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Conversion of freebase dmt into 5-meo-dmt Options
 
GuruD
#1 Posted : 4/20/2017 6:54:06 PM
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Hi,

I need to first know if this is possible. And if it is in fact possible, how could it theoretically be done?

I have roughly 400mg of freebase dmt which I would like to convert into 5-meo-dmt.

Does anyone know how this could be made possible?

5-meo-dmt seems impossible for me to obtain. It's relatively easy to extract dmt.

If anyone could offer any advice, knowledge, or information regarding this it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you
Yew ken knot mayk mi knull bee kuhz eye am gohd sew kyndli phuhk awf withe yor knahtzee skair taktiks
 

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Mindlusion
#2 Posted : 4/20/2017 7:01:00 PM

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GuruD wrote:
Hi,

I need to first know if this is possible. And if it is in fact possible, how could it theoretically be done?


no
Expect nothing, Receive everything.
"Experiment and extrapolation is the only means the organic chemists (humans) currrently have - in contrast to "God" (and possibly R. B. Woodward). "
He alone sees truly who sees the Absolute the same in every creature...seeing the same Absolute everywhere, he does not harm himself or others. - The Bhagavad Gita
"The most beautiful thing we can experience, is the mysterious. The source of all true art and science."
 
GuruD
#3 Posted : 4/20/2017 8:00:27 PM
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hi,

I'm not trying to sound insulting in any way, but are you a highly experienced and knowledgable chemist?

If not, then how do you know that dmt cannot be converted into 5-meo-dmt?

Yew ken knot mayk mi knull bee kuhz eye am gohd sew kyndli phuhk awf withe yor knahtzee skair taktiks
 
Mindlusion
#4 Posted : 4/20/2017 8:23:02 PM

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GuruD wrote:
hi,

I'm not trying to sound insulting in any way, but are you a highly experienced and knowledgable chemist?

If not, then how do you know that dmt cannot be converted into 5-meo-dmt?



yes

its not feasible to start from dmt, but to the non-chemist this isn't obvious (they look similar). other than enzymes, there are no feasible methods available to selectively hydroxylate the 5 position, or any other substitution for that matter.

It's not even facile to start from bufotenine... its necessary to use protecting groups

Say you wanted to do it as a proof of concept, you could, using a lot of protection/deprotection steps, some directing groups, removal of said groups, etc etc, would take maybe 8 steps and get 1% return.
or you could start from something with the substitution in place (thanks to enzymes) like melatonin and do it in two.
Expect nothing, Receive everything.
"Experiment and extrapolation is the only means the organic chemists (humans) currrently have - in contrast to "God" (and possibly R. B. Woodward). "
He alone sees truly who sees the Absolute the same in every creature...seeing the same Absolute everywhere, he does not harm himself or others. - The Bhagavad Gita
"The most beautiful thing we can experience, is the mysterious. The source of all true art and science."
 
GuruD
#5 Posted : 4/20/2017 8:59:46 PM
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yes, i remember reading somewhere that it is actually not quite difficult to convert melatonin into 5-meo-dmt.

I also read that it only requires two steps.

Since you are a skilled chemist, would it be easy for a non-chemist to produce freebase 5-meo-dmt from melatonin?

And is this something I could find out how to do on the internet? I'm sure there aren't any books on this...

thanks,
Yew ken knot mayk mi knull bee kuhz eye am gohd sew kyndli phuhk awf withe yor knahtzee skair taktiks
 
Mindlusion
#6 Posted : 4/20/2017 9:04:29 PM

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GuruD wrote:
would it be easy for a non-chemist to produce freebase 5-meo-dmt from melatonin?


not yet,
not without using watched reagents or specialized conditions, which means it is not discussed here.
working on this
Expect nothing, Receive everything.
"Experiment and extrapolation is the only means the organic chemists (humans) currrently have - in contrast to "God" (and possibly R. B. Woodward). "
He alone sees truly who sees the Absolute the same in every creature...seeing the same Absolute everywhere, he does not harm himself or others. - The Bhagavad Gita
"The most beautiful thing we can experience, is the mysterious. The source of all true art and science."
 
GuruD
#7 Posted : 4/20/2017 11:13:46 PM
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so it's basically buy an amphibian just to have a reliable source of 5-meo-dmt. Thumbs down

I really don't have the means to take care of a high-maintenance pet for many years; and even if I did, it strikes me as unethical.

