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DEA Announces Kratom to become a Schedule 1 Substance Options
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#61 Posted : 9/25/2016 12:06:10 PM
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Quote:
The storm of protest from medical users of kratom, which included a demonstration near the White House on Tuesday, "was eye-opening for me personally," Patterson says. "I want the kratom community to know that the DEA does hear them. Our goal is to make sure this is available to all of them."


It's obvious what needs to done...

It's time to come out in the open and say "we use these plants, leave us alone"

I'm again brought back to the words of terence mckenna:
Quote:
Progress of human civilization in the area of defining human freedom is not made from the top down. No king, no parliament, no government ever extended to the people more rights than the people insisted upon. And I think we've come to a place with this psychedelic issue. And we have the gay community as a model, and all the other communities, the ethnic communities. We simply have to say, Look: LSD has been around for fifty years now, we just celebrated the birthday. It ain't going away. WE are not going away. We are not slack-jawed, dazed, glazed, unemployable psychotic creeps. We are pillars of society. You can't run your computers, your fashion houses, your publishing houses, your damn magazines, you can't do anything in culture without psychedelic people in key positions. And this is the great unspoken truth of American Creativity. So I think it's basically time to just come out of the closet and go, "You know what, I'm stoned, and I'm proud, and if that's a problem for you, then fella, you got a problem"-terence mckenna


Vice media has a television station, and I'll admit I watch from time to time, one thing I saw was these commercials where it would show a normal citizen, they state their occupation, and show that they are functioning members if society, then they say "and I smoke weed"

...Is this not taking mckenna's advice?

Is it not working? Culture has changed regarding cannabis where I live, and this change is slowly moving to the rest of the country and world.

Cannabis has made amazing progress in the face of a system which seeks to delegitimize and criminalize it's normal use and it's users, cannabis can be the spear point for decriminalization of other plant psychedelics.

-eg
 

Trippy glass for trippy people.
 
Cognitive Heart
#62 Posted : 9/30/2016 2:24:12 AM

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Quote:
The Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) confirmed that a ban on kratom will not go into effect as of September 30. Russ Baer, a spokesperson for the DEA, stated on September 29:

"What I can tell you is…we’re not going to do it tomorrow. I don’t have a date as to when we are going to do that final order publication in the federal registry."


http://heavy.com/news/20...s-will-kratom-be-banned/
"What's going to happen?" "Something wonderful."
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#63 Posted : 9/30/2016 3:45:33 PM
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Cognitive Heart wrote:
Quote:
The Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) confirmed that a ban on kratom will not go into effect as of September 30. Russ Baer, a spokesperson for the DEA, stated on September 29:

"What I can tell you is…we’re not going to do it tomorrow. I don’t have a date as to when we are going to do that final order publication in the federal registry."


http://heavy.com/news/20...-will-kratom-be-banned/


...so, are they are saying "it's not officially scheduled yet, but it will be at some unspecified future date"?

-eg
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#64 Posted : 9/30/2016 4:17:49 PM
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Cognitive Heart wrote:
Quote:
The Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) confirmed that a ban on kratom will not go into effect as of September 30. Russ Baer, a spokesperson for the DEA, stated on September 29:

"What I can tell you is…we’re not going to do it tomorrow. I don’t have a date as to when we are going to do that final order publication in the federal registry."


http://heavy.com/news/20...-will-kratom-be-banned/


...what a bunch of nonsense, this guy pretty much said "we are not changing the date due to public outrage, or lack of justification for scheduling, but due to some legal technicality"

Quote:
We are moving forward in terms of scheduling. We don’t know if it’s going to be on that date or sometime thereafter. The reason September 30 came into play was…we’re required by law to post in the federal register our intent to schedule at least 30 days prior to the actual temporary scheduling action. If you do the math, the earliest possible date we could do the temporary scheduling action is September 30. -http://heavy.com/news/2016/09/kratom-ban-united-states-dea-update-washington-d-c-letters-will-kratom-be-banned/


They seem adamant on moving forward with the scheduling, they act as though they simply want to brush aside efforts to prevent the scheduling, they superficially "listen" to groups such as the "American Kratom Association", but don't take anything said into consideration, they seem to disregard the people's will, researchers and scientists expert oppinion, and even disregard recommendations from some within their own organization who are recommending against the ban.

