I've found that the teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi capture the quintessence of Advaita Vedanta, beautifully reviving the ancient teachings for a modern age. Ramana actually had very little education in Advaita yet after his Self-realization at the age of 16 spoke in perfect alignment with the Sages that were alive centuries before, he mainly advocated the paths of Self-inquiry and Satsang.

Here's a Sri Ramana Maharishi thread i started a while back.

I love how the highest truth of Advaita (Ajata) parallels the highest truth of science...

There is neither creation nor destruction,
neither destiny nor free will,
neither path nor achievement

or

Energy cannot be created or destroyed

औं

^..thank you Chronic for the Ramana link, the post, and good to hear from you..

you wrote:
..yes, one of the strong points of Advaita Vedanta is that it uses intellect and observation..

..the core thing i think in progressing with Advaita (which can be missing from 'neo-advaita') is to find techniques which work for the individual..this is why i think (as well as intellect) devotion, bhakti, karma yoga as well as physical yoga, mantra, meditation, and ecstatic techniques like dance, all strengthen the true integration of this path, with different modes suiting different individuals..


it's said in the Advaita Bodha Deepika (one of Ramana's favourite works) :

"Though Vedanta is read and well understood, if dispassion is not practised, the desire for pleasures will not fade away. There is no dislike for pleasing things and the desire for them cannot leave the person. Because desire is not checked, love, anger, etc., the ego or the ‘false-I’ in the obnoxious body, the sense of possession represented by ‘I’ or ‘mine’ of things agreeable to the body, the pairs of opposites like pleasure and pain, and false values, will not disappear. However well read one may be, unless the teachings are put into practice, one is not really learned. Only like a parrot the man will be repeating that Brahman alone is real and all else is false."
(ch.III)

..ultimately i think opening the heart is one of the deepest of keys in all this..

of the parallels with science, in Vedanta we have the Bindu..the point (which is of course infinitely small..a point in maths has no size) from which the universe emerges..this could be likened as well to the 'zero-point energy' or vacuum energy..
.



"..devoid of senses [It] shines through the functions of the senses...

The Self, smaller than the small, greater than the great, is hidden in the hearts of creatures."

(Svetasvatara Upanishad)

ॐ
.

Ah, The Lamp of Non-dual Knowledge is quite the book, thanks for reminding me of it. Old school hardcore Advaita, 'shun the objects of the senses as if they are poison' style, and laying down a lot of the prerequisites for awakening.

I agree that understanding must be heartfelt and not merely intellectual, just as reading and learning words doesn't amount to knowledge. I like the analogy of food and digestion, as reading a recipe, preparing the meal, smelling the food... doesn't amount to eating, digesting and assimilating the food so that its essence becomes a part of you.

I've attached links to The Lamp of Non-dual Knowledge (Advaita Bodha Deepika) & All is One (Elam Ondre) another sweet little book recommended by Ramana.

..thank you again Chronic and Rising Spirit..and all contributors..

i've been not in a language based mode so much of late, with regards to this subject..

which brings me back to a, if not the, core basis of Advaita Vedanta..and one emphasised by Ramana, and of course the old sages long before him..self enquiry - Vichara

the words, the intellect, the premise and any description stem from this method of 'observation'...free from preconception..and the teachings of method and conduct aim to increase the clarity of such observation..which can stem from and lead to the opening of the heart..
.

..Adi Shankaracharya wrote, in Aparokshanubhuti:

- "The Atman that is absolute existence and knowledge cannot be realized without constant practice. So one seeking after knowledge should long meditate upon Brahman for the attainment of the desired goal.
The steps, in order, are described as follows: the control of the senses, the control of the mind, renunciation, silence, space, time, posture, the restraining root (Mulabandha), the equipoise of the body, the firmness of vision, the control of the vital forces, the withdrawal of the mind, concentration, self-contemplation and complete absorption."
(101-103)

"Thus has been described Raja-Yoga consisting of these steps (mentioned above). With this is to be combined Hatha-Yoga for (the benefit of) those whose worldly desires are partially attenuated." "For those whose mind is completely purified this (Raja-Yoga) alone is productive of perfection. Purity of the mind, again, is speedily accessible to those who are devoted to the teacher and the Deity."
(143-144)

..it can be seen that Shankara, in the true Advaita Vedanta tradition, emphasised the need for both technique and practice (unlike much 'neo-advaita', which takes a 'there is nothing to do'/'you are already perfect' kind of approach)
..the wisest of old sages say it takes work to reach the full realisation of the non-dual..
the more work, the more easily the 'rewards' of the objective will flow..
and the constant cycling of suffering will lessen it's distractive hold..
.



