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What substance could this have been? Options
 
dragonrider
#1 Posted : 9/23/2016 8:47:08 PM

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When i was a lot younger, in 1994 to be exactly, i had a few blotters with the picture of a sun against a blue background on it. I've taken those blotters on two occasions. The first time i took three of them and the second time, i took four.

The effects where very psychedelic, but definately not like LSD at all. On both occasions, there was a very strong spiritual vibe. Almost like a religious experience.

Some people think that LSD causes a state that is simmilar to a psychosis, but to be honest, i think that's bullshit because LSD doesn't realy impair your ability to think rationally. These blotters however...i don't think i've ever been closer to madness than after i had taken these blotters.
Everything, even trivial and tiny things, like seeing a blue flower somewhere, suddenly had a deeper meaning. Everything was filled with magic. It was realy like "wow, a Pepsi ad...that means hercules is coming".
The best way i can describe the effects, is, like being in a Terry gilliam movie.
The visual effects where definately milder than the visual effects of LSD. I would say that they where somewhere in between the visual effects of LSD and those of large quantity's of cannabis.

On both occasions, the effects kicked in, about an hour after ingestion, and lasted for way over 18 hours.

I think it must have been a DOx. But i'm not sure.
 

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universecannon
#2 Posted : 9/23/2016 9:05:14 PM



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dragonrider wrote:
When i was a lot younger, in 1994 to be exactly, i had a few blotters with the picture of a sun against a blue background on it. I've taken those blotters on two occasions. The first time i took three of them and the second time, i took four.

The effects where very psychedelic, but definately not like LSD at all. On both occasions, there was a very strong spiritual vibe. Almost like a religious experience.


What makes you think LSD can't precipitate heavy spiritual experiences? It can be extremely variable not only person to person but experience to experience, but deep experiences are by no means uncommon.

dragonrider wrote:

Some people think that LSD causes a state that is simmilar to a psychosis, but to be honest, i think that's bullshit because LSD doesn't realy impair your ability to think rationally.


It may not have impaired your ability to think rationally in your experiences, but please don't make the mistake of projecting that onto everyones trips. I assure you that countless people, myself included, have completely lost their marbles on LSD at some point or other Laughing


dragonrider wrote:

These blotters however...i don't think i've ever been closer to madness than after i had taken these blotters.
Everything, even trivial and tiny things, like seeing a blue flower somewhere, suddenly had a deeper meaning. Everything was filled with magic. It was realy like "wow, a Pepsi ad...that means hercules is coming".
The best way i can describe the effects, is, like being in a Terry gilliam movie.
The visual effects where definately milder than the visual effects of LSD. I would say that they where somewhere in between the visual effects of LSD and those of large quantity's of cannabis.

On both occasions, the effects kicked in, about an hour after ingestion, and lasted for way over 18 hours.

I think it must have been a DOx. But i'm not sure.


If it lasted over 18 hours then it very well sounds like it could have been something else. I'm not sure what was being passed off as LSD in the early 90's though.

Luckily these days test kits are like 25 bucks Thumbs up
The Nexian


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dragonrider
#3 Posted : 9/23/2016 10:19:24 PM

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universecannon wrote:
dragonrider wrote:
When i was a lot younger, in 1994 to be exactly, i had a few blotters with the picture of a sun against a blue background on it. I've taken those blotters on two occasions. The first time i took three of them and the second time, i took four.

The effects where very psychedelic, but definately not like LSD at all. On both occasions, there was a very strong spiritual vibe. Almost like a religious experience.


What makes you think LSD can't precipitate heavy spiritual experiences? It can be extremely variable not only person to person but experience to experience, but deep experiences are by no means uncommon.

Oh, i didn't mean that LSD experiences are void of a spiritual element. In fact, i find LSD a very spiritual sort of substance.
I just meant to say that this 'mysterious' sun-blotter did contain a genuine psychedelic substance. It wasn't LSD, but it sure as hell wasn't bad either. It was crazy, bizarre, and weird as shit, but i realy liked it.
There was no toxic kind of feeling, no hangover.

