hi again dreamer,

I've actually decided to with the Phalaris aquatica var. stenoptera, because as you mentioned it contains both 5-meo-dmt and dmt, with a slightly higher concentration of 5-meo-dmt. This sounds perfect. I found a great place online which sells these live plants for a very reasonable price, and also, I cannot find the bracystachys variety online that you mentioned; I can only find seeds for it. I would much rather buy live plants and then grow them to maturity.

regarding 69ron's posts about 5-meo-dmt, yes I had read those before. I'm glad you cleared that up for me, thanks.

I am going to purchase several phalaris aquatica var. stenoptera plants to grow to maturity. I spoke with a very knowledgeable person about extraction from the grass which indicated that simply juicing fresh grass and mixing with pickling lime at the proper ratio and making into a paste and drying it out would be sufficient to have a potent, smokable product.

This to me would be perfect. To buy small plants that I could grow and take care of myself, then eventually extract 5-meo-dmt and dmt from them.

I wish I could find live plants of Phalaris brachystachys online somewhere, but I haven't thus far. But Phalaris aquatica var. stenoptera seems incredible as well.

Thanks for the invaluable knowledge and take care

Apologies for the tangent here, but:


Please give ANN Shulgin the credit she so rightly deserves as co-author of these works.

^^^^^^^

this really has nothing to do with the thread

Stenoptera is a good choice, the literature on that strain is collected here a little moar than halfway down the page. You are unlikely to find clones of brachystachys for sale because it's an annual rather than a perennial, but it's easy enough to grow from seed.

I'd advise skipping the juicing step. I did some experiments where I juiced the grass in a wheatgrass juicer and extracted from the juice and boiled and extracted the masticated leftovers. The juice only had about 30% of the alkaloids, the masticated leftovers had the other 70%. To get the majority of your alkaloids you are going to have to boil the leftover material anyway, so you might as well just boil all of it off the bat and not bother with the extremely tedious process of attempting to juice it for the simple sake of not making an already difficult process require any extra time and effort than it already takes.

You also don't just wanna add a bunch of lime to the juice and attempt to smoke that. If you were to go that route, you'd want to use a solvent to pull the alkaloids from the juice/base mix and evap or precipate the solvent to collect only the alkaloids for smoking, leaving all that lung damaging tarry grass gunk and hydroxide behind.

Be warned now, growing, harvesting, and extracting the grass is A LOT of effort. Fertlizing and harvesting regimens need to be carefully observed (and ideally documented as we are strongly lacking good data in this area). If you don't take care in the process you can end up putting a whole bunch of effort into a grass that is completely devoid of tryptamines (ask me how I know ) . Honestly attempting to get your hands on some of the 5-MeO-DMT containing acacia strains is probably a much moar realistically viable route if you want to end up with an actual product for the effort and not just do it for the challenge/research.

Seems like why even mess with trying to extract virola bark if it can be ramped up orally.

I couldn't find any iinformation about any acacia species that contain 5-meo-dmt.

I guess there's no way that I can do an extraction of these plants because I cannot obtain them.

And after considering what you said, I don't think I want to grow several phalaris plants out to fully maturity from when they are just 3 or 4 inches tall, and only have a few leaves/blades.

and it's indeed hard work, time consuming, and expensive to maintain a large amphibian in an artifical environment, not to mention the animal probably silently objecting to it...

What can i do? How else can I procure 5-meo-dmt?

also, I got ripped off when seeking plants from an untrustworthy online vendor. I won't go into detail about it except that I got ripped off.

ok thanks and have a good day

Nor does your, or indeed this post...

Sure it does

The thread is about 5-meo-dmt, not giving literary credits to random authors.

Hmmm....I suppose I did leave her out, however the chemistry is all sasha, Ann and others contributed to the qualitative comments, and Ann wrote chapters in the biography section, however when it comes to the chemistry, it's sasha I think of first...I mean, Tania manning never gets much credit, and look at all she has done. Any way, I was not intentionally trying to leave Ann out, and were it not for the sake of brevity I might have included her name.

-eg

These plants all contain only (or mostly) 5-meo-DMT.

Delosperma hallii contains 5-meo-DMT as an active tryptamine.

As does Delosperma nubigenum,

...and Acacia auriculiformis which has 5-MeO-DMT in stem bark

....acacia farnesiana has Traces of 5-MeO-DMT in its fruit.

Desmodium racemosum contains 5-MEO-DMT...

...Phyllodium pulchellum (syn. Desmodium pulchellum) contains 0.2% 5-MeO-DMT, and very small quantities of DMT...5-MEO-DMT dominates in mature plant.

Dictyoloma incanescens, 5-MeO-DMT in leaves and 0.04% 5-MeO-DMT in bark.

Dutaillyea drupacea contains 0.4% 5-MeO-DMT in leaves.

Dutaillyea oreophila contains 5-MeO-DMT in leaves.

Rutaceae sp Tetradium ruticarpum(syn. Evodia rutaecarpa), 5-MeO-DMT in leaves, fruit and roots.

Limonia acidissima syn Limonia elephantum or Fernonia limonia (wood-apple) in Talakona forest, Limonia acidissima, 5-MeO-DMT in stems

Euodia leptococca (formerly Melicope) contains 0.2% total alkaloids, 0.07% 5-MeO-DMT; 5-MeO-DMT in leaves and stems, also "5-MeO-DMT-Oxide and a beta-carboline"

Pilocarpus organensis contains 5-MeO-DMT in leaves.

