Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide, lysergic acid amide, lysergic acid, d-isolysergic acid amide (isoergine), chanoclavine, elymoclavine, are all found in species of morning glory...and it very well may be a combination effect, though in my opinion there's nothing psychedelic here...

I have taken pure lysergic acid amide, and there is an intoxication, but it's mostly body distress, nausea, and sedation, not at all what I would call psychedelic...

As for the seeds, I've taken HBWR, ipomea tricolor/violacea, Rivea corymbosa, and so on...

Every time there is an intoxication, but again, I would not call it psychedelic, or even very pleasant for the most part...

My experiance has always been very similar to.Albert Hoffman's when he was bioassaying these compounds:

I've never been able to produce psychedelia from morning glory seeds, or any of the compounds they contain...

...I'm not saying they are not active, they do produce intoxication, but it's not psychedelic...

People will argue and claim I'm wrong, which is fine, I'm only saying that in my experience, I've never been able to get these seeds to do anything psychedelic, or the pure compounds in the seeds...Hoffman failed as well, as did shulgin, and while the seeds are an intoxicant, and have history as being Entheogenic, I think saying they are psychedelic is a misnomer, and misleading.

Seriously, you are eating good precursors, a reaction involving lysergic acid and diethylamine is by far the way to go...

-eg

Maybe it's just me...

Maybe it's my biochemistry that causes me to feel poisoned and foggy every time...

Even terence mckenna swears by these seeds...

It's said seeds can be an acquired taste, and while the potential for these lsd-like experiences is there, it's more of the exception than the rule...
https://www.erowid.org/l...ues_dekorne_complete.pdf
Page 76 of these PDF fully relates to this conversation...I'm going to transcribe it so I can copy and paste it here...

-eg

Hmm, for me the purpose of starting this thread was actually not to see how seeds compare to LSD. My point was 1-that i believe that some lysergamides are extremely synergistic, 2-That in any case where seeds produce LSD-like effects, this synergy must be part of the explanation of this phenomenon. There's probably some potentiation going on with LSH, wich looks a lot more like LSD than LSA does.

And LSA, in all likelyhood, has a negative effect on the psychedelic effect of these seeds. the higher the LSA content, the less psychedelic the seeds will be, as old seeds seemed to significantly diminish the effects of 1P-LSD.

Or at least, that's what i've experienced.

And when i, intrigued as i was by this potential synergy, started googling all possible combinations of lysergamides, i ended up on bluelight, where there actually are a bunch of guys who claim that combining two different lysergamides (like eth-LAD, Al-LAD, etc.) has a sort of 1+1=3 effect.

I'm just interested to see whether this is consistently so.

LA-111, ergine, d-lysergamide. This is an active compound and has been established as a major component in morning glory seeds. It was assayed for human activity, by Albert Hofmann in self-trials back in 1947, well before this was known to be a natural compound. An i.m. administration of a 500 microgram dose led to a tired, dreamy state with an inability to maintain clear thoughts. After a short period of sleep, the effects were gone and normal baseline was recovered within five hours. Other observers have confirmed this clouding of consciousness leading to sleep. The epimer, inverted at C-8, is isoergine or d-isolysergamide, and is also a component of morning glory seeds. Hofmann tried a 2 milligram dose of this amide, and as with ergine, he experienced nothing but tiredness, apathy, and a feeling of emptiness.

Both compounds are probably correctly dismissed as not being a contributor to the action of these seeds.

It is important to note that ergine, as well as lysergic acid itself, is listed as a Schedule III drug in the Controlled Substances Act, as a depressant. This is, in all probability, a stratagem to control them as logical precursors to LSD. -shulgin/TIHKAL

"The slight difference in chemical structure between the ololiuqui constituents and LSD is very significant with regard to hallucinogenic acitivity. The effective oral dose in man of LSD is 0.05 mg [which] is thus about 50 to 100 times more active than lysergic acid amide, which is active in doses of 2 to 5 mg. Furthermore there is not only a quantitative difference between the principles of Ipomoea violacea and Turbina corymbosa and LSD; there is likewise a qualitative one, LSD being a very specific hallucinogen, whereas the psychic effects of lysergic acid amide and the total alkaloids of these two plants are characterized by a pronounced narcotic component (Hofmann, 1968 )

2-me-DMT:

(with 50 mg, orally) "There was tingling everywhere but it faded after about three hours. Nothing else."

