Interesting. I really would like to get to the bottom of that. You said your spice is good and your technique is good. And just got shut out. Could be a tolerance, could be a willful shutout. Very strange.

I'm not completely satisfied with the explanation that it is only a matter smoking technique or spice quality, even if that comes to play here too.
I have read a few other accounts of experienced people that suddenly have a hard time breaking through. or just gets a slight buzz.
One theory could be that sometimes we build up some kind of tolerance that stays in the system for a while?
Or perhaps one is simple shut out of hyperspace for another mystical reason.
But I would bet on chemistry and biology.
I will make some DMTfumarate and try IM-injections. Let's see if that makes a difference!?

I hear people say this all the time. Simply put, if you are not "breaking through" or you're having trouble "getting there," then you are not getting enough DMT into your bloodstream, whether that be through your lungs or any other method of ingestion. If it wasn't technique as you say, then the DMT was already or almost completely gone. There is nothing that will stop DMT, not even your own brain's shield, from entering in. The blood-brain barrier in fact actively selects and intentionally passes DMT into the brain. There is nothing that can happen physiologically that will stop DMT from transporting you once you have gotten a dose large enough into your bloodstream. At the very most you may be able to produce enough anxiety and stress after having realized how large of an amount of DMT you've just ingested, (oh shit!) that you could constrict your blood vessels just enough to hold the experience off for a fraction of a second or two. It will never matter how so called "not ready" you are in any way, shape or form. DMT does not transport you based on whether you're ready or open enough, though it certainly does take you. The one requirement is that you are bold or naive enough, that you were brave or ignorant enough to get enough into your bloodstream all at once. When you have reoccurring troubles like you are experiencing it points to an internal energetic blockage, but not in the way most people think, in that DMT will all the sudden just magically not work. You may be scared to death of it, so scared that you've moved beyond the fear so as not to continually bring it back into your experience. And maybe you're smoking and talking about how you can't get there anymore as a pride thing. Kind of a, "I've smoked so much DMT it doesn't even work on me anymore!" I challenge anyone who thinks they can't get there anymore to inject 100 milligrams of DMT fumarate directly into your bloodstream. I then challenge anyone who believes they've built a tolerance, to inject that 100 milligrams, and then a few hours later inject 75 milligrams of fumarate. You will see the myth of tolerance blown out the window. Once you squash your pride and humble yourself, you will see that you were only scared to death, frozen by astonishment and fear of the unknown. When that needle makes it's way to your vein, you will be filled with rich anxiety, and in that moment given the choice to be brave. Not once did your solar plexus flare before each of your failed attempts, because the body knew before you did, that you were too scared to go but too prideful to admit it.

I would second this but not so much as a matter of fact and I would also not promote any injection of DMT.
I would suggest 250mg pure harmine HCl and 200mg DMT freebase converted to salt and taken orally. But if the "shut out" is actually caused by fear and anxiety, This would make for a very unpleasant experience.

I completely agree. I certainly wouldn't regularly inject DMT myself, nor would I recommend it; orally is certainly the best way to go as you suggested. I was only using an experiment to the extreme that can be tested by anyone who is willing to discover, that there is no such thing as a "blockage" or a tolerance build up.

And Noxulifer, if you are going to inject fumarate, I wouldn't do it into your muscle.

Sorry I find the two quotes above contradicting: the first says one cant stop it anyway as it is a hardware matter in the end (once in the bloodstream there is no stopping it as you propose), then the second says that scare/fear or energetic block (whatever that means) can stop it though?
Feeling puzzled.

No need for sorry Jees. Let me clarify. If you get enough DMT into your bloodstream all at once there is no stopping it, period end of story. When I said internal energetic (emotional) "blockage" I was using the term loosely and to be relatable to the topic. Basically to say, that the closest thing that could ever come to a so-called "blockage" or "shut out" would be your own fears and uncertainties. Though your pride may keep you with a pipe in hand. The reason fear continually brings that which we fear back into our experience is so that we are presented with opportunities to overcome until finally, we decide to be brave. The only "gatekeeper" there has ever been and ever will be, is you. So Jees, let me unpuzzle you. The first quote is once it's in your bloodstream, and the second is a possible sub-conscious reason you're not getting it into your bloodstream. Take anyone who has ever said they've been "shut out" hahaha by DMT and have them inject or take orally 100 milligrams of fumarate. Injection sharpening the point, that when that needle makes it's way to your vein you will be filled with fear and anxiety, as you should be, because your body knows there is no such thing as a shut out. In that moment we are presented with the opportunity to either face our fears or run from them. Maybe slightly or even abstractly paradoxical, but not at all contradictory.

