We've Moved! Visit our NEW FORUM to join the latest discussions. This is an archive of our previous conversations...

You can find the login page for the old forum here.
CHATPRIVACYDONATELOGINREGISTER
DMT-Nexus
FAQWIKIHEALTH & SAFETYARTATTITUDEACTIVE TOPICS
«PREV678910NEXT
Advaita Vedanta - ancient wisdom Options
 
Swarupa
#141 Posted : 5/28/2015 10:43:14 AM
DMT-Nexus member

Senior Member

Posts: 1178
Joined: 12-Oct-2010
Last visit: 08-Jan-2022
I've found that the teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi capture the quintessence of Advaita Vedanta, beautifully reviving the ancient teachings for a modern age. Ramana actually had very little education in Advaita yet after his Self-realization at the age of 16 spoke in perfect alignment with the Sages that were alive centuries before, he mainly advocated the paths of Self-inquiry and Satsang.

Here's a Sri Ramana Maharishi thread i started a while back.

I love how the highest truth of Advaita (Ajata) parallels the highest truth of science...

There is neither creation nor destruction,
neither destiny nor free will,
neither path nor achievement


or

Energy cannot be created or destroyed

औं
 

Live plants. Sustainable, ethically sourced, native American owned.
 
nen888
#142 Posted : 6/1/2015 1:56:45 AM
member for the trees

Acacia expert | Skills: Acacia, Botany, Tryptamines, CounsellingExtraordinary knowledge | Skills: Acacia, Botany, Tryptamines, CounsellingSenior Member | Skills: Acacia, Botany, Tryptamines, Counselling

Posts: 4003
Joined: 28-Jun-2011
Last visit: 05-Feb-2024
^..thank you Chronic for the Ramana link, the post, and good to hear from you..

you wrote:
Quote:
I love how the highest truth of Advaita (Ajata) parallels the highest truth of science...

..yes, one of the strong points of Advaita Vedanta is that it uses intellect and observation..

..the core thing i think in progressing with Advaita (which can be missing from 'neo-advaita') is to find techniques which work for the individual..this is why i think (as well as intellect) devotion, bhakti, karma yoga as well as physical yoga, mantra, meditation, and ecstatic techniques like dance, all strengthen the true integration of this path, with different modes suiting different individuals..


it's said in the Advaita Bodha Deepika (one of Ramana's favourite works) :

"Though Vedanta is read and well understood, if dispassion is not practised, the desire for pleasures will not fade away. There is no dislike for pleasing things and the desire for them cannot leave the person. Because desire is not checked, love, anger, etc., the ego or the ‘false-I’ in the obnoxious body, the sense of possession represented by ‘I’ or ‘mine’ of things agreeable to the body, the pairs of opposites like pleasure and pain, and false values, will not disappear. However well read one may be, unless the teachings are put into practice, one is not really learned. Only like a parrot the man will be repeating that Brahman alone is real and all else is false."
(ch.III)

..ultimately i think opening the heart is one of the deepest of keys in all this..

of the parallels with science, in Vedanta we have the Bindu..the point (which is of course infinitely small..a point in maths has no size) from which the universe emerges..this could be likened as well to the 'zero-point energy' or vacuum energy..
.



"..devoid of senses [It] shines through the functions of the senses...

The Self, smaller than the small, greater than the great, is hidden in the hearts of creatures."


(Svetasvatara Upanishad)


.

 
Swarupa
#143 Posted : 6/2/2015 10:21:56 AM
DMT-Nexus member

Senior Member

Posts: 1178
Joined: 12-Oct-2010
Last visit: 08-Jan-2022
Ah, The Lamp of Non-dual Knowledge is quite the book, thanks for reminding me of it. Old school hardcore Advaita, 'shun the objects of the senses as if they are poison' style, and laying down a lot of the prerequisites for awakening.

I agree that understanding must be heartfelt and not merely intellectual, just as reading and learning words doesn't amount to knowledge. I like the analogy of food and digestion, as reading a recipe, preparing the meal, smelling the food... doesn't amount to eating, digesting and assimilating the food so that its essence becomes a part of you.

I've attached links to The Lamp of Non-dual Knowledge (Advaita Bodha Deepika) & All is One (Elam Ondre) another sweet little book recommended by Ramana.
 
Rising Spirit
#144 Posted : 6/3/2015 3:19:28 AM

'Tis A Looooooong Wind Blowing Cosmic Dust


Posts: 833
Joined: 15-Feb-2010
Last visit: 12-Aug-2023
Location: Vermont
Thumbs up Thumbs up


There is no self to which I cling, for I am one with everything.
 
nen888
#145 Posted : 8/3/2015 1:13:42 AM
member for the trees

Acacia expert | Skills: Acacia, Botany, Tryptamines, CounsellingExtraordinary knowledge | Skills: Acacia, Botany, Tryptamines, CounsellingSenior Member | Skills: Acacia, Botany, Tryptamines, Counselling

Posts: 4003
Joined: 28-Jun-2011
Last visit: 05-Feb-2024
..thank you again Chronic and Rising Spirit..and all contributors..

i've been not in a language based mode so much of late, with regards to this subject..

which brings me back to a, if not the, core basis of Advaita Vedanta..and one emphasised by Ramana, and of course the old sages long before him..self enquiry - Vichara

the words, the intellect, the premise and any description stem from this method of 'observation'...free from preconception..and the teachings of method and conduct aim to increase the clarity of such observation..which can stem from and lead to the opening of the heart..
.