(Sri Adi Shankaracharya - in his commentary on the Chandogya Upanishad)

ॐ.

Thankyou for the words nen888, I also have periods where words just don't come for this... I agree that some effort is necessary, while it's true that ultimately there is nothing to do and nowhere to go in order to be as we always are, that 'distractive hold' of the mind is so habitual it can only be seen through with earnest effort. Whether that be through raja-yoga, karma-yoga, jnana-yoga or good ol bhakti ♥

These are some lovely verses that I came across in the mighty Ribhu Gita recently, an Advaita text of over 2000 verses said to be over 7000 years old...

There is nothing apart from that undivided Supreme Brahman.
All is that undivided Supreme Brahman.
That undivided Supreme Brahman is, indeed, myself.
I am that undivided Supreme Brahman.
Being thus of the firm conviction (bhava) regarding the undivided Supreme Brahman,
And after the sense of there being even an atom apart from it is erased,
And after casting aside even that supreme, undivided conviction
Be established as the nature of Bliss.

Casting aside even that 'nature of Bliss,'
Firmly abide as the One Existence.
Casting aside even that 'One Existence' - with nothing apart -
Remain attributeless.
Casting out even 'the attributeless,'
Remain as the nature beyond mind and speech.
Casting aside even that, abide just as Knowledge -
And leaving off even that, abide as the Self.

Leaving that also aside,
Abide as Brahman alone.
Leaving aside all that has been said here,
Abide as the true Void.
Then without any conditionings such as the mind,
Remain as the indescribable Void.
Leaving aside even this 'Void'
Whatever nature remains, exist as that nature.

After losing even the nature of remaining so,
You will be yourself -
The state which can not described by words
Or thought of by the mind in the least.
Hence, after reaching That, the natural state,
you will be by yourself, all alone, as yourself
Who can describe or think of that state
Which is without the least doubt or delusion?

Casting aside all as explained thus above,
Remain in your own nature as the pure Supreme Existence.
Inquire into this daily and meditate
That it is the undivided 'I' that is relinquishing all this.
The constant inquiry and meditation
That I, indeed, am the infinite, undivided Supreme,
Is the means for achieving nirvikapala (the undifferentiated state) -
The mind-transcending serenity of Supreme Consciousness

ॐ

om swarupa _/\_

..i’m really happy this thread ran…and thank you everyone who chipped in..

at core, Vedanta is a system of investigation, to arrive at the nature of reality…
it can be completely rational/observational, as well as completely faith based/ectstatic..or in between..Vedanta (meaning stemming from the teachings of the Vedas) is inherently accepting of pluralism..

i do notice the impact of Ramana on a few nexians here…bless him..
he does distill things very finely to an essence..
it’s true that the core question of Advaita Vedanta is, as Ramana so often pointed out,
‘Who am I?’, which can particularly be applied by a rational mind in the determination of the existence of consciousness..
consciousness established, the (poetic) approach of ’Neti-Neti’ (‘not this, not this’) can be applied to It..in the phase transition from form and mind (solid) to the non-temporal ‘ether’ or continuum of experience..
and the initial question is answered as ‘That’.

..it’s staying aware of ‘that’ where the ongoing work is, whichever path or route is chosen..
.


...

"This does not kill nor is it killed. This Âtman, subtler than the subtlest, and greater than the greatest, resides within the cave (the Buddhi) of the Jîvas. He whose heart is purified and who is free from Sankalpa and Vikalpa (doubt and mental phenomena), knows It and Its glory and is free from sorrows and troubles.

