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jamie
#1 Posted : 9/7/2012 1:19:33 AM

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so among my other trichs and cacti I have been growing some grandiflorus cus it's cheap and easy to find at nurseries and is reported to contain mescaline..I have read a few promising bioassay reports..not sure yet what flowering variety mine is..

Has anyone bioassayed or extracted this cacti? I have lots of pups all around the mother cacti so next year I will prob pot them all on their own and if I can get some mescaline from this cacti or other interesting phens that would be fine by me..

It also according to shulgin contains some DMT..Id assume not much though..

Im not growing this cacti as some kind of sole mescaline source..I have other torch's and achuma for that..but it's an interesting cacti and I like growing it, and the reports of it being active are what led me to it in the first place.

Ive been meaning to ask about this for some time now..
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AlbertKLloyd
#2 Posted : 9/7/2012 1:58:30 AM

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You need to throw away the M.S. Smith Book... (or at least disregard it)


No offense intended, it is just full of bad/outdated information. It was great when it was new, but we know so much more now.

The grandiflorus hybrids offered by so many nurseries and garden centers are hybrids of different species in the same species cluster.

T. grandiflorus has many synonyms and is an interesting topic.
Synonym: Echinopsis pecheretiana, Trichocereus grandiflorus, Lobivia hyalacantha, Acanthocalycium hyalacanthum, Helianthocereus hyalacanthus, Echinopsis hyalacantha, Trichocereus rowleyi, Pseudolobivia pelecyrhachis var. lobivioides, Trichocereus lobivioides, Helianthocereus pecheretianus, Trichocereus huascha var. pecheretianus, Lobivia purpureominiata, Echinopsis rowleyi, Chamaecereus grandiflorus, Echinopsis lobivioides, Trichocereus andalgalensis, Helianthocereus grandiflorus, Pseudolobivia lobivioides, Lobivia huascha, Trichocereus huascha, Cereus huascha, Cereus andalgalensis, Helianthocereus andalgalensis, Lobivia andalgalensis, Helianthocereus huascha var. auricolor, Trichocereus auricolor, Trichocereus andalgalensis var. auricolor, Trichocereus catamarcensis, Lobivia grandiflora, Helianthocereus huascha

Yeah, it is known by all those and a few others...! also it varies in form to a very frustrating degree

It does not have DMT, nor has it ever been found to contain mescaline. Shulgin sought to correct that information but the myth spread faster than the truth.
A white flowered form has proven active, but the identity is not clear and the clone is not widespread. I think I have a cutting of it somewhere, but it might have died.

Shulgin points out that these are reported active, but Shulgin throws that word around and is not specific, his use of the term active does not always mean psychedelic.

If you look at one particular generic name for the plant Lobiviayou can find some interesting chemical data. Hordenine has been found in it for example.
Here is some data about the plant:
Trichocereus huascha Agurell 69.2 10-50mg/100g hordenine 100%
It means that in 1969 a study was published on the species that found hordenine as the sole alkaloid in the plant, with a content range of 10-50mg per 100g (fresh) However that study did not actually test for specific quaternary amines like candicine, so it is by no means conclusive.

On a fun note the name Lobivia is an anagram for Bolivia! You can find a paper where some people put Shulgins name on it where they claim that species allied with this plant contain Methylenedioxy versions of various PEAs, this is also bad information and Shulgin had nothing to do with the paper and there has been no evidence that the plants contain those chemicals in any decent amount.


Some forms of the plant appear active, others do not. There are as of now no consistent reports of activity (dose, effects, active forms etc) and no decent extraction reports. The identification of these species cluster is a huge taxonomic mess too.

I grew some of the MesaGarden hybrids from seed and selected a short spined version, it flowered while I was away, but was a white and richly scented flower! Since the reportedly active form was a white flowered form this is worth looking into further.

It is a good candidate for breeding projects involving other plants. I have seedlings of T huascha crossed with a bridgesii, though they are too young to explore. Crosses between this plant and the San Pedro species complex do not always work though.