..Adi Shankaracharya wrote, in Aparokshanubhuti:

- "The Atman that is absolute existence and knowledge cannot be realized without constant practice. So one seeking after knowledge should long meditate upon Brahman for the attainment of the desired goal.
The steps, in order, are described as follows: the control of the senses, the control of the mind, renunciation, silence, space, time, posture, the restraining root (Mulabandha), the equipoise of the body, the firmness of vision, the control of the vital forces, the withdrawal of the mind, concentration, self-contemplation and complete absorption."
(101-103)

"Thus has been described Raja-Yoga consisting of these steps (mentioned above). With this is to be combined Hatha-Yoga for (the benefit of) those whose worldly desires are partially attenuated." "For those whose mind is completely purified this (Raja-Yoga) alone is productive of perfection. Purity of the mind, again, is speedily accessible to those who are devoted to the teacher and the Deity."
(143-144)

..it can be seen that Shankara, in the true Advaita Vedanta tradition, emphasised the need for both technique and practice (unlike much 'neo-advaita', which takes a 'there is nothing to do'/'you are already perfect' kind of approach)
..the wisest of old sages say it takes work to reach the full realisation of the non-dual..
the more work, the more easily the 'rewards' of the objective will flow..
and the constant cycling of suffering will lessen it's distractive hold..
.


Quote:

"THAT is not touched by name and form, is different from name and form, (and) yet IT is their manifester...

'Sah atma', IT is the Self because the Self in the case of all creatures is well-known to be the inmost consciousness, intuited subjectively.

After ascertaining IT to be of that very nature, the unembodied Self which is All-pervasive like space ,
is to be realized as Brahman."


(Sri Adi Shankaracharya - in his commentary on the Chandogya Upanishad)

ॐ.
nen888 attached the following image(s):
ॐ..jpg (67kb) downloaded 398 time(s).
 
Swarupa
#146 Posted : 8/6/2015 3:00:49 PM
DMT-Nexus member

Senior Member

Posts: 1178
Joined: 12-Oct-2010
Last visit: 08-Jan-2022
Thankyou for the words nen888, I also have periods where words just don't come for this... I agree that some effort is necessary, while it's true that ultimately there is nothing to do and nowhere to go in order to be as we always are, that 'distractive hold' of the mind is so habitual it can only be seen through with earnest effort. Whether that be through raja-yoga, karma-yoga, jnana-yoga or good ol bhakti ♥

These are some lovely verses that I came across in the mighty Ribhu Gita recently, an Advaita text of over 2000 verses said to be over 7000 years old...

There is nothing apart from that undivided Supreme Brahman.
All is that undivided Supreme Brahman.
That undivided Supreme Brahman is, indeed, myself.
I am that undivided Supreme Brahman.
Being thus of the firm conviction (bhava) regarding the undivided Supreme Brahman,
And after the sense of there being even an atom apart from it is erased,
And after casting aside even that supreme, undivided conviction
Be established as the nature of Bliss.

Casting aside even that 'nature of Bliss,'
Firmly abide as the One Existence.
Casting aside even that 'One Existence' - with nothing apart -
Remain attributeless.
Casting out even 'the attributeless,'
Remain as the nature beyond mind and speech.
Casting aside even that, abide just as Knowledge -
And leaving off even that, abide as the Self.

Leaving that also aside,
Abide as Brahman alone.
Leaving aside all that has been said here,
Abide as the true Void.
Then without any conditionings such as the mind,
Remain as the indescribable Void.
Leaving aside even this 'Void'
Whatever nature remains, exist as that nature.

After losing even the nature of remaining so,
You will be yourself -
The state which can not described by words
Or thought of by the mind in the least.
Hence, after reaching That, the natural state,
you will be by yourself, all alone, as yourself
Who can describe or think of that state
Which is without the least doubt or delusion?

Casting aside all as explained thus above,
Remain in your own nature as the pure Supreme Existence.
Inquire into this daily and meditate
That it is the undivided 'I' that is relinquishing all this.
The constant inquiry and meditation
That I, indeed, am the infinite, undivided Supreme,
Is the means for achieving nirvikapala (the undifferentiated state) -
The mind-transcending serenity of Supreme Consciousness


 
nen888
#147 Posted : 12/1/2015 12:30:53 PM
member for the trees

Acacia expert | Skills: Acacia, Botany, Tryptamines, CounsellingExtraordinary knowledge | Skills: Acacia, Botany, Tryptamines, CounsellingSenior Member | Skills: Acacia, Botany, Tryptamines, Counselling

Posts: 4003
Joined: 28-Jun-2011
Last visit: 05-Feb-2024
om swarupa _/\_

..i’m really happy this thread ran…and thank you everyone who chipped in..

at core, Vedanta is a system of investigation, to arrive at the nature of reality…
it can be completely rational/observational, as well as completely faith based/ectstatic..or in between..Vedanta (meaning stemming from the teachings of the Vedas) is inherently accepting of pluralism..

i do notice the impact of Ramana on a few nexians here…bless him..
he does distill things very finely to an essence..
it’s true that the core question of Advaita Vedanta is, as Ramana so often pointed out,
‘Who am I?’, which can particularly be applied by a rational mind in the determination of the existence of consciousness..
consciousness established, the (poetic) approach of ’Neti-Neti’ (‘not this, not this’) can be applied to It..in the phase transition from form and mind (solid) to the non-temporal ‘ether’ or continuum of experience..
and the initial question is answered as ‘That’.

..it’s staying aware of ‘that’ where the ongoing work is, whichever path or route is chosen..
.


...

