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Introduction Essay: CBD + THC -> "Seek DMT" Options
 
nonononono
#1 Posted : 7/1/2017 9:08:36 PM

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Recently I had an interesting and intense experience, with only material that is legal in my jurisdiction. I have looked and tried to find other examples of this kind of experience but I have been unable to find any report even similar to it. I have not done any psychedelics before, but what happened to me sure seemed a lot like what I have read about them.

Recently I have started to experiment with CBD extract (commercially available) and appreciating how relaxing and calming it can be. I decided to add some THC extract into the mix one day, and that is when things got VERY interesting. Here is the sum total of what I had taken:
100 mg Sertraline, Oral (Zoloft, taken daily, prescription)
20 mg CBD from Full Spectrum Oil, Oral (commercial product with Coconut oil extraction)
20 mg THC from Ethanol Tincture, Oral (10:1 mixture of ethanol and Cannabis resin)

The effects were markedly different then anything I have ever experienced before, and having used both the CBD and THC from the same batches 12+ times independently, completely different then either in isolation. I didn't feel stoned at all, despite the fact that the same dose of THC on its own would make me very stoned indeed. I had a clarity of thought and wakefulness that was profound in its own right. I also experienced a complete lack of anxiety or fear which is unusual for me, especially with THC consumption. There was also a deep sense of introspection and oneness with the universe. Closed eye visuals, moving patterns and shapes, dim but present continuously, almost like watching TV through a sheet, visualization of objects and concepts some familiar and some foreign. Open eye visuals, tracers, wobbling field of view, rotation of object that were stationary, changes of colors and textures, etc. Kensho-like experiences (which I have had before with meditation), with a visceral sense of the wholeness of the universe, and the belonging to it of everything both within and without me. A reduction in the sense of self, not to the point of elimination, but to the point where I could easily see the separation and distinction between me and I. Also experienced additional "dimensions" (for lack of a better word) and places adjacent and different from our own, both "above" and "below" where we are now. Listening to music also felt purely ecstatic!

The experience lasted for almost 8 hours in total, with 6 hours in the middle being very intense. My memory of the experience is also sharp, and not hindered in the way that THC can do to me. Here is the strange part, I came back from the experience with two words extremely firmly planted in my mind "seek DMT". I have read a lot about DMT in the past, but always came to the conclusion that it wasn't for me even though it seemed fascinating. But, now I am reconsidering literally everything I thought I knew. This is essentially why I am here on this forum.

In the after effects I noticed a profound change of sensation and perception in the following days, it was as if I was experiencing everything again for the first time in a way that was raw and unmodified from the core experience of it. I have also been feeling very calm, and have had more then one friend tell me that I seem different and less high-strung then I used to be.

I have repeated this experiment 2 additional times, with the same effects, so I am confident that it wasn't just a fluke. Every time was slightly different, but with the same broad strokes. The most intense of the experiences (that was what I talked about above) was done after a fairly long meditation session earlier in the same day. Some of what I experienced was quite familiar due to my meditation practice, but in a much more visceral and profound way then I had experienced before.

Having talked to a few friends about it, they all think I am crazy, and at least one of them tried the same combination of CBD+THC as I did with nothing at all of the same effects. So my question becomes, has anyone else had this kind of experience with CBD and THC before? If so what did you take away from it, and how common do you think it is?
 

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downwardsfromzero
#2 Posted : 7/1/2017 11:10:03 PM

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It's possible that the oral dosing of THC allows it to be converted into a highly active metabolite. CBD may assist in this occurring. Your unbelieving friends may well have a different metabolic enzyme profile than you. There are some great threads about cannabinoid metabolism around here which would probably be very interesting for you.

And welcome to the Nexus!




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
nonononono
#3 Posted : 7/1/2017 11:47:54 PM

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Thanks, for some reason I hadn't thought to look here for CBD and THC metabolism information. There are a few good threads here for sure. Higher quality then I have seen most other places for sure, and I love that many of them refer back to the literature.

As for oral consumption of THC, it is known to produce higher levels of 11-OH-THC (more psychoactive then delta9-THC) then smoking/vaping due to first-pass metabolism in the liver. CBD competitively inhibits cytochrome P450 enzymes, mainly CYP2C and CYP3A, which are also the same enzymes types that perform the metabolism of delta9-THC into 11-OH-THC and other less psychoactive compounds, respectively. I knew this but I had mostly investigated the P450 system in relation to the metabolism of Sertraline to make myself confident that it was safe to combine them. I hadn't thought about the potential effects on metabolism of THC, mostly since so many other people have experienced this combination without the profoundly different effects that I had. So, you may well be correct that CBD could be changing the active metabolite profile enough to produce this effect in some lucky individuals such as myself. Lucky me!
 
downwardsfromzero
#4 Posted : 7/1/2017 11:52:36 PM

Boundary condition

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Then there's the way the substrates or the metabolites affect the expression of the enzymes themselves through up- or downregulation, and the whole chain of events affecting the production of subjective effects through the CNS and beyond. Sertraline could also have played a role at any or various points throughout these sets of processes. And/or diet, and/or genetics...