(with 75 mg, orally) "Very mild stomach rumbling during the first hour, with no other effects until the 65 minute point. Then there was the onset of as very mild relaxed feeling followed by intermittent skin alerting, especially on the head and neck. No visuals. Sexual activity at 90 minutes showed marked enhancement of both the pre-climactic and orgasmic phase, which was confirmed by repeat activity at 120 and 180 minutes. When I switched on TV to a familiar news announcer, I thought that he had a cold because his voice sounded lower than normal, and throaty. Later I picked up a phone to call a friend and both the dial tone and the touch-tones sounded very unusual. Music at this point sounded normal, but I am sure that some tonal perception was altered by this drug. The effects seemed almost gone by 4 hours and were undetectable by 5 hours. Appetite seemed unaffected throughout, and dinner at the 5-hour point was very good. No GI problems occurred, and there were no after effects the next day."

(with 90 mg, orally) "The entire body was becoming activated (in a good way) but not much going on in the head. I am mentally clear but with the entire touch system a bit more activated than I would choose. This peaked at 3 hours, and was gone in another 3 hours. Everything is tactile."shulgin;TIHKAL

If not LSA (which is active), than what compound do you propose is responsible? Lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide?, d-isolysergic acid amide (isoergine)?, chanoclavine?, elymoclavine? A combination?

Have you repeated the experiment to be sure 1P and seeds consistently produce this intensified effect?

Have you given others the 1P and seeds combination and evaluated their responses, in an attempt to confirm that the phenomena is not unique to yourself?

What ratio of seeds vs. 1P produced these effects?

The people who can not get off on the seeds are, in my experience, the exception. Most people I know who have used ergoline containing seeds are able to achieve psychedelic effects. That is not to say that most people enjoy the experience enough to repeat it. Most people do prefer LSD. It's the odd person here or there I come across who seems to not be able to get to a psychedelic state after trying various batches/species.

I have had batches of morning glories that produced no effects aside from mild sedation and some nausea consistently. Others always produce clear psychedelic effects, very similar to LSD once the nausea clears up after the come up stage. When you have good fresh seeds the experience can be quiet powerful and is not to be underestimated. I spent a good amount of time playing with HWBR in the last two years, as well as a good number of acid trips over the past year. I do prefer LSD, however the seeds should be respected as a true psychedelic with the power to produce effects on par with the others.

ritual preparation method is more or less the same for all the ancient peoples of Oaxaca. A dosage consists of twenty-six seeds. The seeds would be ground by a ten to fifteen year-old virgin, then mixed with water. This method was thought to allow the seeds to “speak.” This concoction would then be imbibed by a high ranking priest who would combine his shamanic wisdom with the magic of this sacred drink in order to converse with the gods (Ratsch 199, 299).
The high priest would wear a headdress; an ornately beaded head of a jaguar. The jaguar is the symbol of the sun, and is thought to be the shaman’s power animal and ally throughout his spiritual journey. It was believed that a high ranking priest could change himself into a jaguar and, once connected with his power animal through the ritual ingestion of a potion that included morning glory seeds, he would be led through a dramatic visionary experience wherein the he obtained his special abilities and powers by dying as a person and being reborn as a shaman. Once reborn as a shaman, he could convene with the Sun Gods (Reichel-Dolmatoff 197.
According to Schuldes, 20-50 seeds composes a low dose, 50-150 a moderate dose, and 300+ seeds a high dose. He only observed effects similar to other popular psychedelics with a strong dose of about 300 seeds (Schuldes 1993 cited in Ratsch 1998, 299). If fresher seeds are used, significantly fewer should be necessary – the Zapotec only consume 7 seeds or a multiple thereof, or 13 seeds or a multiple thereof, or approximately a thimble-full. Others have recommended chewing and swallowing 5-19 g of seeds, or grinding them and letting them sit in water for thirty minutes before consuming (Voogelbreinder 2009, 200). The ground seeds may also be smoked for a mild, euphoric high lasting about 1 hour. It is essential to only use organic, untreated morning glory seeds in the case of smoking, as combustion of chemicals can make them much more dangerous. http://entheology.com/pl...-violacea-morning-glory/

