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Do dogs have a sense of humour? Options
 
dragonrider
#1 Posted : 10/16/2017 7:02:51 PM

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Recently i read an article about dogs. It said 'most people believe that dogs wag their tails becuase they're happy, but scientists have discovered that this is not true because wagging the tail has a social function'. The claim was that by wagging their tails, dogs give a signal to other dogs that they don't have hostile intentions, and that they're not a threat.

But i once saw an interview with a primatologist, and he said that many primates produce sounds and movements that are very simmilar to human laughter...for basically the same reasons. To signal that they're not a threat, and that they mean well.

So if this behaviour is the evolutionary root of our sense of humour, wouldn't that make it more instead of less plausible that for dogs, wagging their tails IS in a way, comparable to human laughter?

I think that dogs do have a sense of humour. Their own kind of humour ofcourse, but still.
When i was a kid, we had a dog, and he Always loved to play with me. Most people will know the game that dogs like to play: you throw a stick, a frisbee or a ball, and the dog brings it back. You throw it again, etc. So my dog sometimes liked to trick me: he brought back the stick or the ball, placed it in front of me, i reached over. And júst before i grabbed it..he quickly took it and then ran around me. He clearly enjoyed this. A lot. I also noticed that dogs like to do 'fake attacks' when they're playing. I think these are clear examples of doggish humour.

Or would i just be projecting something onto them?


 

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Swayambhu
#2 Posted : 10/16/2017 8:35:53 PM

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Dogs totally have a sense of humour.

It's not very sophisticated, though.
 
exquisitus
#3 Posted : 10/17/2017 4:27:43 AM
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guys, guys, guys...
you expand the expression "sense of humour" beyond any reasonable limits.
am i reading a cinema projectionists' forum? Smile
 
dragonrider
#4 Posted : 10/17/2017 9:47:41 AM

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exquisitus wrote:
guys, guys, guys...
you expand the expression "sense of humour" beyond any reasonable limits.
am i reading a cinema projectionists' forum? Smile

But if only humans have a sense of humour...How do you explain that evolutionarily?
First you have the animal kingdom, with not a single creature with a sense of humour. And then..ping..man arrives and suddenly there is language, humour, etc. How is that even likely?
Isn't it much more likely that things like language and humour have gradually evolved, and that rudimentary forms of many human traits can be found in many other species?

I would agree with swaymbhu that dogs don't have the sophisticated sense of humour that we humans have. But the thing is that dogs are very social animals, like their ancestors. So they have all kind of social mechanisms, like we do.

It looks like our sense of humour is based on a mechanism to avoid conflict, and i can't help noticing that dogs have such a mechanism as well, and that it very much looks like they're having 'fun' when this mechanism is being activated.

And dogs have a greater understanding of human language than we tend to think. One time i said to my sister "hey, there's a cat in our backyard", and our dog immediately jumped up and ran into our backyard, growling. We didn't teach him what the meaning of the words 'cat' and 'backyard' meant.
 
Swayambhu
#5 Posted : 10/17/2017 4:09:57 PM

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exquisitus wrote:
guys, guys, guys...
you expand the expression "sense of humour" beyond any reasonable limits.
am i reading a cinema projectionists' forum? Smile


Easy-
What makes you laugh are things that cause some kind of surprise or "cognitive dissonance", but in a way that we know is safe, and our anticipation of the "punch line" adds to that pleasure.

Thus when I jump out at my wife and go "boo!", she lets out the modified primate alrm call we call "laughter".

When I ask my 7 year old niece "what's brown and sticky?", and then tell the answer is "a stick!", she laughs, because she either thought the answer was something else, or she could not imagine what the answer to such a ridiculous proposition could be (depending on the joke). The element of surprise, dissonance, or danger when applied in this controlled, culturally sanctioned way gives us that little thrill that results in pleasure and laughter.

Dogs; When I pretend to throw the ball, but don't, my dogs go "wee-wee-wee!" and wag their tails. The anticipation pleases them, more so when I build it up through repeated pretend throws.

Or, I will pretend to put something they desire underneath, say, a cushion. When they see that it is not there, they wag their tails and look around in bamboozlement, and look to me for an explanation. Experience has shown them that I play these tricks, but they will get the desired object in the end, and the dissonance and controlled tension pleases them.

Another thing that dogs find funny is when you hide your face in a pillow and make a funny noise. They will try and get to your face, usually using their tongues. I find it funny too, because having the periphery of your face pawed at and licked is both tickly and slightly unnerving. Whether their reasons for finding it funny are the same as mine I'm not sure.

But, DO NOT play the "boo" joke with dogs. They don't get it, and it scares and upsets them.

As I said, it's humour, Scotty, but not as we know it.
 
