Last time I drank Daime Aya, I received the message that I was to begin exploring Oral/Buccal administration of Salvia......

The bulk of the message was this....

We gave you (humans) abundance (ayahuasca) to deal with mushroom scarcity.....

We then gifted you a new spirit which is both abundant and whole within itself (salvia).....

It was as if I was being told that at the upper dosages, mushrooms take one to the same place aya does, but msuhrooms need to be found and in often small quantitities, and ayahausca required long brewing hours and takes long times to grow.....Their message was that Salvia Divinorum was a far more advanced, evolution of both.......

This is just what I heard.....not my personal insight.

Now...

Could you fine people help me with my mission of sourcing a cutting or grow Diviner's Sage plant (not illegal, correct?)?

It's hugely appreciate it.

<<<We gave you (humans) abundance (ayahuasca) to deal with mushroom scarcity.....>>>

Ayahuasca has nothing to do with mushrooms, and there is hardly a "mushroom scarcity" on planet Earth.

<<<We then gifted you a new spirit which is both abundant and whole within itself (salvia).....>>>

Do you really belive the nonsense your mind tells you?

<<<Their message was that Salvia Divinorum was a far more advanced, evolution of both.......>>>

Salvia has nothing to do with ayahuasca or mushrooms and cannot be compared with either one in this manner.

<<<Could you fine people help me with my mission of sourcing a cutting or grow Diviner's Sage plant (not illegal, correct?)?>>>

There is a thing called "google" that makes it easy to find whatever you're looking for. And it's legality depends on where you live (also very easy to determine through google)

Interesting insights. While I gotta admit mushrooms don't seem in any way scarce to me, they are seasonal, and less abundant in some places than in others. In any case it sounds like you are being called to work with the shepardess.

I'd recommend checking out our sister site Share the Seeds as a good resource to find a cutting. You have to register and introduce yourself to access the trade sections over there, and be sure to use a different name than your nexus login. It's also a fantastic resource for cultivation topics/questions in general. Give it a look.

You can also find multiple vendors selling cuttings via a quick google search. Erowid keeps a fairly accurate list of the legal status of Salvia divinorum around the world, but it still might be a good idea to research the local laws specific to your location.

Salvia is a very rewarding plant to grow and I'm sure you'll enjoy caring for one.

Now beam me up to Zeta Reticuli!

Also this..

https://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/Attitude_Page

Mushrooms aya and salvia have nothing to do with eachother? they have everything to do with eachother. Evidence of that fact is that they are all discussed here on this forum dedicated to psychedelics

I find what he said very interesting cool and useful. He did not present this as fact just said it was insight from his experience.

Oral salvia is amazing, truly so far I found it to be the best Entheogen available for me and also growing your own plants is very rewarding.

The advice to seek a cutting on sharetheseeds is good. That's how I got mine.

Thank you.....

Thank you for being a considerate, mature individual worthy of the air you breathe unlike possibly some others *cough*cough*

Hmmm that's a curious message to have received! I think the opposite situation is true, if anything. Apparently ayahuasca is being over-harvested in parts of the Amazon, and there some long term sustainability issues that need addressing, especially with the ever increasing interest in it and people using it. Psilocybe mushrooms however have benefited and continue to benefit markedly through the actions of humans on the biosphere...a few days ago I just stumbled upon a fruiting patch of Psilocybe cyanescens, and they aren't even native here (UK based). Furthermore, one can easily grow their own mushrooms in abundance (like Salvia). I do agree of the experiential overlap between mushrooms and ayahuasca. Salvia divinorum is actually really uncommon and has a highly localised distribution in the wild, but it clones easily and is well suited for being human-grown.

I too am really intrigued to explore Salvia via the oral/quid route, it sounds preferable to the smoking route to me...I have a friend who uses Salvia in the manner and it definitely sounds like something worthy of exploration. I hope you can source a cutting...happy journeys.

pehaps in the grand scheme of things aya and salvia really are more abundant than mushrooms, I think it's hard to prove either way but who would know better than he mind of nature herself. I just think it's easy to just say things, (like that mushrooms are not scarce) but that doesn't make it the truth. If I received that message in ceremony I would take it as the truth or at least consider it with some weight. At least with more weight then the words on a forum. So chin up.

Don't listen to anyone in a hurry to pick apart and deny things you say from your own experience. You are the smartest person you will ever know.

The most important advice I can give is to listen to your visions and your heart and not your mind or the words of others. Through reducing and disbelief of everything strip much magic from our experience of this life, which is as magical and amazing as we are open to comprehending.