"This does not kill nor is it killed. This Âtman, subtler than the subtlest, and greater than the greatest, resides within the cave (the Buddhi) of the Jîvas. He whose heart is purified and who is free from Sankalpa and Vikalpa (doubt and mental phenomena), knows It and Its glory and is free from sorrows and troubles.

Know this Âtman and Buddhi as the charioteer, this body as the chariot, and the mind as the reins. The senses and their organs are the horses and the objects of enjoyments are their aims. The sages declare that the Âtman united with mind and organs of senses enjoys the objects. He who is non- discriminating, unmindful, and always impure, does not realise his Âtman; rather he is bound in this world. He who is discriminating, mindful, and always pure reaches the Goal, realises the Highest Self; and he is not fallen again from That.

That man becomes able to cross the Ocean of Samsâra and gets My Highest Abode, of the nature of everlasting Existence, Intelligence and Bliss, whose charioteer is Discrimination, and who keeps his senses under control by keeping tight the reins of his mind. Thus one should always meditate intensely on Me to realise the nature of Self by S'ravanam (hearing), Mananam thinking and realising one's own self by one's Self (pure heart)."

- Srimad Devi Purana
.
 
#148 Posted : 1/19/2016 10:04:58 AM
DMT-Nexus member

ModeratorSenior Member

Posts: 4612
Joined: 17-Jan-2009
Last visit: 01-Jan-2023
From Chapter 11 of the Gita, and my favorite chapter id have to say. Speaks for itself:

Chapter Eleven: The Universal Form
Bg 11.1 — Arjuna said: By my hearing the instructions You have kindly given me about these most confidential spiritual subjects, my illusion has now been dispelled.

Bg 11.2 — O lotus-eyed one, I have heard from You in detail about the appearance and disappearance of every living entity and have realized Your inexhaustible glories.

Bg 11.3 — O greatest of all personalities, O supreme form, though I see You here before me in Your actual position, as You have described Yourself, I wish to see how You have entered into this cosmic manifestation. I want to see that form of Yours.

Bg 11.4 — If You think that I am able to behold Your cosmic form, O my Lord, O master of all mystic power, then kindly show me that unlimited universal Self.

Bg 11.5 — The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Arjuna, O son of Pṛthā, see now My opulences, hundreds of thousands of varied divine and multicolored forms.

Bg 11.6 — O best of the Bhāratas, see here the different manifestations of Ādityas, Vasus, Rudras, Aśvinī-kumāras and all the other demigods. Behold the many wonderful things which no one has ever seen or heard of before.

Bg 11.7 — O Arjuna, whatever you wish to see, behold at once in this body of Mine! This universal form can show you whatever you now desire to see and whatever you may want to see in the future. Everything – moving and nonmoving – is here completely, in one place.

Bg 11.8 — But you cannot see Me with your present eyes. Therefore I give you divine eyes. Behold My mystic opulence!

Bg 11.9 — Sañjaya said: O King, having spoken thus, the Supreme Lord of all mystic power, the Personality of Godhead, displayed His universal form to Arjuna.

Bg 11.10-11 — Arjuna saw in that universal form unlimited mouths, unlimited eyes, unlimited wonderful visions. The form was decorated with many celestial ornaments and bore many divine upraised weapons. He wore celestial garlands and garments, and many divine scents were smeared over His body. All was wondrous, brilliant, unlimited, all-expanding.

Bg 11.12 — If hundreds of thousands of suns were to rise at once into the sky, their radiance might resemble the effulgence of the Supreme Person in that universal form.

Bg 11.13 — At that time Arjuna could see in the universal form of the Lord the unlimited expansions of the universe situated in one place although divided into many, many thousands.

Bg 11.14 — Then, bewildered and astonished, his hair standing on end, Arjuna bowed his head to offer obeisances and with folded hands began to pray to the Supreme Lord.

Bg 11.15 — Arjuna said: My dear Lord Kṛṣṇa, I see assembled in Your body all the demigods and various other living entities. I see Brahmā sitting on the lotus flower, as well as Lord Śiva and all the sages and divine serpents.

Bg 11.16 — O Lord of the universe, O universal form, I see in Your body many, many arms, bellies, mouths and eyes, expanded everywhere, without limit. I see in You no end, no middle and no beginning.

Bg 11.17 — Your form is difficult to see because of its glaring effulgence, spreading on all sides, like blazing fire or the immeasurable radiance of the sun. Yet I see this glowing form everywhere, adorned with various crowns, clubs and discs.

Bg 11.18 — You are the supreme primal objective. You are the ultimate resting place of all this universe. You are inexhaustible, and You are the oldest. You are the maintainer of the eternal religion, the Personality of Godhead. This is my opinion.

Bg 11.19 — You are without origin, middle or end. Your glory is unlimited. You have numberless arms, and the sun and moon are Your eyes. I see You with blazing fire coming forth from Your mouth, burning this entire universe by Your own radiance.

Bg 11.20 — Although You are one, You spread throughout the sky and the planets and all space between. O great one, seeing this wondrous and terrible form, all the planetary systems are perturbed.

Bg 11.21 — All the hosts of demigods are surrendering before You and entering into You. Some of them, very much afraid, are offering prayers with folded hands. Hosts of great sages and perfected beings, crying “All peace!” are praying to You by singing the Vedic hymns.

Bg 11.22 — All the various manifestations of Lord Śiva, the Ādityas, the Vasus, the Sādhyas, the Viśvedevas, the two Aśvīs, the Maruts, the forefathers, the Gandharvas, the Yakṣas, the Asuras and the perfected demigods are beholding You in wonder.

Bg 11.23 — O mighty-armed one, all the planets with their demigods are disturbed at seeing Your great form, with its many faces, eyes, arms, thighs, legs and bellies and Your many terrible teeth; and as they are disturbed, so am I.

