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Noman's tek not working as expected Options
 
eskhol
#1 Posted : 11/15/2017 2:11:29 AM
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Hi! I've seen some people post issues about Noman's tek but not really what is happening to me.

The tek is working but it's extremely slow for some reason, here it is:

https://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/Noman's_tek

I followed it exactly like it is there besides two things:

- I only use one crystal bowl for the freeze precipitation instead of various jars.
- No recrystalization as the extractions are white as snow, I use MHRB (pulverized).

The issue is that each time I do it, I only get about 50 mg after taking it out of the freezer. I've done it around 4 times already with the same basified solution and each time I get about 50 mg.

The way I do it is:

1-. Follow the instructions and add the same amounts listed in the tek for 50 g of pulverized MHRB in a 1L jar. After adding the naphtha and gently mixing it I let it sit for a couple of hours to make sure the layers are fully separated.

2-. Then I take 2/3 or so (maybe even less) of the naphtha and put in a small crystal bowl, the naphtha layer is around 1 cm so it's pretty thin, enough for my freezer to be able to precipitate the DMT. If I put too much naphtha it won't do anything to it, it's not cold enough.

3-. I wait 24-48 hours and take it out as if I wait more I won't really get more crystals, I tried waiting 2 weeks once and nothing noticeable happened.

4-. Put the naphtha back into the jar (I also let the bowl sit there for a couple of hours evaporating), mix the jar 3 times and let it sit there for a couple of hours. Scrape the bowl with DMT to take it all out and back to step 2.

The result is always the same, about 50 mg of small white crystals. Things I tried:

- I tried adding more naphtha and put it in the freezer but it wouldn't precipitate anything. If I do it and wait about 3 or 4 days I may see one small crystal because I think my freezer is just bad.
- I tried evaporating before putting into the freezer and it works but not much and it also leaves some residue behind so some crystals end up a bit yellowish but if I evaporate it just a bit, it improves a little bit without yellow tint. Not worth it though.
- Tried letting it sit for a couple of days before removing the naphtha but still the same, maybe just a tiny bit more, not noticeable.

Just so you can imagine how cold my freezer is, with about .7 or so cm of naphtha in that bowl, in about 1 or 1 and a half hours I can already see those spider webs floating.

I don't really know what else to try besides waiting more between each step. Any suggestions? Am I doing something wrong? Everything? Big grin

Thank you! Smile
 

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downwardsfromzero
#2 Posted : 11/15/2017 10:30:02 PM

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Quote:
I tried adding more naphtha

Less naphtha would clearly be better. You want maximum alkaloid concentration before it goes in the freezer. Now, I'm no fan of evaporation when it comes to naphtha so naturally I would suggest a mini A/B instead. Use only a minimum volume of naphtha to re-extract the alkaloid.

Or, if you have more bark, use the original naphtha for a further extraction. Then you might get a decent concentration for freeze precip. You may find out if you've got bunk bark using this method!
All posts by this user are purely fictitious and provided for entertainment purposes only.
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???
Thinking of evaporating? Save money and the environment! Reuse your solvents!
 
eskhol
#3 Posted : 11/16/2017 12:27:00 PM
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With less naphtha is very difficult to take it out of the jar as the layer is very thin. I started with 50ml and then put about 20ml more but with evaporations is down to 50ml again or even less.

I also use the same naphtha over and over again till I extract everything from one jar so I think the issue may be the most important thing, the bark. I may have bunk bark as you said. Sad

I bought it from a shop that had great reviews on it and there were a lot of them so it looked good but maybe it's not so good after all.

Next time I will buy it from somewhere else and see how it goes.
 
endlessness
#4 Posted : 11/16/2017 2:11:43 PM

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GreatArc
#5 Posted : 11/16/2017 4:49:14 PM

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I have been using a slightly modified Norman's Tek, and producing crystals like a fountain! I experimented with different modifications to the Tek, 1 variation at a time, so wasted a lot of bark to put together my best tips.

1.) Clean your glassware really well before use. I wash everything, then put it in super hot water bath with a jug of vinegar, pull it out and dry it all in my oven. It is like laboratory glassware. What a difference it makes for naphtha slipping off the sides.

2.) Use slightly more lye than Norman's Tek lists. Instead of a 1:1 ratio of lye to bark, use 1.1:1 ratio.

