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Hypothetical: Cops are knocking on my door, oh no what do?! Options
 
cy6nu5
#1 Posted : 6/22/2016 4:51:23 AM
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Last visit: 17-Feb-2019
Hello officer, to what do I owe the pleasure of seeing your fat bald greasy head? May I invite you in to show you all of my bongs and paraphernlia?
... is exactly what not to say.

Chances are, local police are NEVER going to show up at your door asking you about DMT. Local police are easily handled, and they are not allowed to enter your premises without a warrant. They forget this often and attempt to do so, often bullying and making idle threats.
Who IS likely to show up is Metropolitan Enforcement Groups and the DEA (if you did something in multiple states.)
These guys are the big fish. You are a little fish.
Simply put, if they don't have a warrant, they don't have a case. They're fishing. Tell them to fish elsewhere.
From https://www.ohiobar.org/...LawFactsPamphlet-21.aspx (incidentally, a must-read):

<<You may be arrested for a felony (a crime for which jail is a possible penalty), even if the police officer did not personally see you commit the felony, IF the officer had probable cause to believe you committed the crime. Later, the court system (not the police) will determine if the officer’s belief was reasonable and if you are guilty or innocent.>>

Simply put, they can kidnap you if they even THINK you did something wrong, but they cannot hold you without a stamp from a prosecutor for more than 72 hours.
Your magic words are "I do not consent to this search." Say no more and no less.

http://criminal.findlaw....tions-of-the-police.html has this to say
(READ THIS WHOLE PAGE LIKE YESTERDAY)

<<What the Police MAY Do:
Under the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, police may engage in "reasonable" searches and seizures.
To prove that a search is "reasonable," the police must generally show that it is more likely than not that a crime has occurred, and that if a search is conducted it is probable that they will find either stolen goods or evidence of the crime. This is called probable cause.
In some situations, the police must first make this showing to a judge who issues a search warrant. In many special circumstances, however, the police may be able to conduct a search without a warrant. In fact, the majority of searches are "warrantless."
Police may search and seize items or evidence when there is no "legitimate expectation of privacy." In other words, if you did not have a privacy interest in the items or evidence, the police can take them and, in effect, no "search" has occurred.>>

If you make them work for it, they'll likely cuff you, take you downtown and hold you as long as they possibly can. If they're at your door, the moment you answer, everything present in the house is a loaded gun, and it's pointed straight at you. If you can scramble and quickly dispose of evidence, you're Houdini's ghost. Congratulations.
Honestly, if MEG or DEA shows up, you're toast. Just stay quiet and ride the wave. Nothing you can say can ever possibly help you. Ever. Nothing. Literally zero, because all cops have hearing problems, and folie a deux. They'll corroborate any story that advances their case amongst themselves. Don't think they won't.
Also, cops are pathological liars. And they're better at it than you. The first thing they assume is that anything you say first is an outright lie, and let's face it, it probably is. SHUT THE <insert expletive here> UP.

At this point in time, you're sitting in a precinct in handcuffs or not. It doesn't really matter. They're calling a judge and getting a warrant. This usually will not take long. There's judges that literally do that ALL DAY.
If you're LUCKY, they will not be able to obtain a warrant, but you're not lucky. You're not GETTING lucky. You're screwed. Deal with it, but quietly.

They come back and you're sweating, you're acting like it's all been a misunderstanding and you're being cooperative. If this is you, you're an idiot.
SHUT UP, STUPID.

If they walk back in a room, accept an offer of coffee, cigarette, what have you, but politely say the magic words
I DECLINE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS WITHOUT A LAWYER PRESENT.
The next thing they do is plant you in a holding cell. This is likely the last of the outside world you're going to see for the next several months or better. Deal with it, but QUIETLY.

Your public defender or attorney will take it from here. Ride the wave, and remember, loose lips sink ships.
I’m Nobody! Who are you?
Are you Nobody too?
Then there’s a pair of us!
Don’t tell! they’d advertise – you know!
I am the Walrus. Goo goo g'joob.
 

STS is a community for people interested in growing, preserving and researching botanical species, particularly those with remarkable therapeutic and/or psychoactive properties.
 
Questfinder
#2 Posted : 6/22/2016 1:20:39 PM

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You've clearly put a lot of thought and effort into that post, which I'm sure many will appreciate. However, I struggle to take any advice seriously given by someone who has very evidently (from reading your previous threads) not taken any of their own advice for themselves to find out if what they're saying is in practice as it is in theory, because when it comes to the law, we know all too well that they are almost never the same thing.
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#3 Posted : 6/22/2016 1:36:29 PM
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Posts: 2889
Joined: 31-Oct-2014
Last visit: 03-Nov-2018
There's some great information out there regarding knowing your rights regarding law enforcement, which is important.

