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Thoughts about Kratom after trying it. Double edged. Options
 
skoobysnax
#1 Posted : 6/24/2017 4:56:39 AM

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Recently I got a small bag of Kratom out of curiosity after reading up a bit. With some trepidation because it can be habit forming. To qualify this I am a recovering addict who uses entheogens infrequently as part of my own spiritual path. I use small amounts of cannabis. Never before 9pm except for very very rare occasions. I have been clean fro alcohol and all hard drugs for almost a decade. I was a polydrug abuser with heavy crack use.

I was working a creative task on a deadline. Four 12hr days and a tight deadline.

Starting with a low dose 2.5 level TSP. I found the energy useful. Smoother than coffee, not at all like speed but cognitive boost. Made me talky...
End of day I took 6tsp + and got into a very wakeful dreaming state doing restorative yoga on the come up. It felt sexy. I got in bed and never felt like I slept but was able to be very still. Counting breaths. Cannot say if I ever really fell into full on sleep.

So the next day was a bit wonky. Day 2 skipped Kratom but kinda craved it.

Late in the day on day 3 I used a level TBSP around 6p then 2 more later around 11p. Desire to re-dose before bed so i took 2tsp. Fell asleep OK that night. Seemed to not hit me as hard. Woke at 3am and seemed to interfere with my ability to sleep deeply although sedative. I could feel my addictive mind reaching out.

Day 4 I used my last TBSP + during the last push to finish. It helped but for me I could see having this on hand would not go well down the road.

I can see how this could help a using addict immensely if they have some guidance in using it to ween off the drugs that will kill a person and that it is very effective in many positive ways. This is just for me but my feeling is that I felt some personal red flags go off so I feel it isn't the best herb for my pantry. It sets off my pleasure sensors and i have a malfunctioning off switch. Urges to re-dose when the level is perfect. I also felt like it taxed my kidneys a bit. No proof but it also seemed diuretic.

Hopefully users research well before diving in. It should remain unscheduled so it can be researched for long term effects IMO. The fear police feel otherwise but since it is not deadly and has medicinal value I hope level heads prevail. If I had a serious injury I would ditch the Opoids and get Kratom. If you have addictive tendencies proceed with caution.
Marijuana, LSD, psilocybin, and DMT they all changed the way I see
But love's the only thing that ever saved my life - Sturgill Simpson "Turtles all the Way Down"

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OfTheVoid46
#2 Posted : 6/24/2017 2:49:46 PM

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First of all to be lame here I must ask folks please do not weight with spoons.
You could have from 1/2 to 2x of what you think you do, easily.

In that situation - it is dangerous.

For people like myself that shot up dope for years on end it was a life saver.

I've made many mistakes with it over time and to get to the point - only 5-g/day max

A level TBSP is around 5-10g on average so SOME TIMES I'll be lazy and use a scoop but only since I've been using it for two years daily now.

Don't go overboard. Don't try to get high. You may get high once or twice but after that ends one may find themselves taking spoon after spoon to get high.

As a former addict I'd like to mention I never got withdrawal from oxy or dope, even after shooting multiple times daily.

I made a mistake during one period of using too much kratom every day for a few months and then I got true withdrawal, the kind I always bragged I never got from opiates.

It's a great tool with moderation. A lot less fiendish than oxy/dope for me but still something to show a little respect to.

I'm sharing general thought here.

To the OP - be careful if you're an ex-addict. You won't overdose, you'll just make yourself sick BUT withdrawal on this stuff is real if you push it too much. Although you didn't use the word specifically, as a former addict you could find yourself in a shitty (literally) situation if you try to get too much out of it.

Think of ephedrine. People make meth from which you can get really high. If you take ephedrine by itself it can be quite nice but not near the same. If you take too much, you won't get high like from meth but instead just feel like shit.