3.) 24 hours in basified water soak seems to be golden. After about 6-12 hours, you have loosened up lots of the crystals from the plant matter, but there's no reason not to get maximal freebase. At 24 hours, you get most of it, but without the other alkaloids which seem to take longer to detach. (Don't worry, we'll get them too!).

4.) Heating naphtha is critical! As another poster wrote, use smaller amounts on your pulls. For 100g, I use 60mL of naphtha at 60-70 degrees Celsius. This can be achieved through a hot water bath, I use a slow cooker. I pour out 2 60mL measures of naphtha into small bottles with loosened spring stoppers to allow for expansion and pressure, you can also use 100mL test tubes with a small hole placed through the stopper to act as a bleed valve, but expansion pressure should not be that great. Remember no flames, burners, ignition sources of any kind around naphtha.

5.) Now, when you put your hot naphtha into the lye/water/bark container, pour it in immediately capping it and begin agitating for 15 minutes. It will equalize temperature within 45 seconds so make sure it travels around really well. I don't even worry about an appreciable amount of emulsion forming, you should practically be shaking it.

6.) After 15 minutes, leave it for 20-30 min to settle. It should be a crystal clear layer with no suspended bubbles. If there are, wait longer or sit it on top of the dryer and the vibrations will agitate out the bubbles.

7.) Use a pipette to decant the naphtha, taking special care not to get ANY plant matter or fats (use a bright light behind the container to really illuminate the layers. Use additional glass decanters with conical bottoms and keep transferring over maybe 2 or 3 times before putting crystal clear naphtha only in your collection jar. Dump excess from decanters back in main extraction container.

8.) Do a second pull and use the same method.

9.) I am in northern Canada and it is -20C here already, so I place my collection tray in a cooler on my back deck and still let it freeze for no less than 36 hours.

10.) You should have around 500g of big, snow white crystals in the collection tray. (I use a super CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN glass pyrex dish with cover), pour off naphtha into a jar with a coffee filter and grab any small free crystals still suspended in naphtha. (The shouldn't be much, I have re-frozen my filtered naphtha afterwards and not seen so much as a film of crystal after evap, but there should be a small amount in the filter to add to your haul.

11.) I use a razor thin flexible palette knife to scrape off crystals from collection tray, and scour out any trace crystal residue remaining with dried mint and save it in a separate jar. Don't wash this collection tray after, you'll see. Cover it to protect it from dust or any contaminants.

12.) 24 hours after your first two pulls, make another single pull with perhaps 100mL of hot naphtha this time. Again, add it hot and immediately begin rolling through your lye/bark/water mixture. Pipette and decant before putting only clean naphtha into the collection tray. It should have a light golden colour due to the presence of other alkaloids that weren't freed up in the first two pulls (This is fine.) The trace crystal residue on the collection tray will act as base crystals for the free ones in the next pull to 'grab' onto and you will get everything out of there, with slightly off-white crystals this time. Store these separately in CLEAN glass jars only big enough to hold the DMT--more glass means more crystals sticking to the sides of the glass which are a pain to gather. (You can always grab these again with naphtha once the jar is empty.)

Keep them separate.

13.) Wait a few more days (4-7) and do one or more final pulls for yellowish changa DMT, as many as your like with diminishing returns. Keep in separate tiny glass jar from your pure white stuff.

14.) Don't use an ammonia wash. Even sodium carbonate washes in my separatory funnel were not as effective as recrystallizing for optimal purity (which should be negligible if you were careful at each step anyhow), produced better results with no loss of yield.

15.) You can wash, or re-x your changa, but I suggest trying it as well. The other alkaloids are psychoactive and produce different texture or quality to the DMT experience. I don't use a pipe, I use a Volcano vaporizer with lots of dried mint, so I am not sure if the changa vapour is any more harsh than the pure DMT as I have read. It wasn't appreciably different to inhale through the vape bag.

16.) Record your results, changes and yields, and post as much as possible in as much detail. This is a critical step not only for growing the data pool of this group experiment we are all engaged in, but also potentially keeps us safer and more knowledgeable about the extraction process and how independent variables augment the extraction process.

-Cheers.
 
eskhol
#6 Posted : 11/17/2017 4:06:27 PM
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@endlessness Indeed it does! Thank you, I will try it and see how it goes.

@GreatArc Thank you! For my next extraction I will follow your version of the tek and see how it goes. It always seems so easy but there are so many little details and one or more of them really matter and improve the extraction greatly.

One more question guys, how exactly does DMT get oxidized and how would I recognize it? I read it happens when you let the crystals sit out in the open for a long time.