The police are allowed to lie to you, always remember that.

Quote:
Am I Under Arrest? Am I Free to Go?
Police in Modern America

Know your rights.
Always be polite and courteous to police.
Ask to call your lawyer: never talk about, admit or deny anything.
Do not consent to a search unless the police have a warrant. Be extremely clear.
Ask "Am I under Arrest? Am I Free to Go?"

https://www.erowid.org/freedom/police/

This link goes to an entire vault on erowid dedicated to knowing your rights and understanding ow to deal with law enforcement.



Below is a review of the story written by the clandestine chemist known as "eleusis", it details mistakes he may have made, and offers advice regarding similar situations.

I'm aware DMT extraction is different, though in the eyes of the law manufacture of a controlled substance is manufacture of a controlled substance.


Below this is eleusis' story in the full.

Quote:
Its time to talk about cops again.

Currently, a friend of mine is in work release for 6 months for selling 500 hits of E in a controlled buy. It turns out that Washington state is a very good state to be in to get busted with E or other hallucinogens -- they have their own sentencing guidelines seperate from the other schedules. If he had been busted with a similar amount of methamphetamine he would currently be doing a minimum of 18 months in real prison, and not in work-release.

There is, of course, a story behind all of that, but what I wanted to write about was the fact that due to the nature of his experiences we had discussed what do to about cops a lot. There was always the very real possibility that cops could get involved, and eventually they did get involved. He wanted to be ready to deal with them and know what to say to them which pretty much amounts to one word: nothing.

And I expect that this is harder than you might think, because cops are masters of trying to get you to cave in and spill shit. For example, the cops could have taken his friends in for questioning and starting hammering them on the fact that they were accusing him of having been bringing million of dollars of heroin into the country or something, or accusing him of doing something much, much worse until they broke them down the point where they just said "no, he never does stuff like that, all he did was sell pot and a little bit of E."

Oops. Of course the cops in this scenario would have been lying through their asses trying to work an angle on his friends until they got them to confess to precisely what they were trying to make them confess to. The cops will then, of course, also say to the person under arrest that their friends spilled everything in order to try to get the suspect to confess. And they'll claim that they're trying to "help you."

Never, ever trust the cops.

If you have any kind of ongoing 'relationship' where thing could get legally ugly, you must arrange ahead of time the fact that neither one of you will ever, under any circumstances talk to a cop and establish the groundwork of trust so that when the cop tells you that your friend has spilled everything that you *know* that the cop is lying. If a cop says something to you which makes your stomach turn and makes you think "everything is up" and lose hope you have to realize that the cop is saying that *precisely* to get that reaction out of you. Cops are *trained* to do that.

A really good article to read is lycaeum.org/~chemist/. Its the story of an alt.drugs.chemistry'er from way back who eventually wound up getting busted. A good excersise is to go through and spot all the mistakes that Eleusis made in talking to the cops, because he made a bunch.

Example:

They didn't like that one bit. No sirree. Not one bit. That's when they pulled out the big guns (metaphorically) and asked if I knew anyone in Houston. The sweat started to pour. I knew what they were after. I said "yes, I have a friend out there". They asked what I thought happened when the box I shipped never made it and I said "I figured UPS confiscated it for improper packaging but when I called about it they said they had no record of the shipment so then I figured it was just lost." Then they asked the killer question, the one that made me give up because I knew I was busted.

"Do you know [blank]?"

I said, "yes, she's an ex-girlfriend of mine."

"Well we have [blank] in custody right now."

"Oh."

"So I'll repeat my earlier question, did you ever use this to make crystal, crank, meth, whatever?"

"No, I never made crystal meth, I think it's a horrible drug."

"Then what did you make with it, [blank] said ' ---- ' "

"Alright, alright. I made MDMA."

Two mistakes were made here and the first comes from the second. The first is that he let the fact that the cops new some information get to him. You can't ever do that. The cops can spell out in detail every damn second of your life for the past 3 years and show you videotape and you *have* to believe that some procedural fuck up will get you off and cling to that and just say "i want to talk to a lawyer." You can't let them get to you. And Eleusis should never have admitted to making MDMA. Let the cops do the work, never do anything to help them out, particularly confessing to a crime. Cops are not there to help you, they're there to bust you.

