Hi Nexus members, long time reader 1st time poster.

I have a question about rectal administration of Syrian Rue tea. Would rectal administration of Syrian Rue tea allow for full monoamine oxidase A inhibition in the gut and allow for a MHRB tea to be orally active?

I have read some anecdotal information in this post https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/d...aspx?g=posts&t=24820 about rectal MAOI and DMT, but not rectal administration of MAOI then oral administration of DMT containing material.

The reasoning behind this route of administration is to work around some of the nausea and physical effects from drinking a simple Syrian Rue tea.

If you're going to the trouble of plugging your harmalas then surely it would make sense to chuck a bit of DMT in at the same time? (EDIT: OK, it seems DMT is rather less well absorbed from the rectum, while harmalas are more active via rectal absorption.) Also it might make more sense to purify your harmala alkaloids as there are a number of other alkaloids in the Syrian rue tea that we might consider less desirable.

In all likelihood you'll experience just as much nausea from the DMT so as a means of avoiding nausea it might not be the best. Lemon balm would be more useful.

In the interest of science, if you were to try this it would at least provide an interesting data point. Are you "comfortable with using a rectal syringe"?

Should work fine, but might not fully inhibit MAO in the stomach as it will be delivered to the stomach via the bloodstream rather than flooding the stomach directly with MAOI. If you try this, give it 30 minutes for the MAOI to reach the stomach and inhibit the enzymes before consuming DMT.

My advise on this ROA would be since you are already pursuing rectal administration, just take them together all rectally. This way, there is no guess work. Or you might wait 5-10 minutes after the MAOI to insert the DMT. To prevent misfires, always use an enema to clean the walls of the colon and never plug dry.

There are a few members here that have stated that DMT does not cause nausea. I find this to be very untrue. Many sources state that DMT is a 5-HT3 agonist just as serotonin is. This receptor is largely responsible for nausea and vomiting. My experience with harmine alone provides only mild to moderate nausea whereas the addition of DMT precipitates the "purge" and much more intense nausea.

This only applies to oral DMT. I get zero nausea from vaporized DMT, and only a very subtle nausea from insufflated which I attribute to some of the drip reaching my stomach. These 5-HT3 receptors are only present in the digestive system and are very pronounced in the stomach and small intestines. My research shows that the large intestines do contain 5-HT3 receptors, but in much smaller quantities. So, some nausea may occur but much less than by stomach.

You both are right about the DMT being the principle cause of the nausea with the 5-HT3 receptor action in causes. I guess taking the MAOI orally, and pre-dose ginger and pepto-bismol/lemon balm to manage nausea is the best bet.

Like you said downwards, there are other less desirable alkaloids in the Syrian rue tea, so going through the stomach is safer if no extraction is done, as the liver will clean up some of the undesirable alkaloids before it enters general circulation.

Thanks for the advice, safe journeys.

For me, it's always been the Rue/Harmalas that causes the nausea/vomiting, as i've had Mimosa and Acacia with Moclobemide and didn't have any nausea/vomiting. The Harmalas are purgatives, and in a high enough dosage will no doubt cause nausea/vomiting.

I have noticed that taking Rue/Harmalas by itself won't produce as much nausea/vomiting as it does with DMT in the mix, but even Rue/Harmalas on it's own will cause nausea/vomiting in a high enough dosage.

The key to working with the Harmalas without much nausea/vomiting, is by building up it's reverse tolerance, which does away with nausea, vomiting, body load and motor function impairment, and allows you to handle stronger dosages more easily.

Back when i used to take Rue and Mimosa/Acacia pretty regularly, for about the first couple weeks or so i'd have nausea/vomiting and such, but after that, once the reverse tolerance built up enough, the nausea/vomiting went away and i was able to hold it all down from then on and have a full experience.

The tannins in the Mimosa or Acacia root typically contribute to nausea and increases chances of vomiting, but DMT itself i don't think activates the 5-HT3 receptor, though i could be wrong, i'm not sure. I do know it and other Psychedelics get the gut's motility going forwards though and makes me have to go to the bathroom, which in some cases can feel similar to nausea if you're backed up or something imo. But it's most definitely the Harmalas that cause the nausea/vomiting, i remember taking a heavy dosage of purified Harmala extract one time and it gave me pretty horrible/painful stomach contractions and made me vomit like 6 times lol, all without the DMT in the mix.