Jees would you mind changing the first word in the first quote back from here to there. Thank you Done

Thanks for your answer.


I'm still as puzzled about your mechanics-of-blockage suggestion.
Take an experienced vaper, who knows his material, dosing and vaping technique very well, he/she has a good cloud of vaped spice in the lungs, hold in long enough, and your suggestion is that he/she does not get it in the blood stream (enough) because of fear/uncertainties/pride/whatnot ... ?
I can understand psychological-emotional factors play role, obviously and absolutely! But I would never have thought it would render their effects to play role on the level of hardware lungs-to-bloodstream, rather more in the 'software' department downstream the enfolding of the experience. But that is just my hunch only.

* * *

My curiosity is fueled by the differences in ROA's, if I'm correct your stance is mainly supported by a difference between vaping and IV. May I ask, are you personally at home, or have reference material to share, where the bloodstream was checked to seal the conclusions that correctly vaped spice would not end up in the bloodstream in certain psychological-emotional occasions or conditions? Something IV proved to overcome?

Hmmm?.... So you're still puzzled about "my" mechanics-of-blockage suggestion? That may be because I have made no such suggestion, and in fact, haven't said a thing about the mechanics of any blockages whatsoever, and I am more than interested to see if you can point to a sentence where I have. I'm not certain if English is your native language, and if it's not I completely understand, but if it is, please do go back and reread my words; gain a clearer understanding of what I've expressed. As I've said now ad nauseam, it doesn't matter if you're an "experienced vaper, who knows his material," or whether you've just accidently in some way been dosed by a Colorado River toad (and completely ignorant of its effect), if you get enough DMT into your blood all at once, you will be transported. I have never once said fear or any other emotion or thing could stop DMT once it's in the bloodstream.

"May I ask, are you personally at home, or have reference material to share, where the bloodstream was checked to seal the conclusions that correctly vaped spice would not end up in the bloodstream in certain psychological-emotional occasions or conditions? Something IV proved to overcome?"

This is this most perverted part of your interpretation of what I've said. People who think they've been "shut out" or have built some sort of tolerance to it are simply not getting enough into their bloodstream all at once, period. This can be caused by a deep-rooted fear, and that fear keeps bringing it back to you because we manifest into our experience that which we energize with emotion and focus of mind. The fear is not inherently a bad thing, it is only when we let our fears overcome us that fear is considered to be detrimental; when we cower away from, rather than face our fears with bravery. When we cower internally we will often not admit it even to ourselves due to pride, let alone anyone else. And often come up with perceptually more attractive reasons like, "I think I've ingested so much DMT that it doesn't even work on me anymore!" When you let the fear overcome you (and then decide that you don't want to go), you manifest things like the DMT not being evenly distributed through the changa, or holding the lighter a bit too close to the bowl for your friend destroying or completely vaporizing all of the DMT beforehand. Hesitation and uncertainty breed anxiety. You are your only gatekeeper.

Oh, and you're welcome Jees! I enjoy the conversation!

Its also dosage...

hello Heavin, whats your take on this situation then.

when DMT was working as it should, i would load 100mg of 1:1 infused herb into my bong and smoke the whole dose in a single hit and hold it in until i couldnt hold my breath any longer.

currently i can load up a 200mg into my bong, smoke the whole thing in a single hit, and hold it until i can non longer hold my breath.

currently i am not able to achieve the full effects of the DMT experience, something happens but it is very mild.

do you think im simply not getting enough in my system? if you do, why the discrepancy between previous and current effects when the dose is doubled and the ROA is the same?

Here, you just said it again, what i understand from this is, a person who is vaping correctly is not getting enough into blood stream is caused as you said by fear. Can u please explain how fear can stop a the dmt from getting into the blood stream?

At least that is something.
I recess at this point, may the sun shine on you.

@Sakkadelic: What I could think what is meant:

Due to (unconscious) fear you unconsciously sabotage your correct smoking tek, so that you get less into the bloodstream.
As you yourself are not aware that you actually deliberately make a mistake, you are surprised that it doesn't work.