I think LSH probably plays a role in the psychedelic effects.

I have repeated the experiment with 1P, but with a much lower dose, as i was realy scared shitless by how powerfull it was the first time. The second time i experienced a significant enhancement and alteration as well.
But i have never heard of anybody else combining morning glory seeds with LSD or 1P.
These 8 people on bluelight i mentioned are the only one's i know of, who have combined different lysergamides, and they all claimed that it was extremely synergistic.

But yes, i have the same questions as you. That's actually why i started this thread, and why i put it in the collaborative research section. Just to put it out there and see if somebody else has had simmilar experiences.

If at some point it would turn out that people consistently experience this potentiation, that would be realy nice.
I mean, if you consistently could get better, deeper experiences with much smaller quantities....well, i can think of several reasons why that would be realy great news.

is it really possible that out of all my attempts I simply did not do it properly?

This is the question that constantly lingers in my mind, then I'll attempt an experiment, and be disappointed...

Here's something funny I heard terence mckenna say:

A crowd member asks him about preparation, this person said he de-shelled and crushed the seeds, then strained them through cold water, discarding the plant matter he drank the water...

And mckenna says, no, this is wrong, you strain them through water, the water leaches the convulsive lysergamide compounds and is discarded, and you eat the filter-cake of seed mush.

Though most traditional ethnobotanical researchers claim it is the liquid which is drunk and not the filter-cake being eaten.


I can't imagine lysergamide compounds being smokable...I can't imagine them becoming "more dangerous" when smoked, toxic combustion by-products? Who knows...

Jamie is likely right, there are probably a minority of people like myself who can't get the seeds to do anything psychedelic, they do provide intense intoxication, however it's a dreamy, poisoned, nauseated type intoxication, any way, the people who can't get them to work may be a bitter minority in this case.

-eg

I just dump the seeds in warm water from the tap then wash everything down including seeds

Proceed with a water extraction from the seed meal: Soak the meal in water and then filter off the water with a coffee filter, discarding the filter and solid matter, keeping the water.

Evaporate all the water until only a brown sludge remains. Do this maintaining the lowest possible temperature since lysergic compounds break down at relatively low temperatures. If you have access to a vacuum pump, use it. If you can perform this processing 5-10,000 feet above sea level or higher, do so. Otherwise, try blowing a fan across a flat pan such as a cookie sheet or pizza pan.

When only sludge remains, redissolve it in alcohol, perform any shamanic rituals desired with this material, then filter again and drink. https://www.erowid.org/p.../morning_glory_faq.shtml

Based on my experiences I believe the following to be true (though am wide-open to getting "scientific"/factual refutation/corroboration. In addition to the lysergic amides present in the seeds, there are two chemicals or chemical complexes which are toxic. One of these, relatively mild, is associated with nausea and is contained in the seed pulp. This is soluble in water and will form long 'strands' in it which are clearly visible. This material can be processed into a kind of 'soap' which lathers somewhat. It is not soluble in alcohol nor petroleum ether. This is evidenced by soaking the spent powder in water.