If only i knew what it was. Because i think i'd definately like to try it again sometime.
 
ducdevil
#4 Posted : 9/23/2016 10:48:59 PM

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in the 60's, DOM was distributed as "STP" (serenity, tranquility and peace)
while the dose seems a bit high to fit on a blotter, it might not be impossible.
the experiences lasted between 14-20 hours on average.
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#5 Posted : 9/24/2016 12:44:45 PM
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A good deal of the 2,5-dimethoxy-4-substituted-amphetamines are active at 1-3mgs and can be placed on blotters, DOM has a rich and fascinating history, unfortunately I'm too tired to write it out myself, so I copy and pasted pieces of Wikipedia pages to tell the tale...

Quote:
In mid-1967, tablets containing 20 mg (later 10 mg) of DOM were widely distributed in the Haight-Ashbury District of San Francisco under the name of STP. This short-lived appearance of DOM on the black market proved disastrous for several reasons. First, the tablets contained an excessively high dose of the chemical. This, combined with DOM’s slow onset of action (which encouraged some users, familiar with drugs that have quicker onsets, such as LSD, to re-dose) and its remarkably long duration, caused many users to panic and sent some to the emergency room. Second, treatment of such overdoses was complicated by the fact that no one at the time knew that the tablets called STP were, in fact, DOM.

STP was distributed in the summer of 1967 in 20 mg tablets and quickly acquired a bad reputation (later research in normal volunteers showed that 20mg was over six times the dose required to produce hallucinogenic effects, and its slow onset of action may have caused street users to take even more than a single tablet). [15] Stanley and Scully made trial batches of STP in 10 mg tablets and then of STP mixed with LSD in a few hundred yellow tablets, but soon ceased production of STP. Stanley and Scully produced about 196 grams of LSD in 1967, but 96 grams of this was confiscated by the police.

In late 1967, Stanley's La Espiral, Orinda lab was raided by police; he was found in possession of 350,000 doses of LSD and 1,500 doses of STP. His defense was that the illegal substances were for personal use, but he was found guilty and sentenced to three years in prison. The same year, Stanley officially shortened his name to "Owsley Stanley". After he was released from prison, Stanley did more sound work for the Grateful Dead and later worked as a broadcast television engineer. On January 31, 1970, at 3:00 am, 19 members of the Grateful Dead and crew were arrested for possession of a variety of drugs at a French Quarter hotel, after returning from a concert at "The Warehouse" in New Orleans.

-Wikipedia



Hmmm...it was the 90s so no N-benzyl-methoxy-phenethylamines yet...it's damn near impossible to say, the the dose range helps narrow it down...

It could be DOx series compounds...as I mentioned above, however DOB, DOI or DOC may be more likely than DOM.

...it could be lysergamide compounds such Lysergic acid 2,4-dimethylazetidide which was said to have been sold on the illicit market, however this was on lambda marked blotters. Or perhaps the xxx-LAD series AL-LAD or ETH-LAD, though due to the chromatography process needed to produce XXX-LAD series compounds, and because you need LSD to produce the NOR-LSD needed for xxx-LAD compounds synthesis, it's not likely you would see these compounds being produced in clandestine labs and sold on the streets...they are only around in modern times because of the research chemical market.

Or maybe it was simply LSD.

Honestly, who knows though, look at what psychedelic compounds which are active in under 2mg dose that were popular in the mid 90s...

Plenty of clues, but you will probably never know for sure.

-eg
 
benzyme
#6 Posted : 9/24/2016 9:24:16 PM

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DOI is active at 2mg.
a friend once offered me some, dissolved in alcohol. I declined.
the experience lasts 18-24 hrs.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
nexalizer
#7 Posted : 9/25/2016 12:49:32 AM

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dragonrider wrote:
[...]i think that's bullshit because LSD doesn't realy impair your ability to think rationally [...]


lol, lol.
This is the time to really find out who you are and enjoy every moment you have. Take advantage of it.
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#8 Posted : 9/25/2016 12:23:31 PM
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benzyme wrote:
DOI is active at 2mg.
a friend once offered me some, dissolved in alcohol. I declined.
the experience lasts 18-24 hrs.