When I take out the bowl with naphtha, put it back in the jar and let the crystals evaporate the remaining solvent. I also use a fan that blows directly onto them. Does that affect the crystals and oxidize them? I don't see any difference in colors, they are usually white or just a bit yellowish but that was always like that.

I've been having some very weird trips lately (kind of dark) and I think they started right after I started using a fan so I'm thinking the oxidized DMT has a different effect than the normal one and it makes trips darker. Is that true?
 
GreatArc
#7 Posted : 11/18/2017 4:36:11 AM

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Regarding the fan, I use as little airflow as possible. I bring in my frozen collection tray and immediately pour off the naphtha through the filter. The collection tray naphtha should be evaporated in minutes, but leave for a full 12+ hours to make sure even the trace amounts are gone and crystals completely solid and dry.

It was not by design, but I had been using my very cool garage to place my evaporating glass trays (about 5-10 degrees Celsius). With no airflow they did not oxide nor discolour at all. Pure white until I am kicking my jars again a week later to get my changa/DMT out of the very last pulls. Even then, it is very bright and only slightly lemony-yellow tinted.

For anyone, I would suggest not using a jar for freeze precipitation. Small glass pyrex trays with lids you have CLEANED CLEANED CLEANED (Wash with hot soapy water, rinse with water, wipe with rubbing alcohol or vinegar, dry in oven, cover until needed) work great. Get one in a size you'll fill up only about 1/4 of the way, there is plenty of surface area to facilitate lots of crystal formation, the shape and surface is conducive to pouring off naphtha with barely any crystals to have to recover, it drains clean and FAST, the flat plane promotes very fast evaporation, leaves no places for naphtha to pool unevenly, and best of all, it is best for crystal collection! A single scrape on an angle and it all collects in the lip with hardly any loss in residue or tiny imperfections in the glass, and the rounded corners act as a perfect natural 'funnel' or gutter to go directly into the tiny final DMT jar. The less you monkey with crystals, the less you lose. The better the fit for the jar, the less you lose to trace amounts sticking on glass. Something like the top one is wonderful:

https://www.pyrexware.co...amp;sm=fit&sfrm=tif


Let me ask you some questions:

1.) Is your MHRB powdered or shredded? If shredded, are you busting it up? And if so, how?

2.) Are you using DISTILLED water?

3.) What are you using to mix basified water/root bark in? Size?

4.) When you look through your naphtha layer after rolling it through mixture, is it clear?

5.) How are you doing your transfers? Bulb glass pipette? If so, how many mL? I can help you with tips and technique on anything you like. Transfering infused naphtha seems, to me, to be the most delicate and important element of getting the crystals pure.

TIP: Use a bright flashlight or lamp of some kind behind the layer as you transfer, you will notice how much this helps you control pulling ONLY naphtha. Even a slight pull will break the surface tension of the plant material layer and cause a slight 'puff' or cloud to suspend within the naphtha layer close to the pipette for a few seconds. You can watch super closely and pull back the moment you see surface tension of lower layer pulling. Try and use a jar which is not only right for the amount of liquid in it, but also of as tall and thin as possible to maximize the thickness of the naphtha layer for optimal draws. Consider using a glass graduated cylinder with glass stopper as your extraction vessel if you intend to do further extractions. So cheap. Same with glass transfer pipettes, invaluable to this kind of project and cheap beyond belief on eBay. Buy 10mL ones if you get a couple and a couple of bulbs.
 
eskhol
#8 Posted : 11/18/2017 6:46:19 PM
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@GreatArc The issue I have with the evaporation is that I can't leave it there for 12+ hours. I may be able to leave it for about 5 hours max. I don't have where to place because I live with other people in a flat with no balcony. That's why I needed something fast and the fan works great but I'm worried about oxidation. I haven't seen any yellow color after using the fan so I doesn't seem like it actually makes the crystals more yellow, they are as white as when I take the bowl out of the freezer. But the effects are different, maybe it's just because I also took a higher dose but I don't know, they seem so different.

About the pyrex trays, I think I'm not using the right word here Big grin Sorry English is not my first language. I use one of those but it's circular with a lid, a tupper. It still has a flat bottom but the sides are curved. It works pretty great and scraping the crystals is very easy with an old credit card.