What night did this take place? Because the night you made this post a friend and I actually were journeying with oral salvia and meditative ritual. It was an awesome experience and I cannot wait for the next one. The salvia feels so fresh so green alive and healing when used orally. It is super productive for acheiving a very enlightening trance state that's the best way I can describe it. It hits you with waves of silent knowledge

If you want more information/reception on spiritual and metaphysical aspects Try other forums too. This forum is amazing and many great and brilliant minds here but I would say at times spirituality gets shot down and the forum favors a more empirical scientific mindset. I hypothesize this is because of all the drug geeks making their own dmt
Forums.ayahuasca.com is pretty spiritual and the folks are extremely wise almost Saint like and very much up your alley with your aya work

Much love and respect

Sorry I don't buy this. There is a fair amount of delusion and illusion in the psychedelic experience, and just taking it all as gospel truth is not the path to greater knowledge or understanding, I think...it's like panning for gold. There is definitely insight and wisdom to be gained from the content of these experiences, but the key thing is sorting the valid insight from the invalid.

It's an objective fact that psilocybe mushrooms are more common than either ayahuasca or Salvia. The ayahuasca vine is native to the Amazon, and while it has spread its range out from there a little through the assistance of humans, its range expansion can not hold a candle to that achieved by psilocybe mushrooms through human actions. Salvia is actually pretty rare in the wild, being restricted to the Sierra Mazateca in the state of Oaxaca. It has done well through its relationship with humans, who propagate and it is grown in more of the world now because of that, but I wouldn't really call this range expansion.

Psilocybe mushrooms are widespread and often common in all temperate, subtropical and tropical zones of the planet. Many of them have benefted markedly through the activities of humans...Psilocybe semilanceata, the liberty cap thrives on pasture land, particularly sheep grazed pastures, and these are a man-made habitat...in central America, Psilocybe mexicana also thrives in pastures. The highly potent wood loving psilocybes Psilocybe cyanescens and P. azurescens have also expanded their ranges markedly from their native Pacific north west...a few days ago I found some P. cyanescens growing on wood chips here in the far north of the UK! Prior to human actions, these wood loving fungi occupied uncommon marginal habitats, they have done very well indeed through human actions. Coprophilic dung lovers Panaeolus species, as well as Psilocybe cubensis have expanded their ranges markedly across tropical and subtropical zones of the planet through our domestication of cattle...P. cubensis has expanded its range to the extent it isn't entirely clear where its original native range is.

So, I stand by my point, because it's true. By all means listen to the plants/fungi, but important not to believe in everything without any kind of critical thought...that is the path of the crazy I think. And objective understanding certainly has its place, and to just chuck that out of the window doesn't make much sense either. You don't need to believe in delusions in order to experience amazing things.

I'm certainly interested in exploring oral Salvia in the future. Interesting to hear your perceptions of the Aya.com forums..."saintly" is not a term I would use to describe the vibe there...on the whole I find it can be quite snooty, condescending and "holier than thou"...in my mind, the Nexus is a different league to that place and can't be beat. Just my 2 cents.

I deem these plants and their spirits as wiser beings than myself with a higher dimensional perspective than we. I do give it critical thought, and it is clear. Mushrooms are/more scarce than ayahuasca. They grow in more places, but that is not what scarcity is about. Mushroom patches come and go, while ayahuasca vines remain in the same place, and grow into huge beings with pounds and pounds of material. Especially for people before our time, it was far easier to grow a plant than it was to proliferate mushrooms. Mushrooms had to be waited for....seeked out....ayahuasca vines were just around and people knew where they were. They were large....they weren't an occasional treat. They were always available. One had to stumble upon mushrooms (during the right time of year, mind you) - this simply isn't the case with ayahuasca.

Now, Salvia has taken me to realsm that the deepest doses of ayahuasca have only just touched upon barely.....furthermore, it is a plant that grows year-round, like aya, but that unlike it, and like mushrooms, requires no alchemical processing. It is the best of both worlds. I didn't just "take it for granted" I was told it and it registered as true instantly, but because it seemed fairly obvious.....

To harvest ayahuasca in the wild, you effectively must butcher large parts of the plant in order to use it. If ayahuasca is so abundant, then why are their concerns for it being overharvested? Not so with the mushroom, where you are just harvesting the fruiting bodies of the organism. It takes a number of years for ayahuasca vine to grow to a size where it can be used...mushrooms can be produced from a single spore in weeks/months. So in this sense, mushrooms are a far more sustainable resource than ayahuasca vine. If your argument about scarcity refers to range, then Salvia divinorum is very scare indeed in the wild, far more scarce than either mushrooms or ayahuasca, being restricted to certain ravines of the Sierra Mazateca in the state of Oaxaca. If you don't mean scarce in that sense, because one can grow it themselves, well one can also easily grow mushrooms themselves, and fungi grow a lot faster than plants.

I'm definitely interested in exploring Salvia more in the future.

1. There are concerns because far fewer people grow ayahuasca than mushrooms.

2. The fungi may grow faster than salvia (salvia does grow very quickly though, but once you plant salvia plants, they keep on growing....if you have a mushroom grow box, it doesn't get bigger the older it gets.

3. Mushrooms develop tolerance quickly. Salvia exhibits reverse tolerance. This basically creates abundance. The more you use it the less you need. This is as if use of the plant increased it's abundance.