A second chemical or complex is much more malicious. Ingesting it results in headache, blurred and 'fish-eye' vision, and it also seems to counteract the psychedelic effect. For lack of a better term with the expectation that it is chemically non-descriptive, we will call this the 'strychnine effect' and the associated compound(s) the 'strychnine factor'. This factor is contained in the seed husk and is miscible with petroleum ether but only slightly soluble in water. If you chew the seeds you break the husk but do not usually chew it well enough to digest. Same thing if you pulverize the seeds with a hammer or similiar instrument before eating or swallowing. In both cases, the 'strychnine effect' is not observed except as background. However the high is not as lucid and bright as when the factor is removed. On the other hand, if you grind the seeds into powder and do not remove the 'styrchnine factor' with petroleum ether (or other solvent(?)) but ingest the powder itself, you will experience the 'strychnine effect' in great and unpleasant intensity. If you put the powder in water, filter the water, and drink it (effectively the traditional method for indigenous peoples), the nausea factor will be pronounced, but the 'strychnine effect' will be weak. https://www.erowid.org/p.../morning_glory_faq.shtml

anytime you want a prodrug of a tryptamine with an hydroxy group at position 4, you can just substitute the hydroxy grouping with an acetoxy grouping, the acetoxy grouping will become a hydroxy grouping in vivo...at least this seems to be the case.

So, 4-acetoxy-DMT becomes 4-ho-DMT in vivo...4-acetoxy-MET becomes 4-ho-MET in vivo, and so on.

Even with 1-acetyl-LSD this seems to be the case, minus the oxygen because you want an NH grouping at position 1, so it's an acetyl grouping rather than an acetoxy grouping. so the acetyl grouping connected to the nitrogen of the pyrrole ring Returns to a hydrogen atom, restoring the NH grouping of the pyrrole ring, giving LSD in vivo.

With 1-propionyl-LSD, just as above, only using a propionyl grouping at position one of LSD, the propionyl grouping becomes the needed hydrogen atom in vivo to form the NH grouping of the pyrrole ring, giving LSD...

I wonder if 4-propionyloxy-DMT would become 4-ho-DMT in vivo...
-eg

LSD Oral Dosages
·Threshold
25 ug

·Light
25 - 75 ug

·Common
50 - 150 ug

·Strong
150 - 400 ug
Heavy

·400 + ug

-erowid

2-me-DMT:

(with 50 mg, orally) "There was tingling everywhere but it faded after about three hours. Nothing else."

(with 75 mg, orally) "Very mild stomach rumbling during the first hour, with no other effects until the 65 minute point. Then there was the onset of as very mild relaxed feeling followed by intermittent skin alerting, especially on the head and neck. No visuals. Sexual activity at 90 minutes showed marked enhancement of both the pre-climactic and orgasmic phase, which was confirmed by repeat activity at 120 and 180 minutes. When I switched on TV to a familiar news announcer, I thought that he had a cold because his voice sounded lower than normal, and throaty. Later I picked up a phone to call a friend and both the dial tone and the touch-tones sounded very unusual. Music at this point sounded normal, but I am sure that some tonal perception was altered by this drug. The effects seemed almost gone by 4 hours and were undetectable by 5 hours. Appetite seemed unaffected throughout, and dinner at the 5-hour point was very good. No GI problems occurred, and there were no after effects the next day."

(with 90 mg, orally) "The entire body was becoming activated (in a good way) but not much going on in the head. I am mentally clear but with the entire touch system a bit more activated than I would choose. This peaked at 3 hours, and was gone in another 3 hours. Everything is tactile."shulgin;TIHKAL

AL-LAD
DOSAGE : 80 - 160 micrograms
DURATION : 6 - 8 h.
QUALITATIVE COMMENTS : (with 50 µg) "I am aware in twenty minutes, and am into a stoned place, not too LSD like, in another hour. I would very much like to push higher, but that is not in the cards today and I must acknowledge recovery by hour eight."

(with 80 µg) "I had a mild effect, although the doors to my repressed feelings somehow really become opened up. There was nothing transcendental here, but there were moments where I felt a conscious separation from the world about me. None of the profound meanings that I had hoped to have explained were explained."

(with 150 µg) "I felt it in less than a quarter hour, and was shooting up past a +++ in another quarter hour. Fast. Just like LSD but without the vaguely sinister push. A little time slowing, randy, no body disturbance. Dropping at six hours and totally tired and going to sleep at twelve hours. I will repeat."