I wish there was a way to extract pure 5-meo-dmt from something, but I don't know of it.
Yew ken knot mayk mi knull bee kuhz eye am gohd sew kyndli phuhk awf withe yor knahtzee skair taktiks
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#8 Posted : 4/21/2017 12:12:14 AM
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Extraction of 5-meo-DMT from plant sources is entirely possible.

As far as synthesis, unless you have education and training in organic chemistry it's out of the question, however:

You may want to pick up a copy of TIHKAL by Alexander shulgin. (PIHKAL is great as well but is centered on phenethylamines)

https://erowid.org/libra...e/tihkal/tihkal38.shtml
Here is a link to the 5-meo-DMT TIHKAL entry.

Though honestly, you would need background in chemistry to understand the processes covered in these books, and should never attempt them with out education and training in organic chemistry.

Tihkal has lists of tryptamine containing plants, synthesis, qualitative comments, history, dose, anecdotes, and just about anything else you could want to know about tryptamines.


-eg
 
DoorSeeker
#9 Posted : 4/21/2017 4:47:36 AM

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GuruD wrote:
so it's basically buy an amphibian just to have a reliable source of 5-meo-dmt. Thumbs down

I really don't have the means to take care of a high-maintenance pet for many years; and even if I did, it strikes me as unethical.

I wish there was a way to extract pure 5-meo-dmt from something, but I don't know of it.


You can get it from virola bark resin but it is extremely hard to find and supposedly if you do find it, the resin often times, has already been extracted from the bark. I suppose if you look for it hard enough and trusted the source you could get a hold of it.
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Aum_Shanti
#10 Posted : 4/21/2017 6:56:10 AM
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Quote:
As far as synthesis, unless you have education and training in organic chemistry it's out of the question, however:


I would think the biggest problem for a synthesis is, that as a normal private person you cannot get the needed materials for the final alkylization step. They are all watched chemicals.

Regarding extracting 5-MeO-DMT yourself:
Virola is certainly a way, although, as has been said, today it's hard to find good material. Also in some countries Virola resin is as illegal as the substance itself.
Another way, although as it seems a tedious one, is Phalaris (Turkey Red).
There are also some other options, but as it seems they are very hard to find.

That's basically the reason why almost all the 5-MeO-DMT on the market is synthesized.
I claim not that this is the truth. As this is just what got manifested into my mind at the current position in time on this physical plane. So please feel not offended by anything I say.
 
GuruD
#11 Posted : 4/23/2017 2:06:48 AM
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yes I had virola resin one time, but I dind't know how to properly extract it at the time and ended up wasting it

its so easy too

just mix virola resin with pickling lime at a ratio of 4:1 resin to pickling lime, add a little water and mix thoroughly into a paste, let dry, then soak in 91% isopropyl alcohol overnight, shaking periodically, then filter and evaporate alcohol and left with nearly pure, smokeable 5-meo-dmt.

I wish I could get my hands on this stuff again. I read that yopo seeds are too unreliable because they often times have a higher ratio of bufotenine to 5-meo-dmt then the other way around.

it hopefully shouldn't be too hard to find virola resin again. Thanks for the reminder!
Yew ken knot mayk mi knull bee kuhz eye am gohd sew kyndli phuhk awf withe yor knahtzee skair taktiks
 
Mindlusion
#12 Posted : 4/23/2017 2:23:15 AM

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GuruD wrote:

just mix virola resin with pickling lime at a ratio of 4:1 resin to pickling lime, add a little water and mix thoroughly into a paste, let dry, then soak in 91% isopropyl alcohol overnight, shaking periodically, then filter and evaporate alcohol and left with nearly pure, smokeable 5-meo-dmt.


somehow I doubt that, they call it virola resin for a reason. a simple non-selective alcohol extraction like that isn't going to give you pure freebase 5-meo-dmt.

More likely a crude resin, that hopefully you could salt product out of. Unfortunately, it has been my experience that impure 5-meo-dmt does not crystallize out of solution to form salts very well at all.

the other reason being i've yet to really see a successful extraction of the stuff on the forum, i don't doubt that it is possible though, and the alcohol extraction method is what i would start with.
Expect nothing, Receive everything.
"Experiment and extrapolation is the only means the organic chemists (humans) currrently have - in contrast to "God" (and possibly R. B. Woodward). "
He alone sees truly who sees the Absolute the same in every creature...seeing the same Absolute everywhere, he does not harm himself or others. - The Bhagavad Gita
"The most beautiful thing we can experience, is the mysterious. The source of all true art and science."
 