And i have noticed that when DMT is added to the Harmalas it does cause more nausea/vomiting than Harmalas on it's own, but it's definitely the Harmalas that cause the nausea/vomiting while the tannins in the Mimosa or Acacia root seem to contribute to and increase nausea, and plus because DMT gets the gut's motility moving forward that could also contribute to nausea. Like i said, i've had Mimosa and Acacia with Moclobemide, and it didn't give me any nausea aside from some tannins though cleaner teas gave me no nausea, and i get some cholinergic-feeling motion sickness a time or two but definitely no forceful vomiting using the Moclobemide unlike with the Harmalas.

The Harmala reverse tolerance is the way to go imo, it's the best way to get around the nausea/vomiting. One can also add 6 drops or so of Lemon EO a day while taking the Harmalas to block out the nausea/vomiting while trying to build up the reverse tolerance, that's how i did it this last time, but idk how it'd go with DMT in the mix like if it would alter anything or something, but that's why i'd recommend just taking the Harmalas, build up the reverse tolerance, and then add DMT to the mix. Using the Lemon EO oil can help while building up the reverse tolerance, until you don't need it anymore.

I guess I really can't speak to rue. I have only ever had harmine HCl and caapi vine which is also mostly harmine with a bit of THH. I've never had any significant dose of harmaline. But from my dose of 250mg harmine alone, I would say that it would take at least a gram to get me to puke and probably a bit more. I have a pretty solid stomach normally and this is pretty much in line with what I would expect. But if I lower the dose to 200, and add in DMT the nausea is on a completely different level.

We may never know how much the DMT is responsible for nausea from oral ROA. To do so, we would need an MAOI that is not active on the 5-HT3 receptors. It turns out that Moclobemide is a 5-HT3 antagonist so not only does it have the effect of removing the harmala intoxication and nausea, but of adding the effect of a potent anti-nausea medication.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14647397

Actually, it says "Moclobemide and carbamazepine had no effect on the serotonin-induced cation current."

I take that as Moclobemide doesn't affect 5-HT3, and as far as i know it doesn't, as you are the first i've heard of saying Moclobemide could antagonize 5-HT3, i've never noticed that effect from Moclobemide, and as far as i've come to understand, Moclobemide has no other actions except for reversible MAO-A inhibition. And don't get me wrong, i've still had nausea and vomiting when using Moclobemide, but the nausea was due to the tannins in the Mimosa and Acacia root (which wasn't present with egg white cleansed teas btw) and the vomiting was either due to some sort of cholinergic-related motion sickness i think or too strong of a DMT dosage since when i get too overwhelmed i vomit. But Moclobemide itself doesn't cause any nausea or vomiting and doesn't antagonize the 5-HT3 receptor.

Also, i tried mixing Ondansetron (Zofran) with Rue and Mimosa a few times, and it severely altered the experience so i never experimented with it any further, though it could've been due to taking too much Zofran since it's metabolized by CYP2D6 and CYP1A2 which Harmalas inhibit.

If you can find a source that directly states Moclobemide as being a 5-HT3 receptor antagonist i'll give it a look, because that would be interesting if that were true, but i'd think if it were true they would've investigated it for that purpose or would have some info about it, even though Moclobemide is pretty well known about apparently. I've done some google searching but didn't really come up with anything saying it's a 5-HT3 antagonist.

Extrapolating from 250 to 1000 is prone to fail as things are not linear/proportional.

* * *

Since harmalas in general are good in cleaning/flushing the bowels (even with oral ROA), keeping that liquid in the butt for like 30 mins can be very challenging, I know and that was with extract, not full tea, and in a 1 to 2 ml volume, still a challenge to keep it in.

But I propose to think the other way around:
since spice can turbo-up the harmala stomach nausea, then only take the harmalas oral. Wait until they kick in, could be an hour easily, feel then working on you. Then rectal only the spice dissolved in just some minimal drops of vinegar (2 to 3), add some drops of water, you will be amazed that it all fits in just a 1 ml needles syringe. It's a proven path

This kind of syringe needs just a little pommade and one doesn't feel taxing at all, it's diameter so narrow it's hardly noticed even if you use the full length to get past the sphincter.
The come up is between vaped and oral, as is the duration.

