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E-liquid success: An express ticket to the Alien Pool-Party Options
 
starway6
#61 Posted : 6/22/2016 2:21:50 AM

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Searching for what temp water vaporizes and it said 100 degrees..

Also this video shows how to vaporize water instantly...

Thought this to be very interesting... not shure it could be used in a vape though...


How to Vaporize Water Instantly? - YouTube
Video for temperature water vaporizes?▶ 2:33
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ILdO-ePHNk
Jan 5, 2013 - Uploaded by JohnSavesEnergy
In very cold temperatures, hot water (when thrown quickly into the air) will vaporize instantly. The ...
 

Trippy glass for trippy people.
 
sbc1
#62 Posted : 6/22/2016 7:08:10 AM
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Dmt fb isn't soluble in water, people don't vaporise dmt fumarate, water in the lungs is bad, dmt vaporises beyond 100c so won't work, pg is used to thin out vg, water will damage the atomizer, I could go on but you get the point
 
steppa
#63 Posted : 6/22/2016 10:29:08 AM

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sbc1 wrote:
dmt vaporises beyond 100c so won't work


This seems false to me. I could nicely vape DMT which was dissolved in 96% EtHO, which has an even lower BP. I too, don't see any needs to add water to the mix, though.
Everything is always okay in the end, if it's not, then it's not the end.
 
starway6
#64 Posted : 6/22/2016 8:21:42 PM

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steppa wrote:
sbc1 wrote:
dmt vaporises beyond 100c so won't work


This seems false to me. I could nicely vape DMT which was dissolved in 96% EtHO, which has an even lower BP. I too, don't see any needs to add water to the mix, though.



96 percent ETHO..?

Does ..etho.. mean alcohol?

Isnt that kind of un safe?
 
ducdevil
#65 Posted : 6/22/2016 8:45:21 PM

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i returned to this thread that i started a while back; where the heck has this gone?? LOL Laughing

why is it so complicated?

choose a juice you like, 0% nicotine, ideally no more than 60-70%VG, warm the liquid and dissolve the spice with a ratio that suits you.

find a nice sub-ohm tank with a coil .2-.5ohm and use a wattage (don't worry about volts with the new mods) that produces nice clouds so you can receive a decent amount of spice per puff.

done

it will take a bit of trial and error, but it's foolproof. well - that may not be true; perhaps a fool could mess it up.

what's all this talk about water and ethanol? yikes!!! Wut? Confused

 
starway6
#66 Posted : 6/22/2016 8:49:08 PM

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I mean that i usualy make a dmt tincture using grain alcohol and vape the dmt in with torch lighter only after all the alcohol is evaporated leaving a sticky spice on some chore boy..

I guess small dose alcohol wont kill you.. but wont it make you drunk along with the spice effects?

The alcohol may also take away from the spice effects...

That is... if ETHO means alcohol...
 
Psychogardener
#67 Posted : 6/23/2016 4:48:25 AM

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@ ducdevil

Hi, my ohm reading is 0.8ohm (you said need 0.2-0.5ohm). is mine able to achieve intended result?

Thanks & Best Regards.
All your signatures are MINE
 
ducdevil
#68 Posted : 6/23/2016 4:54:46 AM

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yes - of course...
.8 is just fine. just start with low wattage and work your way up.
you will enjoy
 
steppa
#69 Posted : 6/23/2016 8:15:16 AM

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ducdevil wrote:
choose a juice you like, 0% nicotine, ideally no more than 60-70%VG, warm the liquid and dissolve the spice with a ratio that suits you.

find a nice sub-ohm tank with a coil .2-.5ohm and use a wattage (don't worry about volts with the new mods) that produces nice clouds so you can receive a decent amount of spice per puff.

done


Exactly.

Quote:
what's all this talk about water and ethanol? yikes!!! Wut? Confused


I used ethanol before there were sub ohm box mods and stuff like this. When only those 510 pen style thingies were available. Way before this thread existed. Worked fine. A major drawback was the ethanol evaping over time...even in the fridge. Good that those times are over. Smile

starway6 wrote:
Does ..etho.. mean alcohol?


Yes. Sorry meant to write EtOH.

starway6 wrote:
Isnt that kind of un safe?


