Unpleasant experience with odd side-effects Options
#1 Posted : 6/14/2016 4:39:10 PM

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i had an experience that was odd, unpleasant and somewhat worrisome. it’s a hard thing to try to talk about with anyone else i know, and at this point i don’t think it’s a subject for the doctor, but i’d like the opinions of the community first. if symptoms return or something is really off, certainly the doctor would be consulted.

i’ve had many experiences with the spirit molecule, some mild, some disappointing, but most astoundingly beautiful and mind-expanding. over the weekend something happened that has given me pause.

the time felt just right for a voyage. it was a beautiful sunny afternoon and i decided to try the most recent batch of changa i had mixed up. it was a 1:2 mix using only mullein. steeped and stirred carefully in 99% IPA, left to evaporate slowly over 4 days. completely dry. no harmalas.

i weighed out the dose which was the equivalent of 20mg spice. i put it into the bowl of the bong and did my usual reflective preparation. i was sitting in my atrium room, which is all glass including the ceiling. i live near a forest area and the trees are hanging down over the ceiling which has always provided a stunning canopy.

the one thing that was slightly unpleasant was it was a very very hot day, and the sun was blazing right above me. it was hot. and if i looked up, the sun was right in my eyes. i considered getting my eyeshades, but i decided that my eyes would be closed, so i skipped them.

i got my torch lighter ready, and was ready to begin. so here’s where the first thing went wrong, i believe. i had always believed that with changa, one of the benefits was you cannot “burn” it. you just torch it. i had only used a bong once before, always having been a fan of vaporization. that one experience was stellar, and i had no strange issues. this time i think i put the torch way too close to the bowl, incinerating the entire bowl in about a half a second - it just poofed instantly, especially being mullein which is so fluffy and light. i took in the smoke, put down the glass piece and laid back awaiting liftoff. held in the smoke for at least 20 seconds.

nothing. nothing at all. i mean, nothing. no mild glow, no false start - fully sober.

i sat in the chair, in the blazing sun, stunned. disappointed. curious. even with voyages with less than expected results, there is usually some feeling of the spice - some glow - some indication that the medicine had entered me. this time it was strangely vacant. after just a few minutes i got up. walking around i could feel no effects. but here is where it gets really bizarre.

i should add again that it was so very hot where i was sitting - unpleasantly so - i had to get up.

about 6 hours later, i felt the sudden onset of what felt like the flu. a freight train of body aches and a horrible headache. and in another hour, i could feel a fever coming on. i was sure i was coming down with the flu. eventually my fever reached about 101.

yet, there were no other symptoms that usually come with the flu - no upper respiratory symptoms, no GI issues. just fever, body aches and massive headache. i went to bed.

the next day i was very ill. fever, chills, aches. over the counter meds helped a lot and a lot of fluids. i treated it like the flu. but i began to wonder if somehow there was some connection? but what could it have been? there was no solvent left, no harmalas, all that happened was i probably burnt the spice and inhaled what was combusted too quickly. what could i have inhaled that would’ve created a virus-like illness?

i woke up the next day, no headache, no fever, feeling much much better, expect feeling like i had been beaten up. the rest of the day improved significantly, and by the evening i was 90% back to normal. yet not 100%.

it’s been a couple of days, and even though i am functioning fine and feel quite well, something still feels off. it could be that i am scrutinizing myself so much that i am looking for something that isn’t there. i am quite sensitive to my feelings and body; something is still affecting me. the most significant remaining feeling is that of light-headedness. other than that, i think i’m just hyper-aware of it.

in all likelihood i was hit with some type of virus and this is a coincidence. there was nothing about my experience, nor what i inhaled that could’ve done this as far as i know. yet the link is there and baffling.

the sad part is, this experience has given me some pause…some trepidation about further explorations. this had never happened before - not even close. i am in no rush at all to liftoff for a while, but when i do it will be with Xtals and a GVG. that batch of changa i probably won’t be touching for a long time, if ever again. there was nothing new about it - same bag of mullein, same spice, same IPA, etc.

thanks for reading all this. the most likely explanation is a coincidence with some type of virus, but the odd nature of it creates some element of doubt. the lack of other flu symptoms is the main thing. granted, there are millions of different viruses out there and sometimes we get hit with something we can't identify. but this was odd.

any thoughts, ideas, shared experiences would be most welcome. i feel ok - maybe just worried and shell-shocked. i’m taking good care of myself, good nourishment, exercise and meditation. but that is what i always do anyway.


Trippy glass for trippy people.
#2 Posted : 6/15/2016 3:26:42 PM

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pretty quiet here.
#3 Posted : 6/15/2016 3:45:09 PM

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No, I think a lot tend not to post unless they have something insightful to say. A lot of my trip reports have gone the same way, or maybe they just were not that interesting.

Anyway I almost responded when I read it, but since its not that useful I decided not to. But I have experienced flu like symptoms after spice on two occasions. But they were successful trips.

What I put it down to was that I was fairly run down, and the feeling was accentuated a lot.

A few people have pointed out this acute physical sensitivity that can come with it, there was a thread about sunburn a while ago.