Know this Âtman and Buddhi as the charioteer, this body as the chariot, and the mind as the reins. The senses and their organs are the horses and the objects of enjoyments are their aims. The sages declare that the Âtman united with mind and organs of senses enjoys the objects. He who is non- discriminating, unmindful, and always impure, does not realise his Âtman; rather he is bound in this world. He who is discriminating, mindful, and always pure reaches the Goal, realises the Highest Self; and he is not fallen again from That.

That man becomes able to cross the Ocean of Samsâra and gets My Highest Abode, of the nature of everlasting Existence, Intelligence and Bliss, whose charioteer is Discrimination, and who keeps his senses under control by keeping tight the reins of his mind. Thus one should always meditate intensely on Me to realise the nature of Self by S'ravanam (hearing), Mananam thinking and realising one's own self by one's Self (pure heart)."

- Srimad Devi Purana
.
ॐ

From Chapter 11 of the Gita, and my favorite chapter id have to say. Speaks for itself:

Chapter Eleven: The Universal Form
Bg 11.1 — Arjuna said: By my hearing the instructions You have kindly given me about these most confidential spiritual subjects, my illusion has now been dispelled.

Bg 11.2 — O lotus-eyed one, I have heard from You in detail about the appearance and disappearance of every living entity and have realized Your inexhaustible glories.

Bg 11.3 — O greatest of all personalities, O supreme form, though I see You here before me in Your actual position, as You have described Yourself, I wish to see how You have entered into this cosmic manifestation. I want to see that form of Yours.

Bg 11.4 — If You think that I am able to behold Your cosmic form, O my Lord, O master of all mystic power, then kindly show me that unlimited universal Self.

Bg 11.5 — The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Arjuna, O son of Pṛthā, see now My opulences, hundreds of thousands of varied divine and multicolored forms.

Bg 11.6 — O best of the Bhāratas, see here the different manifestations of Ādityas, Vasus, Rudras, Aśvinī-kumāras and all the other demigods. Behold the many wonderful things which no one has ever seen or heard of before.

Bg 11.7 — O Arjuna, whatever you wish to see, behold at once in this body of Mine! This universal form can show you whatever you now desire to see and whatever you may want to see in the future. Everything – moving and nonmoving – is here completely, in one place.

Bg 11.8 — But you cannot see Me with your present eyes. Therefore I give you divine eyes. Behold My mystic opulence!

Bg 11.9 — Sañjaya said: O King, having spoken thus, the Supreme Lord of all mystic power, the Personality of Godhead, displayed His universal form to Arjuna.

Bg 11.10-11 — Arjuna saw in that universal form unlimited mouths, unlimited eyes, unlimited wonderful visions. The form was decorated with many celestial ornaments and bore many divine upraised weapons. He wore celestial garlands and garments, and many divine scents were smeared over His body. All was wondrous, brilliant, unlimited, all-expanding.

Bg 11.12 — If hundreds of thousands of suns were to rise at once into the sky, their radiance might resemble the effulgence of the Supreme Person in that universal form.

Bg 11.13 — At that time Arjuna could see in the universal form of the Lord the unlimited expansions of the universe situated in one place although divided into many, many thousands.

Bg 11.14 — Then, bewildered and astonished, his hair standing on end, Arjuna bowed his head to offer obeisances and with folded hands began to pray to the Supreme Lord.

Bg 11.15 — Arjuna said: My dear Lord Kṛṣṇa, I see assembled in Your body all the demigods and various other living entities. I see Brahmā sitting on the lotus flower, as well as Lord Śiva and all the sages and divine serpents.

Bg 11.16 — O Lord of the universe, O universal form, I see in Your body many, many arms, bellies, mouths and eyes, expanded everywhere, without limit. I see in You no end, no middle and no beginning.

Bg 11.17 — Your form is difficult to see because of its glaring effulgence, spreading on all sides, like blazing fire or the immeasurable radiance of the sun. Yet I see this glowing form everywhere, adorned with various crowns, clubs and discs.

