Utter nonsense!

Anahuasca means analogue plants used instead. Is it really THAT hard to understand?

yes, of course is diferent, but still (from my experience) the shroom will still be the main energy. now take ayahuasca or caapi with shroomz, you wont be able to say the same. and thats not even the point.




if we want to be even more specific let me tell you this:

there where 14 indigenous tribes representants in this 2nd world ayahuasca conference, and they where kinda pissed of (for many reasons, but i will only state one, to not go off topic)
Most of them didnt like that only the word ayahuasca was used (as a generic name), they felt it was taking away their history and tradition.
like it was said by Professor Joaquim Maná Huni Kuin:
"Each tribe has its own name for this sacred brew, and thats not just a simple linguistic denomination. The name tells about the brew itself, but also tells about the spirituality, traditions, and rituals of each tribe. So we have Kamarãpi for the Ashaninka; Kamalãpi for the Manchineri; Hori for the Nokê Koi; Uni for the Yawanawá; Nixi Pae for the Huni Kuin... and so on!

so where im trying to get to, is not about now being picky about the right terminologies of everything we consume, but at least respect the ones that have long history and tradition of use, just that. of course extracted alks have no tradition whatsoever. but Jurema and Rue, sure have. thats the whole point.

On another note, why do people use so few caapi harmalas when doing pharma with caapi extract....If 50g of caapi contains about a gram of alkaloids, why do people often use under 400mg caapi alkaloids per dose.....could this be why the experience is often seen as lacking?

As to how the THH altered the experience -> I find rue extract+DMT to be very similar to mushrooms I found the THH added to the rue+DMT to shift the experience to a state much closer to that provided by LSD. It was more clear, more energetic, more focused, more euphoric, and when confusion struck it was definitely more "acid-like".

It's not "hard to understand". You're simply wrong.

Anahasca is an oral dmt preparation using substances analogous to classic "ayahuasca plants". The analogs needn't plant brews (which are extractions in their own right) to qualify.

Ergo my statement was far from nonsense.

Regarding the 'brews are extracts' argument, there is a big difference between the 'traditional' regular brews ( full spectrum water 'extracts' ) and chemical extracts using techniques that not only remove tannins, and plant matter, but possibly also other important 'actives': I have already explained this clearly a few posts back. Perhaps if you read that post you would understand the above point better.

Cheers.

[quote=ganesh]I see what you are saying.....Is a brew for sure full-spectrum though? I is possible that there are actives not soluble in polar solvents in the plant matter?

Possibly. But a brewed liquid is often the starting point from which chemical extractions are based upon. However, for simplicity's sake water is a great solvent, it also extracts stuff which whilst insoluble, contains suspensions, etc, you know the stuff that settles.

I believe that in the jungle the water used is slightly acidic from plant decomposition, which also helps. Probably explains why many people like to add vinegar, etc. Although it's not essential.

It would be interesting to brew up some vine, and then evap some non-polar pulls on the sediment/remaining plant matter to see if any actives are left behind.....

If so, the water brew could be evaporated too and the p/np-soluble actives combined and capped up for a truly full-spectrum pharma experience.....

It would be interesting to brew up some vine, and then evap some non-polar pulls on the sediment/remaining plant matter to see if any actives are left behind.....

If so, the water brew could be evaporated too and the p/np-soluble actives combined and capped up for a truly full-spectrum pharma experience.....

I agree for the most part but....

Traditions are created all the time. Our use of extracted alks is part of a tradition. It needn't be ancient to be a tradition...

Meaning of tradition: the handing down of statements, beliefs, legends, customs, information, etc., from generation to generation, especially by word of mouth or by practice

On another note, why do people use so few caapi harmalas when doing pharma with caapi extract....If 50g of caapi contains about a gram of alkaloids, why do people often use under 400mg caapi alkaloids per dose.....could this be why the experience is often seen as lacking?

With harmaline, and by association tetrahydroharmine, Other recurrent open eye visual phenomena were a rapid lateral vibration in the field of vision and double or multiple contours in objects, especially when these were in motion or when the subject's eyes turned away from them. Some described lightning-like flashes.

With closed eyes, imagery was abundant and most often vivid and bright colored, with a predominance of red-green or blue-orange contrasts. Longdream-like sequences were much more frequent for harmaline than for mescaline. Certain themes, such as felines, negroes, eyes, and flying are frequent and have been reported elsewhere [18].

I've had several hundred milligrams of THH taken orally, the THH caused extreme ghost tracers and shutter like perception almost like glitching with open eyes.

Recent work by Grella and colleagues (page 71), taken together with our findings, support a role for the 5-HT2A receptor subtype in the stimulus effects of ibogaine and harmaline.