Also, a third mistake is that Eleusis should never have been as co-operative with the cops. He should have refused to answer *any* questions, he should have asked the cops if he was being arrested and if he could speak to a lawyer and be completely un-cooperative. He didn't have to tell them that he made photographic chemicals, or offered any information about the UPS package. When questioned about the UPS package he should have taken the Ronald Reagan defense "I don't recall." Not remembering something -- even when it's painful obvious to everyone around that you're lying -- is great, because later you can suddenly "remember" it when it comes time to talk to the judge if your *lawyer* indicates that it might be in your best interests to remember it.

"I don't recall"
"I don't know what you're talking about"
"Am I being arrested?"
"Can I talk to a lawyer?"

In some states, i believe if you ask to talk to a lawyer, the cops are legally obliged to stop questioning you. This can be a good tactic if there are non-cop witnesses around.

Then he goes on:

Consent was then asked for to search my apartment, under the threat that I would be arrested if I said no and they would get a warrant anyway. I knew this would happen because of what POP-I had told me so I signed my life away. Agents were standing by at my apartment and busted in the door as soon as my pen hit the paper. I was cuffed and taken to my apartment to identify the contents as mine (a formality) and then I was taken to DEA Holding. Apparently seconds after I was taken away the reporters arrived. My driver's license picture was on the 6:00 news. The entire block I lived on was evacuated. Rumors started flying and all of my friends, of which only a very few knew what I did, started calling each other.
Always make them get the warrant. If they asked him for consent, they probably couldn't have gotten a warrant to search it. In the case of my friend that was busted, since the drugs were acquired en route to the controlled buy they could *not* get a warrant to search my friend's apartment. Even though you'd think a judge would go "well, duh, he probably has evidence there" they still couldn't get a warrant for his apartment. We're talking the law here, and common sense rarely has anything to do with it.

Then they took Eleusis to the holding cell:

At DEA Holding I received the good cop/bad cop treatment. It's just like the movies, kids. Just like it. One was threatening to kick in my balls if I didn't tell the truth, the other was saying "there, there, he's *trying* to tell the truth, give him a chance." It was sickening (apparently, [blank] actually did get sick because they asked "you're not going to puke all over the floor like [blank], are you?"Pleased
Okay, a healthy reaction here is to realize that the officer is trying to get a reaction out of you by telling you about [blank] puking. Ideally you should distrust everything that the officer is saying. Maybe [blank] really did puke all over the floor in interrogation. It doesn't matter. The reaction that will likely save you is to think to yourself that the cop is making it up. If you believe the cop is making it up, then it only follows logically that the cop is trying to get a reaction out of you, and that can give you the ability to resist.

Down the page a bit Elusis writes:

I later received the background documentation on the DEA's "setup" of the sting against my co-conspirators and me. What was extremely interesting to note from this was that the DEA conducted "three trash pickups at [my parent's] residence and 1 trash pickup at [blank]' s. "Of course they didn't find anything because I didn't live with my parents, but I always assumed that they would be able to tell that I didn't live there. Funny thing is, they were limited to investigating *where the chemicals were actually sent*.
Pair this statement with the statement about the warrant, and I bet you that Eleusis signed about 5 years of his life away (i think that's what he got) when he signed the consent form for them to go into his lab. If "they were limited to investigating *where the chemicals were actually sent*" then they couldn't have gotten a warrant and they would have had almost nothing to go on. If "[blank]" had kept her mounth shut, then she probably would have gotten a few months for whatever they had on her and Eleusis would have gotten off.

Down at the bottom of this page Eleusis gives some advice that I completely disagree with:

Fourth, if you are caught, try to find out what the agents know/don't know before you start spilling the beans. In my case I played very innocent with them until I found out that [blank] was arrested with 50 capsules of my product (they told her that they already had me in custody and that I said blah-blah-blah, they do that sort of thing, btw). If it does seem like they've got a pretty solid lock on you, *be cooperative* - tell them the truth but don\rquote t get too detailed, all of the details will be debated during sentencing anyway, but being consistent from the moment you are arrested to the moment you are sentenced looks very good, indeed. As well, plead guilty but don't sign the plea agreement unless you are getting a good deal out of it (and you'll only be getting something good if you turn in other people, in which case you deserve to spend eternity in Cocytus (c.f. -Dante's Inferno)).
If you play this game, you lose and the cops win. Don't worry about what the cops do and don't know. And don't "spill the beans." It wins you precisely *zero*. Really, my friend said *nothing* to the cops and was entirely unco-operative right up until the point where he had to accept that the cops had a rock solid case and was forced to plead guilty -- about a year after he was busted. The system did not "punish" him for being unco-operative -- instead he still got the absolute lowest sentence the judge could give him. The cops will, of course, tell you differently and tell you to save yourself. They, of course, lie.

