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Ayawaska Churches In Amsterdam Options
 
Rain
#1 Posted : 6/27/2017 2:14:02 PM

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I've been wanting to try ayawaska for some time now in the hope that it will help me deal with traumatic childhood memories from my childhood that resurfaced a few years ago. I'm going back to Amsterdam soon and apparently the ayawaska ceremonies there held in churches. I'm not religious but I've been told that it doesn't matter.

Has anyone experienced this type of ceremony and do you think it could benefit me?
How did we get to a point in a supposedly free society where plants can be illegal and people go to prison for exploring their own spirituality with no effect on others by using natural means that are here for just this purpose and how evil is a society that brainwashes people to make them think that this is even acceptable?
 

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pitubo
#2 Posted : 6/27/2017 3:08:03 PM

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I've been to a Santo Daime church "work" and while it is quite okay as a generally safe introduction to ayahuasca (they call it "daime" ), I doubt that you will find them the best place to deal with your personal issues. The Santo Daime church has its own agenda with their "works" and the overall setting is geared towards a collective "work" in the spirit world.

By restricting the space for personalized experiences through strict group discipline, they do manage to keep freak-outs to a minimum. You will not be sexually abused, because part of their group discipline is maintaining a strict separation of the sexes. Finally, they are not demanding obnoxious amounts of money, just a contribution that is probably in fair proportion to the expenses of running a church organization and importing the daime, exclusively prepared at their headquarters in the Amazon jungle.

Whereas as religious inclination or even agreement is not a prerequisite for attending their works, I did clearly notice the religious overtones and in fact I find their spiritualism rather dodgy. To each their own I guess. Sometimes the "sheriffs" who they employ to maintain the group discipline can be too overzealous or even ridiculously annoying. If you're unlucky they nag you whenever they catch you sitting cross-legged, cross-armed or even cross-handed ("you're disturbing the energy flow!" ) Wut?

If you can stomach the little annoyances, it is generally safe to attend a Santo Daime ceremony a few times to get acquainted with the potion. But if you want to go deeper into it, I would (and did) work on my own and with good friends.

If you want to use ayahuasca for psychological healing, it is probably best to do as much homework on your issues before delving into any kind of medicine. Ayahuasca is not a miracle medicine that will take away and solve all your problems. It can be a useful tool and good preparation helps to use the tool more safely and effectively.

There are a variety of ayahuasca and ayahuasca-like healers on the Dutch "market" but I dare not recommend any, as I have no personal experience with any of them. Nor do I know any websites that advertise such services. You'd have to do some digging around I guess.
 
tseuq
#3 Posted : 6/27/2017 4:03:09 PM

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pitubo wrote:
If you want to use ayahuasca for psychological healing, it is probably best to do as much homework on your issues before delving into any kind of medicine. Ayahuasca is not a miracle medicine that will take away and solve all your problems. It can be a useful tool and good preparation helps to use the tool more safely and effectively.


Spot on!

Sry for bringing some offtopicness to the thread but this caught my attention.

Offtopic:
pitubo wrote:
You will not be sexually abused, because part of their group discipline is maintaining a strict separation of the sexes.


Does this separation really ensures safty? What about sexual assaults in f.e. prisons or in the army, there are many slippery stories about "who's gonna pick up the soap from the ground". Beside of that, how do they handle homo- or bi-oriented humans?

Even if they ask people of their sexual identity before separation, a trans-man can still bring up sexual energy/desire in some other cis-men.
Wut?


Welcome to nexus Rain and all the best on your way, tseuq
Everything's sooo peyote-ful..
 
Rain
#4 Posted : 6/27/2017 4:29:42 PM

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Thanks for the replies and the welcome.

pitubo wrote:
If you want to use ayahuasca for psychological healing, it is probably best to do as much homework on your issues before delving into any kind of medicine. Ayahuasca is not a miracle medicine that will take away and solve all your problems. It can be a useful tool and good preparation helps to use the tool more safely and effectively.
I've done quite a bit of research and it seems that ayahuasca is a very effective way of processing traumatic memories because it creates a bridge between the amygdala where they're stored and the conscious part of the brain. It isn't a nice experience because it forces you to relive it but I can definitely see how that would be effective.