Shulgin reports threshold effects from 2,5-dimethoxy-4-iodo-amphetamine (DOI) at 600ugs.

Quote:
(with 0.6 mg) There was a nice spacey light-headedness for a few hours, and time seemed to move quite slowly. Then a generic sadness came over me, as I reminisced about earlier days (recalling pleasures now gone) and wondered if I would be allowed to be here on the Farm when I am old and not important. There is so much to be done, and I cannot do it all, and no one else cares. My mood became present-day and healthy by about the seventh hour. -shulgin;PIHKAL


almost all the DOx compounds are listed in PIHKAL as being active at 1 to 3 milligrams.

Quote:

DOI
DOSAGE: 1.5 - 3.0 mg
DURATION: 16 - 30 h.
-PIHKAL

DOB
DOSAGE: 1.0 - 3.0 mg.
DURATION: 18 - 30 h

DOC
DOSAGE: 1.5 - 3.0 mg.
DURATION: 12 - 24 h.

-PIHKAL



I can tell you from experience, 1.5mgs of DOB is more than enough, DOC was about the same...

I was one of the only people who seemed to enjoy the rush of DOx blotters that proceeded the influx of N-benzyl-methoxy-phenethylamines (NBOMe compounds), possibly because I knew I had a DOx, it was not sold to me as LSD, and because the duration and stimulant side effects never bothered me. Visually, very LSD like, psychologically they are different though...

-eg
 
benzyme
#9 Posted : 9/26/2016 6:27:57 AM

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any idea of what the Ki values are?
IIRC, DOB only exerts partial 5HT2a agonism
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted." ~ hassan i sabbah
"Experiments are the only means of attaining knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -Max Planck
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#10 Posted : 9/26/2016 1:34:27 PM
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benzyme wrote:
any idea of what the Ki values are?
IIRC, DOB only exerts partial 5HT2a agonism


Here's an article on binding affinity of LSD and DOI to 5HT receptors:

Quote:
Abstract
Correlations between 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT) receptor binding affinities and human hallucinogenic potency have suggested that 5-HT2 receptors mediate the hallucinogenic effects of lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) and phenethylamine hallucinogens. Electrophysiological studies have suggested that a subpopulation of gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA)ergic interneurons in layer III of the rat piriform cortex are excited by serotonin (5-HT) via 5-HT2A receptors. These interneurons have inhibitory inputs on pyramidal cells in layer II. In the present study, we tested low concentrations of both LSD (3-100 nM) and the phenethylamine hallucinogen 1-(2,5-dimethoxy-4-iodophenyl-2-aminopropane (DOI; 0.3-10 microM) on rat piriform cortical interneurons that were excited by 5-HT. Both LSD (3-100 nM) and DOI (0.3-10 microM) excited almost every cell excited by 5-HT. The maximal excitation achieved with LSD and DOI was 39% and 55% of the effect of a near-maximal 5-HT concentration (100 microM). Consistent with a partial agonist action, LSD and DOI blocked the 5-HT excitation of piriform cortical interneurons only at the higher hallucinogen concentrations tested. A specific 5-HT2A receptor antagonist, MDL 100,907, blocked excitation of these interneurons by 5-HT, LSD and DOI, but not by norepinephrine or alpha-amino-3-hydroxy-5-methyl-4-isoxazole-propionate. Again, consistent with a partial agonist action of the hallucinogens, intracellular experiments showed that a maximal concentration of DOI (10 microM) induced fewer postsynaptic inhibitory currents than did 5-HT (100 microM) in pyramidal neurons in layer II of the piriform cortex. Based on the present electrophysiological studies, we conclude that LSD and DOI, a phenethylamine hallucinogen, act as highly potent partial agonists at cortical 5-HT2A receptors.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8819525