In that - Kratom = ephedrine, oxy/dope = meth.
 
kerelsk
#3 Posted : 6/24/2017 3:25:27 PM

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This is a little interesting to me since all the kratom I've tried has given me odd side effects like fish-eye sight, heavy pressure in my forehead, a disagreeable buzzing sensation almost like high-dose nicotine...

I used it for a while despite this, but ultimately pushed it away, not for me.

For those with the compulsion it does seem to be a complicated topic of self-control, use, and usefulness.
It's more stimulatory than traditional opioid painkillers, and as such seems like it would have a broader set of times in which to take for benefit. Likewise that would seem a little dangerous to have a substance that's "helpful" potentially almost all the time.

For me the energy, the spirit is a little disagreeable to be around.

Keep those eyes open Smile
 
skoobysnax
#4 Posted : 6/24/2017 8:23:34 PM

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The stuff i had, sold as Golden Bali, which the person at the tea shop said was the avg. potency, not to strong not to weak, weighed avg of 1.8g level teaspoon. So i did weigh and followed Daniel Seibert's dosage rec for the effects. The effects were what the chart said. Just mentioning this because I do not ever take compounds willy nilly. The report is more about how I instantly knew that for me this is an herb I wont keep around however useful it could be. I do use MDMA as a tool. It also has addictive qualities but knowing the magic is gone for me if i use more than once in a 3 month cycle I have been able to set a proper protocol. I just dont feel Kratom is an entheogen so its not for me. I am sure others will beg to differ about whether or not it is a teacher plant. To me it does have remarkable medicinal properties but none I require.
Marijuana, LSD, psilocybin, and DMT they all changed the way I see
But love's the only thing that ever saved my life - Sturgill Simpson "Turtles all the Way Down"

Why am I here?
 
kerelsk
#5 Posted : 6/24/2017 9:44:28 PM

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Yeah I wouldn't want to judge anyone using kratom especially. Think of all the coffeeheads around, drinking massive amounts.
It's easily a safer thing to be into than a lot of activities humans engage in (driving for example...)

I agree scoobysnax that it has remarkable properties, but def not for everyone.
For those it does help, it does seem to be a godsend for certain conditions.
 
SkunK
#6 Posted : 6/24/2017 9:44:55 PM

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I've got a pound and a half of some Kratom Kicking around the stash drawer. Like any other active plant respect needs to be given. No matter what it is.

I've only used it twice at fairly high doses from what I've read, and used it for the relaxing properties I was told came with higher doses. 7g was simaluar to poppy pod tea IME. The three times I used it were a month apart, and after a long stressful week of work where I needed to just relax in bed and recoup. Worked really well I got some great rest and had really lucid dreams while I slept those evenings and woke up well rested. I've yet to try it at lower doses for its stimulating effects so can't comment there.

Seeing as I did it at 1 month intervals I didn't notice any cravings and definitely not withdrawal symptoms from my few spaced out attemps. But my research told me different if this plant and alkaloids are used and abused. I think it's all about moderation with any substance, even coffee if I drink it daily doesn't give me the effect I need, unless I drink a whole pot to my self daily. So people just need to research what they are using and understand the pros and cons.

Definitely a useful plant if the user can control them self and use it only sparingly and for specific reasons. And this plant has helped a lot of people who need the benefits that come from this plant.



Skunk
The best time to sow a seed was 5 years ago.... the next best time is right now.
 
Psilociraptor
#7 Posted : 8/3/2017 10:40:15 PM
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I've never had withdrawal on Kratom and i've been on and off it for years. Often times cold turkey. I have to say i have a love/hate relationship with this plant. The psychological addiction is real. As it is with caffeine. But particularly annoying for me is the way i feel after the peak. I get irritable as i'm coming down. Nothing extreme. Just sensitive to excessive stimulation so that even my wife talking to me will drive me nuts. The nausea can be problematic if i'm too active as well. But then during the peak i get a very nice second wind and focus on whatever i'm doing. It makes things like internet and reading 10x more enjoyable. I'll get absorbed into books in ways i can't do sober. It's a very meditative experience in a way.
 
 
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