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
nonononono
#5 Posted : 7/2/2017 9:55:50 PM

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After looking at some of the Canabanoid metabolism threads there is a lot of good information there.
 
nonononono
#6 Posted : 7/10/2017 7:05:13 AM

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Another experience, another mystery!

This weekend I took 20 mg of CBD in the same full-spectrum oil tincture again, and no additional THC (other then ~1.2 mg of THC in the cap as per the batch analysis of the product). In the past this has produced significant relaxation and anxiolytic effects, but nothing more. I didn't expect any more from the dose this time either. However, I decided to do some meditation, and found that I could find my way back to a head space that felt very similar to my previous CBD+THC experiences. The feeling wasn't as intense as it was with the THC, but had very similar perceptional and mental shifts. Afterwards while listening to some music in a dark room (the lights were FAR too bright and I had to turn them off) I experienced some kaleidoscopic CEVs, dim and mostly red/orange, but I would tell there was more color there that I just couldn't quite see.

In all it seems that the THC potentiates this experience for me, and makes it much easier to access. But I am no longer convinced that it is strictly necessary, the CBD and other cannabinoids may be sufficient on their own.

And still through all 4 experiences that I have had over the last month and a half, I come back with a message from somewhere in these experiences: "seek DMT!"
 
Aum_Shanti
#7 Posted : 7/10/2017 9:03:52 AM
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Quote:
In the past this has produced significant relaxation and anxiolytic effects, but nothing more.


Interesting. For me pure CBD (99%), tested up to a dosage of 500mg, never showed any effects at all. (all done orally)
So the other substances in the extract also seem to have an effect, maybe?
I claim not that this is the truth. As this is just what got manifested into my mind at the current position in time on this physical plane. So please feel not offended by anything I say.
 
nonononono
#8 Posted : 7/11/2017 12:57:30 AM

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Aum_Shanti wrote:
Interesting. For me pure CBD (99%), tested up to a dosage of 500mg, never showed any effects at all. (all done orally)
So the other substances in the extract also seem to have an effect, maybe?


I do not currently have access to 99% pure CBD, so I can't comment on that at the moment. Also, looking back at the test results for the product that I used, I over-estimated the THC dose in my previous post, it is actually closer to 0.9 mg of THC. I really dislike the term "cohort effect" when it comes to Cannabis, but I do think there is something to the full spectrum of compounds vs single isolates.

The consensus among friends who have tried this same batch of oil is that the effects are "very slight", for everyone other then me.
 
nonononono
#9 Posted : 7/12/2017 6:45:21 AM

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Attached are anonymized cannabinoid and terpene profiles for the CBD oil that I am reporting on.
nonononono attached the following image(s):
canna_profile.png (104kb) downloaded 75 time(s).
terp_profile.png (78kb) downloaded 75 time(s).
 
sapphire
#10 Posted : 7/12/2017 5:58:03 PM

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Hi and welcome!

I have some experience with Zoloft, CBD, and cannabis as well. The combination made it very easy, basically automatic, to feel energy moving and pulsing while meditating and listening to music such as this and this.

Do you get a similar effect? I never had visuals but developed a very deep connection to subtle body, energy, chakras .. whatever is actually going on.
 
nonononono
#11 Posted : 7/13/2017 12:23:00 AM

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sapphire wrote:
I have some experience with Zoloft, CBD, and cannabis as well. The combination made it very easy, basically automatic, to feel energy moving and pulsing while meditating and listening to music such as this and this.

Do you get a similar effect? I never had visuals but developed a very deep connection to subtle body, energy, chakras .. whatever is actually going on.


Yes, that is actually where the effects I described start. I have had an experience a number of years ago with vaporized cannabis (no additional CBD, I don't even think I knew what CBD was at the time), where it felt like there were these "whirlpools" of energy up and down my torso in very distinct locations, and each one with a different flavor or focus. Up to that point I hadn't ever researched chakras, other then the knowledge that they are a part of some belief systems. After the experience I researched them, and found that both the placement and their 'flavor' corresponded with the traditional Hindu descriptions. At the time I dismissed it as just another "body high," but with the more recent psychedelic experiences that I have I am re-evaluating almost everything anyway, might as well through this onto the pile as well Smile To be honest, I had forgotten about this experience, thanks for the reminder!

When I add in the CBD to the mix I get that pulsing and energy sensation first, and then that moves into the more mental and visual effects previously described.

Also it is interesting to hear another person who has had something similar happen to them, at least I am not alone in it.
 
nonononono
#12 Posted : 7/17/2017 5:04:21 AM

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Yet another experience: CBD + THC, perceived a large face, looked almost like the bark of a craggy tree (wrapped around a cylinder) crossed with a mechanical clock. It was talking, but I was not "close" enough to hear/understand.
 
 
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