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RottenMushroom
#1 Posted : 1/15/2017 2:15:51 PM

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Joined: 15-Jan-2017
Last visit: 29-Jan-2017
Hello,

I am very glad I could join the community, and I wanted to thank all the people contributing to it.
My story is not too complicated, yet I think it is quite unusual due to the fact psychedelics have been in my life since childhood- I didn't try any before I was about 17 though(still young and stupid).
It all started with my brother. He was listening to this weird techno-like music, psytrance. So when I was about 7-8 I knew it was about drugs. Then when I was 13 I investigated that matter a bit and I fall in love with psytrance and learning about drugs. Years were passing, and I was learning a lot about drugs and science. I knew the possible outcomes of using drugs- positive and negative. I smoked my first joint at the age of 17. A few years later I was exploring many different drugs, yet never got dependent on even one. My psychedelic story started with 25C-NBOMe... not a glorious start... But I spent hours for research before I took it. Since then I tried a few other psychedelics and all I can say is: they changed me, for better. Now I'm in love with DMT. I tried it just few times and never got full breakthrough, but I think it was worth it.

Cut to the chase:

I've been reading the DMT-Nexus forum for quite some time and I always had been finding answers to my questions, up until now.

SWIM wants to do an extraction of DMT from MHRB using A/B tech. He's a bit of a chemist, but not a real one. The thing is he can't find pure naptha anywhere around. All he finds is impure lighter fluid which leaves residue after evaporation. Last time he did the extraction he had to do a lot more work to get the crystals pure, and they still weren't perfect.
So he thought about distilling that lighter fluid, to purify it, like chemists do with their solvents. He read that flash point of naptha is about 4*C which is very low and therefore he thinks that bringing it to a boil can be dangerous. That's why he's got an idea of distilling it using an oil bath (not to bring the flask to higher temperature than needed), a fractionating column and a condenser and a vacuum pump to get rid of oxygen from the system as well as lowering the boiling point. The system with less oxygen is less likely to ignite, so it would be safer. The vacuum he can get of his pump is about -25 inHg which is not much, but would make a big difference. He never read about doing this, so he's not sure if it's safe. And the last thing he wants it half a liter of boiling naphta exploding inside a flask and burning the house down.
Note: he checked how to put naptha fire down, and found out it's not so easy... so quantity of about half a liter would make a lot a damage.

TL;DR: Can you distill lighter fluid?

Thank you
Regards
 

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downwardsfromzero
#2 Posted : 1/15/2017 6:51:56 PM

Boundary condition

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Welcome.

Yes, you can distil lighter fluid. The vacuum pump is unnecessary but if you've got one, what the heck. Just be aware that bumping - sudden, violent boiling - is always much worse when distilling under vacuum. If you have not done distillation before, I would recommend distilling some water first to gain experience.

Distilling flammable solvents is a risky business, I would suggest obtaining an electrothermal heating mantle for round bottomed flasks. Oil baths present more of a problem with thermal inertial and can be a bit messy. Also, if a volatile liquid is dropped into the oil by accident you will get sprayed with hot oil if it is hot enough for the liquid to boil.

Most importantly: NEVER distil flammable solvents over an open flame!
Although I'm sure this must be obvious to you.

BTW, don't confuse flash point with ignition temperature. They are two different things. Look it up if necessary.

Failing all that, just keep searching for a better solvent or read through this forum a bit more to find some alternative extraction methods which don't necessarily involve naphtha. If you are wanting to gain experience of distillation, it's not too distant a step to prepare yourself some 95% ethanol, for example.


Have fun, stay safe!




“There is a way of manipulating matter and energy so as to produce what modern scientists call 'a field of force'. The field acts on the observer and puts him in a privileged position vis-à-vis the universe. From this position he has access to the realities which are ordinarily hidden from us by time and space, matter and energy. This is what we call the Great Work."
― Jacques Bergier, quoting Fulcanelli
 
RottenMushroom
#3 Posted : 1/16/2017 4:42:04 PM

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Last visit: 29-Jan-2017
Thank you for your answer downwardsfromzero.
I mentioned that SWIM knows a little something about chemistry Wink So things like basic distillation are trivial to him. He knows the difference between flash point and ignition point as well as what bumping is. He got some experience with distilling ethanol for more specified uses- absolute ethanol (~100%). And he's got some equipment needed to do that. He can obtain some chloroform or ether if needed. He just never distilled as volatile solvent as naptha or chloroform/ether and thus he's not sure about safety of it.

The apparatus he wants to use:
Magnetic Stirrer Hotplate
Oil (water?) bath with stirring
Round bottom flask with naptha and boiling stones inside
Fractionating column
Thermometer
Condenser
collection flask with vacuum adapter
Vacuum pump

The question is: Will it blow up?
The system should be quite closed with no ignition source inside, so it shouldn't.
But SWIM wants to make sure, just for safety reasons. He will read about distilling volatile solvents like ether to gain some more knowledge about the subject. But he hasn't found any information about distilling naptha in such conditions, hence his doubts.
 