Probably.
Everything is always okay in the end, if it's not, then it's not the end.
 
some one
#70 Posted : 8/1/2016 4:37:20 AM

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Warning!

The study quoted below found various toxic chemicals being released from PG and VG. Some of them are carcinogenic.

Quote:
Use of electronic cigarettes has grown exponentially over the past few years, raising concerns about harmful emissions. This study quantified potentially toxic compounds in the vapor and identified key parameters affecting emissions. Six principal constituents in three different refill “e-liquids” were propylene glycol (PG), glycerin, nicotine, ethanol, acetol, and propylene oxide. The latter, with mass concentrations of 0.4–0.6%, is a possible carcinogen and respiratory irritant. Aerosols generated with vaporizers contained up to 31 compounds, including nicotine, nicotyrine, formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, glycidol, acrolein, acetol, and diacetyl. Glycidol is a probable carcinogen not previously identified in the vapor, and acrolein is a powerful irritant. Emission rates ranged from tens to thousands of nanograms of toxicants per milligram of e-liquid vaporized, and they were significantly higher for a single-coil vs a double-coil vaporizer (by up to an order of magnitude for aldehydes). By increasing the voltage applied to a single-coil device from 3.3 to 4.8 V, the mass of e-liquid consumed doubled from 3.7 to 7.5 mg puff–1 and the total aldehyde emission rates tripled from 53 to 165 μg puff–1, with acrolein rates growing by a factor of 10. Aldehyde emissions increased by more than 60% after the device was reused several times, likely due to the buildup of polymerization byproducts that degraded upon heating. These findings suggest that thermal degradation byproducts are formed during vapor generation. Glycidol and acrolein were primarily produced by glycerin degradation. Acetol and 2-propen-1-ol were produced mostly from PG, while other compounds (e.g., formaldehyde) originated from both. Because emissions originate from reaction of the most common e-liquid constituents (solvents), harmful emissions are expected to be ubiquitous when e-cigarette vapor is present.
Source: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/...10.1021/acs.est.6b01741

Many of these chemicals are major health hazards:

Diacetyl
Quote:
Diacetyl has been linked to a rare type of lung disease, bronchiolitis obliterans, also called "popcorn worker's lung" because it has been seen primarily in workers at microwave popcorn factories. This disease destroys the lungs and can be cured only by a lung transplant. Diacetyl appears to damage lungs when it is repeatedly inhaled in vaporized form (!!!).
Source: http://www.drweil.com/dr...ave-Popcorn-Threat.html

Glycidol
Probable carcinogen not previously identified in e-vapor

Propylene oxide
Probable carcinogen and respiratory irritant

Acetaldehyde
Carcinogen (nasal, oral)

Acrolein
Powerful irritant

Formaldehyde
Known carcinogen. Causes nasal sinus cancer, nasopharyngeal cancer and leukemia:

Quote:
Ingestion of 30 mL of a solution containing 37% formaldehyde has been reported to cause death in an adult human. Water solution of formaldehyde is very corrosive and its ingestion can cause severe injury to the upper gastrointestinal tract.

Further information and evaluation of all known data led the IARC to reclassify formaldehyde as a known human carcinogen associated with nasal sinus cancer and nasopharyngeal cancer. Recent studies have also shown a positive correlation between exposure to formaldehyde and the development of leukemia, particularly myeloid leukemia.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formaldehyde

Below another paper. It shows that e-sigs release Formaldehyde. No Formaldehyde is found at regular e-cigarettes power levels. However, at more volt (more power, higher coil temp) a significant increase of Formaldehyde was detected. This is bad news for sub-ohm vaping. As commercial sub-ohm vapes are a relatively new phenomenon, the question is if the Formaldehyde factor is an overlooked danger up to now.

Quote:
Formaldehyde is a known degradation product of propylene glycol that reacts with propylene glycol and glycerol during vaporization to produce hemiacetals. These molecules are known formaldehyde-releasing agents. In many samples of the particulate matter (i.e., the aerosol) in “vaped” e-cigarettes, more than 2% of the total solvent molecules have converted to formaldehyde-releasing agents, reaching concentrations higher than concentrations of nicotine. This happens when propylene glycol and glycerol are heated in the presence of oxygen to temperatures reached by commercially available e-cigarettes operating at high voltage. How formaldehyde-releasing agents behave in the respiratory tract is unknown, but formaldehyde is an International Agency for Research on Cancer group 1 carcinogen.