Just to reiterate you should never, ever talk to the cops if they take you in for interrogation. This goes for all circumstances and not just drug cases. If your friend might have _killed someone_, the appropriate time to notify the police is after you've sat down and thought about it and arrived at your own conclusions and when you come under your own power to the cop shop and tell them. The same thing goes for your kids. Talking to the cops will not help your kids if they're getting busted for something. I don't know how I would deal with cops as a parent, but I know that I would never trust that a cop is empathizing with me as a parent and trying to work with me to help my kids -- I would always assume that they are trying to *work me* and screw my kids. At least not until after they've left or let me go would I sit down (preferably with a lawyer) and decide what to tell them. Making decisions that can affect other people lives should not be made, ever, under the conditions that cops place on someone when they are interrogating or questioning them.

Anyway, I hope that everyone realizes that this shit is real and stops and takes a few moments to think about how much risk they are in and how much risk the people around them are in, and figure out what they would do if the roof caved in. A cop could knock on your door tomorrow asking you "do you know XXX?" "have you had correspondence with XXX?" "have you ever received any drugs from XXX?" "were you at location YYY on X/Y/Z?" "are you on ?", etc. I think it's probably fine to admit that you know someone, but if they start asking about specific dates you should always say "i don't remember" even if it was last week. If someone asks you about your involvement with online groups just say "i don't know what you are talking about." Be really fucking unco-operative, you have *nothing* to lose. Don't help the cops in putting together times, dates, places, locations, etc. It goes without saying that you should never, ever admit to any illegal activities with a cop. Don't even admit to something minor like smoking pot to try to cover up something more major. Even in the face of evidence to the contrary, you should take the position that you are an upstanding member of the community who doesn't even jaywalk -- don't pull a "well, sometimes I..." to try to gain "credibility" -- it won't and you'll risk opening doors that the cops want opened: warrants, etc. Also, you should realize that you may not know how much risk someone else is at, and that your statement that you've gotten stoned with them on occasion could wind up with them getting busted for the meth lab in their basement that you didn't know about. *Always* operate under the assumption that your friends have much more to lose than you know about and that you're going to protect them from that.

Anyway, that's my rant on the cops. And I'm just ranting. Nothing in here is anything other than general, aimed at everyone. Its just that there will always be people who have cats and other pets that occasionally smoke some pot and do a little E on occasion, and those people need to recognize the risks that their pets are in and how to deal with damage control. Even the people at negligible risk need to realize how to deal with damage control to keep our pets safe. Got it?

https://www.erowid.org/f...olice/police_info1.shtml



Eleusis' full story (below)

[quote]This is the tale of a character named " eleusis". Think of it as a work of fiction in the first person by a humble narrator, and if it seems a bit strange, remember that only the truth itself is stranger than fiction. Eleusis, for those of you unfamiliar, was the name of an ancient Greek city were the Spring Mysteries were held: a city-wide festival where consumption of mind-altering substances was the central activity in a celebration of the return of Spring.

Organic chemistry intrigued me. It tempted me with its secret language of symbols, its demand for (nearly) blind faith in unseen collisions. MDMA intrigued me as well, with its strangely universal experience, its ability to make even the hardest soul empathic. I had tried neither organic chemistry nor MDMA, so I decided to try both. In the Spring of 1994, appropriately enough, I began my chemical journey and by late winter I was already posting to a.d.c. It took so much work to learn how to make MDMA that I decided I was going to share what I learned so that others would not have to repeat my labors. However, I had serious misgivings about sharing because my quest was one for knowledge and experience while, I knew, for most others it would be for purely economic reasons. You can see my struggling in practically ever post I made, the schizophrenic vacillations in tone between erudite dissertation and egomaniacal evisceration. Though I knew my posts would be put to use by those less scrupulous, I posted nonetheless for the benefit of those who were. And now onto the experience

I broke every rule in the book, and I did so knowingly. I ordered glassware from Aldrich with my real name and credit card. I ordered chemicals from all over with my real name and money orders. I had boxes shipped to my parents (and, later, my co-conspirator's). I spent hundreds of hours in the library and posted everything I found that sounded remotely useful to the process of making MDMA. I conducted my experiments in a freakin' apartment complex, of all places, but none of these mistakes got me busted.