It is a plant worth having, but it needs a lot of work and research on it.
 
D.REYx420
#3 Posted : 9/7/2012 2:58:12 AM

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yup ive always wondered about this to and the other obscure trichos. i have a nice little grandiflorus that hasnt flowered yet and i picked it up at lowes or something but theres always the pachycereus one too that interested me.
"we are not human being's having spiritual experiences, we are spiritual being's having human experience's." (Teilhard de Chardin (1975?)
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#4 Posted : 6/5/2016 2:52:24 PM
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AlbertKLloyd wrote:
You need to throw away the M.S. Smith Book... (or at least disregard it)


No offense intended, it is just full of bad/outdated information. It was great when it was new, but we know so much more now.

The grandiflorus hybrids offered by so many nurseries and garden centers are hybrids of different species in the same species cluster.

T. grandiflorus has many synonyms and is an interesting topic.
Synonym: Echinopsis pecheretiana, Trichocereus grandiflorus, Lobivia hyalacantha, Acanthocalycium hyalacanthum, Helianthocereus hyalacanthus, Echinopsis hyalacantha, Trichocereus rowleyi, Pseudolobivia pelecyrhachis var. lobivioides, Trichocereus lobivioides, Helianthocereus pecheretianus, Trichocereus huascha var. pecheretianus, Lobivia purpureominiata, Echinopsis rowleyi, Chamaecereus grandiflorus, Echinopsis lobivioides, Trichocereus andalgalensis, Helianthocereus grandiflorus, Pseudolobivia lobivioides, Lobivia huascha, Trichocereus huascha, Cereus huascha, Cereus andalgalensis, Helianthocereus andalgalensis, Lobivia andalgalensis, Helianthocereus huascha var. auricolor, Trichocereus auricolor, Trichocereus andalgalensis var. auricolor, Trichocereus catamarcensis, Lobivia grandiflora, Helianthocereus huascha

Yeah, it is known by all those and a few others...! also it varies in form to a very frustrating degree

It does not have DMT, nor has it ever been found to contain mescaline. Shulgin sought to correct that information but the myth spread faster than the truth.
A white flowered form has proven active, but the identity is not clear and the clone is not widespread. I think I have a cutting of it somewhere, but it might have died.

Shulgin points out that these are reported active, but Shulgin throws that word around and is not specific, his use of the term active does not always mean psychedelic.

If you look at one particular generic name for the plant Lobiviayou can find some interesting chemical data. Hordenine has been found in it for example.
Here is some data about the plant:
Trichocereus huascha Agurell 69.2 10-50mg/100g hordenine 100%
It means that in 1969 a study was published on the species that found hordenine as the sole alkaloid in the plant, with a content range of 10-50mg per 100g (fresh) However that study did not actually test for specific quaternary amines like candicine, so it is by no means conclusive.

On a fun note the name Lobivia is an anagram for Bolivia! You can find a paper where some people put Shulgins name on it where they claim that species allied with this plant contain Methylenedioxy versions of various PEAs, this is also bad information and Shulgin had nothing to do with the paper and there has been no evidence that the plants contain those chemicals in any decent amount.


Some forms of the plant appear active, others do not. There are as of now no consistent reports of activity (dose, effects, active forms etc) and no decent extraction reports. The identification of these species cluster is a huge taxonomic mess too.

I grew some of the MesaGarden hybrids from seed and selected a short spined version, it flowered while I was away, but was a white and richly scented flower! Since the reportedly active form was a white flowered form this is worth looking into further.

It is a good candidate for breeding projects involving other plants. I have seedlings of T huascha crossed with a bridgesii, though they are too young to explore. Crosses between this plant and the San Pedro species complex do not always work though.

It is a plant worth having, but it needs a lot of work and research on it.


I know this is an old thread, but everything that was said here relates to currant research I'm doing involving trichocereus grandiflorus.

I was also asked about "MDMA cacti" and I laughed, so the person further claimed shulgin was involved, again I took it with a grain of salt...