(with 150 µg) "Simply beautiful. Erotic and music absorption after second hour. Clear thinking with superb imagery and good interpretation. Easy, gentle sleeping. Next day -- serene, clear-thinking peacefulness. One of the best materials ever."

(with 160 µg) "I pretreated myself with 40 milligrams of inderal 40 minutes beforehand, took the AL-LAD, and went to bed with eye-shades and ear-phones. There was a very slow onset. The effects were best described as very short bursts of loss of contact with my body, which became increasingly intense and frequent as things progressed. It became really trippy, like acid. There were no visuals with my eyes closed, but when I removed my eye-shades the floors were melting, and the wall patterns and the wood ceiling really flowed. My body felt very blob-like, and I had to get help from my sitter to get up so I could pee. I was very affected by music. There was a very long down-ramp, with physical excitation appearing to linger longer than psychic excitation. Pretty much out of it by 12 hours and I felt well the next day."

(with 200 µg) "This was taken on the tail end (seventh hour) of an MDMA experience. I felt it quickly, but it never got to a super level. Complicated erotic, good talking, looked pretty stoned, and yet I still had cognitive integrity.

EXTENSIONS AND COMMENTARY: This is one of the several very potent compounds in a large series of 5-alkylated analogues of nor-LSD. Most of them proved to be less potent than LSD, and considerably less dramatic. The Inderal mentioned in one of the comments is a trade name for propranolol, an antihypertensive that reduces nervousness.

ETH-LAD
DOSAGE : 40 to 150 micrograms, orally

DURATION : 8 - 12 hrs

QUALITATIVE COMMENTS : (with 20 µgs, orally) "This has a very real effect at this level, whereas I have no response at all from LSD at 20 mikes."

(with 50 µgs, orally) "This is already coming on in fifteen minutes, and is completely developed in another hour. Very few visual changes or distortions but easy eyes-closed imagery. Pretty much out after ten hours; it was a good, repeatable experiment."

(with 60 µgs, orally) "In about an hour or so, gentle movements of the house plants were noted. The walkway of the painting above the fireplace changed as if the sunny spots were moving ahead. The visual aspects became more LSD-like after a couple more hours, though in a very gentle way. The spider windowpane looked three-dimensional: at first I thought the windows were double-paned, but they were not. Stones, rocks and glass had a magical look to them, but tree bark looked like tree bark. Occasionally, a dark streak (spot) would go through the visual field and a page of a book would move sharply without effort. These aspects were very pleasant to me."

with 100 µgs, orally) "It sort of sneaks up on you. Certainly not the push of LSD and, sadly, not the sparkle either. Possible time slowing. Easy sleep and no price to pay the next day."

(with 150 µgs, orally) "Extraordinary experience, none of the demands of LSD, just a completely together trip. There were hints of tummy discomfort and some chills early in the trial, but they were trivial and quickly passed. Fine music, and fine sex."

EXTENSIONS AND COMMENTARY : What a remarkable compound. It is a little more potent than LSD, but much less aggressive in the nature of its action. There appears to be little if any of the push, the taking control nature, of LSD and a greatly modified degree of visual distortion. The warmth and humor appears to be there, but all seems more allowing rather than demanding.

PRO-LAD
DOSAGE : 100 - 200 micrograms, orally
DURATION : 6 - 8 hrs

QUALITATIVE COMMENTS : (with 80 µg, orally) "I am aware of some change within a quarter hour, and then nothing more for quite a while. Certainly no visuals, almost like MDMA in that I am not really sure that this is even psychedelic -- it does not have any of the flavor of LSD. I want to try it at a higher dose some day."

(with 135 µg, orally) "A strange development into a sort of paranoia place, without any reasonable dialog with my partner. A light-headed experience of a different kind, but we did not find common space. Not too comfortable -- emotions are dull. At about mid-experience, considerable visuals came into play, with easy fantasy interlocking with music. Brüchner's viola quintette in A produced extraordinary castle frames within castle walls. Emotions were reknit, food was good, and sleep fine at the 8th or 9th hour. It is not up to LSD (if that is your standard) because it is basically not like LSD."