I did all of this in blind faith because the first time I took MDMA was my own.

Days after the reference for converting safrole to isosafrole was sent to me I made my first batch of MDMA, strictly by the book (Shulgin's, that is). Mid-November of ' 94 a good friend of mine and I took 110mg each from that batch and rocketed into an internal space beyond description, but not beyond comprehension. She was suitably impressed, I was ecstatic (pardon the pun), and we just happened to be doing it at a friend of hers that dealt the stuff. Needless to say, that was the beginning of a very good business relationship.

Fast forward a year, give or take a few months.

And the next question is:

So why did I leave a.d.c.?

Perhaps some of you were present back then. If so, then you probably remember a vociferous bastard named Yogi Shan who thought eleusis was about as full of shit as the Augean Stables (c.f. -Hercules 12 labors). Well, a couple of weeks prior to the fit hitting the Shan, so to speak, I had visited a friend Texas and while there I bought a bunch of fairly innocuous chemicals. I packed them up in a box and went down to the local Mailboxes, etc- to have them shipped back.

The box never made it.

After 2 weeks, I was convinced that it had been confiscated, and likely sent to either the DEA, the DOT or the BATF, so I used the ruse of Yogi's incessant criticism of "eleusis" bad chemistry" to bid my farewell to a.d.c., as it was clearly time for me to quit the game.

This, of course, meant that ZWITTERION had to leave too, since even if he and I weren't the same person (and we were), he wouldn't have anyone to pick on anymore (didn't you notice that ZWITTERION only seemed to try out the things that eleusis posted?). As a side note, if you find it hard to swallow that ZWIT and eleusis were the same individual because of the wild difference in writing styles, keep in mind that I *am* an English major.

So what happened to "eleusis" after that?

I packed up my lab in a blind paranoid fury. I canceled my icubed email account. I encrypted and compressed every computer file, e-mail etc that was even remotely related to drug chemistry. I woke up every morning before 5:00am, rumored to be the time the DEA would strike if they came a knockin'. But I also knew that the paper trail was immense, that even if there wasn't anything left in my apartment when the DEA came crashing in that I would still have a lot of explaining to do. Then there was the realization that if I was under surveillance that they would already know where I put everything. I struggled to wipe my fingerprints from everything I had ever touched, but I couldn't bring myself to throw away nearly $12,000 in glassware, chemicals and equipment. I just couldn't *destroy* everything, though I *knew* that I should. Besides, how does one get rid of 11kg of Safrole or 20L of THF? I'm no tree-hugger, but I'm not so environmentally unconscious that I\rquote d pour shit like that down the drain or onto the ground.

Months went by with no sign of the DEA. Slowly but surely my co-conspirator convinced me to start up again. She used the very persuasive argument that since I had started manufacturing, no one would buy anything else (I was a fanatic about quality, I never cut my MDMA, and I made sure that every dose was 100-110mg for the best possible experience). It really didn\rquote t take much convincing, though, because once you start, I don't believe you can stop until you are *caught*. It is too seductive, way too seductive. Viddy well, little brothers, viddy well (c.f.- A Clockwork Orange).

So I started up again, but I tried to make the lab as spartan as possible - no unrelated chemicals on the premises, no massive quantities of Class I precursors, and definitely no product for any longer than the time it took to dry. It was futile, of course, and as I came to realize that I took the attitude of 'fuck it'. I cranked out a 2000 dose batch of 2-CB and gave it all away. I mustered up a 16g batch of Mescaline and gave that away too. TMA, DMT, 4-Methylaminorex, et. Al., just to know that I could and to see what they were like.

On June 23, at around 5:00pm, the phone rang. It was Special Agent Higgins of the DEA. He was at my parents house and wanted to ask me a few questions about all the chemicals I had purchased. I told him I would be right over, hung up, then looked at my apartment. Chemicals everywhere, glassware everywhere. There was no way to destroy enough of it to matter in the time frame allotted. I did destroy the twin 100g batches of MDP-2-P that were just starting (literally 15 minutes prior) and dump out ~500g of methylamine HCl (yes, made by decomposing Hexamine) but nothing else. I just hoped that I would be able to smoothly talk my way out of the problem - at least for long enough to be able to destroy everything else.