Then I saw this post, could these methylenedioxy-phenethylamines purportedly in cacti be the "MDMA cacti"?

As expected, shulgin was not involved and methylenedioxy phenethylamines/amphetamines do not exist in cacti...

I read an anecdotal report an another forum of a person simply eating this cactus, then claiming it was inactive, however the report was not very credible or well written, so I can't say that it is evidence of any kind.

...I'm willing to bet trichocereus grandiflorus is active in some sense, and it probably contains phenethylamines, but information is sparse, so any definite decision seems premature.

I've been browsing through other internet forums on the topic, and I can honestly say that the nexus is one of the few sites worth being a member of, have you guys seen the disinformation, ignorance, and nonsense that runs rampant in these places? I guess I have high standards when it comes to accuracy and quality in information and discussion.

Sorry to post in an incredibly old thread, it seems there still has not been much progress regarding trichocereus grandiflorus alkaloid content and activity...

-eg
 
jamie
#5 Posted : 6/5/2016 8:07:25 PM

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as far as I know, MDPEA or methylene dioxy phen is found in cacti...but not any alpha methyl phens.
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pau
#6 Posted : 6/6/2016 2:13:54 AM

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I recall hearing that the MDMA and/or mescaline supposedly found in the cactus were the result of measuring equipment contamination....guess it's possible that Shulgin or whoever may have heard about the initial results could have reported that information before it was discredited.
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entheogenic-gnosis
#7 Posted : 6/6/2016 2:08:44 PM
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pau wrote:
I recall hearing that the MDMA and/or mescaline supposedly found in the cactus were the result of measuring equipment contamination....guess it's possible that Shulgin or whoever may have heard about the initial results could have reported that information before it was discredited.


Browningia candelaris is a cactus that contains 4-methoxy-amphetamine (some other cacti are reported to contain this compound).

Plants of the epherdra genus and a few others contain beta-hydroxy-N-methyl-amphetamine (Ephedrine),

there are two trees of the acacia genus that have been claimed to contain methamphetamine as well as amphetamine and mescaline (though these results are being disputed),

and the catha edulis plant produces beta-keto-amphetamines...

But so far I have not seen any 3,4-methylenedioxy-amphetamines in the plant world...

Shulgin May have published something along those lines, or it may have been a misunderstanding connected to shulgins name, regardless, methylenedioxy substituted amphetamines in plants was news to me, and I took it as misinformation at best and a joke at worst...maybe I was quick to take it with a grain of salt, but in the end it turned out to be the correct reaction...


Though shulgin has made mistakes, initially he published that DET was not orally active, and he had to correct it...

...shulgin also claimed to find DMT in trichocereus grandiflourus, but when he repeated the experiment, no DMT was present, he said it could be due to the strain of cacti, one red flower, one yellow, or it could have been contaminated lab equipment...

Shulgin's lab was more of an "alchemist den" than what you would expect from a professional or government lab...shulgin's place was a working mess, birds would fly in the fireplace and knock things over, squirrels would get in, and so on...(nothing against shulgin, I still feel he is brilliant, but his lab was definantly not the "normal" laboratory setting)

...so contaminated equipment would not surprise me.

Regardless, shulgin is a source of a wealth of priceless information in this area.

And when searching for information elsewhere I was only frustrated, I skimmed through some other forums, and remembered why the nexus is the only forum I frequent...

the scientific data is sparse...

-eg



 
dreamer042
#8 Posted : 6/6/2016 7:31:52 PM

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J Psychoactive Drugs. 2008 Jun;40(2):219-22.
Ecstasy analogues found in cacti.
Bruhn JG, El-Seedi HR, Stephanson N, Beck O, Shulgin AT.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18720674
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entheogenic-gnosis
#9 Posted : 6/7/2016 2:03:55 PM
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dreamer042 wrote:
J Psychoactive Drugs. 2008 Jun;40(2):219-22.
Ecstasy analogues found in cacti.
Bruhn JG, El-Seedi HR, Stephanson N, Beck O, Shulgin AT.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18720674


In the context which that paper used safrole would be seen as an MDMA analogue...

homopiperonylamine is inactive, yes it's only a single methyl grouping from MDA, so structurally it's an analogue, but by all other means I would not be comfortable with that term...