Here we present results of an analysis of commercial e-liquid vaporized with the use of a “tank system” e-cigarette featuring a variable-voltage battery. The aerosolized liquid was collected in an NMR spectroscopy tube (10 50-ml puffs over 5 minutes; 3 to 4 seconds per puff). With each puff, 5 to 11 mg of e-liquid was consumed, and 2 to 6 mg of liquid was collected. At low voltage (3.3 V), we did not detect the formation of any formaldehyde-releasing agents (estimated limit of detection, approximately 0.1 μg per 10 puffs). At high voltage (5.0 V), a mean (±SE) of 380±90 μg per sample (10 puffs) of formaldehyde was detected as formaldehyde-releasing agents. Extrapolating from the results at high voltage, an e-cigarette user vaping at a rate of 3 ml per day would inhale 14.4±3.3 mg of formaldehyde per day in formaldehyde-releasing agents. This estimate is conservative because we did not collect all of the aerosolized liquid, nor did we collect any gas-phase formaldehyde. One estimate of the average delivery of formaldehyde from conventional cigarettes is approximately 150 μg per cigarette,3 or 3 mg per pack of 20 cigarettes.
Source: http://www.nejm.org/doi/.../NEJMc1413069#t=article

14mg Formaldehyde per 3 ml. If DMT 1:4 (250mg DMT per 1ml), then per 30 mg DMT = (14/3) / (250/30) = 0.6mg Formaldehyde = same as 4 sigarettes. This is not much. However, the question is how accurate the 14mg per 3ml estimation is. What if in realty it's 10x higher? Problem is, more studies are needed.

Be advised that this route is not 100% health safe and that issues from sub-ohm vaping have not been fully researched yet.
To those inclined to go this route, I would keep the DMT ratio as high as possible so as little as possible vapor is needed.

ducdevil, I hear you can dissolve DMT 1:1 in PG. Is this true? What about VG, how much DMT can you dissolve in 100/0 VG/PG?
What if you made a strong 1:1 or 1:2 solution and vape it on lower power settings?
some is one - here is some - there is one
 
1ce
#71 Posted : 8/25/2016 1:13:49 AM

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ducdevil wrote:
Yes. Absolutely. Sub Ohm is the key.

It is also, I should mention, worth some caution. Immense amounts of vapor can be inhaled with each puff, so the over-zealous juice mixer could really be in for quite the surprise.

In the previous threads, folks were mixing 1g per 1ml because the amount of vapor possible with the weaker batteries and higher resistance coils made dosing really hard; multiple puffs - maybe 5-10 inhalations to get anywhere. The small tanks had no airflow and couldn't vape enough liquid at once. That is no longer the case.

Ratios of 1:4 are still quite generous; I had rip-roaring success with 1:6, and that was even a bit intense.

There are so many tanks and coils available now; an embarrassment of riches, as they say...

The research has just begun Very happy


I plan on trying this as well, just need some free time for an extraction. I'm using an ipower mod that lets me regulate wattage/temperature fully configurable to coil I'm using.

atm just for experimentation I'm just using rebuilt .2ohm coils, kanthal at 40 watt for my nic vaping. So this is probably what I will use to experiment with. But in the end I may try a coil that allows for temp control.

I'm currently using an x-tank, juice holes are at the bottom of the tank. One can merely use a syringe to imput juice (say .25ml, or .50ml) and see how many puffs they get with it and mix accordingly.

OP is not joking though, these tanks can offput enormous ammount of vapor. And even ratios that allowed 8-10mg per puff could very easilly allow for breakthrough doses.
 
1ce
#72 Posted : 8/25/2016 1:18:35 AM

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some one wrote:
Warning!

The study quoted below found various toxic chemicals being released from PG and VG. Some of them are carcinogenic.