I get frustrated further every time I review this situation, because I see good people making a real effort to protect something they feel they should have they right to consume, and a government organization treating the backlash as minor obstacles, they superficially make little attempts here and there to make it seem as though they are actually looking at the situation objectively, when in all reality their mind was made up from the start, and there's nothing anybody can say or do about it.

-eg
 
BecometheOther
#65 Posted : 9/30/2016 8:16:01 PM

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Any updates on the ban

Apparently it didn't go into effect yet but they are still trying to move forward with it.

what a load of crap it makes me so angry!!!!

Found this info about what you can and should do to fight this ban. I care not because of kratom but it applies to cognitive Liberty in general and the only way to stop them from taking liberties with our liberties is to say no!
You have never been apart from me. You can never depart and never return, for we are continuous, indistinguishable. We are eternal forever
 
Cognitive Heart
#66 Posted : 10/12/2016 9:36:24 PM

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Bump! Thumbs up Some good news for Kratom.

Quote:
Schedules of Controlled Substances: Temporary Placement of Mitragynine and 7-Hydroxymitragynine into Schedule I; Withdrawal


http://www.drugpolicy.or...aws-emergency-kratom-ban
"What's going to happen?" "Something wonderful."
 
SpartanII
#67 Posted : 11/28/2016 2:21:38 AM

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Help keep kratom legal! Cool

http://www.kratomcomments.org/#/5/

The deadline for posting your comments is December 1st.
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#68 Posted : 11/28/2016 3:11:53 PM
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I encourage psychoactivists to do all that they can to prevent the scheduling of this plant and the compounds contained within it.

When the DEA has its sights set on a particular compound there's often very little that can be done to save it...

How long will we let them schedule our psychoactive gardens? How long will we let them persecute and imprison consumers of psychoactives?

Quote:
"If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -Thomas Jefferson


Quote:
“If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on.”
― Terence McKenna


The war on drugs is doing exactly what it was designed to do:

Quote:
what I discovered is drug smuggling is like assassination. If the government isn't involved, it never seems to really happen. And governments have been using drugs for centuries as forms of secret revenue. This whole sugar thing that I laid out to you, those were decisions made by the crown heads of Europe in collusion with the Pope. It wasn't common people who set those policies in place.

During the 1960's, when the black ghettos began to come apart, suddenly number three China white heroin was cheaper and more available than it had ever been in any time in this history of the heroin problem in the United States. Why? Because the CIA saw, you know, all these black guys are getting up, a bunch of uppity niggers as the government calls them, you just smother it in heroin. Get everybody either hooked or making money...

And they don't care really about the effects of drugs, and one group, one faction will work against another. For example, I'm a great afficianado of hashish, and hashish became very hard to get in the United States in the late 70's. But as soon as the Russians invaded Afghanistan, suddenly there was massive amounts of excellent Afghani hashish, at prices that nobody had seen for fifteen years. Well, the reason was, the CIA knows that hashish is not really a problem. But what they wanted is, they wanted an income for the mujahadin. And they had to pay for all these weapons. So they just started bringing it in wholesale. And it wasn't even a smuggling operation. I mean, I received reports from people who said, you know, 'Smuggling? They're not smuggling. They're unloading it on pier 39, union local 1030 is taking off, you know, five hundred pound blocks of hashish by the tens of thousands.' And the day the Afghan war ended? They staged an enormous series of interlocking busts on their own infrastructure, and they closed it down, and they pulled it to pieces.