Bg 11.24 — O all-pervading Viṣṇu, seeing You with Your many radiant colors touching the sky, Your gaping mouths, and Your great glowing eyes, my mind is perturbed by fear. I can no longer maintain my steadiness or equilibrium of mind.

Bg 11.25 — O Lord of lords, O refuge of the worlds, please be gracious to me. I cannot keep my balance seeing thus Your blazing deathlike faces and awful teeth. In all directions I am bewildered.

Bg 11.26-27 — All the sons of Dhṛtarāṣṭra, along with their allied kings, and Bhīṣma, Droṇa, Karṇa – and our chief soldiers also – are rushing into Your fearful mouths. And some I see trapped with heads smashed between Your teeth.

Bg 11.28 — As the many waves of the rivers flow into the ocean, so do all these great warriors enter blazing into Your mouths.

Bg 11.29 — I see all people rushing full speed into Your mouths, as moths dash to destruction in a blazing fire.

Bg 11.30 — O Viṣṇu, I see You devouring all people from all sides with Your flaming mouths. Covering all the universe with Your effulgence, You are manifest with terrible, scorching rays.

Bg 11.31 — O Lord of lords, so fierce of form, please tell me who You are. I offer my obeisances unto You; please be gracious to me. You are the primal Lord. I want to know about You, for I do not know what Your mission is.

Bg 11.32 — The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Time I am, the great destroyer of the worlds, and I have come here to destroy all people. With the exception of you [the Pāṇḍavas], all the soldiers here on both sides will be slain.

Bg 11.33 — Therefore get up. Prepare to fight and win glory. Conquer your enemies and enjoy a flourishing kingdom. They are already put to death by My arrangement, and you, O Savyasācī, can be but an instrument in the fight.

Bg 11.34 — Droṇa, Bhīṣma, Jayadratha, Karṇa and the other great warriors have already been destroyed by Me. Therefore, kill them and do not be disturbed. Simply fight, and you will vanquish your enemies in battle.

Bg 11.35 — Sañjaya said to Dhṛtarāṣṭra: O King, after hearing these words from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the trembling Arjuna offered obeisances with folded hands again and again. He fearfully spoke to Lord Kṛṣṇa in a faltering voice, as follows.

Bg 11.36 — Arjuna said: O master of the senses, the world becomes joyful upon hearing Your name, and thus everyone becomes attached to You. Although the perfected beings offer You their respectful homage, the demons are afraid, and they flee here and there. All this is rightly done.

Bg 11.37 — O great one, greater even than Brahmā, You are the original creator. Why then should they not offer their respectful obeisances unto You? O limitless one, God of gods, refuge of the universe! You are the invincible source, the cause of all causes, transcendental to this material manifestation.

Bg 11.38 — You are the original Personality of Godhead, the oldest, the ultimate sanctuary of this manifested cosmic world. You are the knower of everything, and You are all that is knowable. You are the supreme refuge, above the material modes. O limitless form! This whole cosmic manifestation is pervaded by You!

Bg 11.39 — You are air, and You are the supreme controller! You are fire, You are water, and You are the moon! You are Brahmā, the first living creature, and You are the great-grandfather. I therefore offer my respectful obeisances unto You a thousand times, and again and yet again!

Bg 11.40 — Obeisances to You from the front, from behind and from all sides! O unbounded power, You are the master of limitless might! You are all-pervading, and thus You are everything!

Bg 11.41-42 — Thinking of You as my friend, I have rashly addressed You “O Kṛṣṇa,” “O Yādava,” “O my friend,” not knowing Your glories. Please forgive whatever I may have done in madness or in love. I have dishonored You many times, jesting as we relaxed, lay on the same bed, or sat or ate together, sometimes alone and sometimes in front of many friends. O infallible one, please excuse me for all those offenses.

Bg 11.43 — You are the father of this complete cosmic manifestation, of the moving and the nonmoving. You are its worshipable chief, the supreme spiritual master. No one is greater than You, nor can anyone be one with You. How then could there be anyone greater than You within the three worlds, O Lord of immeasurable power?

Bg 11.44 — You are the Supreme Lord, to be worshiped by every living being. Thus I fall down to offer You my respectful obeisances and ask Your mercy. As a father tolerates the impudence of his son, a friend the impertinence of a friend, or a husband the familiarity of his wife, please tolerate the wrongs I may have done You.

Bg 11.45 — After seeing this universal form, which I have never seen before, I am gladdened, but at the same time my mind is disturbed with fear. Therefore please bestow Your grace upon me and reveal again Your form as the Personality of Godhead, O Lord of lords, O abode of the universe.

Bg 11.46 — O universal form, O thousand-armed Lord, I wish to see You in Your four-armed form, with helmeted head and with club, wheel, conch and lotus flower in Your hands. I long to see You in that form.

Bg 11.47 — The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Arjuna, happily have I shown you, by My internal potency, this supreme universal form within the material world. No one before you has ever seen this primal form, unlimited and full of glaring effulgence.

Bg 11.48 — O best of the Kuru warriors, no one before you has ever seen this universal form of Mine, for neither by studying the Vedas, nor by performing sacrifices, nor by charity, nor by pious activities, nor by severe penances can I be seen in this form in the material world.

Bg 11.49 — You have been perturbed and bewildered by seeing this horrible feature of Mine. Now let it be finished. My devotee, be free again from all disturbances. With a peaceful mind you can now see the form you desire.