-eg
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#11 Posted : 9/26/2016 1:37:53 PM
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benzyme wrote:
any idea of what the Ki values are?
IIRC, DOB only exerts partial 5HT2a agonism


Quote:
DOB: 4.00 5ht2b, 3.23 5ht2a, 2.97 5ht2c, 2.11 Beta2, 1.89 5ht7, 1.82 Alpha2C, 1.79 5ht1d, 1.68 D3, 1.62 5ht1b, 1.53 M3, 1.44 5ht1e, 1.41 Alpha2B, 1.39 Imidazoline1, 1.25 Sigma1, 1.21 Beta1, 1.18 5ht1a, 0.96 Alpha2A, 0.87 5ht5a, 0.85 5ht6, 0.66 SERT, 0.63 H1; 0.00: D5, D2, D4, NET, D1, Alpha1B, Sigma2, DOR, KOR, MOR, M1, M2, DAT, M4, M5, Alpha1A, H2, CB2, CB1, Ca+Channel, NMDA
http://journals.plos.org...09019#pone.0009019.s001


-eg
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#12 Posted : 9/26/2016 2:05:41 PM
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This may be off topic a bit, but while searching for a DOI or DOB binding affinity research paper which was on topic to this thread, I became sidetracked, remember that at sub-psychedelic dose that DOI reduces inflammation...


Quote:
Tania: Switching gears to the Iodo compounds, like DOI, did you mention that these are anti-inflammatory?

Dave: Yeah, that's very weird.

Tania: Some guy called in to Sasha's office, saying that he had rheumatoid arthritis, and he took 2C-I, and for two weeks he was pain-free. Which makes me wonder about medical applications for the Iodo compounds...

Dave: My son Chuck discovered that accidentally. He's an associate professor at Louisiana State University in New Orleans. He wanted to work with 5-HT2 agonists, because he's looking at serotonin receptors in Drosophila, and doing translational stuff into rats. He asked, "Is there a 5-HT2A agonist that's not a controlled substance that I can use?" Since DOI was not controlled, I sent him the isomers of DOI.

His team had been using rat aortic epithelial cells--cells from the inside of a rat's blood vessels--and looking at models of atherosclerosis. The model they'd been using was to take these cells, and put in TNF-alpha (tumor necrosis factor-alpha), a pro-inflammatory substance. If you've seen the advertisements for Enbrel, for arthritis, drugs such as that block TNF-alpha receptors, so they block the pain. What they would do is put TNF-alpha directly into these cells and then they would look at what effect occurred in combination with other compounds--there were four or five compounds that they were looking at.

So his post-doc had some of those cells that were grown up and could be used, and he asked my son, "What if I run a test with one of our compounds in these?" And Chuck said, "Well, I don't have any anti-inflammatory compounds right now." "What about this DOI here?" Chuck laughed and replied, "That's a hallucinogen. That won't do anything." The post-doc said, "Well, I'm going to have to destroy the cells. Can I just go ahead and test it?" And Chuck said, "Yeah, go ahead." The guy came back a week and a half later and said, "The DOI completely blocked TNF-alpha at 20 picomolar." Which is like unbelievable, right?

Chuck said, "Nah. You made a mistake." So Chuck went in, made up his own fresh solutions, took the cells, ran the experiment, and reproduced the guy's data. He wrote me back and asked, "Is there any precedent for this?" And I said, "No, not that I know of." So he published a paper in J PET; it was the featured paper in the issue it was published in. This has extraordinary potency; there's no anti-inflammatory that has potency like that.

Jon: The dose levels you mentioned would not be psychoactive, so perhaps that's something that could be developed into a commercial medication.

Dave: Exactly, exactly. I've sent him a bunch of isomers. But so far he hasn't found anything that's as potent as DOI. And the thing is, the affinity of DOI at the human receptor is like one nanomolar, or around there; so at the concentrations he's using, the amount of receptor that's actually occupied has to be incredibly small. There is some mechanism here that nobody really understands; and that was a big controversy when he sent the paper in. People were like, "What is this?"


-eg
 
 
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