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Spice Tolerance and Loss of Effect Options
 
romiir
#1 Posted : 10/9/2009 12:55:45 PM
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Has anyone out there noted a build in tolerance or loss of effect of the spice? Or a cross tolerance with other psychedelics?

A friend recently had a very strong pharmhuasca experience and has not been able to have a good vapor experience since, however this friend also noted an increase in tolerance after exposure to lsd.

Have any of you noticed this, and or knowledge of typical duration to return to baseline?

I have read that many people tend to have a "honey moon" with dmt and then like with other psych's lessen use of it over time. Is this due to the tolerance? Can vaporized DMT only be sustained once a month or less often at reasonable dosages?

Technical question: Is it believed ayahuasca can cause a short period of receptor down-regulation?

My friend recently tried ~200 MG freebase with no success. My friend reported body load but no visuals.

Thoughts?
 

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dread
#2 Posted : 10/9/2009 7:12:13 PM
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Take a break, it'll go away.

Myself I've only noticed an inverse tolerance. The more I smoke the less it takes for me to breakthrough.
 
SnozzleBerry
#3 Posted : 10/9/2009 7:36:59 PM

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romiir wrote:
Have any of you noticed this, and or knowledge of typical duration to return to baseline?

Nope, "Strassman's dose-response study was followed by the tolerance project in which subjects received a high dose of DMT four times, at 30 minute intervals. This latter study, which did not demonstrate a reduced response after frequent dosing (i.e., there was no tolerance), allowed for the deepest and most consistent work under the influence of DMT." Call it 30 minutes just to be safe...Remember these were .40 mg/kg IV doses, so it's a pretty good number to go from. You should not be experiencing tolerance in the true sense. Even 15 min after I've broken through, I've been able to do so again. Your lungs get a real workout and it gets harder to hold, but there's no diminished effects, at least, not to my mind.

romiir wrote:
I have read that many people tend to have a "honey moon" with dmt and then like with other psych's lessen use of it over time. Is this due to the tolerance? Can vaporized DMT only be sustained once a month or less often at reasonable dosages?

No, it's due to a variety of things working in tandem; a need to integrate the experiences, examine life, compare spice to waking life, etc. Vaporized DMT can be smoked nightly indefinitely with no build up of tolerance.

romiir wrote:
Technical question: Is it believed ayahuasca can cause a short period of receptor down-regulation?

No, in fact it has been shown to cause upregulation of serotonin receptors...Acolon can give better details on this than I can.

romiir wrote:
My friend recently tried ~200 MG freebase with no success. My friend reported body load but no visuals.

Thoughts?


Your friend is most likely not inhaling/holding the vapor correctly. Is there residue left in your smoking device? Is he holding it upward of 10 seconds? How many hits is he taking? The simplest explanation for feeling the tryptamine heavies and no visuals is that he only took in enough of the 200 mg to get the lightest effects. I witnessed someone waste a shitload of spice and get no experience whatsoever (the shallowest, most pathetic "attempt" at smoking anything I've ever seen, literally...So, because he decided he wanted to put on airs of bravado and talk about how "hard-headed" he was, I packed a bowl full of jungle (I'm not posting the dose, it was completely irresponsible and done to show this guy that shit will happen whether you use good technique with a smaller dose or piss poor technique with a lot...long story short, he discovered the other side, even with his BS inhalations. Try changing the device or method of smoking.
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jamie
#4 Posted : 10/9/2009 7:41:47 PM

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I dont find any tolerancy with DMT no matter how much I smoke...I have smoked bufotenine once a day for days onend as well and there was no tolerancy issues..
 
acolon_5
#5 Posted : 10/9/2009 9:39:11 PM

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I have noticed a cross tolerence when using MDMA, mushrooms, and other RC tryptamines. This can last up to a week.

heavy DMT use, I have noticed, can lead to some tolerance that lasts longer than the 30min-hour.

Give yourself a little break. When you do try it again try using a different method of smoking (this worked very well for me).

200mg freebase with no visuals. THIS sounds like someone is burning up their spice. Try the leaf bed method with a bong or even a pipe. I was getting almost nothing from 120+mgs of spice. 50 normally has me deep in hyperspace...but I was burning it up and getting almost NOTHING from massive doses. I switched to the leaf bed method and immediately I was back in hyperspace.
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I am certifiably insane, as such all posts written by me should be regarded as utter nonsense or attempts to get attention.