Happy trails, long time since I tried it though.


PS: I've always wondered why there's little culture in oral harmalas + vaping after they harmalas kicked in. There's so much focus on changa, maybe because it's so straightforward.

I know why there is little culture for anal harmalas...

Sorry about the bad info on Moclobemide. I shouldn't do research while on THC and hydrocodone. I completely misread that.

And yea, I hear what you are saying about harmalas being non-linear. Lets just say that it would take quite a bit more to get me to puke. with the 250mg harmine, I could feel just a touch of motion sickness which I do suffer from and also a touch of GI discomfort. This would have been comparable to eating some Taco Bell and riding in the passenger seat of a very safe driver for 30 minutes. If I had taken enough harmine to make me puke, however much that might be, I would have also been so intoxicated as to be completely immobile, maybe crawling on hands and knees at best.
Now, 200mg harmine + 75mg DMT orally would have been comparable nausea to eating 5lbs./2kilos of fried fish and riding a 5G roller coaster. After the purge, then maybe half the nausea which is still far more than harmine alone.

I seriously wish I could get my hands on some Moclobemide to test it out, but in the US it is sort of in drug purgatory. It is not FDA approved and already has a generic, so very unlikely that it will ever be approved since that is a very expensive process. And it's not exactly a street drug or ethnobotanical. If it is true that DMT doesn't cause nausea, then it is working as a sort of exponential nausea amplifier at least for me.

Link removed from public discussion.

I set up an account with them over a month ago and it still says approval pending.
I have zero experience with online pharmacies.

Either email them and ask them to approve your account, or make a new one and still email them asking to approve your account.

I read somewhere it's best to email them to let them know you created an account, and that's what i did and was able to order.

There's a lot of connotations to it, true. And bad news also like burning feelings and whatever people use for tools and how they do it. If you look at how much effort people make to learn to vape properly?
Many halfway-the-learning-curve accounts paint the picture about rectal ROA. If done right, plugging a medical suppository is much more of a deal.

I would not choose rectal ROA for the sake of it, neither vape or oral actually. It's the very particular total curve that makes the difference/decision.
It's a distinct experience (not referring to the plugging act here), right between oral and vape, and earns credits in the arsenal of possibilities at hand.

But yes harmalas are prone to come out, that's why I suggested to take those orally in advance.

I am considering mixing Ondansetron with harmine and DMT at some point in the future, so I'm curious as to what dosage you are talking about here. My intentions are to temporarily shut down the 5-HT3 receptors much the same way that harmine temporarily shuts down the MAO enzymes. It just gets in the way of having any enjoyment from the experience and pulling anything meaningful from it.

^Do not underestimate the effects of blocking CYP metabolism!

I think it was 4mgs, or 8mgs if i remember correctly. Either way, might wanna start with a quarter or half of a tablet, and see how that goes. I didn't notice any negative reactions from taking too much Zofran, but i could definitely tell i took too much. An example would be like the Tizanidine i take for sleep, if i take Rue sometime beforehand, it inhibits CYP1A2 and where i'd usually need 2 tablets for a full effect, the Rue makes me only need a half of a tablet. So i'd say try to start low on the Zofran because it could be potentiated quite a bit, and then work your way up with it until you find the right dosage for you.

tbh i think in the whole process the most effort is extracting the dmt or harmalas.. vaping it properly isnt the hardest part.

But you can make it very hard and uncomfortable getting a substance in to your bloodstream. This reminds me of south park episode "The Entity"..

What kind of effects did you get from the Ondansetron that were different than regular ayahuasca/pharmahuasca? I have only ever taken it alone or with opiates and the only observable effects are suppression of nausea and near elimination of gag reflex. As well as mixing with pharmahuasca, I'm also considering mixing with Kambo which has a horribly gut wrenching purge.

The last time I took it, I brushed my teeth afterward and noticed that the normal pre-gag that I get while brushing the tongue was completely gone. Afterward out of curiosity, I shoved the back of the brush into my throat and was amazed at how deep I had to go to get a minimal gag. It makes me wonder how many people in porn use it for deep throating...

This seems to me like a polar opposite to the OP!