I even spoke to a councillor about and she was fascinated and said it made perfect sense. There are quite a few people trying to make it a legal treatment for PTSD.

I did try brewing it myself the last time I was in Holland, four bloody times. I had two types of active ingredient and two inhibitors so I tried each combination. I did my homework and even used distilled water but it had no effect at all. I did an experiment and took a double dose of my first mushroom, the strongest they did, called dragon slayer. I got high for about twenty minutes (which was a lovely high) but apart from that, nothing. I might be one of those rare people who are immune to psychedelic drugs, I hope not. It might also have been a defence mechanism because my brain knew what I was trying to do.
How did we get to a point in a supposedly free society where plants can be illegal and people go to prison for exploring their own spirituality with no effect on others by using natural means that are here for just this purpose and how evil is a society that brainwashes people to make them think that this is even acceptable?
 
Michel
#5 Posted : 6/28/2017 7:35:02 AM

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Rain, I suggest strongly that you try this amazing tribe: http://www.ayahuasca.nl/home.html with Roberto and Rini.
They offer some of the most beautiful, deep, serious and healing ceremonies in Europe (as far as I know - and I know few of them).
The only problem is that they are always full. First, ask to be on the mailing list, then when an event pop up, you have maybe 30 minutes max to book; if it is already too late, book on the waiting list and do some prayer: many times this works Smile
You will need also to tell them sincerely your personal story.

In Den Haage there is also a pure Santo-Daime church. I can give you a link if you like, but, as Pitubo explained, you may feel inconfortable with their "work".
However, one may find in the SD work a very deep spiritual path vs of just "getting experiences".

I which you the best.

@ tseuq: Laughing Laughing Laughing
 
Rain
#6 Posted : 6/28/2017 3:05:25 PM

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Thank you very much Michel, that seems perfect. I've got some reading to do. Smile
How did we get to a point in a supposedly free society where plants can be illegal and people go to prison for exploring their own spirituality with no effect on others by using natural means that are here for just this purpose and how evil is a society that brainwashes people to make them think that this is even acceptable?
 
pitubo
#7 Posted : 6/28/2017 3:56:26 PM

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Michel wrote:
In Den Haage there is also a pure Santo-Daime church. I can give you a link if you like, but, as Pitubo explained, you may feel inconfortable with their "work".
However, one may find in the SD work a very deep spiritual path vs of just "getting experiences".

One thing I forgot to mention, the Santo Daime church requires participants to dress in all white clothes. Also, they have different types of services: with 6 hours of "dancing", with 6 hours of "singing" and with 6 hours of "concentration". Try to attend the latter one, if you can, because that gives most opportunities to have a bit of a personal experience.

By the way, I think I would actually be more uncomfortable with some "shamans" than with Santo Daime, that is why I recommend them over just "any" shaman. Some shamans may do a better job, but others can do a lot of damage. While some might find some of Santo Daime's idiosyncrasies annoying, at least they provide a reasonably safe setting.

Shamans and facilitators come in a wide range of qualities and abilities. Some barely know how to brew themselves, and in case of misfires excuse themselves by claiming that "the plant won't speak today", while others make a potent brew but have even more potent ego issues of their own. Some have genuine therapeutic intentions and abilities, others only care about stuffing their wallets and maybe grab some pussy as a bonus. The ayahuasca shaman market is a jungle with many pitfalls.

Don't be hypnotized by the words "ayahuasca" or "shaman". Those are only labels, not a guarantee for delivery on promises, suggestions or expectations. Always use your common sense and stay responsible for your own actions and demand the same from the people you are investing your trust in. Keep your judgment suspended and don't buy into grandiose promises.

tseuq wrote:
Even if they ask people of their sexual identity before separation, a trans-man can still bring up sexual energy/desire in some other cis-men. Wut?

I cannot say. To me, whenever I meet one, trans-men have always felt like guys wearing lipstick. Maybe I can sense the presence of Y-chromosomes?