Bg 11.18 — You are the supreme primal objective. You are the ultimate resting place of all this universe. You are inexhaustible, and You are the oldest. You are the maintainer of the eternal religion, the Personality of Godhead. This is my opinion.

Bg 11.19 — You are without origin, middle or end. Your glory is unlimited. You have numberless arms, and the sun and moon are Your eyes. I see You with blazing fire coming forth from Your mouth, burning this entire universe by Your own radiance.

Bg 11.20 — Although You are one, You spread throughout the sky and the planets and all space between. O great one, seeing this wondrous and terrible form, all the planetary systems are perturbed.

Bg 11.21 — All the hosts of demigods are surrendering before You and entering into You. Some of them, very much afraid, are offering prayers with folded hands. Hosts of great sages and perfected beings, crying “All peace!” are praying to You by singing the Vedic hymns.

Bg 11.22 — All the various manifestations of Lord Śiva, the Ādityas, the Vasus, the Sādhyas, the Viśvedevas, the two Aśvīs, the Maruts, the forefathers, the Gandharvas, the Yakṣas, the Asuras and the perfected demigods are beholding You in wonder.

Bg 11.23 — O mighty-armed one, all the planets with their demigods are disturbed at seeing Your great form, with its many faces, eyes, arms, thighs, legs and bellies and Your many terrible teeth; and as they are disturbed, so am I.

Bg 11.24 — O all-pervading Viṣṇu, seeing You with Your many radiant colors touching the sky, Your gaping mouths, and Your great glowing eyes, my mind is perturbed by fear. I can no longer maintain my steadiness or equilibrium of mind.

Bg 11.25 — O Lord of lords, O refuge of the worlds, please be gracious to me. I cannot keep my balance seeing thus Your blazing deathlike faces and awful teeth. In all directions I am bewildered.

Bg 11.26-27 — All the sons of Dhṛtarāṣṭra, along with their allied kings, and Bhīṣma, Droṇa, Karṇa – and our chief soldiers also – are rushing into Your fearful mouths. And some I see trapped with heads smashed between Your teeth.

Bg 11.28 — As the many waves of the rivers flow into the ocean, so do all these great warriors enter blazing into Your mouths.

Bg 11.29 — I see all people rushing full speed into Your mouths, as moths dash to destruction in a blazing fire.

Bg 11.30 — O Viṣṇu, I see You devouring all people from all sides with Your flaming mouths. Covering all the universe with Your effulgence, You are manifest with terrible, scorching rays.

Bg 11.31 — O Lord of lords, so fierce of form, please tell me who You are. I offer my obeisances unto You; please be gracious to me. You are the primal Lord. I want to know about You, for I do not know what Your mission is.

Bg 11.32 — The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Time I am, the great destroyer of the worlds, and I have come here to destroy all people. With the exception of you [the Pāṇḍavas], all the soldiers here on both sides will be slain.

Bg 11.33 — Therefore get up. Prepare to fight and win glory. Conquer your enemies and enjoy a flourishing kingdom. They are already put to death by My arrangement, and you, O Savyasācī, can be but an instrument in the fight.

Bg 11.34 — Droṇa, Bhīṣma, Jayadratha, Karṇa and the other great warriors have already been destroyed by Me. Therefore, kill them and do not be disturbed. Simply fight, and you will vanquish your enemies in battle.

Bg 11.35 — Sañjaya said to Dhṛtarāṣṭra: O King, after hearing these words from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the trembling Arjuna offered obeisances with folded hands again and again. He fearfully spoke to Lord Kṛṣṇa in a faltering voice, as follows.

Bg 11.36 — Arjuna said: O master of the senses, the world becomes joyful upon hearing Your name, and thus everyone becomes attached to You. Although the perfected beings offer You their respectful homage, the demons are afraid, and they flee here and there. All this is rightly done.

Bg 11.37 — O great one, greater even than Brahmā, You are the original creator. Why then should they not offer their respectful obeisances unto You? O limitless one, God of gods, refuge of the universe! You are the invincible source, the cause of all causes, transcendental to this material manifestation.