I lose patience for these kinds of exchanges. Must everything be a battle of who is right and who wrong? We're missing out on valuable discussion. We should discuss what op said not go into debates about which plant is more scarce..

And I find that to be just plain untrue that they are holier than though or condescending. I'm sure there's a few but in general they are wise patient and helpful. I would say show me an example, but I'm sure you could find one but I don't think that is truly representative of the general nature of the forum as a whole

Apologies but the lack of objective thought in your statement irked me a little. I wouldn't "just say things" in this context, my statement is simply backed up by the available evidence on the matter. Also to ignore objective evidence in favour of psychedelic insights seems a flawed approach to me. These experiences can certainly delude people, and their content can certainly be comprised of delusion and illusion. Psychedelics were investigated in the past as potential psychotogens to induce model psychosis for a reason. For sure, deep and genuine insight can be gained from these experiences, I'm not disputing that, but to just accept every little whisper from these experiences as the indisputable, gospel truth of nature or one's higher self, well this is akin to the religiously brainwashed looking to their religious texts of choice with unquestioning faith...I don't think zeal of this magnitude in either case is healthy, and a little more critical thought-insight gold panning would likely be of benefit.

Personally I resonate much more with the Nexus than the Aya.com forums, I'm sure there are some good peeps on there, but I prefer the community and mentality expressed here...I've not found anywhere surpassing the Nexus.

Bancopuma, I like your screen name

My personal opinion is that you are projecting and attaching other things to what I said. You say you are bothered by lack of objective thought. But carefully anylization what I said. I said "maybe" mushrooms are more scarce than ayahuasca, and who would know better than the mind of nature herself. What I really meant is that we don't know. To you it may seem that obviously ayahuasca is more scarce, but from another perspective certainly the opposite could be true. It depends on many variables. As does almost any "truth". To us aya may seem more scarce but from another perspective the 100 years it takes a vine to mature into a huge trunk could be a miniscule amount of time and mushrooms are more fleeting and scarce from this perspective. I was also making an attempt to sympathize with the op point of view to encourage him her to delve further into what thoughts and feelings and beliefs shaped this new understanding/belief. There is more layers than one to reality and to what I say. WhAts more important our bond with eachother as psychedelic enthusiasts or what plant is Objectively factually sterilly Coldly the actual less abundant plant.

So I said maybe mushrooms are more scarce and if the ayahuasca said so perhaps that has some weight. That's what I said. But what I did not say is " hell yeah dduuuuude anylitical thought is for the birds you should tooootally blindly accpept anything the magical vine tells you, maaaaan". You see that's the part where you projected other circumstances onto what I was saying.

You say objective evidence should not be ignored in favor of whispers from experiences. I would tend to agree, but instead of allowing me an open set of beliefs you have now put me in a box of delusion. When actually I employ critical thinking skills quite often and consider myself quite level headed and rational for a person who subscribes to mystical and majickal beliefs

If you resonate with the nexus that's great and so do I. That's why I have been a happy member here for 10 years. spiritual gurus though? I. Sorry but no. That's why I encouraged th poster to go there if he wanted. More spiritual perspective. What I did not say is nexus sucks forums.aya ftw!

You see what I am saying?

That's not to say there is anything wrong or horribly offensive about what you are saying it's all good and within the realm of discussion, I should not have said I lose petience for these exchanges. My apologies that was me doing my own projections

But we don't have enough info here to really get empirical about anything. We are not the op so we didn't see hear this vision and don't know it's exact context. Was it a tingly inkling and thoughts the op already had shaping it's way into a new revelation or did the spirit of ayahuasca or some higher conciousness really visit the op and say this? We really don't know and can't prove either way. Also despite what you say I'm not sure it can be objectively proven wich is more scarce... In my mind to do so you would need to weight all the aya vine available on earth right now and also weigh the amount of mushrooms available currently. I bet you there is more aya available right now for use if you broke it down to an amount of doses.

But I do believe mushrooms is more renewable if you are growing that is obvious and to those who grow they may seem way more abundant. But is that few oz of mushrooms your growing in your closet really making s dent on a planetary scale?

And this gold panning you speak of how do you go about it and how do you know the op did not already do this panning on his own and came to the conclusion that it was gold and a truth worth accepting?

If I am told something straight up in a vision and it feels true And authentic to me I am darn right going to accept it as the gospel truth because that is my gospel communion with plant spirits and the higher selves is where the ultimate truths come from from my perspective. Not from humanity which has more than abundantly demonstrAted its capacity for total delusion totally believing it's the truth and fighting and killing and repressing for it.

If we can all do our bit to increase the abundance of both...

There is a nugget of truth to the relative abundance of ayahuasca - if we accept the term in its broadest sense and include all the ayahuasca analog combinations rather than merely insisting on the mother vine being the one and only true ayahuasca, then 'ayahuasca' is pretty widespread and of a good relative abundance for those willing to seek it.

Thank you, brother.