GuruD
#13 Posted : 4/23/2017 2:48:12 AM
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hi,

I didn't say pure, I said nearly pure. And this is the knowledge I was given from someone who has successfully extracted 5-meo-dmt from virola resin with calcium hyrdoxide at said ratio and done an alcohol extraction. Yes I haven't tried it yet but this person who told me this is also an expert in chemistry.

and the virola resin I had was not in a resinous form at all. It was powdery. I can easily see a smokable extraction with pickling lime and alcohol being done with this stuff. I wish I still had it.

Quote:
the other reason being i've yet to really see a successful extraction of the stuff on the forum


there's many people out there that have the knowledge and experience about extractions outside the scope of this forum.

Quote:
I don't doubt that it is possible though, and the alcohol extraction method is what i would start with.


thanks for the support.
Yew ken knot mayk mi knull bee kuhz eye am gohd sew kyndli phuhk awf withe yor knahtzee skair taktiks
 
dreamer042
#14 Posted : 4/23/2017 2:51:20 AM

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GuruD wrote:
hi,

I'm not trying to sound insulting in any way, but are you a highly experienced and knowledgable chemist?

Note the beaker under his avatar, this icon is an assurance that yes the user you talking to does fulfill those requirements and the forum recognizes this to be the case. Thumbs up

Actually phalaris grasses are quite a viable source and this has been repeatedly demonstrated in the back issues of The Entheogen Review. Turkey Red (and P. arundinacea strains in general) are generally low in alkaloid content, and while technically workable, are not really worth the effort. There are species/strains available that have reasonable alkaloid content, especially considering the dose range for 5-MeO-DMT. I'd suggest attemping to source the 5-MeO containing species of P. brachystachys as the absolute best source (even if you end up with the N,N containing one is a great high yielding very pure source so no big loss). As a second choice looking to P. aquatica var. Stenoptera (this one contains some N,N but is 5-MeO dominant and rumor round the rabbit hole has it that the synergy is much nicer than the 5-methoxy alone). Most varieties of aquatica tested in the literature are reasonably high in 5-MeO, albiet cocktails of alkaloids, which may or may not be desirable.

There are also a handful of acacia species listed in the wiki to contain 5-MeO and several other varieties of plants which likely will prove even moar suitable than the grasses.

Kikker sez: Be kind to the Toads and leave em be, the plants got you covered. Cool
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
Mindlusion
#15 Posted : 4/23/2017 3:38:31 AM

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GuruD wrote:
hi,

I didn't say pure, I said nearly pure. And this is the knowledge I was given from someone who has successfully extracted 5-meo-dmt from virola resin with calcium hyrdoxide at said ratio and done an alcohol extraction. Yes I haven't tried it yet but this person who told me this is also an expert in chemistry.

and the virola resin I had was not in a resinous form at all. It was powdery. I can easily see a smokable extraction with pickling lime and alcohol being done with this stuff. I wish I still had it.

Quote:
the other reason being i've yet to really see a successful extraction of the stuff on the forum


there's many people out there that have the knowledge and experience about extractions outside the scope of this forum.

Quote:
I don't doubt that it is possible though, and the alcohol extraction method is what i would start with.


thanks for the support.


my friend of a friend cooked up some LSD following Uncle Festers handbook, he said it was easy.

I take your claims with a grain of salt because they are all too commonly spouted off on the internet. Talk is cheap, and it contributes nothing but mud. Experimental evidence is worth looking at.
If it were so easily done it would have popped up successfully on the forum at least once, as it has been tried before. But by all means, prove me wrong

and in my world 'nearly pure' means 'nearly pure' not 'alcoholic plant extract'
Expect nothing, Receive everything.
"Experiment and extrapolation is the only means the organic chemists (humans) currrently have - in contrast to "God" (and possibly R. B. Woodward). "
He alone sees truly who sees the Absolute the same in every creature...seeing the same Absolute everywhere, he does not harm himself or others. - The Bhagavad Gita
"The most beautiful thing we can experience, is the mysterious. The source of all true art and science."
 
dreamer042
#16 Posted : 4/23/2017 4:07:00 AM

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It's worth noting that much (most) of the Virola resin that has been commercially available over the past decade or so has proven bunk over and over again for everyone that's attempted to extract or ingest it in every form and with every method.

I don't doubt there is legitimate virola resin and bark out there (it's been demonstrated to exist repeatedly in the old literature) but a quick read through the hundreds of members of this forum and elsewhere who have tried to work with the commercially available stock over the years is pretty conclusive that this is not the droid you are looking for.

I suspect our perfect plant source is to be found in that wiki link and I'd suggest our collective efforts are best geared toward exploring that area (while our chemists keep working up the viable safe and unwatched home synthesis route).
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
JAi
#17 Posted : 4/23/2017 8:36:28 AM
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Speaking of which, what was the 2 step conversion from melatonin?