@Heavin: I would try not using a type of writing style, which may easily get misunderstood as slightly offensive by others. And please don't feel offended or take anything personal, by what is said here by others.

Maybe some people's bodies compensate by creating new or more MAO enzymes in and around the lungs. I have had DMT myself quite a bit and have seen others do just as much and have never seen such a shut out. I am skeptical of it's existence but if there is such a thing it is likely either physiological as the theory above or it is psychological in that an individual will not allow themselves past a certain point. It can be a very traumatic experience, so something happening on a subconscious level wouldn't be unheard of.

Hi 3rdI.. So here is what I've come to understand about all of this. As we refine our techniques of extraction and purification as a whole, so must we refine our vaporization techniques. Meaning the purer the DMT, the more vulnerable it is to degradation. My guess is that when extracting DMT became mainstream and people were using less refined methods of extraction, as a whole people were getting the more yellow DMT. (which actually ends up being beneficial if your method of ingestion is going to be vaporization) I believe the yellow DMT is due to the plant fats (the oils we see when rolling our jars) passing into the naphtha layer slowly over time and that it ends up coating the crystals during the freeze precipitation process acting as a heat shield protecting most of the DMT from being destroyed, and of course allowing most of it to be effectively ingested. So I think that now, as more and more people are purifying their DMT, we are seeing more and more people having trouble "getting there." This due to the DMT being destroyed by heat. A bic lighter burns at around 3600 degrees Fahrenheit and a torch lighter burns at around 2500 degrees Fahrenheit. Add to that the air being drawn over the coal of a pipe or bong, and it could reach in excess of 4000 degrees Fahrenheit. So if I had to guess, you infused your herbs with pure white DMT, and it was destroyed by the heat of the coal. If you are going to use vaporization as your method of ingestion, I suggest allowing your naphtha layer to turn a slight yellow before pulling, and then skip the purification process. It is no coincidence that as people begin to purify DMT to be vaporized more and more, the more stories we hear of failed attempts. Using a less hot heat source would be more effective. Maybe a magnifying glass focusing the sunlight. I'll be back in a few hours or so. I hope this helps

sorry but that didn't help at all, you didn't address my situation and just told me things that anyone with a decent knowledge of DMT already knows.

i'll give you some more info. i'm not new to DMT and have spent a lot of time researching it over the last 6 years, it has been my main interest. I know what i'm doing.
i have a few batches of DMT, pure white, yellow and goo, all these are from different extraction methods and have all been consistent over my time using them.
i have had other people test my DMT and it worked fine for everyone else.
i have even gone to the extent of having people timing me on my breath holding to make sure i'm not exhaling early, i am not.

i have used white, very yellow and goo with no difference in loss of effect. i have used all these in a bong with infused herb, and in a properly set up GVG with good technique, each time with both methods there is no difference in loss of effect.

i'm not scared of DMT, 90% of my experiences have been rainbows and dancing mice with epic doses of pure bliss, i am very very comfortable in the psychedelic state to the point my other psychedelic using friends think i'm a freak, i don't think this is fear based.

I am open to any explanation which explains why the effects have seriously diminished, i have no attachment to any way of thinking about this stuff. i have tried hard to eliminate as many factors as i can, all i am left with is either some kind of long term tollerance that has devleoped for some reason, or the fact that there are a few outstanding life changes that have been made known to me during my experiences but that have not yet been addressed. A science vs woo situation.
My usage has been semi consistant, and except the very beginning, it has not been excessive, which leads me to think that tolllerance isnt the issue. So i am left with the woo explanation, I am currently mopping up the final life changes and will revisit the Magic when they are fixed to see if i am able to regain the glory.

I think that not getting enough in your system is often the main reason people are unable to get a full on experience, the amount of times people join this forum and say they cant breakthrough using a crack pipe but refuse to believe there pipe is the reason is pretty funny. But i dont think not getting enough in your system really applies to people with a decent history of effective use. How can my ROA work fine for years and then suddenly start to fail for no reason?, even with a doubled dose.

so how do you think the loss of effect has come about?

Here, I just said what again?

Well said. I appreciate your suggestion and agree. Though, I have not been offended nor will I be, nor will I take anything personally. Thank you for your energy Aum_Shanti.