When I arrived at my parents house there were a dozen agents wandering around with guns, bullet proof vests, the whole enchilada. They were sorting through my old room and found maybe two documents related to chemistry and, unfortunately, a bottle of sodium in petroleum ether that I had long ago forgotten. They told me that they had all of my receipts from a certain chemical company that I used quite often and asked what I did with all of those chemicals. Well, I felt pretty confident then because I never ordered anything listed or even terribly suspicious from that company - I synthesized all of the naughty precursors myself - so I calmly answered " I make photographic developers with them." They then asked "Are you saying you never made crystal meth, crank, methamphetamine, whatever you want to call it with these chemicals" and I easily said "no" followed by "I don't think any of those chemicals are used to make meth, otherwise how would I have been able to purchase them?"

They didn't like that one bit. No sirree. Not one bit. That's when they pulled out the big guns (metaphorically) and asked if I knew anyone in Houston. The sweat started to pour. I knew what they were after. I said "yes, I have a friend out there". They asked what I thought happened when the box I shipped never made it and I said "I figured UPS confiscated it for improper packaging but when I called about it they said they had no record of the shipment so then I figured it was just lost." Then they asked the killer question, the one that made me give up because I knew I was busted.

"Do you know [blank]?"

I said, "yes, she's an ex-girlfriend of mine."

"Well we have [blank] in custody right now."

"Oh."

"So I'll repeat my earlier question, did you ever use this to make crystal, crank, meth, whatever?"

"No, I never made crystal meth, I think it's a horrible drug."

"Then what did you make with it, [blank] said ' ---- ' "

"Alright, alright. I made MDMA."

Consent was then asked for to search my apartment, under the threat that I would be arrested if I said no and they would get a warrant anyway. I knew this would happen because of what POP-I had told me so I signed my life away. Agents were standing by at my apartment and busted in the door as soon as my pen hit the paper. I was cuffed and taken to my apartment to identify the contents as mine (a formality) and then I was taken to DEA Holding. Apparently seconds after I was taken away the reporters arrived. My driver's license picture was on the 6:00 news. The entire block I lived on was evacuated. Rumors started flying and all of my friends, of which only a very few knew what I did, started calling each other.

To top it all off, my ulcer started giving me a real fit (the ulcer was a byproduct of living 2 years in intense fear of that very moment).

At DEA Holding I received the good cop/bad cop treatment. It's just like the movies, kids. Just like it. One was threatening to kick in my balls if I didn't tell the truth, the other was saying "there, there, he's *trying* to tell the truth, give him a chance." It was sickening (apparently, [blank] actually did get sick because they asked "you're not going to puke all over the floor like [blank], are you?"Pleased

The interrogation was rather brief, consisting only of:

1) How much x did I make? -about 800g I said (based on quick mental calculations of what was consumed from the chemicals I knew were on the premises)

2) How often did I take it? - 3 times (close enough to the truth that it doesn't matter)

3) Did I sell it -only to [blank]

4) She said you split the money 75-25, how much money did you make? -about 80 grand (consistent with my earlier answer of 800g)

5) How often did you make it? -about every other week

6) How much in each batch? -28g

7) Who taught you how to make it? -I taught myself (true)

Cool Did you get the recipe from the internet? -no, from the library (cringe at the word 'recipe', we ain't bakin' brownies here, boys)

And that was pretty much it. I was then transported to the Orient Road Jail. On the way there I enjoyed a most memorable conversation with the agent:

"So this is pretty much the end of the road for me, eh?"

"No, Tim Allen from Home Improvement got busted for trafficking 2 keys of coke. He copped a plea, turned in a few people and look how well he's done."

"Yeah, but Time Allen was a dealer, and I'm a chemist. The buck pretty much stops here. I'm top of the food chain. There's no further up you can go, there's no bigger prize than busting someone like me."

"Good point."

"Gee, thanks."

The worst thing about jail (so far) is that it's so fucking boring someone like me would go insane within weeks. I was so bored I counted every tile on the walls of the various rooms I was shuffled between (1,240 in the "airlock" , 2,278 in my "pod" ). Oh yes, and then there was the food--Being that I am a vegetarian, it was completely inedible. Breakfast was gravy and an apple. Yes, gravy. My cellmate got a hellacious case of diarrhea from it - so bad he actually shit his britches.

The next morning I had my bond hearing in front of a Federal Magistrate. I was chained to two other people by the hands and feet. Reporters crowded the pews watching my every expression. My mother was there with one of her friends from work. At that moment I knew that I had truly fucked up big time; that I had let down every one that said I was a genius that could have done anything I put my mind to. What did my clever brain get me? Shackled to a health plan embezzler and an illegal alien bank robber.