Perhaps you should put on some lipstick and a white dress and try out a Sante Daime church service? Tell us what it was like! Big grin
 
Rain
#8 Posted : 6/28/2017 4:35:40 PM

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pitubo wrote:
tseuq wrote:
Even if they ask people of their sexual identity before separation, a trans-man can still bring up sexual energy/desire in some other cis-men. Wut?
I cannot say. To me, whenever I meet one, trans-men have always felt like guys wearing lipstick. Maybe I can sense the presence of Y-chromosomes?
That would be a handy skill for me to learn if I go back to Amsterdam, just in case. Big grin
How did we get to a point in a supposedly free society where plants can be illegal and people go to prison for exploring their own spirituality with no effect on others by using natural means that are here for just this purpose and how evil is a society that brainwashes people to make them think that this is even acceptable?
 
tseuq
#9 Posted : 6/29/2017 1:01:55 PM

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offtopic:
pitubo wrote:
.. trans-men have always felt like guys wearing lipstick. Maybe I can sense the presence of Y-chromosomes?


Confusion danger: I learned some days ago... trans-man is a genetical woman who feels being male, while trans-woman is a genetical male who identifies "herself" with female gender.

pitubo wrote:
Perhaps you should put on some lipstick and a white dress and try out a Sante Daime church service? Tell us what it was like! Big grin


Yes, let's dress up and partipate together! That would be fun and I am still looking forward to party with you. Laughing


tseuq
Everything's sooo peyote-ful..
 
Rain
#10 Posted : 6/30/2017 10:40:52 AM

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Michel wrote:
In Den Haage there is also a pure Santo-Daime church. I can give you a link if you like, but, as Pitubo explained, you may feel inconfortable with their "work".
However, one may find in the SD work a very deep spiritual path vs of just "getting experiences".
Can I have that link please. The only ones I found were ones like this: http://www.stjohn-stphilip.org that don't seem to match the Santo Daime church: https://www.revolvy.com/topic/Santo%20Daime&item_type=topic

Did you recommend The Hague because you think it's better than the ones in Amsterdam?

I did join the mailing list for the one you recommended but I was hoping to do it sooner.
How did we get to a point in a supposedly free society where plants can be illegal and people go to prison for exploring their own spirituality with no effect on others by using natural means that are here for just this purpose and how evil is a society that brainwashes people to make them think that this is even acceptable?
 
Michel
#11 Posted : 6/30/2017 4:22:16 PM

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Hello Rain,

You can find the contact of Céu dos Ventos on this page: http://www.santodaime.nl/bijwonen-en-contact.html
I have no experience of the Céu da Santa Maria. Despite their sympathetic names Wink , I have heard from people in Den Haage that they are kind of "even more rigid"... Anyway, they have their contact on the same page.

In Italy and Belgium there are very beautiful SD churches too, but they cannot be as officials as those in Holland so I can give you some contact, but privately.

A work I really love is the one of the Linea Unificada, which is a mix of SD, UDV, Mestre Francisco's work, and the linea Oriental, represented for example by Prem Baba. It happens in Greece, Switzerland, Italy, and Check Republic. Chandra Lacombe was also from this lineage. Idem for the contacts.

In Germany there are incredibly beautiful ceremonies too. Some are more following the Peruvian style : darkness, icaros like here or here, purges, ... I cannot give names publicly, sorry.

I am glad that you booked on the mailing list for Norberto and Rini: you can really trust them and you will never regret to attend a ceremony with them (even if it is a little more expensive than SD). I heard that Norberto was the helper of Baxina since he was 14. She found several new ways to work with the Medicine, but she was not allowed to step out of her traditional lineage, so now, Norberto is experimenting those new wonderful paths...

Bonus...

 
Rain
#12 Posted : 7/1/2017 3:08:39 PM

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Thanks Michel. For others who are interested I found this handy ayahuasca retreat finder: https://www.ayamundo.com
How did we get to a point in a supposedly free society where plants can be illegal and people go to prison for exploring their own spirituality with no effect on others by using natural means that are here for just this purpose and how evil is a society that brainwashes people to make them think that this is even acceptable?
 
