCO3 to the acidic water while watching ph to go no more than 8, both salts have v poor solubility in water, but CaOH is v strong base(can get us a ph of 12),so if we used the CaCO3 it will not get it basic enough to freebase our actives and yet the small amount dissolved in water will push the fats to precipitate,may be if we lowered temp to near freezing(actually will help to dissolve more CaCO3 too) fats will separate(not sure if it will float or precipitate)
does it make sense?
 
 
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