Keep in mind that some of these sources contain a rather low amount of 5-meo-DMT, these are just suggestions, there are many options, again, TIHKAL has a chapter called "DMT is everywhere" which covers all this.

-eg

thanks for the valuable info. I think I will try and find the plant Dutaillyea drupacea as this one seems to have the highest concentration of 5-meo-dmt, after of course phalaris brachystachys and aquatica. I wish i could find DRIED plants somewhere that contain 5-meo-dmt in reasonable quantities. But I cannot, anywhere.

thanks gain,

There are some Delosperma species which contain 5-meo-DMT which are sold as house plants.

I was thinking the same about Dutaillyea Drupacea, though I will admit that I know very little about this plant.

Again, some of these options listed may not contain enough 5-meo-DMT to be practical for extraction, but we're listed as suggestions or potential leads.

....I guess the point was that there are options if you are willing to look.



-eg

I personally cannot believe and am hesitant to say that everything he said over the years was just nonsense.
(at least I could verify in the meantime some minor things he said, and these were genuine)
So until someone here made serious tests about how sensitive 5-MeO-DMT is and also it's solubility, I personally rather tend to be cautious. But everybody is free to decide for himself.
I would actually expect just theoretically that it is more sensitive to high PHs than DMT.
To verify this thorough tests would be needed, as just getting something from an extraction doesn't mean, that it didn't kill part of the yield or if everything was pulled, etc.



What original source does this 3% value come from?
Reading this thread (https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=707296#post707296) I thought it was a misinterpretation once done, where someone didn't understand what mg% means (mg/100g). So the actual value would have been 0.3%.
So I would be very interested if this 3% value is now really correct or not.


About other unconventional sources: I say go for it! The more knowledge we can gain the better.
I would just be aware, that if you have a source plant, not generally used, I would make sure to first make a decent *C/MS analysis of it, as some plant sources contain some nasty other alkaloids you wouldn't wanna get into your system.

Edit:
In this relation, although a bit offtopic: Anyone by accident knows, what exactly is in Desmodium gangeticum, also called "saumya" ("rich in Soma juice".
Edit2: Ah sorry, found it!
https://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/Desmodium_gangeticum

Fair enough, the online version is pretty much down to Sasha. I was feeling a bit off - as described round here somewhere :shrug:

Meanwhile back on (mildly deviated) topic:

Jim deKorne describes an adverse, allergy-like reaction to one of the 5-MeO plants. That Giant reed? Arundo donax. Another 5-MeO-containing species worth a look, though.

Pilocarpus organensis should be approached with caution, plants in the same genus contain the toxic alkaloid pilocarpine and misidentification would be a real hazard.

If only it would be available at all. I don't know of anyone successfully getting hands on such a plant. So to anyone in the specific geolocation (In forests and cerrado, 10-850m; Brazil [Bahia, Rio de Janeiro, Sao Paulo (rare), Parana and Santa Catarina]): Quite some people would be very interested in growing this plant.

Arundo Donax seems to have quite some alkaloid mix in there (Bufotenine, 5-MeO-NMT, DMT, Gramine, ..., [but no 5-MeO-DMT???]), of which some do not seem very pleasant (e.g. bufotenidine, dehydrobufotenine)
(Source: Garden of Eden, Voogelbreinder)
Here a thread on it: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=34338

I'm guessing that arundo donax was the "allergy reaction" 5-meo-DMT plant described by dekorne.











Maybe P. arundinacea as a 5-meo-DMT source?



-eg

Is the DMT in these grasses in its free-base form?

When dealing with ACRB or MHRB the DMT contained in the plant is in its tannate or oxalate salt form, which is not smokeable, the sodium hydroxide used during extraction converts the DMT into its smokeable free-base form.

I have heard of people sprouting phalaris seeds, then drying, powdering, and smoking the sprouts, I have also heard of individuals running grass through a wheatgrass juicer, then evaporating the juice ans smoking the residue...if the DMT is in its free-base form in theory this would work, otherwise would you not end up with an unsmokeable salt from of DMT?

I know I should probably already know this, however these grasses were never much of an interest of mine, I had a quick storm of researching them when I first discovered them, and for many reasons moved on to other areas of research fairly quickky. So I'm having to catch up on a good deal of the research which I neglected to do in the past.

-eg

Arundo donax roots contain bufotenidine and dehydrobufotenidine both of which are considered pretty nasty toxins so I'd advise shying away from the roots, unless we can devise a method of easily removing these unsavory alkaloids. Shulgin states that the flowers contain DMT and 5-MeO-NMT which makes me think a purely flower extraction could be of sufficient entheogenic interest and it's one that's been sitting on my "to investigate" list for some time. The amount of biomass this plant produces alone makes it of sufficient interest for further investigation.

From TiHKAL:

The alkaloids in all these grasses are in a salt form not freebase. Salts can be smoked, they just require higher temperatures to melt/vaporize than their freebase counterparts. I'm skeptical of the reports of effects from smoking evaporated grass juices, if you can't get effects from smoking mimosa bark at 3% DMT it's very unlikely you'll get effects from a grass juice at .003% DMT, but seedlings are supposed to be pretty high in tryptamine content so who knows, it may be possible, most of the old ER reports are pretty reliable. In any case it's easy enough to add a little soda carb or lime and pull with some alcohol to yield a cleaner freebase that will prove much easier on the lungs.