Infectedstyle
#13 Posted : 7/1/2017 8:43:07 PM
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Well I have this mail:

Quote:
Lovely people,

With a lot of pleasure i organize 2 weekends with Curanderos Wilmer & Musician Artur from the Peruvian amazone in Holland. Ready to heal and clean our spirits and souls in 3 ceremonies guided by Wilmer and Artur who is with us with his amazing music. I have been working for 6 years with Don Jose who has Artur in his team and Wilmer. Wilmer (the nephew of Jose) works years independent and is guiding diets too in the jungle camp Munay of Don Jose. We will be in save experience hands.

We have a great team for cooking and helping to assist the ceremonies so we can drop in deeply for our healing and enjoy the beautiful songs from the amazone.

Dates:
1/2/3 September 2017
22/23/24 September 2017


If ur really interested PM for contact info.

This is one I have been eager to go. Don jose has a nice little book written and seems like a very humble conductor. Also trained form a young age. I trust those shamans more than the average Ayahuasca conductor from western origin.

The santo daime strikes me as a culture. Ready to pick you into their culture. It has sect-like tendencies. But they strive for the path that we talk about (that is use of sacraments). And it's hard to draw the line where you are instructing a path or instructing a religion. But it's a very powerful construct non-theless.

 
Michel
#14 Posted : 7/1/2017 9:34:35 PM

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Quote:
And it's hard to draw the line where you are instructing a path or instructing a religion.

That's true. But some love to sing to Jesus and Maria, others to Wakatanka, the Great Spirit, others to Ganesha, Shiva or Rama, others to Yemanja, Oshum, Yansa, etc ... At the end does it makes any difference ?
In my opinion, there are just different vocabularies, the main thing is to pray, and to pray is being grateful for life, seeing its sacredness everywhere.

Amor e Alegria
 
Infectedstyle
#15 Posted : 7/1/2017 10:02:42 PM
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Yes. Shiva, The supreme, whoever you name it

Quote:
the main thing is to pray, and to pray is being grateful for life, seeing its sacredness everywhere.


*touches palms under head*


There is much to be thankful for to see people singing to 'god' in whichever language. Under the influence of Ayahuasca it is a beautiful sight to behold to see everyone vibrant. I know part of it is self-responsibility and part of it is what they bring to the equation. But you have to be able to discern what you see. If you can actually understand the lyrics it's much easier to discern the fuzz. They sing about nature and stuff. If you do not speak portugese like me. It's easy to get confused about what is going on especially if you are a complete outsider. I mean you have to slowly be introduced into the culture. I really just wanted to watch and not sing. But they really want you to join in with the game. But I'm not a people person, the healing has not been done with me I suppose. Laughing This is why I think the bigger churches are more fit for an actual 'audience' position. The Den Haag one is a tight-knit family. Really amazingly special people. And sweet too. Ayahuasca really helps to make you see that.

Now that I think about it. The religion seems to be the main goal of the church. Ayahuasca helps to mediate between the core people of it's religion/culture and it's disciples. And that is great. Thumbs up

yoo
 
Rain
#16 Posted : 7/5/2017 3:13:10 PM

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Infectedstyle wrote:
Well I have this mail:
Quote:
Lovely people,

With a lot of pleasure i organize 2 weekends with Curanderos Wilmer & Musician Artur from the Peruvian amazone in Holland. Ready to heal and clean our spirits and souls in 3 ceremonies guided by Wilmer and Artur who is with us with his amazing music. I have been working for 6 years with Don Jose who has Artur in his team and Wilmer. Wilmer (the nephew of Jose) works years independent and is guiding diets too in the jungle camp Munay of Don Jose. We will be in save experience hands.

We have a great team for cooking and helping to assist the ceremonies so we can drop in deeply for our healing and enjoy the beautiful songs from the amazone.

Dates:
1/2/3 September 2017
22/23/24 September 2017
If ur really interested PM for contact info.

This is one I have been eager to go. Don jose has a nice little book written and seems like a very humble conductor. Also trained form a young age. I trust those shamans more than the average Ayahuasca conductor from western origin.
Thanks for the info.