A private lawyer offered his services for free (my case was extremely novel - only the second MDMA manufacturer in that district of Florida). The prosecutor moved to have my bond denied and for me to be detained in Morgan Street Jail (which makes Orient Road look like a fucking resort, btw). My lawyer and I quickly consulted the federal statutes and found that what applies to methamphetamine does not apply to MDMA, so that got me out of that dire predicament. Bond was set for $75,000 and my mother put up her house to secure it. Had I not bonded out, I am quite certain I would not be alive to type this. I later received the background documentation on the DEA's "setup" of the sting against my co-conspirators and me. What was extremely interesting to note from this was that the DEA conducted "three trash pickups at [my parent's] residence and 1 trash pickup at [blank]' s. "Of course they didn't find anything because I didn't live with my parents, but I always assumed that they would be able to tell that I didn't live there. Funny thing is, they were limited to investigating *where the chemicals were actually sent*.

Another consequence of my arrest is that most of my possessions were seized on the premise that they were either paid for with drug manufacturing profits or they were actually used to make drugs. I could merely rattle off a list of interesting (and pricey) items that would break a materialist's heart, but the point here isn't to impress you with what I owned, rather, to illustrate that there isn't a lot of logic involved in the seizure process. Furthermore, when they do seize something you have to take them to court (in a separate civil action) to get the stuff back. This will cost you beaucoup bucks and you'll probably lose anyway (this is what my lawyer said, and he specializes in Federal criminal & civil cases). Fortunately, you can sometimes *ask* for certain things back, and if you were cooperative, they will honor the requests. Other times they will just outright give you things back. For instance, they seized about $10,000 in electronic test equipment that had absolutely nothing to do with making drugs and, besides a $3,000 digital storage oscilloscope, wasn't even paid for with drug profits. However, a 1991 Ducati 900SS motorcycle, an obvious *toy* that was paid for with drug profits, was given back to me for unknown reasons (they initially seized it but later said to my lawyer, and I quote, "we want to give it back to him"Pleased. My 1988 Mazda RX-7 they ignored, saying that it was "a piece of junk" - this was where I typically kept the "Lonely Laptop on the Fringe" as well as a few other neat toys. Had I known that they weren't interested in "junky" cars (mine had some rust as well as 100k+ miles) then I would have stashed my money in it, instead of a fire safe that they naturally cracked open immediately.

Side comment: The DEA chemist said "this is the most technologically advanced lab I have ever seen." Well, that was something to be proud of, anyway.

A couple weeks after I was out on bond the DEA found out about the storage unit I used and which had been rented out by one of [blank]'s roomates for me. It was quite a coincidence because the day before I had told my lawyer about it and asked him what I should do. He said "do nothing and see if they find it." Well, found it they did. It took some fast talking on my part to keep [blank]'s roomate from getting arrested as well. Anyway, when they raided my apartment lab and found all of that electronic equipment they assumed I was a dangerous sonuvabitch who booby-trapped the storage unit. They called my lawyer and me to ask what was in it. I gave them very coy, circumspect answers implying that it had been so long since I was out there that I couldn't "exactly" remember what was in it. This was a good move on my part because it heightened their suspicion it was booby-trapped to the point that they offered me immunity for the contents as long as I told them what was there. Suddenly my memory reappeared and I rattled off about a dozen items before they decided that HazMat needed to be called in and so the circus started anew. Good thing I got immunity because inside there was a complete portable lab (I called it S.C.R.A.P. for Self Contained Reaction APparratus), a generator, a rotary evaporator, about 400 different chemicals and some small amounts of 2-CB and Mescaline.

The legal morass surrounding a manufacturing case is unbelievable. I could go on for dozens of pages about it, but instead I will summarize using the advantage of hindsight.

There are many ways one can be prosecuted for suspected drug manufacturing, and the safest route the prosecutor can take is to just stick you with the precursors unless you were caught actually making it and/or you had product on the premises. I was caught with nothing being made and nothing on site, but the prosecutor was greedy and charged [blank] and me with "Conspiracy to Manufacture MDMA, a Controlled Substance Analogue" anyway. I waived my right to a grand jury to be nice, and because there was no point in being formally charged since...
 
cy6nu5
#4 Posted : 6/22/2016 7:50:37 PM
DMT-Nexus member


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Last visit: 17-Feb-2019
Questfinder wrote:
You've clearly put a lot of thought and effort into that post, which I'm sure many will appreciate. However, I struggle to take any advice seriously given by someone who has very evidently (from reading your previous threads) not taken any of their own advice for themselves to find out if what they're saying is in practice as it is in theory, because when it comes to the law, we know all too well that they are almost never the same thing.