When Khomeni kicked out the Shah, the Iranian heroin business then fell under the control of the mulahs, and at that point, suddenly cocaine emerges as a major problem in the United States, because we just switched our supply lines. We could no longer depend on Iranian heroin, because we couldn't depend on these screwy Islamic fundamentalists, so we just turned toward all of these company assets in Honduras and Ecuador and Columbia. Very, very cynical.

You know, it's only been a hundred and twenty years since the so called opium wars. Very few people know what the opium wars, what was the issue in the opium wars. Well, it turns out the British government wanted to deal opium in China, and the Chinese Emperor told them to get lost. And they flipped. And they sent naval units, and they laid siege to several Chinese cities, and they forced the Chinese imperial court to agree that they could deal as much opium as they wanted on the wharves of Shanghai...

The Japanese, when they invaded Manchuria in the Second World War, they immediately began producing heroin and opium in vast amounts, not then as an economic strategy, but as a strategy to break the will of the Chinese population by encouraging addiction, and there was vast amounts of opium addiction. If any of you saw 'The Last Emperor,' you recall that his mistress was severely addicted to opium, and it depicted it in a number of scenes.

So governments have very cynically manipulated drugs, so that the drugs which make it possible for capitalism to function are cheap and freely available, and the drugs which erode dominator values, or cause people to question their situation, are savagely supressed. -terence McKenna






-eg

 
PsilocybeChild
#69 Posted : 11/28/2016 4:57:59 PM

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Quote:
Help keep kratom legal! Cool

http://www.kratomcomments.org/#/5/

The deadline for posting your comments is December 1st.


Bump.
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slewb
#70 Posted : 11/29/2016 4:19:16 AM

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I'd like to make a comment but... I'm honestly not thrilled about the idea of giving the DEA my name and address along with a message about how I regularly use a substance that might soon be scheduled.
 
benzyme
#71 Posted : 11/29/2016 2:23:01 PM

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afaik, the decision has been reversed
http://www.snopes.com/20...ice-after-public-outcry/
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#72 Posted : 11/29/2016 2:34:30 PM
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benzyme wrote:
afaik, the decision has been reversed
http://www.snopes.com/20...ce-after-public-outcry/

This is an excerpt from the article you posted:
Quote:
According to the DEA's "Withdrawal of Notice of Intent to Temporarily Place Mitragynine and 7- Hydroxymitragynine into Schedule I," the agency planned to allow for a public comment period and additional information from the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) before taking further action.


Below is another article outlining the present situation:

Kratom Could Still Get Banned. Here's What You Need To Know
http://www.forbes.com/si...ecember-1/#6b7f10b6385e
Quote:

http://www.forbes.com/si...ecember-1/#6b7f10b6385e
The reaction led to a withdrawal of that order and a reconsideration: The DEA is now giving the public until December 1 to send comments on whether or not the drug should be placed on Schedule 1. It has also asked the FDA for input. This is a major difference from the agency’s original position: Because Schedule 1 is for substances that have a high potential for abuse and also have no proven medical benefit, an FDA opinion that the plant could have a medical benefit could hugely influence the end decision.


-eg
 
AluminumFoilRobots
#73 Posted : 12/4/2016 12:33:32 AM

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It was about nine o'clock in the morning when I heard that kratom was going to be banned. I was listening to an online news show that I like which has mostly political news but also lots of other random news, and I guess that this counts as political news regardless. I was driving back to where I was staying from a gas station, and I remember just shouting expletives at the top of my lungs while driving down the freeway.

I couldn't believe what I was hearing - kratom, my ever-obscure ally who has long enjoyed ambiguity and lack of nearly any alarming side-effects, finally had the Administration's scheduling highbeams directly upon it.
I had already gone through a similar, perhaps more acute, anxiety when kratom had been banned in a surprise move with no prior public warning to the day of the laws passage. My state has a very simple and dictatorial mechanism for banning new substances: the Head of the Health Department can simply issue a statement that the substance is a public health risk, and voila it is a controlled substance.
Now the feds were moving in on my medicine.