Moreover, harmaline appears to be more hallucinogenic than mescaline (the most visually acting drug in its chemical group), both in terms of the number of images reported and their realistic quality with closed eyes. In fact some subjects felt that certain scenes which they saw had really happened, and that they had been as disembodied witnesses of them in a different time and place. This matches the experience of South American Shamans who drink Ayahuasca for purposes of divination.

The remarkable vividness of imagery viewed under the effect of harmaline, together with phenomena such as (with open eyes) double contours and persistence of afterimages (closed eyes), had led us to suspect a retinal effect of the drug, and this suspicion was confirmed with brain cortex readings.

Tetrahydroharmine (THH), the reduction product of harmaline, and one of the major components of caapi, is another substance studied by Gunn and shown to be similar to its more saturated homo-logs, but three times less active than harmaline. Racemic tetrahydroharmine, up to 300mg by mouth had subjective effects similar to 100mg of harmaline. A single experiment suggested that racemic tetrahydroharmine was about 1/3rd as active as harmaline.

It is the harmaline and ibogaine intoxications that are of greatest interest from the point of view of psychological exploration or of psychotherapeutic endeavor. At the dosage level of 4-5mg/kg both harmaline and ibogaine elicit subjective reactions such as will be described in the following pages, which last for approximately 6 hr. In addition to this, about 50% of the subjects receiving either drug experience dizziness, incoordination, nausea, and vomiting at some point or other in the session. (page 219): Compared to the effects of harmaline, those of ibogaine seem less exotic.

The Harmala Alkaloids

The harmala alkaloids are psychoactive in man at oral doses of 25 to 750 milligrams. A small dose (25.50 milligrams) is a CNS stimulant. it increases mental activity and produces a pleasant dreamy state for several hours. The larger doses-- 200 milligrams up to 750 milligrams--yield the hallucinogenic effects. The experience usually begins within one hour and often lasts six hours or more,

The initial effects include nausea, vomitting, increased blood pressure and heart rate, profuse sweating, dizziness and body tremors. During this initial period you may hear humming or buzzing noises and you may notice a wave-like movement of the environment. You may feel alternations of hot and cold, You may even experience the feeling of sinking together with the sensation of flight.

These initial effects can be discomforting. They tend to produce anxiety and encourage a withdrawal from the external world. You will probably perceive environmental sights and sounds, especially other persons, as disturbing objects and wish to avoid them. Seek a dark, quiet place where you can enjoy the hallucinatory trance which follows.

The hallucinatory trance consists of three successive stages of hallucinations. You will know stage one when your sense of darkness is interrupted by bright flickers of light. These phosphene-based sensations first appear as colored dots, specks, stars or simple flowers. They give way to undulating lines, circles, grids, simple forms, abstract designs and multi-shaped geometrical patterns. Relax and enjoy a closed-eye contemplation of the floating, ever-changing pattern of these little images.

In stage two the abstract designs of stage one give way to slowly moving masses of shapes and colors. Larger shapes take form in a slowly developing pattern of hallucinatory images. These images acquire a personal character as your unconscious mind projects your fears and desires upon the shapes and colors of your visions. Do not be alarmed if the horizon seems to collapse in a bright flash of light or if your hallucinations turn into frightening animals. Huge birds of prey, large jaguars and snakes are common hallucinations with harmala alkaloids. Observe and enjoy the bright colored imagery as it changes continually in a flowing transformation of dream-like sequences.

Hours later, in stage three, this panorama of vivid fantasy fades into the slow movement of shapes and colors. These images disappear, in turn, as the last stage of the hallucinatory trance wears off. If your harmala experiment is part of a group experience, you may be surprised by the unusual similarity in the content of each other's hallucinations. The
harmala alkaloids tend to produce collective hallucinations--especially archetypal imagery--among group members. This access to "collective unconscious" is such an extraordinary effect that the harmala alkaloids have earned the name "telepathines". These unusual alkaloids are present naturally in harmala, the Hallucinogenic Herb of the American Southwest.

Important Considerations

Every psychedelic experience is chiefly a function of set and setting, of preparation and environment. The better prepared YOU are, the better the experience will be for you. Consider the following instructions:

* Do not drink any alcohol or take any drugs or medication when experimenting with MAO inhibitors (Ie, the harmala alkaloids).

REMEMBER: MAO inhibitors interfere with the bodys ability to detoxify certain drugs and fermented foodstuffs. Narcotics, barbiturates, tranquilizers, antihistamines, amphetamines, all forms of alcohol and foodstuffs containing tyramine are potentially LETHAL when used In
combination with MAO Inhibitors.

* Provide a comfortable setting which is as free as possible from unforeseen distractions and intrusions. Make sure you will not be disturbed for six to eight hours."