Quote:
Use of electronic cigarettes has grown exponentially over the past few years, raising concerns about harmful emissions. This study quantified potentially toxic compounds in the vapor and identified key parameters affecting emissions. Six principal constituents in three different refill “e-liquids” were propylene glycol (PG), glycerin, nicotine, ethanol, acetol, and propylene oxide. The latter, with mass concentrations of 0.4–0.6%, is a possible carcinogen and respiratory irritant. Aerosols generated with vaporizers contained up to 31 compounds, including nicotine, nicotyrine, formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, glycidol, acrolein, acetol, and diacetyl. Glycidol is a probable carcinogen not previously identified in the vapor, and acrolein is a powerful irritant. Emission rates ranged from tens to thousands of nanograms of toxicants per milligram of e-liquid vaporized, and they were significantly higher for a single-coil vs a double-coil vaporizer (by up to an order of magnitude for aldehydes). By increasing the voltage applied to a single-coil device from 3.3 to 4.8 V, the mass of e-liquid consumed doubled from 3.7 to 7.5 mg puff–1 and the total aldehyde emission rates tripled from 53 to 165 μg puff–1, with acrolein rates growing by a factor of 10. Aldehyde emissions increased by more than 60% after the device was reused several times, likely due to the buildup of polymerization byproducts that degraded upon heating. These findings suggest that thermal degradation byproducts are formed during vapor generation. Glycidol and acrolein were primarily produced by glycerin degradation. Acetol and 2-propen-1-ol were produced mostly from PG, while other compounds (e.g., formaldehyde) originated from both. Because emissions originate from reaction of the most common e-liquid constituents (solvents), harmful emissions are expected to be ubiquitous when e-cigarette vapor is present.
Source: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/...10.1021/acs.est.6b01741

Many of these chemicals are major health hazards:

Diacetyl
Quote:
Diacetyl has been linked to a rare type of lung disease, bronchiolitis obliterans, also called "popcorn worker's lung" because it has been seen primarily in workers at microwave popcorn factories. This disease destroys the lungs and can be cured only by a lung transplant. Diacetyl appears to damage lungs when it is repeatedly inhaled in vaporized form (!!!).
Source: http://www.drweil.com/dr...ave-Popcorn-Threat.html

Glycidol
Probable carcinogen not previously identified in e-vapor

Propylene oxide
Probable carcinogen and respiratory irritant

Acetaldehyde
Carcinogen (nasal, oral)

Acrolein
Powerful irritant

Formaldehyde
Known carcinogen. Causes nasal sinus cancer, nasopharyngeal cancer and leukemia:

Quote:
Ingestion of 30 mL of a solution containing 37% formaldehyde has been reported to cause death in an adult human. Water solution of formaldehyde is very corrosive and its ingestion can cause severe injury to the upper gastrointestinal tract.

Further information and evaluation of all known data led the IARC to reclassify formaldehyde as a known human carcinogen associated with nasal sinus cancer and nasopharyngeal cancer. Recent studies have also shown a positive correlation between exposure to formaldehyde and the development of leukemia, particularly myeloid leukemia.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formaldehyde

Below another paper. It shows that e-sigs release Formaldehyde. No Formaldehyde is found at regular e-cigarettes power levels. However, at more volt (more power, higher coil temp) a significant increase of Formaldehyde was detected. This is bad news for sub-ohm vaping. As commercial sub-ohm vapes are a relatively new phenomenon, the question is if the Formaldehyde factor is an overlooked danger up to now.

Quote:
Formaldehyde is a known degradation product of propylene glycol that reacts with propylene glycol and glycerol during vaporization to produce hemiacetals. These molecules are known formaldehyde-releasing agents. In many samples of the particulate matter (i.e., the aerosol) in “vaped” e-cigarettes, more than 2% of the total solvent molecules have converted to formaldehyde-releasing agents, reaching concentrations higher than concentrations of nicotine. This happens when propylene glycol and glycerol are heated in the presence of oxygen to temperatures reached by commercially available e-cigarettes operating at high voltage. How formaldehyde-releasing agents behave in the respiratory tract is unknown, but formaldehyde is an International Agency for Research on Cancer group 1 carcinogen.