Bg 11.50 — Sañjaya said to Dhṛtarāṣṭra: The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, having spoken thus to Arjuna, displayed His real four-armed form and at last showed His two-armed form, thus encouraging the fearful Arjuna.

Bg 11.51 — When Arjuna thus saw Kṛṣṇa in His original form, he said: O Janārdana, seeing this humanlike form, so very beautiful, I am now composed in mind, and I am restored to my original nature.

Bg 11.52 — The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Arjuna, this form of Mine you are now seeing is very difficult to behold. Even the demigods are ever seeking the opportunity to see this form, which is so dear.

Bg 11.53 — The form you are seeing with your transcendental eyes cannot be understood simply by studying the Vedas, nor by undergoing serious penances, nor by charity, nor by worship. It is not by these means that one can see Me as I am.

Bg 11.54 — My dear Arjuna, only by undivided devotional service can I be understood as I am, standing before you, and can thus be seen directly. Only in this way can you enter into the mysteries of My understanding.

Bg 11.55 — My dear Arjuna, he who engages in My pure devotional service, free from the contaminations of fruitive activities and mental speculation, he who works for Me, who makes Me the supreme goal of his life, and who is friendly to every living being – he certainly comes to Me.
 
zhoro
#149 Posted : 2/19/2016 3:06:29 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 211
Joined: 30-May-2013
Last visit: 12-Dec-2023
Worthwhile guide.
Here it is - right now. Start thinking about it and you miss it. ~ Huang-po
 
Rising Spirit
#150 Posted : 2/21/2016 1:14:28 PM

'Tis A Looooooong Wind Blowing Cosmic Dust


Posts: 833
Joined: 15-Feb-2010
Last visit: 12-Aug-2023
Location: Vermont
Great to see this beautiful thread still thriving, still topical and fully abloom. Thumbs up
There is no self to which I cling, for I am one with everything.
 
nen888
#151 Posted : 2/26/2016 5:43:56 AM
member for the trees

Acacia expert | Skills: Acacia, Botany, Tryptamines, CounsellingExtraordinary knowledge | Skills: Acacia, Botany, Tryptamines, CounsellingSenior Member | Skills: Acacia, Botany, Tryptamines, Counselling

Posts: 4003
Joined: 28-Jun-2011
Last visit: 05-Feb-2024
forever blooming Rising Spirit...nice to hear from you...
.
yes, Tattvamasi, the gita 'speaks for itself'...great to read again..my past year has been a bit of a personal bhagavad gita...into dharma is the liberation..
.
..and thank you so much for that zhoro (and your contributions to the subject) ....blessings brother

.

well...there's a few threads discussing whether 'all is one' or how can the self be reborn ? Smile (it's the individual jiva)

...so lets get into some total Advaita Vedanta, care of Sri Adi Shankaracharya..

from Upadesa Sahasri ('A Thousand Teachings')
Part - I [Prose]
Ch.1 - 'A method of enlightening the disciple'

[3]

'The Sruti also says, “A Brahmana after examining those worlds which are the result of Vedic actions should be indifferent to them seeing that nothing eternal can be achieved by means of those actions. Then, with fuel in his hands he should approach a teacher versed in the Vedas and established in Brahman in order to know the Eternal. The learned teacher should correctly explain to that disciple who has self-control and a tranquil mind and has approached him in the prescribed manner, the knowledge of Brahman revealing the imperishable and the eternal Being”. For only when knowledge is firmly grasped, it conduces to one’s own good and is capable of transmission.

This transmission of knowledge is helpful to people, like a boat to one who wants to cross a river. The scriptures too say, “Although one may give to the teacher this world surrounded by oceans and full of riches, this knowledge is even greater than that”. Otherwise there would be no attainment of knowledge. For the Srutis say, “A man having a teacher can know Brahman”, “Knowledge received from a teacher alone (becomes perfect)”, “The teacher is the pilot”, “Right Knowledge is called in this world a raft”, etc. The Smriti also says, “Knowledge will be imparted to you” etc.'

[5]

'He should also thoroughly impress upon the disciple qualities like humility, which are the means to knowledge.'

[6]

'The teacher is one who is endowed with the power of furnishing arguments pro and con, of understanding questions and remembering them, who possesses tranquillity, self-control, compassion and a desire to help others, who is versed in the scriptures and unattached to enjoyments both seen and unseen, who has renounced the means to all kinds of actions, who is a knower of Brahman and is established in it, who is never a transgressor of the rules of conduct and who is devoid of shortcomings such as ostentation, pride, deceit, cunning, jugglery, jealousy, falsehood, egotism and attachment. He has the sole aim of helping others and a desire to impart the knowledge of Brahman only.
He should first of all teach the Sruti texts establishing the oneness of the self with Brahman such as, “My child, in the beginning it (the universe) was Existence only, one alone without a second”, “Where one sees nothing else” “All this is but the Self”, “In the beginning all this was but the one Self” and “All this is verily Brahman”. '

[7-8]

'After teaching these he should teach the definition of Brahman through such Sruti texts as
“The self, devoid of sins”, “The Brahman that is immediate and direct”, “That which is beyond hunger and thirst”,
“Not-this, not-this”, “Neither gross nor subtle”, “This Self is not-this”, “It is the Seer Itself unseen”, “Knowledge-Bliss”, “Existence-Knowledge-Infinite”, “Imperceptible, bodiless”, “That great unborn Self”,
“Without the vital force and the mind”, “Unborn, comprising the interiorn and exterior”, “Consisting of knowledge only”, “Without interior or exterior”,
“It is verily beyond what is known as also what is unknown” and “Called Akasa (the self-effulgent One)”;

and also through such Smriti texts as the following: “It is neither born nor dies”, “It is not affected by anybody’s sins”, “Just as air is always in the ether”, “The individual Self should be regarded as the universal one”,
“It is called neither existent nor non-existent”, “As the Self is beginningless and devoid of qualities”,
“The same in all beings” and “The Supreme Being is different” – all these support the definition given by the Srutis and prove that the innermost Self is beyond transmigratory existence and that it is not different from Brahman, the all-comprehensive principle.