I don't know SWIM and personally don't trust him at all. If SWIM is posting, most likely I will not respond...as I said, I don't trust the guy. YOU I trust, but never SWIM.
 
romiir
#6 Posted : 10/24/2009 11:44:47 PM
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Hello all, thank you all for the informative posts. However I am still puzzled. All of the data above does not make since to me. I'll explain:

Well, my friend is an experienced smoker, always was able to get off easily on ~50 mg no problem, has tried glass pipe/machine/leaf bed to no avalil after a STRONG pharmahuasca experience. It has now been at least a month since that experience and my friend has also taken time off, 2 weeks I believe at one point. My friend is a seasoned user of many things and was wondering about cross tolerances. There has been exposure in the past 6 months to other psychoactives, (LSD, Cannabis, MDMA, etc) however my friends groupies with the same exposure haven't had any tolerance issues. Although one of them is noticing a tolerance to DMT in the past few days after smoking it nightly for weeks. I remembered reading the strassman stuff about tolerance, but it seems to me that this data is incorrect with chronic use. I think I am going to advise my friend to try a month without using anything to try to "reset". I hope he will be able to rejoin the group in hyperspace soon! :S
 
transitory
#7 Posted : 10/25/2009 1:41:09 AM

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Quote:

because he decided he wanted to put on airs of bravado and talk about how "hard-headed" he was, I packed a bowl full of jungle (I'm not posting the dose, it was completely irresponsible and done to show this guy that shit will happen whether you use good technique with a smaller dose or piss poor technique with a lot...long story short, he discovered the other side, even with his BS inhalations.


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romiir
#8 Posted : 10/25/2009 5:39:54 PM
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I am left with more questions:

What about tolerance to ayahuasca, does it build with use in your experience? Have any used ayahuasca/pharm../etc regularly? Please post your personal experiences. I am trying to gain more insight to the tolerance of DMT.

Another side question, what is the optimal amount of time to hold an inhalation of smoked dmt?

Also shouldn't burning it not really hurt the trip since DMT-n-oxide is also active?
 
polytrip
#9 Posted : 10/25/2009 5:52:20 PM
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With ayahuasca, you don't build up tolerance.
But cross tolerance with other substances does occur.

When you take DMT in any form shortly after you've taken other psychedelics, there might be a high tolerance for it.

I have noticed a very odd thing: if you take ayahuasca, and then take another psychedelic for wich you've built up some tolerance, the effects of DMT become less powerfull as well. As if a substance for wich you've build up tolerance becomes an antidote for the DMT.
 
romiir
#10 Posted : 10/25/2009 6:01:43 PM
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polytrip wrote:
With ayahuasca, you don't build up tolerance.
But cross tolerance with other substances does occur.

When you take DMT in any form shortly after you've taken other psychedelics, there might be a high tolerance for it.

I have noticed a very odd thing: if you take ayahuasca, and then take another psychedelic for wich you've built up some tolerance, the effects of DMT become less powerfull as well. As if a substance for wich you've build up tolerance becomes an antidote for the DMT.


Very informative post. SWIM recently became immune to LSD and hasn't been able to trip DMT since. Other psychs still work though. SWIM hasn't touched LSD in over a month though...

SWIM never noted a relationship between MDMA and DMT however, but will keep the above advise in mind from the other posters.
 
Jorkest
#11 Posted : 10/25/2009 6:14:06 PM

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if i take some MDMA i canNOT breakthrough for the life of me...same thing happens sometimes on mescaline..
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romiir
#12 Posted : 10/25/2009 6:34:32 PM
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Jorkest wrote:
if i take some MDMA i canNOT breakthrough for the life of me...same thing happens sometimes on mescaline..

Oh my, this is very useful information, are you able to break through a day after though? A week?

SWIM did not expect cross tolerance, SWIM once did LS-D-MT+SALVIA in tandem with matching peaks to see how deep the rabbit hole goes. SWIM had no trouble with that experience.

SWIM has yet to have a successful mescaline trip, perhaps that was associated with recent MDMA use?

If both of the above affect DMT tolerance then no wonder SWIM hadn't been able to break through recently.
 
romiir
#13 Posted : 10/30/2009 6:12:56 PM
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I guess SWIM have to come to terms with 5HT2 down regulation due to polyuse of psychs... SWIM has read a TON of literature over the past few days and attempted to undeplete all his neurotransmitters with amino acid therapy to no avail. SWIM is going to try eating healthy and making sure his body has everything it needs to come back to a natural chemical balance. SWIM will try again in a month. Crying or very sad
 
 
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