Sunnyside
#6 Posted : 10/17/2017 4:50:06 PM

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Swayambhu wrote:
exquisitus wrote:
guys, guys, guys...
you expand the expression "sense of humour" beyond any reasonable limits.
am i reading a cinema projectionists' forum? Smile


Easy-
What makes you laugh are things that cause some kind of surprise or "cognitive dissonance", but in a way that we know is safe, and our anticipation of the "punch line" adds to that pleasure.

Thus when I jump out at my wife and go "boo!", she lets out the modified primate alrm call we call "laughter".

When I ask my 7 year old niece "what's brown and sticky?", and then tell the answer is "a stick!", she laughs, because she either thought the answer was something else, or she could not imagine what the answer to such a ridiculous proposition could be (depending on the joke). The element of surprise, dissonance, or danger when applied in this controlled, culturally sanctioned way gives us that little thrill that results in pleasure and laughter.

Dogs; When I pretend to throw the ball, but don't, my dogs go "wee-wee-wee!" and wag their tails. The anticipation pleases them, more so when I build it up through repeated pretend throws.

Or, I will pretend to put something they desire underneath, say, a cushion. When they see that it is not there, they wag their tails and look around in bamboozlement, and look to me for an explanation. Experience has shown them that I play these tricks, but they will get the desired object in the end, and the dissonance and controlled tension pleases them.

Another thing that dogs find funny is when you hide your face in a pillow and make a funny noise. They will try and get to your face, usually using their tongues. I find it funny too, because having the periphery of your face pawed at and licked is both tickly and slightly unnerving. Whether their reasons for finding it funny are the same as mine I'm not sure.

But, DO NOT play the "boo" joke with dogs. They don't get it, and it scares and upsets them.

As I said, it's humour, Scotty, but not as we know it.

That's really a good way to put it, by Swayambhu.
You folks really made me think on this one.
Since Swayambhu said it so well, I can spare you the details of my tricksy hound. You're welcome!
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Swayambhu
#7 Posted : 10/17/2017 7:35:19 PM

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dragonrider wrote:

But if only humans have a sense of humour...How do you explain that evolutionarily?
First you have the animal kingdom, with not a single creature with a sense of humour. And then..ping..man arrives and suddenly there is language, humour, etc. How is that even likely?
Isn't it much more likely that things like language and humour have gradually evolved, and that rudimentary forms of many human traits can be found in many other species?


Good post and an excellent point.

I think when, in 10, 20, 50 years time, whenever it is, it comes out how very similar, how highly advanced, animals are in cognition, emotion, and culture (I'll call it what it is), etc., we are going to be absolutely horrified and truly disgusted at how we have treated them and how we didn't "get it" for so long. I would put money on it being the moral crisis of the 21st century.

For about 5 minutes, until we remember that we don't really give a shit.
 
5-HT2a
#8 Posted : 10/18/2017 4:58:37 AM

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I like what's being said here,
I just wanted to point one thing out:

dragonrider wrote:
Recently i read an article about dogs. It said 'most people believe that dogs wag their tails becuase they're happy, but scientists have discovered that this is not true because wagging the tail has a social function'. The claim was that by wagging their tails, dogs give a signal to other dogs that they don't have hostile intentions, and that they're not a threat.


I don't really think it's fair to say that dogs don't wag their tails when they're happy, but that it's a signal that they are friendly. I think it is both at the same time. What I mean by this is, do humans smile because they're enjoying the moment, or because it serves a social function? It is both, when we are enjoying the moment we smile, which serves the function to show that we are not hostile. In the same sense, if a dog were to play-bite at another dog, the other dog would know to take it as a joke, because the first dog's tail is wagging.
"There are no differences but differences of degree between different degrees of difference and no difference."
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dragonrider
#9 Posted : 10/18/2017 12:16:28 PM

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5-HT2a wrote:
I like what's being said here,
I just wanted to point one thing out:

dragonrider wrote:
Recently i read an article about dogs. It said 'most people believe that dogs wag their tails becuase they're happy, but scientists have discovered that this is not true because wagging the tail has a social function'. The claim was that by wagging their tails, dogs give a signal to other dogs that they don't have hostile intentions, and that they're not a threat.


I don't really think it's fair to say that dogs don't wag their tails when they're happy, but that it's a signal that they are friendly. I think it is both at the same time. What I mean by this is, do humans smile because they're enjoying the moment, or because it serves a social function? It is both, when we are enjoying the moment we smile, which serves the function to show that we are not hostile. In the same sense, if a dog were to play-bite at another dog, the other dog would know to take it as a joke, because the first dog's tail is wagging.

Yes, that's what i think as well.
Evolution often uses pre-existing structures to expand on. In many primates, for instance (and i believe Dolphins as well), sex also has a social function.
 
Swayambhu
#10 Posted : 10/18/2017 12:35:21 PM

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dragonrider wrote:

Evolution often uses pre-existing structures to expand on. In many primates, for instance (and i believe Dolphins as well), sex also has a social function.