[9]

'The disciple who has thus learnt the definition of the inner Self from the Srutis and the Smritis and is eager to cross the ocean of transmigratory existence is asked, “Who are you, my child ?”. '

.
 
Koornut
#152 Posted : 4/28/2017 12:40:35 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 990
Joined: 13-Nov-2014
Last visit: 05-Dec-2020
Has anybody prepared Amrita?
I can only find powdered harataki and guduchi Sad
Also is allium sativum a suitable garlic?

I'd like to start experimenting with it during meditation.
My guess would be fresh plant material are more traditional than powders.
Any wisdoms would be greatly appreciated Smile
Inconsistency is in my nature.
The simple PHYLLODE tek

I'm just waiting for these bloody plants to grow
 
Swayambhu
#153 Posted : 4/30/2017 4:23:35 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 214
Joined: 30-Aug-2014
Last visit: 28-Jul-2023
Location: Midlands UK
8 pages of hot air.

Tantra for the win.

Alakh!

(Coming to you courtesy of Swayambhunath, your local voice of sectarianism)






 
entheogenic-gnosis
#154 Posted : 5/1/2017 3:38:44 PM
DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 2889
Joined: 31-Oct-2014
Last visit: 03-Nov-2018
Amrit paane se pahle Vish peena padta hai.

...before one can get Amrit, one must drink poison.

Quote:
Amrit (Sanskrit, IAST: amṛta) or Amata (Pali) is a word that literally means "immortality" and is often referred to in texts as nectar. Amṛta is etymologically related to the Greek ambrosia[1] and carries the same meaning.[2] The word's earliest occurrence is in the Rigveda, where it is one of several synonyms for soma, the drink which confers immortality upon the gods. -Wikipedia


Symbology of Lord Shiva:
Quote:


Moon
Shiva is also called Soma or Somasundara.
Soma means inebriation or intoxication.
Shiva uses the moon as a decoration because he is a great yogi who is intoxicated all the time, but he sits in great alertness.
To enjoy the intoxication, you must be alert.


Snake
A snake is also very sensitive to certain energies.
It is not just symbolic.
Among seven fundamental chakras, the vishuddhi chakra is located in the pit of throat.
The word vishuddhi literally means “filter.”
If your vishuddhi becomes powerful, you have the ability to filter everything that enters you.
Shiva’s center is supposed to be vishuddhi, and he is also known as Vishakantha or Neelakantha because he filters all the poison.

Third Eye
Shiva has always been referred to as Triambaka because he has a third eye.
It simply means another dimension of perception has opened up.
If your perception has to evolve and enhance itself, the most important thing is that your energy has to evolve and enhance itself.
The whole process of yoga is to evolve and refine your energies in such a way that your perception is enhanced and the third eye opens.
The third eye means your perception has gone beyond the dualities of life.
Nandi

Nandi is a symbolism of eternal waiting.
One who knows how to simply sit and wait is naturally meditative.
Nandi is not expecting Shiva to come out tomorrow.
He is not anticipating or expecting anything.
This quality is the essence of receptivity.
Before you go into a temple, you must have the quality of Nandi – to simply sit.
Trishul


https://shaktipotep.com/...-and-symbolism-of-shiva/





Quote:
Halāhala (Sanskrit हलाहल) or kālakūṭa (Sanskrit कालकूटं, literally: 'black mass' or 'time puzzle' [1]) is the name of a poison (as per Hindu mythology) created from the sea when Devas (Gods) and Asuras (Demons) churned it (see Samudra manthan) in order to obtain Amrita, the nectar of immortality.

Fourteen different rathnas (gems) were recovered in this exercise, mostly retained by the Gods after the Demons tried to cheat them. But before Amrita could be recovered, Halāhala ("the most vicious and venomous poison of universe" ) was produced, which started killing both sides. As no one could bear the poisonous fumes emitted by the poison, both Devas and Asuras began to collapse due to asphyxiation. They ran for help to Brahma, who directed them to Vishnu who advised them only Shiva could help them. So both parties went to Kailasha and prayed to Lord Shiva for help. Shiva chose to consume the poison and thus drank it. His wife Parvati, alarmed, stopped it in his throat with her hands, thus earning him the name Viṣakaṇṭha (the one who held poison in his throat). He was later saved by the mahavidya (tara) who is also a form of parvati. The poison made his throat turn blue; hence, he is also known as Nīlakaṇṭha[2] (the one with a blue throat). -Wikipedia




Miscellaneous nonsense:

Quote:
Other fungal entheogens grow at the lower levels. They come in cattle dung, are easily identified and gathered, and are effective. But they fail to conform to Brahmin practices: they are known to tribals and sudras [untouchables]. Soma on the other hand exacts self-discipline of the priests, a long initiation and training: it is, for proper exploitation, an affair of a priestly elite. But the possible role of Stropharia cubensis growing in the dung of cattle in the lives of the lower orders remains to this day wholly unexplored. Is S. cubensis responsible for the elevation of the cow to a sacred status? And for the inclusion of the urine and dung of cows in the pañcagavya? -G. Wasson ; "Persephone's Quest"


Wasson basically explains that while the priestly elite may not have been aware of psilocybin fungi, that the sadhus likely would have been, I could see the Aghori, and other nomadic followers of Shiva recognizing these fungi.



