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your thoughts on supplements Options
 
jiva
#1 Posted : 2/25/2017 1:33:20 PM

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hi everyone,

if have been looking into a lot of different supplements lately.
I wonder what you are thinking about them.
do you use supplements like 5htp, spirulina and what ever is out there?


i find it quite hard to find any reliable source of information on what supplement can actually have any real benefits for me.
 

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entheogenic-gnosis
#2 Posted : 2/25/2017 2:30:46 PM
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the FDA does not "approve" most of these supplements, which means making claims about their benefits can be tricky.

I am a vegetarian, nearly vegan, I also have had issues with chronic nausea and poor appitite, and while my nausea and appetite issues are quite effectively treated with medical cannabis, I still find it difficult to obtain my needed values of protein, calories, carbs, and essential amino acids, specially as a vegetarian, as a result I consume protein powders which contain high quantities of carbs and calories as well as all my needed amino acids, vitamins, and minerals...

I'm not sure if this counts as "supplements" as it is just supplementing basic nutrition missing from my daily diet.

5-HTP is found naturally in your body, when your body is producing serotonin it metabolically adds a hydroxy grouping to the tryptophan molecule, giving 5-hydroxy-tryptophan.
I have consumed this as a supplement before and did not like it, it caused a "butterflies" in my stomach and anxiety, as well as nausea and disturbed sleep that evening, however this was a single attempt with the supplement, and since I have not returned this is the limit of my experience here...

I've taken melatonin, which likley does have a biochemical effect, and may help with circadian rhythms, and things of this nature, however it's effect is not really noticeable...

TIHKAL gives further insight:

Quote:

MELATONIN
DOSAGE : 1 - 10 mg, orally

DURATION : a few hours

QUALITATIVE COMMENTS : (with 2.5 mg, orally) "I took one tablet sub-lingually just before I lay down to sleep, and I slept very well. I was not tired the next day."

(with 5 mg, orally) "I cannot distinguish it from placebo."

(with 10 mg, orally) "For over a month I would take 10 milligrams every night, or five or 2.5 milligrams. More tens than 2.5's. I slept well and then I stopped it all, and still had no trouble sleeping. Why waste the money?"

-shulgin TIHKAL

MELATONIN
Quote:
EXTENSIONS AND COMMENTARY : This is a difficult drug to try to determine the active level. It is late. You want to sleep. You take a tab of melatonin and you sleep well. Or you don't take a tab of melatonin and still you sleep well. Or perhaps you sleep badly -- what connection can be drawn from the melatonin usage? The end-point of these studies is not the enhancement of consciousness but the loss of consciousness. I truly cannot say what the active level might be, because I do not know what positive experience might be expressed with an active level. In my notes is a report of a person who took 80 milligrams, orally. "Apparently I drifted quite quickly and smoothly into sleep, which was sound and which felt natural. On awakening, both my mood and performance seemed enhanced over my usual state." Is that a positive response? Melatonin has been espoused as a cure for jet-lag. But when I try to record the doses and times and effects, there is quite a bit of looseness. It is being sold in tablets (sometimes for sublingual use, why, I do not know) at dosage units from 300 micrograms to 10 milligrams. I know of one very modest i.v. trial (with 25 micrograms, at 0.10 micrograms / minute). "No subjective effects were noted."

Melatonin is found in many areas of many animals. It is involved in the skin coloration of amphibians, and in the thermal or motor regulation in some higher animals. Its major regulatory role is in response to light and, in man, is the major hormone produced by the pineal gland. This popular gland in the brain (incidentally the only unpaired site in the brain) has long been the darling of the new-age set as it is the so-called third eye. Its primary hormone, melatonin, has been the subject of many studies related to brain function. It has effects on other brain bodies that are themselves involved in hormone secretion. It has been implicated in behavioral and emotional changes in man, including anxiety, seasonal depression, and delayed sleep-phase syndrome (DSPS, with a delay in getting to sleep, and delay in coming awake). Its function is strongly affected by exposure to light, and it has been referred to as the body's hormone of darkness. And there is no question but that the biochemistry of the brain allows it to know what time of day it is. Studies with the pineal in the rat have shown that the enzymatic activity needed to run the acetylation reaction (using N-acetyltransferase, which produces melatonin from its original serotonin precursor) is 45 times more active at 10:00 PM than it is at 10:00 AM.