Infectedstyle wrote:
The santo daime strikes me as a culture. Ready to pick you into their culture. It has sect-like tendencies. But they strive for the path that we talk about (that is use of sacraments). And it's hard to draw the line where you are instructing a path or instructing a religion. But it's a very powerful construct non-theless.
The religious (not the spiritual) aspect is the only thing that puts me off. Like this one I'm thinking of signing up for: http://www.ayahuasca-ceremonies.org The website is very much, 'this is how reality is and this is what you need to do' which is very offputting. I think they should let people experience it and interpret it based on their own experiences.

This also raised a red flag:
"Treatments for Karmic Body Removal
We can remove your Karmic Body with all its trauma, pain, suffering, bad spirits, demons, entities, past live influences and ancestor attachments in one treatment during the ayahuasca-ceremony. This will cost you 150 Euro extra. This is the most powerful and profound healing someone can receive. It leads to liberation from the Matrix and the Reincarnation Cycle. This treatment needs only to be done one time and we ( me or one of my co-healers) can do it in the ceremony. It is also possible to receive this treatment without the use of ayahuasca. Then you have to come for an individual healing session ,but we prefer to do it in the group sessions."

They're doing one on the 15th of this month. Does this seem like a dodgy one, a fairly typical one or better than most?
How did we get to a point in a supposedly free society where plants can be illegal and people go to prison for exploring their own spirituality with no effect on others by using natural means that are here for just this purpose and how evil is a society that brainwashes people to make them think that this is even acceptable?
 
Infectedstyle
#17 Posted : 7/5/2017 4:42:39 PM
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I'd do it just for the heck of it. Like, claims such proposterous need to be examined and tested. Most likely it's a dud and that's what you are out to proof but there's 2% chance there might be something there.

I think it's a sales pitch. For some extra 1 on 1 time I think it's an OK endaevour if you are into that. I am not but I would love to be treated one day with utmost care by knowledgeable people. Which they kind of are.

150 euro is peanuts. I'm not the one to coax you into doing something you might not want to do but at this point you got so far.. Very happy

If it's nothing you can always do ayauasca at home anyway
 
psychedelicquest
#18 Posted : 7/6/2017 1:17:50 PM
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Hey there,

Just thought I'd add this:

Last year I went for my very first ceremony at Om-Mij (in Doetinchem). It was a very positive experience. It's a well-run place with good, caring guides, nice people and a very comfortable setting.

The only thing that made me book somewhere else this year is the music. They play music through speakers and I found it to be quite corny. Verging on cliche yoga / spiritual music.

But definitely an OK company in my opinion who take the work seriously.

This year I've booked with De Gewijde Reis / The Sacred Journey. They offer live music and ceremony leaders have therapeutic background.

In comparison Om-Mij seemed to be more about pure comfortable facilitation. The Sacred Journey seems to be more about adding a therapeutic element to it and getting you into a good mindset before starting.

Cheers,
Psychedelicquest
 
Rain
#19 Posted : 7/12/2017 11:12:28 PM

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Now on the ferry to Holland. Smile

I'll let you know how it goes.
How did we get to a point in a supposedly free society where plants can be illegal and people go to prison for exploring their own spirituality with no effect on others by using natural means that are here for just this purpose and how evil is a society that brainwashes people to make them think that this is even acceptable?
 
Rain
#20 Posted : 7/18/2017 6:26:28 PM

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Now on the ferry from Holland.

That was an interesting experience, not as intense as I was expecting. I'll describe the actual trip separately.

The people seemed liked a really good group, a mixture in ages but mostly in their twenties and into connecting to nature or a higher state/great drug trips/yoga, etc.

The woman running it was very much imposing her less than what I class as plausable views, I would have prefered a more open 'conductor'. I also wish they'd given me more when I asked for it a couple of hours in.

This was a very positive experience that I'd love to take deeper.
How did we get to a point in a supposedly free society where plants can be illegal and people go to prison for exploring their own spirituality with no effect on others by using natural means that are here for just this purpose and how evil is a society that brainwashes people to make them think that this is even acceptable?
 
 
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