Here we present results of an analysis of commercial e-liquid vaporized with the use of a “tank system” e-cigarette featuring a variable-voltage battery. The aerosolized liquid was collected in an NMR spectroscopy tube (10 50-ml puffs over 5 minutes; 3 to 4 seconds per puff). With each puff, 5 to 11 mg of e-liquid was consumed, and 2 to 6 mg of liquid was collected. At low voltage (3.3 V), we did not detect the formation of any formaldehyde-releasing agents (estimated limit of detection, approximately 0.1 μg per 10 puffs). At high voltage (5.0 V), a mean (±SE) of 380±90 μg per sample (10 puffs) of formaldehyde was detected as formaldehyde-releasing agents. Extrapolating from the results at high voltage, an e-cigarette user vaping at a rate of 3 ml per day would inhale 14.4±3.3 mg of formaldehyde per day in formaldehyde-releasing agents. This estimate is conservative because we did not collect all of the aerosolized liquid, nor did we collect any gas-phase formaldehyde. One estimate of the average delivery of formaldehyde from conventional cigarettes is approximately 150 μg per cigarette,3 or 3 mg per pack of 20 cigarettes.
Source: http://www.nejm.org/doi/.../NEJMc1413069#t=article

14mg Formaldehyde per 3 ml. If DMT 1:4 (250mg DMT per 1ml), then per 30 mg DMT = (14/3) / (250/30) = 0.6mg Formaldehyde = same as 4 sigarettes. This is not much. However, the question is how accurate the 14mg per 3ml estimation is. What if in realty it's 10x higher? Problem is, more studies are needed.

Be advised that this route is not 100% health safe and that issues from sub-ohm vaping have not been fully researched yet.
To those inclined to go this route, I would keep the DMT ratio as high as possible so as little as possible vapor is needed.

ducdevil, I hear you can dissolve DMT 1:1 in PG. Is this true? What about VG, how much DMT can you dissolve in 100/0 VG/PG?
What if you made a strong 1:1 or 1:2 solution and vape it on lower power settings?


I've read alot of these reports amd from what I can tell you're more exposed to toxins extracting dmt in the first place.

as far as popcorn lung goes, it is caused by certain flavoring agents. diy juice mixers need notnwory about this since they know what they're mixing with.

these types of threads seeming always attract paranoids, but from what I can tell the most harmful affect of vaping is suppression of the immune system (slightly more than tobacco). However from what I've read is its unknown how many of the ill affects are caused by flavorings.
 
Studio1one
#73 Posted : 10/18/2016 8:26:30 AM

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Any final recommendations then to exact ratios. 500ml to 2mg?

Also has anyone tried making echanga? dissolving some fb haarmala as well as dmt into the juice.
Quote:

Darkness cannot banish darkness, only light can do that

Hate cannot banish hate, only love can do that.
 
some one
#74 Posted : 10/23/2016 9:47:08 PM

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1ce, maybe it is a bit paranoid. Also, the studies I posted have actually been debunked by others as their methods were not realistic. So its not as bad as it seems. However, no one can make a statement that sub ohm vaping is as safe as normal low powered e-cigarettes as no (valid) scientific studies exist as of yet which proof that sub om vaping (a phenomenon only recently gone mainstream) is just as safe (assuming that low powered e-sigs are safe). So, the studies I posted about the dangers can't be trusted, but there are no studies yet showing there are no dangers either. That deserves a fair warning.

Having said that, I hope to make the e-juice approach my favorite smoke tech for the future. I used 1:4 dmt to e-juice potency by weight (250mg DMT per 1ml 50%PG/50%VG). I used a variable temp control coil on a high temp setting. It was a while ago so i don't remember exactly, but I think it was 300 deg C on a 0.25 ohm coil. I took 2 inhalations, it worked, but some more would be better (I prefer very high dosages). A less experienced person who was with me had a solid experience from 1 inhalation.

Next I will try 1:1 potency (1g DMT per 1ml 100%PG) and reduce the power output way down to the point where one 10 second (auto off) inhalation is a perfect dosage. My criteria for a smoking apparatus is to be able to inhale everything at ones. I can then simply tweak the strength by upping/lowering the power, gaining good dosage control for other users. Also, low power eliminates any potential high powered e-juice vapor risk as per my previous post (if there are any or not).

If I'm not satisfied, I can always add some additional VG to the mix afterwards to fine tune. Maybe I end up with 1:2 DMT 50/50 PG/VG @ 40W (didn't try variable voltage yet) or something who knows.. Warning: as already mentioned by others: don't copy me on going 1:1 if you don't know what you're doing. I'm planning to use much less power output, say 10W, and go up from there..