Absolutely.

I remember many years ago sitting on a sunny stoep, blazed out of my gourd on some of Malawi's finest, watching flies jumping at each other and then engaging, "face to face" or more accurately belly to belly, and rolling around the floor grappling like tiny wrestlers.

I don't know what the hell they were doing, but it wasn't sex, and it wasn't eating or pooping. Maybe it was some kind of aggression, but they seemed to be sort of goofing around, enjoying themselves. When the grappling ended, there didn't seem to be a victor.

It's strange, they are just nasty house flies, but they are highly, highly complex life forms, and as stupid as it might seem, I believe there is such a thing as a fly mind.
 
Psilosopher?
#11 Posted : 10/19/2017 3:52:56 AM

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5-HT2a wrote:
I like what's being said here,
I just wanted to point one thing out:

dragonrider wrote:
Recently i read an article about dogs. It said 'most people believe that dogs wag their tails becuase they're happy, but scientists have discovered that this is not true because wagging the tail has a social function'. The claim was that by wagging their tails, dogs give a signal to other dogs that they don't have hostile intentions, and that they're not a threat.


I don't really think it's fair to say that dogs don't wag their tails when they're happy, but that it's a signal that they are friendly. I think it is both at the same time. What I mean by this is, do humans smile because they're enjoying the moment, or because it serves a social function? It is both, when we are enjoying the moment we smile, which serves the function to show that we are not hostile. In the same sense, if a dog were to play-bite at another dog, the other dog would know to take it as a joke, because the first dog's tail is wagging.


Dogs wag their tails because they have anal glands which release pheromones. It's how they communicate with other dogs that they're happy, they're literally spraying their pheromones everywhere with their tail.

It's also why they tuck their tails between their legs when they're scared, cause they don't want other dogs to know what pheromones they're secreting.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
 
Swayambhu
#12 Posted : 10/19/2017 1:08:21 PM

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Psilosopher? wrote:


Dogs wag their tails because they have anal glands which release pheromones. It's how they communicate with other dogs that they're happy, they're literally spraying their pheromones everywhere with their tail.

It's also why they tuck their tails between their legs when they're scared, cause they don't want other dogs to know what pheromones they're secreting.


Strange theory. I wonder where you heard it?
 
Valmar
#13 Posted : 10/19/2017 2:59:28 PM

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Dogs definitely have a sense of humour, lol, it's just that they merely express their amusement differently to humans.

If you understand canine behaviour enough, it's not difficult to recognize when they're happily amused and laughing in a canine fashion.

I thought this would be obvious... but then again, maybe not always.
โ€œThe dao that can be expressed is not the eternal Dao.โ€
~ LวŽozว

โ€œOne does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious.โ€
~ Carl Jung
 
Psilosopher?
#14 Posted : 10/19/2017 8:58:55 PM

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Swayambhu wrote:
Psilosopher? wrote:


Dogs wag their tails because they have anal glands which release pheromones. It's how they communicate with other dogs that they're happy, they're literally spraying their pheromones everywhere with their tail.

It's also why they tuck their tails between their legs when they're scared, cause they don't want other dogs to know what pheromones they're secreting.


Strange theory. I wonder where you heard it?


I heard it from a neuroscientist, who was explaining the similarities between humans and animals, and how we basically have the same physiological systems.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
 
Swayambhu
#15 Posted : 10/20/2017 7:41:54 PM

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Psilosopher? wrote:
Swayambhu wrote:
Psilosopher? wrote:


Dogs wag their tails because they have anal glands which release pheromones. It's how they communicate with other dogs that they're happy, they're literally spraying their pheromones everywhere with their tail.

It's also why they tuck their tails between their legs when they're scared, cause they don't want other dogs to know what pheromones they're secreting.


Strange theory. I wonder where you heard it?


I heard it from a neuroscientist, who was explaining the similarities between humans and animals, and how we basically have the same physiological systems.


Maybe he should stick to neuroscience, because it would appear that he knows bugger all about dogs!
 
Psilosopher?
#16 Posted : 10/20/2017 11:59:00 PM

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Swayambhu wrote:
Psilosopher? wrote:
Swayambhu wrote:
Psilosopher? wrote:


Dogs wag their tails because they have anal glands which release pheromones. It's how they communicate with other dogs that they're happy, they're literally spraying their pheromones everywhere with their tail.

It's also why they tuck their tails between their legs when they're scared, cause they don't want other dogs to know what pheromones they're secreting.


Strange theory. I wonder where you heard it?


I heard it from a neuroscientist, who was explaining the similarities between humans and animals, and how we basically have the same physiological systems.


Maybe he should stick to neuroscience, because it would appear that he knows bugger all about dogs!

He's also a neuroendocrinologist, so knows quite a bit about hormones and pheromones.
"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
 
 
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