Incal
#4 Posted : 1/16/2017 7:14:20 PM
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Last visit: 19-Feb-2024
Location: Ireland
If the question is "will it blow up?" don't even try outside of proper lab conditions! Just let things evaporate, there is no rush!

Always nice to hear of someone exposed to "weird sounding techno". I did not get it either until I took an E and now my life is devoted to that music. Oh and welcome Rottenmushroom.
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#5 Posted : 1/17/2017 3:25:37 PM
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Welcome.

The whole "swim" thing is not a necessity on this site, I personally feel that it needlessly complicates posts, while providing you little to no real legal protection, if it's something that you like, by all means, use it as much as you want, but keep in mind that it is not required.

So what level of chemistry education do you have where you don't consider yourself a "real" chemist?

Sorry, I did not mean to be rude, it just sounded funny to me, I mean, I hope you did not go to school to study "fake" chemistry...

Sorry, I'm just having some fun.

Any way, I have a background in chemistry, and am always happy to welcome others with similar interests.

-eg
 
RottenMushroom
#6 Posted : 1/26/2017 6:30:02 PM

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SWIM has read more about the subject and tried distilling lighter fluid over.
He couldn't bring it to a boil using his cheap hotplate- the maximum temperature he could achieve using an oil bath (~500ml of mineral oil) was 150*C and it was not enough to bring the naptha to boil... however under reduces pressure naptha boiled violently at about 120*C @ -15inHg and he managed to distill it. But it turned out that boiling naptha dissolved the grease he used Sad So now he has a flask with highly contaminated lighter fluid, which leaves even more reside than before. He wants to try doing this again, this time without any grease. But if there is no grease he won't be able to apply vacuum, and there is a risk of joints getting frozen.
Can he use some PTFE tape to prevent joints from getting frozen?

Quote:
So what level of chemistry education do you have where you don't consider yourself a "real" chemist?

Well, I don't have any chemistry related education. I just have read a few chemistry books. And I don't have any lab experience.

Quote:
Just let things evaporate, there is no rush!

That's the thing- SWIM can't let it evaporate because it will leave crystals covered in goo. He wants to purify the naptha so that it leaves no goo when it evaporates. He's in no rush, but he minds the quality of the crystals.
 
ducdevil
#7 Posted : 1/26/2017 6:32:32 PM

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Last visit: 20-May-2023
Welcome to the community!

now, please stop "SWIMming" Big grin
 
RottenMushroom
#8 Posted : 1/29/2017 6:01:02 PM

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Last visit: 29-Jan-2017
SUCCESS

It is possible to purify lighter fluid so that it leaves no residue upon evaporation.
It takes a bit of work and commitment, but it works.
After spending a few days working of this stuff I can say that the boiling point of naptha (lighter fluid) is 130-135*C at normal pressure (no vacuum), and that it boils VERY violently once it starts boiling.
I have used PTFE tape to make rings which I then put on the male connectors of the joints.

Now I have different problem though. Some of my equipment is covered in the grease from my first try, and I have no other solvent that can dissolve it apart from boiling naptha... I'll try to clean it by running the whole thing with fresh naptha a few times, but I doubt it will clean everything.
 
syberdelic
#9 Posted : 1/29/2017 6:49:51 PM

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Two suggestions;
Try to freeze precipitate (re-x) rather than evaporating solvents. This will give you cleaner product and avoids the many negatives of evaporating solvents. You will still have to evaporate some solvent but about 1000x less.
When distilling organic solvents, take it slow. Turn the heat down so that you are just barely at a boil. This way you are safer and less likely to carry over impurities that are also volatile. Working in small batches is also a great way to increase safety.
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#10 Posted : 1/30/2017 2:31:11 PM
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I was just having some fun. Sometimes You hear people say "I'm not a real chemist", and it always makes me think "so you study and preform "fake" chemistry?"

Any way, sorry about that.


THIS PDF outlines proper cleaning of laboratory glassware...

What equipment/set-up are you using?

You are not using Krytox Fluorinated Grease are you?

Below should answer some of your questions...
Quote:
•Degrease your glassware’s ground glass joints by wiping them with a paper towel soaked in a small amount of ether, acetone or other solvent (CAUTION! wear appropriate gloves and minimize your exposure to the vapors).

•Place the glassware in a warm concentrated aqueous solution of Alconox, or other detergent, and let sit for several minutes.

•Scrub. Be sure that your brush is in good shape before scrubbing (not rusty, bristles are not matted down); replace it if necessary.

•Rinse thoroughly with tap water and give a final rinse with DI water.

The water will sheet cleanly off the glass, if it is quantitatively clean. If water does not sheet off the glass, and you desire the glassware to be quantitatively clean, first repeat the above soaking and scrubbing steps. If, after a second cleaning, bits of solid still adhere to the glass, or if there is clearly a greasy residue on the glass, more aggressive action must be taken.

http://www1.udel.edu/che...ssShop/GlasswareCare.htm


-eg
 
 
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