Eye got shredded virola. I hear large pieces of bark can be heated to get the resin to drip out. I feel like a heated press might work on the shreds, sounds more difficult than the large pieces. Wouldn't the alcohol get much more than the resin? I also thought of EtOH as a go to.

The question there is - why does it even need to be super pure, it's highly potent 5-meo-dmt. It may be preferable not to be able to over do it. I was thinking someone might make an alcohol extract and add it to tobacco snuff in trial amounts.
 
Aum_Shanti
#18 Posted : 4/23/2017 9:09:29 AM
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Quote:

Speaking of which, what was the 2 step conversion from melatonin?


Just google, you will find it easily. But it's also kinda obvious if you look what Melatonin actually is: N-Acetyl-5-Methoxytryptamine

Quote:
Eye got shredded virola.

69ron once explained, that as it seems the 5-MeO-DMT is mainly in the inner bark. There is allegedly already a visible shiny resin layer there. He explained, that usually this gets scraped off locally and the rest of the bark offered for art crafting on the local markets, which then has very little remaining 5-MeO-DMT.
That's why he recommended whole bark and then look if the inside is shiny or if it has scrape marks, to identify just from sight, if an extraction would be successful.
But then, there are also the shady circumstances with 69ron. But I think in most of this stuff he said, he was genuine, and it seems he was the most experienced one with Virola and 5-MeO-DMT.

But if your bark seems OK and there's resin dripping, it certainly sounds like good material.
An alcohol extraction certainly also gets other stuff out, but it's certainly a good start. Depending on how pure you want to get it, you can then make further steps.
Again, 69ron recommended the following:
Citric Acid (PH4), Sodium Carbonate (PH10), and DCM for pulling. No Hydroxy-bases, no high PHs!

Quote:
The question there is - why does it even need to be super pure, it's highly potent 5-meo-dmt.


It sure doesn't need to be super pure. You just have to be aware how pure it really is, to get a correct dosage, and there shouldn't be anymore anything in it which is harmful or makes smoking very harsh...
And it should be potent enough, to get everything within one toke, as 5-MeO-DMT isn't the kind of substance you will be able to take several tokes...

All just MHO.

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Edited by Moderator. No discussion of buying/selling/sourcing.
I claim not that this is the truth. As this is just what got manifested into my mind at the current position in time on this physical plane. So please feel not offended by anything I say.
 
GuruD
#19 Posted : 4/23/2017 3:45:28 PM
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hi dreamer042,

so you are saying that Phalaris brachystachys grass contains high concentrations of 5-meo-dmt?

this sounds great.

So if I obtain a plant of this and grow it out so the grass gets long and there is plenty of grass, could I simply run the fresh long grass blades through a juicing machine of some sort, such as a vegetable juicer or fruit juicer, or even better a wheatgrass juicer? And then mix the fresh juice with calcium hydroxide aka pickling lime to basify the solution, make it into a paste, let it dry out, and smoke that? It seems like it would definitely work. Also do you know what percentages of 5-meo-dmt and dmt are to be found in turkey red phalaris grass? It almost seems like the perfect plant to grow and have around.

I'm so stoked to try this! In fact I KNOW that it would work, and I don't need an advanced chemist to verify or validate it.

Thanks a TON for the information.

gurud
Yew ken knot mayk mi knull bee kuhz eye am gohd sew kyndli phuhk awf withe yor knahtzee skair taktiks
 
dreamer042
#20 Posted : 4/23/2017 4:21:19 PM

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Be wary of 69ron's information on Virola/5-MeO-DMT, he was associated with and defending a specific vendor offering a product that was not "as advertised". If you read through the back issues of The Entheogen Review it's abundantly clear that 5-MeO-DMT extraction works just the same as N,N-DMT extraction. All this weak bases and DCM stuff is malarky from a vendor offering a bad product and has done a great disservice to this whole community in perpetuating false information.

There are at least 2 types of P. brachystachys out there, one is high in N,N-DMT see the comment on benzyme's analysis right below the spectra in this first post, the other is high in 5-MeO-DMT. There could be, and likely are, moar varities out there, but these are the two we've tested.

The old literature reports up to 3% alkaloids in P. brachystachys, but that is in seedlings which always seem have a higher tryptamine-per-weight ratio. Actually growing bulk quantity for extraction don't expect such high yields, but they should still be reasonably viable. It is a good choice for further exploration in any case.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
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