Bg 11.38 — You are the original Personality of Godhead, the oldest, the ultimate sanctuary of this manifested cosmic world. You are the knower of everything, and You are all that is knowable. You are the supreme refuge, above the material modes. O limitless form! This whole cosmic manifestation is pervaded by You!

Bg 11.39 — You are air, and You are the supreme controller! You are fire, You are water, and You are the moon! You are Brahmā, the first living creature, and You are the great-grandfather. I therefore offer my respectful obeisances unto You a thousand times, and again and yet again!

Bg 11.40 — Obeisances to You from the front, from behind and from all sides! O unbounded power, You are the master of limitless might! You are all-pervading, and thus You are everything!

Bg 11.41-42 — Thinking of You as my friend, I have rashly addressed You “O Kṛṣṇa,” “O Yādava,” “O my friend,” not knowing Your glories. Please forgive whatever I may have done in madness or in love. I have dishonored You many times, jesting as we relaxed, lay on the same bed, or sat or ate together, sometimes alone and sometimes in front of many friends. O infallible one, please excuse me for all those offenses.

Bg 11.43 — You are the father of this complete cosmic manifestation, of the moving and the nonmoving. You are its worshipable chief, the supreme spiritual master. No one is greater than You, nor can anyone be one with You. How then could there be anyone greater than You within the three worlds, O Lord of immeasurable power?

Bg 11.44 — You are the Supreme Lord, to be worshiped by every living being. Thus I fall down to offer You my respectful obeisances and ask Your mercy. As a father tolerates the impudence of his son, a friend the impertinence of a friend, or a husband the familiarity of his wife, please tolerate the wrongs I may have done You.

Bg 11.45 — After seeing this universal form, which I have never seen before, I am gladdened, but at the same time my mind is disturbed with fear. Therefore please bestow Your grace upon me and reveal again Your form as the Personality of Godhead, O Lord of lords, O abode of the universe.

Bg 11.46 — O universal form, O thousand-armed Lord, I wish to see You in Your four-armed form, with helmeted head and with club, wheel, conch and lotus flower in Your hands. I long to see You in that form.

Bg 11.47 — The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Arjuna, happily have I shown you, by My internal potency, this supreme universal form within the material world. No one before you has ever seen this primal form, unlimited and full of glaring effulgence.

Bg 11.48 — O best of the Kuru warriors, no one before you has ever seen this universal form of Mine, for neither by studying the Vedas, nor by performing sacrifices, nor by charity, nor by pious activities, nor by severe penances can I be seen in this form in the material world.

Bg 11.49 — You have been perturbed and bewildered by seeing this horrible feature of Mine. Now let it be finished. My devotee, be free again from all disturbances. With a peaceful mind you can now see the form you desire.

Bg 11.50 — Sañjaya said to Dhṛtarāṣṭra: The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, having spoken thus to Arjuna, displayed His real four-armed form and at last showed His two-armed form, thus encouraging the fearful Arjuna.

Bg 11.51 — When Arjuna thus saw Kṛṣṇa in His original form, he said: O Janārdana, seeing this humanlike form, so very beautiful, I am now composed in mind, and I am restored to my original nature.

Bg 11.52 — The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Arjuna, this form of Mine you are now seeing is very difficult to behold. Even the demigods are ever seeking the opportunity to see this form, which is so dear.

Bg 11.53 — The form you are seeing with your transcendental eyes cannot be understood simply by studying the Vedas, nor by undergoing serious penances, nor by charity, nor by worship. It is not by these means that one can see Me as I am.

Bg 11.54 — My dear Arjuna, only by undivided devotional service can I be understood as I am, standing before you, and can thus be seen directly. Only in this way can you enter into the mysteries of My understanding.

Bg 11.55 — My dear Arjuna, he who engages in My pure devotional service, free from the contaminations of fruitive activities and mental speculation, he who works for Me, who makes Me the supreme goal of his life, and who is friendly to every living being – he certainly comes to Me.

Worthwhile guide.