I have had two spinal fusion surgeries, the first of which was a partial failure leading to the rod being flexed over time and eventually snapped. The second surgery was the really painful one, ever since the first moments I woke up from surgery in AGONIZING pain from lying about how bad my opioid problem had gotten (which was the dumbest thing I have ever done in my whole life) and I wasn't given enough post-op pain meds... it was like a torture. They tried to give me enough meds but it was too late the pain was there.
Since then I've had nothing but issues with my back, just lots of pain and lack of ability to bend over or pick up items more than 30 pounds at the absolute most. It seems like it wouldn't be as bad as it is, but not being able to bend over without significant pain is a really lame disability.

I have used a wide range (kinda) of opioids, both prescribed (en masse)and illicit, and kratom has helped me more thsn any of them. I say that not because it a superior painkiller but because it doesn't try to take my soul and control my life to the same degree, and it gives me a sense of normalcy whereas using the pills or shit was a daily weird struggle and usually not having enough or running out during dry spells or whatever. It's legal status has decriminalized many ex-opioid users who were involved in the illicit opioid market otherwise. That is one reason to not schedule I this plant, or its active constituents! It diverts people AWAY from the illegal opioids! -

The next reason for Schedule I placement is also BS.
Saying that since there is an opioid crisis and kratom alkaloids have activity at the same receptor, and since it is currently legal and unregulated, therefore it should be banned as a legal opioid.
anyone who has tried can tell you almost any other opioid has more analgesic efficacy (which often times coincides inextricably with a euphoric buzz) than kratom.
Kratom is very mild in comparison, and it has much fewer social side effects. Kratom never made me distant from people, it never made me part of an ostracized group, it isnt sold at the exorbitant prices that street drugs are, in addition to the lack of the really scary side effects, it also is an all-natural plant product which actually contains many other constituents than the two with opioid receptor activity, many of which have distinct medicinal applications, as well as being rich in antioxidants. It just seems like the healthy(er) choice. I've always maintained that there could be some unforseen health effects from kratom that we just dont know about due to lack of study, but as of yet even among heavy users there is little evidence for major health concerns. I would be among the study group, and if I ever develop a kratom-related illness I would be sure to let as many people know as I could. So far it hasnt seemed to have effected my health, except at times perhaps my diet. Kratom seems not to effect my mind in the same way or if so to a much lesser degree than the way standard opioids do. My mood is fine usually, I'm not very intoxicated at all. Just a mild buzz and a distinct reduction in my pain level. Not a total elimination of the pain, but a solid 50% reduction.
Whenever I use opioids, it always eventually begins changing me psychologically... I mean, how could it not. It's literally slowly changing the physical make-up of you brain, modulating the heart and eventually dampening the soul.
Heroin was by far the most seductive of the bunch (obviously) and it also had an oneirogenic quality which I guess all of them have to one degree or another, but heroin took the cake for that. That is the poppy's visionary gift - the gift of portentous dreams (morpheus!?). But with that one, it slowly became evident that the spirit I was communing with does not necessarily have my best interests at heart. I had dreams that I would be getting seduced by a repeating dream character, a beautiful woman like turn of the last century, abstinthe or european wine/beer poster girl, always with tons of heroin and poppy flowers in the dreams, red poppy flowers, and she would try to make love with me. I always refused, becase subcosnciously I knew that if I gave in, she would have my soul. And so I never did.
Eventually I got busted, gave up the heroin and eventually gave up the pills too and switched back to Kratom and OTC pain meds for my spine issues.

The Schedule I drugs are supposed to have a high potential for abuse... another area in which kratom fails to meet the criteria.
Kratom is less addictive by an order of magnitude from the poppy opiates. Withdrawal from any of the popular opioids of choice is an excruciating affair, one of the most painful states for a human to be in without being in actual physical danger. When a person has been taking kratom daily for a long period of time, and abruptly stops, there is usually a period of withdrawal that is similar to, but much less severe than, withdrawal from a standard opioid. I've been through both many times, and before I had really withdrawn from opiates I thought the kratom withdrawals were bad - but now I know that they really aint sh*t compared to heroin or hydrocodone or oxycodone or morphine withdrawal. After those, the kratom w/d's are short, mild, and altogether bearable. But still, they exist, you can feel them; but then again so are caffeine withdrawals... those suck pretty bad.