There has been no satisfactory pharmacology ascribed to melatonin. At low dosages it certainly decreases sleep latency. It is not a sedative at the low milligram levels (which achieves blood levels in the physiological range) but rather is a factor that might guard the user from the disruptions known as jet-lag, which is certainly a close cousin to the DSPS. Here the dosages usually explored are in the 2 to 10 milligram range. It is invariably offered as a dietary supplement rather than a sleep aid (which would be a medical claim) but a side-effect that the user is warned against is drowsiness. One popular brand I know of is available in 2.5 milligram tablets recommended for sub-lingual use. I inquired of them to learn what studies were available that indicated any virtue the sublingual route might have over direct oral use, and I learned nothing. Just a few days ago I was shown a fascinating sham offering in the OTC world. Alice brought home from the local branch of a national chain drug store a container containing 120 tablets that contained 300 micrograms each. The label said, "University Tested Strength" and "Preferred Dosage." The recommendation was for the user to take from one to three tablets (still less than a milligram). This is an example of drug-abuse at the corporate level. At relatively large dosages (75-80 milligrams) it appears to produce an increase in total sleep, along with a decrease in daytime sleepiness. This is all without hangover. It appears to be a sleep catalyst at modest levels, and a soporific at higher levels, where it can be administered chronically (75 mg/day) for a couple of weeks. with satisfactory effects. There is a paucity of reports at intermediate dosage levels. Whatever the effective dosage might be, the sales of melatonin are truly booming in the health food stores. Genzyme, a major manufacturer of melatonin, estimates that 20 million people in the United States bought melatonin for the first time in 1995, and it places the retail sales at between $200 million and $350 million per year.


-shulgin;TIHKAL


-eg
 
Aum_Shanti
#3 Posted : 2/25/2017 2:56:09 PM
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I also tried 5-HTP once for some time. And for me it was really a mood lifter and I felt more alert.

But then I stopped, as I read that it builds up tolerance for trypts.

I also tried Melatonin a few times (10mg pills) and didn't experience anything special.
I claim not that this is the truth. As this is just what got manifested into my mind at the current position in time on this physical plane. So please feel not offended by anything I say.
 
dreamer042
#4 Posted : 2/25/2017 4:55:13 PM

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There are a handful of supplements that are pretty much vital, as no matter how good or bad their diet, most people seem to be deficient in them.

The biggest one is probably Vitamin D. (1,2,3,4)

Omega 3 fatty acids are also pretty important to ensure you are ingesting in adequate amounts, especially for people that don't eat fish or grassfed/wild meats. Indeed there is evidence that deficiency is quite common in the United States. (1,2)

B-12 is the other big one that is often lacking or being inadequately supplied in many peoples diets, this is another one that is very important for vegetarians/vegans. (1,2,3,4,5,6,7)

Bancopuma does a great job breaking down how our artificial light and screen staring lifestyle is creating melatonin deficiencies in an article in the Nexian.

Magnesium is another one to look out for inadequate supply from diet, but full on deficiency is not that common. Vitamin K is one to to look into as well, especially if you are not eating lots of dark leafy greens every day (like you should be). Iodine is one that's often overlooked (eat your sea weeds). Calcium, Iron, and Vitamin A are other deficiencies often encountered, though to a lesser degree.

We live in a wonderful age of modern medicine where we can get nutrient levels in our blood checked and find out where where our personal diets are lacking and what supplementation is most important for us as individuals.

I don't consider spirulina a supplement so much as a superfood, I do take it almost daily as it's an amazing highly bio-available source of nutrition.

I am not a big fan of 5-HTP supplementation, as the serotonin boost is incredibly short lived and may actually have the effect of downregulating the receptors if supplemented frequently and over the long term. An adequate diet should provide enough precursors for endogenous serotonin synthesis, and in cases of truly low serotonin levels, herbs that will upregulate serotonin receptors (such as harmalas or saint johns wort) would be be a more sustainable and effective choice for supplementation (if necessary after ensuring proper diet).

Edit: To summarize, the top supplements I would recommend most people take daily are:
A high quality multivitamin
Vitamin D3
Fish/Algae Oil
Vitamin B-12 (or a B complex high in B-12)
Melatonin
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

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entheogenic-gnosis
#5 Posted : 3/1/2017 8:12:25 PM
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Would probiotics be considered supplements?

I do not consume soda or energy drinks, or anything that contains caffeine, but consume a good deal of kombucha. The kombucha I consume comes in soda flavors, so it will be nearly identical to drinking a doctor pepper or a root-beer as far as flavor is concerned, and flavor is important here as most kombucha taste like carbonated acetic acid...

I have not researched the purported benefits to kombucha or other probiotics, but have been told they are "good for you", if anyone can direct me to a good source of information on the matter it would be much appreciated.

-eg
 
dreamer042
#6 Posted : 3/1/2017 9:44:36 PM

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entheogenic-gnosis wrote:
Would probiotics be considered supplements?