Great to see this beautiful thread still thriving, still topical and fully abloom.

forever blooming Rising Spirit...nice to hear from you...
.
yes, Tattvamasi, the gita 'speaks for itself'...great to read again..my past year has been a bit of a personal bhagavad gita...into dharma is the liberation..
.
..and thank you so much for that zhoro (and your contributions to the subject) ....blessings brother

.

well...there's a few threads discussing whether 'all is one' or how can the self be reborn ? (it's the individual jiva)

...so lets get into some total Advaita Vedanta, care of Sri Adi Shankaracharya..

from Upadesa Sahasri ('A Thousand Teachings')
Part - I [Prose]
Ch.1 - 'A method of enlightening the disciple'

[3]

'The Sruti also says, “A Brahmana after examining those worlds which are the result of Vedic actions should be indifferent to them seeing that nothing eternal can be achieved by means of those actions. Then, with fuel in his hands he should approach a teacher versed in the Vedas and established in Brahman in order to know the Eternal. The learned teacher should correctly explain to that disciple who has self-control and a tranquil mind and has approached him in the prescribed manner, the knowledge of Brahman revealing the imperishable and the eternal Being”. For only when knowledge is firmly grasped, it conduces to one’s own good and is capable of transmission.

This transmission of knowledge is helpful to people, like a boat to one who wants to cross a river. The scriptures too say, “Although one may give to the teacher this world surrounded by oceans and full of riches, this knowledge is even greater than that”. Otherwise there would be no attainment of knowledge. For the Srutis say, “A man having a teacher can know Brahman”, “Knowledge received from a teacher alone (becomes perfect)”, “The teacher is the pilot”, “Right Knowledge is called in this world a raft”, etc. The Smriti also says, “Knowledge will be imparted to you” etc.'

[5]

'He should also thoroughly impress upon the disciple qualities like humility, which are the means to knowledge.'

[6]

'The teacher is one who is endowed with the power of furnishing arguments pro and con, of understanding questions and remembering them, who possesses tranquillity, self-control, compassion and a desire to help others, who is versed in the scriptures and unattached to enjoyments both seen and unseen, who has renounced the means to all kinds of actions, who is a knower of Brahman and is established in it, who is never a transgressor of the rules of conduct and who is devoid of shortcomings such as ostentation, pride, deceit, cunning, jugglery, jealousy, falsehood, egotism and attachment. He has the sole aim of helping others and a desire to impart the knowledge of Brahman only.
He should first of all teach the Sruti texts establishing the oneness of the self with Brahman such as, “My child, in the beginning it (the universe) was Existence only, one alone without a second”, “Where one sees nothing else” “All this is but the Self”, “In the beginning all this was but the one Self” and “All this is verily Brahman”. '

[7-8]

'After teaching these he should teach the definition of Brahman through such Sruti texts as
“The self, devoid of sins”, “The Brahman that is immediate and direct”, “That which is beyond hunger and thirst”,
“Not-this, not-this”, “Neither gross nor subtle”, “This Self is not-this”, “It is the Seer Itself unseen”, “Knowledge-Bliss”, “Existence-Knowledge-Infinite”, “Imperceptible, bodiless”, “That great unborn Self”,
“Without the vital force and the mind”, “Unborn, comprising the interiorn and exterior”, “Consisting of knowledge only”, “Without interior or exterior”,
“It is verily beyond what is known as also what is unknown” and “Called Akasa (the self-effulgent One)”;

and also through such Smriti texts as the following: “It is neither born nor dies”, “It is not affected by anybody’s sins”, “Just as air is always in the ether”, “The individual Self should be regarded as the universal one”,
“It is called neither existent nor non-existent”, “As the Self is beginningless and devoid of qualities”,
“The same in all beings” and “The Supreme Being is different” – all these support the definition given by the Srutis and prove that the innermost Self is beyond transmigratory existence and that it is not different from Brahman, the all-comprehensive principle.

[9]

'The disciple who has thus learnt the definition of the inner Self from the Srutis and the Smritis and is eager to cross the ocean of transmigratory existence is asked, “Who are you, my child ?”. '

.

Has anybody prepared Amrita?
I can only find powdered harataki and guduchi
Also is allium sativum a suitable garlic?

I'd like to start experimenting with it during meditation.
My guess would be fresh plant material are more traditional than powders.
Any wisdoms would be greatly appreciated

8 pages of hot air.