Amrit paane se pahle Vish peena padta hai.

I have my own interpretation of this saying, generally relating to the essential need for entheogens in the exploration of spirituality.



Quote:
If you want to understand the atom, you must smash it. You know, sitting around looking at it, will never yield its secrets. You have to smash that sucker to bits and then collect the pieces and examine how it all came apart. In the same way we must smash ordinary consciousness. We must Get smashed and then look at the pieces flying in all directions. -terence McKenna


-eg

 
Swayambhu
#155 Posted : 5/1/2017 4:43:28 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 214
Joined: 30-Aug-2014
Last visit: 28-Jul-2023
Location: Midlands UK
I've never seen ethnographic nor circumstantial evidence of psilocybin containing fungus being used in India, despite having lived there for a number years and having associated quite closely with both "Aghoris" and tribal people. Not to say it doesn't happen, of course.

Anyone pointed out yet that Sanskrit "haramala" (Peganum Harmala) means "Shiva Beads"?? Interoasting!
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#156 Posted : 5/3/2017 2:56:30 PM
DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 2889
Joined: 31-Oct-2014
Last visit: 03-Nov-2018
Swayambhu wrote:
I've never seen ethnographic nor circumstantial evidence of psilocybin containing fungus being used in India, despite having lived there for a number years and having associated quite closely with both "Aghoris" and tribal people. Not to say it doesn't happen, of course.

Anyone pointed out yet that Sanskrit "haramala" (Peganum Harmala) means "Shiva Beads"?? Interoasting!


Quote:
Other fungal entheogens grow at the lower levels. They come in cattle dung, are easily identified and gathered, and are effective. But they fail to conform to Brahmin practices: they are known to tribals and sudras [untouchables]. Soma on the other hand exacts self-discipline of the priests, a long initiation and training: it is, for proper exploitation, an affair of a priestly elite. But the possible role of Stropharia cubensis growing in the dung of cattle in the lives of the lower orders remains to this day wholly unexplored. Is S. cubensis responsible for the elevation of the cow to a sacred status? And for the inclusion of the urine and dung of cows in the pañcagavya? -G. Wasson ; "Persephone's Quest"


I've found a good deal of evidence for use of the mushroom in the ancient world, most of which I will have to dig up and post later, a good deal connects to India.

All of these holy men will ask you to be their disciple, will make you clean the ashram, and work quite hard for them before they will reveal the secret unto you, I feel the mushroom is this secret.

Soma likely represents any entheogen, whether it be Mucuna Pruriens, cannabis, peganum harmala, alcohol, or the stropharia cubensis mushroom, how ever I'm convinced these mushrooms are their most prized and well kept secret.



Misc. Evidence:

Quote:
For over a hundred years now, scientists have been discussing what plant was used to prepare Soma (Haoma), a sacred drink of the ancient Indians and Iranians, which "inspired poets and seers, made warriors fearless." The hypotheses were plenty: from ephedra, cannabis, and opium poppy to blue water lily (Nymphaea caerulea) and fly agaric (Amanita muscaria). The answer was found in a grave of a noble woman buried in an elite burial ground of the Xiongnu, the famous nomads of Central Asia

Final phase of the restoration of the embroidered carpet. Video by Sergey Zelensky
Importantly, none of the researchers denies the fact that the ancient Indians and Iranians consumed a drink with a psychoactive substance as a sacrament. However, the precise identity of the substance and its plant source, as well as its influence on human consciousness, are still being debated.
The translator and greatest authority on the Rigveda Tatyana Ya. Elizarenkova wrote: “Judging by the Rigveda hymns, Soma was not only stimulating but also a hallucinogenic drink. It is difficult to be more specific not only because none of the plants suggested as soma satisfies all the parameters and only partially answers the description of soma given in the hymns but mainly because the language and style of the Rigveda, an archaic religious tome with the typical features of ‘Indo-European poetic speech’, pose a formidable obstacle to soma identification.” Knowing perfectly well that all the possibilities of the written source had been exhausted, Elizarenkova believed that the answer could come from archaeologists, from “their findings in North-Western India, Afghanistan, and Pakistan (and not in remote Central Asia).”
Remarkably, her opinion, expressed 25 years ago, was confirmed by new findings made in Mongolia. No one could have suspected that a grave of a noble woman buried in an elite burial ground of the Xiongnu, the famous nomads of Central Asia, would answer the question asked long ago.
It happened in 2009. A team from the Institute of Archaeology and Ethnography SB RAS, which was led by Natalia Polosmak, was performing archaeological excavations in the Noin-Ula Mountains, Northern Mongolia. In tumulus 31, at a depth of 13 meters, the archaeologists discovered a wooden burial chamber. On the floor, which was covered with a thick layer of blue clay, around an old tomb ruined by ancient robbers, there were visible traces of a woollen fabric; this was all that was left of an embroidered strip, which was of great historical value even in this fragmentary state. Textiles are virtually never preserved in ancient graves, and such findings are exceptionally rare. The remains of the textile were retrieved from the grave and delivered to the Institute of Archaeology and Ethnography SB RAS. The second life of this remarkable artefact began thanks to Russian restorers.
The craftsmanship and the story unfolding on the threadbare fabric are truly amazing. Embroidered in woollen thread on the thin cloth is a procession of Zoroastrian warriors marching towards an altar; one of them, standing at the altar, is holding a mushroom in his hands.
A distinguishing feature of this embroidery is that the craftsmen did their best to depict the faces, costume, arms, plants, and insects, trying to copy everything from life. According to the mycologist I.A. Gorbunova (Candidate of Biology, senior researcher with the Inferior Plant Laboratory, Central Siberian Botanical Garden, SB RAS), the mushroom depicted on the carpet belongs to the Strophariaceae family.
https://www.anoniem.org/...oma-we-became-immortal-/

Quote:
It [the textile] was made someplace in Syria or Palestine, embroidered, probably, in north-western India and found in Mongolia

http://scfh.ru/en/papers...oma-we-became-immortal-/


Picture attached.