(with 175 µg, orally) "This is an intellectually clear material, but it is a funny material. I am certainly at a +++ or at least I was a couple of hours ago. How does one describe PRO-LAD? It's not-quite-this and not-quite-that sort of stuff. Or, to borrow from Winnie-the-Pooh, 'It's not at the bottom, and it's not at the top (but this is the stair where I always stop)' -- oh, never mind. I mean, I'm not sure how to categorize this material. It's pleasant, it's fine for fooling around, it's good for humor, even excellent. It's very good for clear thinking, although not cosmic-type particularly. It's a sort of nice, comfortable, middle-American, July-Fourth-Picnic, apple-pie with ice cream sort of psychedelic, the kind that you can wrap up in gold and white striped paper for your youngest aunt, the one who likes to think she's really a bit wild, you know -- the kind of psychedelic that's a bit much for your Dad or Mom, but it's just jazzy enough to keep some younger relatives happy with you for a few months. However, I must tell you, kid, if you try to bring this to the Big Town, well... It is pretty much dropped off, now. Ah'm gonna lie mahself on down."

EXTENSIONS AND COMMENTARY : With success in the preparation of the rather stable nor-LSD intermediate, any number of 6-substituted nor-LSD homologues and analogues can be synthesized. Simply use the appropriate alkyl bromide or alkyl iodide and the desired product will be in hand, after a modest amount of rather sophisticated purification at a micro scale. Several analogues are in the chemical literature, and some of them have been explored in direct comparison to LSD. Here are a few examples:

N-Propynyl-nor-LSD (PARGY-LAD). Some activity at 160 µg. Active at 500 µg.

N-Butyl-nor-LSD (BU-LAD). Something at 500 µg.

N-Phenethyl-nor-LSD (PHENETH-LAD). Nothing at 500 µg.

As these substituents get heavier and heavier, the potency of the products drop by an order of magnitude or so, or even more. But here, in this N-substituted nor-LSD family, there is a fantastic research opportunity just waiting to be exploited, an exact parallel to the radio-iodine labeling of DOI as was described in PIHKAL. It is a good guess that this position is one of good metabolic stability. So what about putting on a small group that can be labeled with a reasonably long-lived positron isotope? A specific proposal: N-(2-fluoroethyl)-nor-LSD with an 18-F radio-label. The compound should be makable rather quickly (nor-LSD and 18FCH2CH2I in DMF with potassium carbonate) and cleanly purified by centrifugal chromatography, all well within the almost two hour half-life considerations of radio-fluorine. Here is a group that would be (in theory) intrinsic to the central activity of the end product, N-(2-fluoroethyl)-nor-LSD. The end compound could be synthesized, purified, characterized and sterilized quickly, allowing its brain localization and central dynamics to be determined by PET scanning, with virtually no risk to the subject. Let's call it FLUORETH-LAD.

Lysergic acid 2,4-dimethylazetidide
DOSE:
·Threshold - 10 ug
·Light - 50 - 100 ug
·Common - 100 - 300 ug
·Strong - 200+ ug

LSZ is an ergoloid most commonly found on blotter. LSZ has three stereoisomers and one of the three is substantially more potent than the other three. A racemic mixture of LSZ (not stereo pure for the most potent S,S isomer) will have different effective dosages than S,S-pure LSZ.

LSZ is chemically related to LSD active at similar dosages, with one of its isomers more potent in rats than d-LSD. LSZ sold on white blotter became commercially available in mid 2013. LSZ is one of a group of ergoloids developed by David Nichols' lab at Purdue in the early 2000s, but there are unconfirmed reports that LSZ was previously available on blotter prior to Nichols' first publication. LSZ has three stereoisomers, one (S,S) is substantially more potent than the other three.

https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsz/lsz.shtml