Tantra for the win.

Alakh!

(Coming to you courtesy of Swayambhunath, your local voice of sectarianism)

Amrit paane se pahle Vish peena padta hai.

...before one can get Amrit, one must drink poison.



Symbology of Lord Shiva:

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Miscellaneous nonsense:



Wasson basically explains that while the priestly elite may not have been aware of psilocybin fungi, that the sadhus likely would have been, I could see the Aghori, and other nomadic followers of Shiva recognizing these fungi.

---

Amrit paane se pahle Vish peena padta hai.

I have my own interpretation of this saying, generally relating to the essential need for entheogens in the exploration of spirituality.





-eg

I've never seen ethnographic nor circumstantial evidence of psilocybin containing fungus being used in India, despite having lived there for a number years and having associated quite closely with both "Aghoris" and tribal people. Not to say it doesn't happen, of course.

Anyone pointed out yet that Sanskrit "haramala" (Peganum Harmala) means "Shiva Beads"?? Interoasting!

I've found a good deal of evidence for use of the mushroom in the ancient world, most of which I will have to dig up and post later, a good deal connects to India.

All of these holy men will ask you to be their disciple, will make you clean the ashram, and work quite hard for them before they will reveal the secret unto you, I feel the mushroom is this secret.

Soma likely represents any entheogen, whether it be Mucuna Pruriens, cannabis, peganum harmala, alcohol, or the stropharia cubensis mushroom, how ever I'm convinced these mushrooms are their most prized and well kept secret.

---

Misc. Evidence:




Picture attached.

(Also, look into "hunnic cauldrons" which seem to obvious my depict the mushroom)

---

I'm too tired to make my entire case here...

I feel the mushroom is known to these sadhus, nomadic followers of shiva, and other lower caste holy men, and ultimately was a huge influence on the creation of Hinduism.

I can see it in their art work, I can see it in their spirituality, the mushrooms influence is obvious to me. These bos indicus cattle (which the mushroom is a product of their dung) are considered sacred, to think that these people would not have noticed and used a dinner plate sized mushroom growing from their sacred cattle's dung seems unreasonable.

About the aghori:

The aghori are essentially hindu versions of GG Allin...

Aghoris have a philosophy that all matter is of God's creation, whether it is candy or cow-dung, and that one can not become defiled or impure. "aghora" means "fearless", and these aghori sadhus will preform certain acts to demonstrate that one not be defiled as well as displaying their lack of fear. They cover themselves with ashes of the dead, the only eat from a scull, they will eat dead bodies, fecal matter, fecal matter, rotted meat, etc...

The concept "untouchable" means nothing to an aghori.

So it seems likely that eating the mushroom, which is seen as "untouchable", would be known to the aghori, who are nomadic followers of shiva, who favor intoxication, and who reject notions of "pure" and "impure".



So the Brahmins would not know much of the mushroom as they see it as "untouchable", karmically polluting, however the "dalit" the lowest caste, the "untouchable people", according to wasson, were quite familiar with these fungi.

---

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This post turned into a mess, too many distractions while writing it, it seems chopped up and disorganized...

Any way, CNN has a show called "believer" where the aghori are explored, the host ended up running for his life, as the aghori sadhu began to defecate in his hand, eat it, and throw it at the CNN host... it was an interesting look at aghora.

This post was terrible, I make a better case when I have time.

-eg

Amrit paane se pahle Vish peena padta hai.

...before one can get Amrit, one must drink poison.

-eg

Miscellaneous Hindu representations of the mushroom.

Some of these you may have to look for it, but it's there.

This is circumstantial evidence, no?

-eg

http://www.ayurvedacolle...rticles/students/Guduchi
This is where I read about it EG.

I see flowers and parasols in those pictures.

As I mentioned before, I have a certain amount of first hand experience with Aghor, and with Indian tribal and similar outcaste religious traditions. You would need decades to even scrape the surface of these numerous and highly diverse traditions, which may, somewhere, involve mushrooms. However the writers you quote seem pretty far off the mark.