Sometimes it takes screwing up big time to do it right next time.
Knowing what NOT to do is just as important as what TO do, because there's a lot of ways to do things wrong. I learned a lot about the justice system and how bogus it can actually be, and how shady LEOs are. You can take my words to heart or call me a hypocrite, but it does not change the fact that these words can save someone else from self-incrimination while thinking they are doing themselves a favour.
When you get to the back room and your attorney tells you that the prosecutor has a good deal for you, there's no shame in taking a plea.

It's worth mentioning that
THE POLICE CANNOT MAKE PLEA ARRANGEMENTS, AND WILL LIE TO YOU TO GET YOU TO CONFESS.
ONLY THE PROSECUTORS CAN MAKE PLEA ARRANGEMENTS AND WILL ONLY TELL THESE ARRANGEMENTS TO YOUR ATTORNEY. DO NOT TELL POLICE THINGS BECAUSE THEY TELL YOU THEY CAN HELP YOU OUT.
I’m Nobody! Who are you?
Are you Nobody too?
Then there’s a pair of us!
Don’t tell! they’d advertise – you know!
I am the Walrus. Goo goo g'joob.
 
n0thing
#5 Posted : 6/23/2016 4:13:18 AM

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I remember a thread where someone made a picture story of a raid, it would be damn freaky even if it is just a knock on the door. Just to think, all that liberty down the drain. Sad What lurks in the back of my mind...
 
Jees
#6 Posted : 6/23/2016 10:03:09 PM

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cy6nu5
#7 Posted : 6/24/2016 3:53:25 AM
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A good rule of thumb is to pretend you are completely innocent and they have nothing on you. That's you're story and you're sticking to it. A stay in jail can be rough (prison is usually better in general).
The main event is the plea bargain. If my experience with the justice system has taught me anything, telling on yourself won't help anymore than not telling on yourself.
I’m Nobody! Who are you?
Are you Nobody too?
Then there’s a pair of us!
Don’t tell! they’d advertise – you know!
I am the Walrus. Goo goo g'joob.
 
slewb
#8 Posted : 6/24/2016 7:49:02 AM

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Last visit: 10-Jan-2022
A few months ago a woman came around and opened with "Hi I'm so-and-so from the FBI." Turned out she was just doing a background check on a neighbor applying for a job. But I nearly had a heart attack right there.
 
The Traveler
#9 Posted : 6/25/2016 2:08:08 PM

"No, seriously"

Administrator | Skills: DMT, LSD, Programming

Posts: 7324
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Location: Orion Spur
PEOPLE SHOULD BE AWARE THAT MOST OF WHAT IS POSTED IN THIS THREAD IS ABOUT:

USA LAWS!


Other countries have different laws and some things like stated for the USA law might actually be a bad thing for your case in other countries!

So make sure you read up on your local law!


Kind regards,

The Traveler
 
cy6nu5
#10 Posted : 6/27/2016 5:29:01 AM
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Posts: 122
Joined: 05-Jul-2013
Last visit: 17-Feb-2019
The Traveler wrote:
PEOPLE SHOULD BE AWARE THAT MOST OF WHAT IS POSTED IN THIS THREAD IS ABOUT:

USA LAWS!


Other countries have different laws and some things like stated for the USA law might actually be a bad thing for your case in other countries!

So make sure you read up on your local law!


Kind regards,

The Traveler


Yes, this is a very good point, Traveler. Thank you. These are only posted in reference to the United States.
I’m Nobody! Who are you?
Are you Nobody too?
Then there’s a pair of us!
Don’t tell! they’d advertise – you know!
I am the Walrus. Goo goo g'joob.
 
cy6nu5
#11 Posted : 6/27/2016 5:32:08 AM
DMT-Nexus member


Posts: 122
Joined: 05-Jul-2013
Last visit: 17-Feb-2019
The Traveler wrote:
PEOPLE SHOULD BE AWARE THAT MOST OF WHAT IS POSTED IN THIS THREAD IS ABOUT:

USA LAWS!


Other countries have different laws and some things like stated for the USA law might actually be a bad thing for your case in other countries!

So make sure you read up on your local law!


Kind regards,

The Traveler


Yes, this is a very good point, Traveler. Thank you. These are only posted in reference to the United States.
I’m Nobody! Who are you?
Are you Nobody too?
Then there’s a pair of us!
Don’t tell! they’d advertise – you know!
I am the Walrus. Goo goo g'joob.
 
 
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