1) I have both but right now I'm using powdered.
2) Yes.
3) I'm using two good quality Bormioli Rocco mason jars of 1L each.
4) After it's separated it's a tiny bit cloudy and yellow like pee but I can see through it.
5) I use one of those turkey blasters so it's like a big pipette. It's 40 ml but it can take even more. It's made of good plastic though. What I usually do is take a big chunk of the naphtha layer the first time and directly put it into the tupper but after that I use a small crystal container in case I take any of the basified solution and then decant the naphtha and take it with the turkey blaster without taking any of the basified solution. Doing it this way I usually take most of the naphtha and I never had any basified solution in my tupper as the crystals were white and I had no residue left. I've also bought some 3ml pipettes to see if they work better for this part where the naphtha layer is very thin.

I just learned how much better is using a light from behind the jar! I did that the other day because it was a bit dark and it makes a huge difference.

I also looked at some test tubes and they are not expensive but they don't have a lid. The ones I found with lid are very expensive, about 80 euros for a 1000ml one. I could buy one without lid and try to make something for it but I still have to think about that, it has to be somewhat safe Big grin I will look more.

With the jars the naphtha layer is not difficult to extract but I always leave a bit behind, about 10 ml or 15 ml. The jars are the right size but they could be a bit more thin to make it easier. The good thing about them is that the opening is very wide and the turkey blaster has one of those needle type ends so I can put it almost flat on the naphtha surface.

Thank you for your answer! Smile

Right now I'm running a test with the jars. I am leaving them all weekend and mixing them every couple of hours but on one of them, I extracted almost all the naphtha, heated it, put it back and mixed it. I want to see how much of a difference heat makes so next week we'll see the results.


 
permatrip
#9 Posted : 11/19/2017 8:31:21 PM

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This thread has helped me as I have only done 1 extraction for my first experience's...

I seen some yellow in my spice .. this is my first extraction which I think was pretty good.
permatrip attached the following image(s):
spice 012.JPG (3,317kb) downloaded 64 time(s).
spice 014.JPG (3,145kb) downloaded 62 time(s).
spice 015.JPG (2,938kb) downloaded 62 time(s).
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eskhol
#10 Posted : 11/19/2017 9:06:51 PM
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@permatrip Yeah, that looks pretty good! Did you weight it? How much was it?

In my experience, I usually get everything white or with a slight yellow tone. I only got white and some yellow crystals when I had residue from evaporating beforehand.

What tek did you follow? Did you also use MHRB?
 
permatrip
#11 Posted : 11/20/2017 2:37:16 AM

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I started with 48.gm of MHRB. 48 gm lye and 40 salt. That was .4gm and I was thrilled for my first time. I think I can learn from you guys and improve.
put your hands in my hand and together we will take on all the world
 
eskhol
#12 Posted : 11/24/2017 8:57:45 PM
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Hey guys, I have some news!

Last weekend I did a test. I had two jars with the same solution, same quantities and everything but I have extracted a bit from one before doing the test.

The test was:

1. On one of the jars I extracted almost all the naphtha and warmed it on a water bath.
2. Put the naphtha back and then mixed both jars once for about 2 minutes, the hot one first and losing no time at all as the naphtha will get cold very fast.
3. Mix the jars 3 times every day for 3 days.
4. Extract the naphtha from both jars and freeze precip for 4 days (4 days because I didn't have time to take them out before but on day 2 everything was already there so 2 days is probably enough).

The results were:

On heated jar - 129 mg
On non heated jar - 93 mg

Keep in mind that before this test the normal results were around 50 mg so this is a huge improvement! Almost 100% improvement just by mixing it more and around 150-160% improvement by using heat only ONCE.

Next test will be next week and I will use heat again on one of them but just once and on the other one I will heat it before each mix for 3 or 4 days like before, probably the entire week and then freeze precip on weekend.
 
GreatArc
#13 Posted : 11/25/2017 10:16:28 AM

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Sounds like you're doing great!

Having side by side jars using one as a control and the other as an experiment where you augment a single step/factor in your extractions is so valuable and is the really strong kind of contribution we need towards the data pool we all draw upon in what is essentially a massive group experiment on a virtually unexplored frontier.

From notes regarding various extractions, troubleshooting and the characteristics of the different adjustments these teks produce, to the subjective and highly personal trip reports, this is exactly the kind of thing that will help new explorers along and more serious researchers produce statistics from a wider pool of anecdotal information, talking to each other is critical.

Keep it up, it's as interesting for me to read about the misfires and successes of another person's work as it would be if it were my own!
 
 
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