But to the DEA, all use of kratom is "abuse". People using it A) to treat pain from injuries, surgeries, or conditions and B) to cope with Opioid withdrawals and to Replace Opioids in a Therapeutic manner - these are not evidence of legitimate medical applications, these are evidence of various manners of ABUSE!?
The way these gargantua of Government think and operate just baffles the mind.
One more thing on the B) above... The FDA has approved two medications for this very purpose - METHADONE and BUPRENORPHINE
... they have legitimized Opioid replacement therapy as a viable tactic to end the crisis - I agree, but why then destroy this third, natural, non-pharmaceutical medicine? Because it eats in to their PROFITS! If people can just get kratom, then why both with the methadone clinics and their rules, and the high cost of Suboxone clinics? Many, including myself, wouldn't!
In fact, it wasn't until my state banned kratom that I went back to the pills, and then after I couldnt stand that anymore I went into a suboxone program. Let me tell you, Buprenorphine is a weird b8tch. It is an extremely potent partial agonist with a very high binding profile and a looong halflife. I was somewhat confused by this stuff which seems to be EXTREMELY powerful to opiate-naive people, but barely noticeable to addicts... but now I realize, that the way this stuff "helps" is by A) giving the patient a normal life without resorting to the streets for their drugs which is the main way I think this therapy helps, and B) it also pummels the opioid receptors into submission until you have such a high tolerance that you don't even feel it if you relapse. And also, the high, competitive binding profile prevents any other opiate from getting in as long as the bupe occupies the receptor, and the long half life means that takes days to wear off....
Which leads to a person is just as, if not more, addicted to the Suboxone as they were the Opiates. Supposedly then you wean the person off the subs, but often it goes on for years and sometimes never stops.
Kratom in this application actually has LESS of an effect on the brain and therefore LESS addiction even as you replace the opiate for daily use.

"Must Pose an Eminent Threat to Public Safety"
I'm pretty sure both mitragynine and 7-ho-mitragyine, but maybe just the former are only partial agonists of the mu- and delta- opioid receptors, preferring the G-protein pathway which is associated with less respiratory depression and constipation, meaning that they do not pose the nearly the public health risk that the standard opioids do. Also, I'm pretty sure mitragynine has only negligible activity at the mu-opioid receptor, with most of its activity being confined to the delta subgroup which, IIRC, doesn't result in near the level of desensitization and resultant change in receptor density due to the saturation with exogenous ligands AKA less Opioid Use Disorder in frequent, medical use.
You can tell by the way they tried to do it, in both the cases I am talking about, sur prising people in a swoop to ban without giving the public a chance to weigh in on the decision making process. Typical, I guess, but sad.


Anyway, I've been writing this all day... but I really care about this issue and it just really sucks I remember Kratom being so obscure NO BODY knew what it was... I knew it blowing up was a double edged sword...

Cross your fingers and toes that the delay is permanent! Thanks to all the senators who signed against the ban
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Fairly responsible Kratom user.

"whenever he drank ayahuasca, he had such beautiful visions that he used to put his hands over his eyes for fear somebody might steal them."
in between the grinding-brakes of a train crash while aluminum-foil robots make obnoxious sex noises on a static-filled walkie-talkie radio.
 
Godsmacker
#74 Posted : 12/4/2016 4:20:23 PM

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'"ALAS,"said the mouse, "the world is growing smaller every day. At the
beginning it was so big that I was afraid, I kept running and running, and I was glad
when at last I saw walls far away to the right and left, but these long walls have
narrowed so quickly that I am in the last chamber already, and there in the corner
stands the trap that I must run into." "You only need to change your direction," said
the cat, and ate it up.' --Franz Kafka
 
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