Will keep you posted!
some is one - here is some - there is one
 
ducdevil
#75 Posted : 10/24/2016 12:05:49 AM

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had an interesting e-juice experience last weekend:

made up a batch of 1:6 with a 60/40 blend. i used a 0% nicotine liquid, of course. if anyone is interested, it was by "Cyberliquid"...a flavor called "Vader". it's delicious - been a fave vape of mine, so i got some in zero nic for this purpose alone.

put it in a Herekles tank with a .5ohm coil. saturated the coil for a few hours by filling the tank about 1/5 of the way. then, filled up about another 2ml.

two hit breakthrough at 50watts. a stunning journey. deep, slow hits with huge clouds. epic.

i thought i would try it in an RDA with a single .3ohm coil. i calculated that each drop had about 8mg so i put 4 drops on the coil/cotton, knowing i wouldn't get it all - this was really just a test to see how effective a dripper might be.

it was kind-of a bust. barely got anywhere but that really uncomfortable feeling when you're stuck on the verge....i clearly did not saturate the cotton well enough. after two hits i could tell it wasn't going to be like the tank, so i hit it again and got a dry hit. that was almost hyper-slap worthy, but not too bad.

i'll skip the RDAs for now - a good, robust sub-ohm tank is the way to go.
 
gimpy
#76 Posted : 10/26/2016 3:31:12 PM

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first time vaping dmt-juice last night.... wow! worked a treat :-)

went for 1:3 ratio so 500mg in 1.5ml lab grade PG70/VG30. no flavouring or nico

first dissolved the crystals in minimal amount of warm IPA as someone suggested above (good trick that), evapped down a bit then added the PG/VG and kept warm to evap off more IPA

kit was an apollo reliant mod with klangertech subtank mini using the RBA bit it came with set to about 15W IIRC. i'm not hugely clued up on vaping technicals but i gather there's room for improvement regarding temp control etc. cos there's so many variables with this ROA

the dmt itself was re-crystalised nice solid crystals, darkish yellow cos i re-x'd several pulls together so various amounts of gunk in there. want to work towards re-x pure white stuff as, as with smoking, i cud still feel those plant oils condensing on my throat and lungs which for me makes me wanna cough and spit which isn't much fun when tripping. infact that's always been the main downside with taking the stuff, need to work on purity here

anyway. took about 4 solid pulls and was well away. could still taste the IPA so need to make sure i evap all that off properly next time.

in conclusion: major success with a bit of tweaking to do. cheers for all the helpful posts on this matter :-) gonna load this tank up and take it out to a rave on the weekend hehe!






To fathom hell or soar angelic, take a pinch of psychedelic....
 
ducdevil
#77 Posted : 10/26/2016 3:41:16 PM

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congrats!

no need, in my opinion, for the IPA. spice will dissolve in warm juice - even at 60vg/40pg. patience is all it takes. took almost 30min of stirring in a water bath - but it did.

you do not want to vape IPA.

safe travels
 
steppa
#78 Posted : 10/26/2016 3:58:33 PM

Yes


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Quote:
no need, in my opinion, for the IPA. spice will dissolve in warm juice - even at 60vg/40pg. patience is all it takes. took almost 30min of stirring in a water bath - but it did.


This.

Quote:
gonna load this tank up and take it out to a rave on the weekend hehe!


Be sure that it doesn't leak.
Everything is always okay in the end, if it's not, then it's not the end.
 
ducdevil
#79 Posted : 10/26/2016 4:41:06 PM

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interesting note on "leaking":

i usually test a new tank for leaks with some plain juice before i fill it with spice-infused juice. the tank will appear sound; seals tight, no leaks whatsoever.

i then replace the coil, make sure everything is perfect, load up with spice-juice and use it. i find that after a day or two, it starts leaking, usually from the airflow vents. i suspect the small seal that is at the bottom of the coils. i wonder if there is something that happens with the viscosity or chemical nature of the juice after spice is mixed in that enables this?

obviously, i use small tanks only and don't load up too much at a time. loading up a 4 or 5ml tank to the brim and letting it sit for a while is a recipe for a messy heartbreak...

this is why i tried the RDA/dripper route - didn't work for me, sadly...
 
Studio1one
#80 Posted : 10/26/2016 9:16:37 PM

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still no reports on 'e-changa' then?

really keen to try this.
Quote:

Darkness cannot banish darkness, only light can do that

Hate cannot banish hate, only love can do that.
 
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