I do not consume soda or energy drinks, or anything that contains caffeine, but consume a good deal of kombucha. The kombucha I consume comes in soda flavors, so it will be nearly identical to drinking a doctor pepper or a root-beer as far as flavor is concerned, and flavor is important here as most kombucha taste like carbonated acetic acid...

I have not researched the purported benefits to kombucha or other probiotics, but have been told they are "good for you", if anyone can direct me to a good source of information on the matter it would be much appreciated.

-eg

That one is a bit tricky. I'd say if you are taking potent probiotic capsules/acidophilus/etc that would probably fall in the realm of a supplement. This would be contrary to dietary sources such as kombucha/jun, yogurt/kefir, kraut/kim chi, etc. That's just personally where I'd draw the dividing line, others might draw it differently.

There isn't really a lot of research on kombucha, and there are a lot of unsubstantiated health claims out there. However, we do know that the probiotics present do have heath benefits, as do tea and fruit juice, so saying kombucha is indeed "good for you" isn't too large of a step. Other sources of probiotics such as yogurt, ginger beer, krauts, and the like have undergone a lot of research and do have substantiated health benefits, so extrapolating those results to kombucha is fairly reasonable.

I would def recommend eating fermented/probiotic foods daily in addition to the above supplements, and if you have poor gut health/digestion supplementation of more potent sources is certainly worth looking into. Personally, I usually make a ginger beer "bug" and use that for the secondary ferment in my Jun and Kombucha to get the best of both worlds, I also eat a lot of kraut/kim chi and all manner of fermented veggies.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily...

Visual diagram for the administration of dimethyltryptamine

Visual diagram for the administration of ayahuasca
 
Asher7
#7 Posted : 3/1/2017 9:57:32 PM

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Just a fair warning on that melatonin. There seems to be a small percentage of the population (I'm one of them) that gets really intense and bizzare dreams from it. I used to really enjoy chasing my dreams with xhosa, calea etc. and have that alc./benzo detox experience so I know my way around strange, amazing and sometimes down right frightening dreams and I'll say the dreams melatonin can influence in a small few are some of the strangest, out of nowhere dreams I've had. They had their own particular style and were about a 6-7 on the lucid scale.

If you're into that thing and are one of the few who get that result it can be pretty interesting (although far from "pleasant" in my experience) to toy around with. I just thought I'd throw that out there because I don't hear it mentioned often and would hate to have someone get a wacked out dream thrown at them without warning.

The whole history behind melatonin is pretty interesting. If you've never read into it check it out, it's a quick read.
 
DmnStr8
#8 Posted : 3/1/2017 11:49:22 PM

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I take a multi-vitamin, niacin, vitamin b-12, and fish oil daily. Green tea with honey a couple times a day. I feel good!

"In the universe there is an immeasurable, indescribable force which shamans call intent, and absolutely everything that exists in the entire cosmos is attached to intent by a connecting link." ~Carlos Castaneda
 
downwardsfromzero
#9 Posted : 3/2/2017 1:45:32 AM

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IME the main benefit to be had from supplements is they help increase your water intake if you're chugging a dozen pills three times daily.




โ€œThere is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
โ€• Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
ganesh
#10 Posted : 3/2/2017 10:16:03 AM

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Supplements are more for Vegans, and people who exercise hard, or who have nutritional deficiencies in their diet.

A good diet is enough.
More imaginative mutterings of nonsense from the old elephant!
 
Asher7
#11 Posted : 3/2/2017 7:23:37 PM

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I was at work and ran across some fish oil capsules that had an added "no burp formula". My first thought was they should add that to beer. Of course doing that might cause a brother to explode, but it was at face value a good idea to me.
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#12 Posted : 3/7/2017 2:42:20 PM
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ganesh wrote:
Supplements are more for Vegans, and people who exercise hard, or who have nutritional deficiencies in their diet.

A good diet is enough.


Sadly, most people have terrible eating habits.

I doubt that most are getting their needed vitamins, minerals, and essential amino acids through their regular diet.

In my case, I'm a vegetarian, and I have issues with chronic nausea and poor appetite, so obtaining proper caloric intake as well as protein and carbs can be a challenge, so I need protein with high calories and carbs, I also make sure this protein includes essential amino acids, vitamins, and minerals...and while I don't intentionally "work-out", my physical activities through my daily routine combined with these protein powders causes a build up of muscle, which is a tolerable side effect.



Do you guys remember the issue involving beta-methyl-phenethylamine in acacia rigidula containing supplements?

...some of these supplements can contain some pretty strange things...



I drink "yogi tea", which are herbal teas containing a number of herbs and supplement similar compounds, some are specified for sleep, some for stress, some for detox and so on, I guess I consider these teas supplements...

-eg

 
 
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