(Also, look into "hunnic cauldrons" which seem to obvious my depict the mushroom)



I'm too tired to make my entire case here...

I feel the mushroom is known to these sadhus, nomadic followers of shiva, and other lower caste holy men, and ultimately was a huge influence on the creation of Hinduism.

I can see it in their art work, I can see it in their spirituality, the mushrooms influence is obvious to me. These bos indicus cattle (which the mushroom is a product of their dung) are considered sacred, to think that these people would not have noticed and used a dinner plate sized mushroom growing from their sacred cattle's dung seems unreasonable.

About the aghori:

The aghori are essentially hindu versions of GG Allin...

Aghoris have a philosophy that all matter is of God's creation, whether it is candy or cow-dung, and that one can not become defiled or impure. "aghora" means "fearless", and these aghori sadhus will preform certain acts to demonstrate that one not be defiled as well as displaying their lack of fear. They cover themselves with ashes of the dead, the only eat from a scull, they will eat dead bodies, fecal matter, fecal matter, rotted meat, etc...

The concept "untouchable" means nothing to an aghori.

So it seems likely that eating the mushroom, which is seen as "untouchable", would be known to the aghori, who are nomadic followers of shiva, who favor intoxication, and who reject notions of "pure" and "impure".

Quote:
Other fungal entheogens grow at the lower levels. They come in cattle dung, are easily identified and gathered, and are effective. But they fail to conform to Brahmin practices: they are known to tribals and sudras [untouchables]. Soma on the other hand exacts self-discipline of the priests, a long initiation and training: it is, for proper exploitation, an affair of a priestly elite. But the possible role of Stropharia cubensis growing in the dung of cattle in the lives of the lower orders remains to this day wholly unexplored. Is S. cubensis responsible for the elevation of the cow to a sacred status? And for the inclusion of the urine and dung of cows in the pañcagavya? -G. Wasson ; "Persephone's Quest"


So the Brahmins would not know much of the mushroom as they see it as "untouchable", karmically polluting, however the "dalit" the lowest caste, the "untouchable people", according to wasson, were quite familiar with these fungi.



Quote:
There are many names for Shiva. One name that is very commonly used is Soma or Somasundara. Soma could literally mean the moon, but soma essentially means inebriation or intoxication. Shiva uses the moon as a decoration because he is a great yogi who is intoxicated all the time, but he sits in great alertness.
http://isha.sadhguru.org/atoz/shiva/




This post turned into a mess, too many distractions while writing it, it seems chopped up and disorganized...

Any way, CNN has a show called "believer" where the aghori are explored, the host ended up running for his life, as the aghori sadhu began to defecate in his hand, eat it, and throw it at the CNN host... it was an interesting look at aghora.

This post was terrible, I make a better case when I have time.

-eg
entheogenic-gnosis attached the following image(s):
293886ca98bb3ec4812de5883c107fbc.jpg (206kb) downloaded 101 time(s).
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#157 Posted : 5/3/2017 3:02:07 PM
DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 2889
Joined: 31-Oct-2014
Last visit: 03-Nov-2018
Amrit paane se pahle Vish peena padta hai.

...before one can get Amrit, one must drink poison.


-eg
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#158 Posted : 5/3/2017 3:22:06 PM
DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 2889
Joined: 31-Oct-2014
Last visit: 03-Nov-2018
Miscellaneous Hindu representations of the mushroom.

Some of these you may have to look for it, but it's there.

This is circumstantial evidence, no?

-eg
entheogenic-gnosis attached the following image(s):
Lakshmi-Halo.jpg (59kb) downloaded 98 time(s).
Shiva_with_mushrooms.jpg (37kb) downloaded 96 time(s).
Entheogen_culture_005.jpg (80kb) downloaded 97 time(s).
John Allen's photo of Hindu goddesses.png (707kb) downloaded 98 time(s).
soma stones.jpg (30kb) downloaded 97 time(s).
Soma evidence 3.jpg (12kb) downloaded 96 time(s).
2006AU5756.jpg (89kb) downloaded 96 time(s).
 
Koornut
#159 Posted : 5/3/2017 9:28:12 PM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 990
Joined: 13-Nov-2014
Last visit: 05-Dec-2020
http://www.ayurvedacolle...rticles/students/Guduchi
This is where I read about it EG.
Inconsistency is in my nature.
The simple PHYLLODE tek

I'm just waiting for these bloody plants to grow
 
Swayambhu
#160 Posted : 5/4/2017 12:28:46 AM

DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 214
Joined: 30-Aug-2014
Last visit: 28-Jul-2023
Location: Midlands UK
I see flowers and parasols in those pictures.

As I mentioned before, I have a certain amount of first hand experience with Aghor, and with Indian tribal and similar outcaste religious traditions. You would need decades to even scrape the surface of these numerous and highly diverse traditions, which may, somewhere, involve mushrooms. However the writers you quote seem pretty far off the mark.
 
«PREV678910NEXT
 
Users browsing this forum
Guest (2)

DMT-Nexus theme created by The Traveler
This page was generated in 0.149 seconds.