Also I was using a bong at the time with mullein. I've been vaping in a desktop vaporiser since and not had the same effect - could it be you are right and it is a side effect of burnt spice?
I speak as if it were fact, but indeed this is just the insane ramblings of my ego - but my inner self seems to be nodding.
#4 Posted : 6/15/2016 4:28:52 PM

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well, thank you upwaysidedown...

your reply was, indeed, helpful. just to know others have had similar experiences makes one feel not so alone. and the fact that you were using mullein, in a bong....etc....

sometimes, "useful information" is not the most important thing. the feeling of community and support often outweighs it.

so, many thanks again just for sayin' hi.

#5 Posted : 6/15/2016 4:45:04 PM

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Probably had nothing to do with what you smoked.

Maybe heat stroke from sitting in the sun?

Maybe a virus, coincidentally?

Regardless, I would look at your body's symptoms as a positive thing. They are your body's response to something that it is dealing with. I would Support your body's decisions and help it along its path, trying not to stress or worry about it too much. It knows what it needs to do.

I would stay away from symptom suppressing "counter" meds, they will only help to dull the line of communication between you and your body.

Get some fresh air, light exercise, eat and sleep good.
#6 Posted : 6/15/2016 6:41:58 PM

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Intezam get the same symptoms from (the sound of) firecrackers ......we hear the noise and when we hear a real loud or close bang -- boooooom, -- we get the fever, shivering, headache....really sick - like a flu without coughing or running nose. It last up to two days.
We call it the effect of devils....(and devil children)

#7 Posted : 6/16/2016 3:36:18 PM

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just wanted to thank those who have responded; as i mentioned, often it is helpful just to know folks are there, even if they don't have anything to offer at the moment.

i'm feeling better; trying hard to accept that i may never know what happened. could've been a coincidence of events; getting sick that day with a mystery virus. could've been a strange reaction to a full dose of burnt spice, an allergic reaction to something combusted, a warning from the entities of some sort yet undeciphered...

i live a very healthy lifestyle; it's hard to "improve" on it in any significant way. i eat well, exercise regularly, meditate and practice yoga daily, etc. my task is in "acceptance"; i am someone who always wants "to know" struggle is in letting go of that need and trusting the Universe. in many ways, that, indeed, is my main yoga practice. asana are easy; trusting what we can't control and letting go of the reins is the challenge.

i'll probably wait a few weeks before any more attempts, but without a doubt with a different ROA. not that there's anything wrong with the bong for changa; more a psychological avoidance, at least for a while. just like, remember the first time you got sick with a particular type of alcohol? usually don't go right back to it, if ever. i still can't drink Bushmill's Irish Whiskey. oh Lord....

i appreciate the support so far. blessings.
#8 Posted : 6/16/2016 4:26:13 PM

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Duc, have you heard of "changa flu" ?

Quite a few people have complained of it before, here, for example.

Good luck!

“I sometimes marvel at how far I’ve come - blissful, even, in the knowledge that I am slowly becoming a well-evolved human being - only to have the illusion shattered by an episode of bad behaviour that contradicts the new and reinforces the old. At these junctures of self-reflection, I ask the question: “are all my years of hard work unraveling before my eyes, or am I just having an episode?” For the sake of personal growth and the pursuit of equanimity, I choose the latter and accept that, on this journey of evolution, I may not encounter just one bad day, but a group of many.”
― B.G. Bowers

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#9 Posted : 6/16/2016 5:40:46 PM

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My guess, other than coincidence with a virus, would be possible residual solvent bound up in spots that did not evap off.
Another thought I just had, though a bit far fetched, would be that the whomp of DMT entering your system disrupted your particular immune system momentarily or at a sensitive time (as it is known to have immunomodulatory properties), enough to make you more susceptible to whatever microbes may have been floating about. Probably a bit of a stretch, but as DMT is known to have complex interactions with the immune system (both stimulating and suppressing), it may have tipped some scales?
Living to Give
#10 Posted : 6/19/2016 12:07:25 AM

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an update for those who are interested:

been a week now, and certainly no fever, chills or aches, but still feel off and some residual headache. very odd. a lot of it is probably my anxiety over it too.

went to the doctor and had a ton of blood work done just to rule out any type of infection: as suspected, all normal. i told my doc everything and he said, along with others i have discussed with, highly unlikely that the DMT was the direct culprit.

there is one thing i am wondering, and it might be a clue:

this was a large batch of changa and i usually don't make this much. while IPA evaps quite quickly, i wonder if it wasn't totally dry. i really thought it was - left for a couple of days in fact. but i did put it in an airtight container afterwards and if there was any residual moisture it would've moistened up the batch, perhaps uniformly. it was all Mullein, which as we know holds moisture really well. maybe it was a tad bit wet? as i said, it didn't seem it, but it was hard to tell.

i wonder if these symptoms could be from inhaling a big lungful of burnt DMT and IPA? inhaling IPA is dangerous, to be sure, but i wonder if it all evaps under flame or if i might have inhaled something toxic from the combusted changa and whatever IPA might have been in?

last note: i had, in fact, vaporized this batch once and had no ill effects. the offending event was under a torch.

only thing i can think of; test results rule out any type of infection, viral or otherwise.

toking flaming IPA just couldn't be good. wonder if that might be it?

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