Yes, lobivine, homopiperonylamine (3,4-methylenedioxy-phenethylamine), and so on, are are 3,4-methylenedioxy phenethylamines, and yes they are very closely related to MDMA*, yet when it comes to the plant world I have yet to see the 3,4-methylenedioxy-substitution on an amphetamine.

(An "amphetamine" is "alpha-methyl-phenethylamine", it's a single CH3 (methyl) group to the alpha carbon of the ethyl side chain different from PEA)

There are phenylpropene compounds such as 3-methoxy,4,5-methylenedioxy-allylbenzene (myristicin) which occur in the essential oil of some spices which also contain the methylenedioxy moiety, yet they are missing the necessary amine groupings, 5-(2-propenyl)-1,3-benzodioxole (safrole) and isosafrole also share the 3,4-methylenedioxy moiety.

Shulgins "essential amphetamines" are compounds derived from spices which are only a single amine grouping away from becoming an active psychedelic:

Quote:
Elsewhere, I have made comparisons between myristicin and MMDA, and between safrole and MDA. And here there is a similar parallel between elemicin and TMA. What are these relationships between the essential oils and the amphetamines? In a word, there are some ten essential oils that have a three carbon chain, and each lacks only a molecule of ammonia to become an amphetamine. So, maybe these essential oils, or "almost" amphetamines, can serve as an index for the corresponding real amphetamine counterparts. I had originally called this family the "natural" amphetamines, but my son suggested calling them the "essential" amphetamines, and I like that. At the time that I had synthesized TMA, back there in the '50s, I had the impulse to explore this body of Essential Amphetamines. As the old folk-wisdom says: "Nature is trying to tell us something." TIHKAL;shulgin


Quote:
1) The 4-methoxy pattern. The pivotal essential oil is 4-allylanisole, or methyl chavicol, or estragole (called esdragol in the old literature). This allyl compound is found in turpentine, anise, fennel, bay, tarragon, and basil. Its smell is light, and reminiscent of fennel. The propenyl analogue is called anethole, or anise camphor, and it is found in both anise and camphor. It is a waxy solid, and has a very intense smell of anise or fennel. At low concentrations, it is sweet, as in magnolia blossoms, where it is also found. The drinks that turn cloudy with water dilution (Pernod-like liqueurs, and ouzo and roki), are heavy with it, since it was the natural flavoring in the original absinthe. That drink was very popular in the last century, as an intoxicant which produced an altered state of consciousness beyond that which could be ascribed to alcohol alone. It contained wormwood, which proved to be neurologically damaging. The flavorings, such as anethole, are still big things in synthetic liqueurs such as vermouth. Old anethole, when exposed to air and light, gets thick and sticky and yellowish, and becomes quite disagreeable to taste. Maybe it is polymerizing, or maybe oxidizing to stuff that dimerizes. Whatever. These changes are why old spices in the cabinet are best discarded. And adding ammonia to any of these natural product oils produces, in principle, 4-methoxyamphetamine, 4-MA.

(2) The 3,4-dimethoxy pattern. The main actor here is methyleugenol, or 4-allyl-1,2-dimethoxybenzene. This is located in almost every item in the spice cabinet. It is in citronella, bay (which is laurel, which is myrtle), pimiento, allspice, pepper, tree-tea oil, and on and on. It has a faint smell of cloves, and when dilute is immediately mistaken for carnations. The propenyl analogue is, not unreasonably, methylisoeugenol, a bit more scarce, and seems to always be that little minor peak in any essential oil analysis. The compounds missing that methyl group on the 4-oxygen are famous. The allyl material is eugenol, 4-allylguaiacol, and it is in cinnamon, nutmeg, cloves, sassafras and myrrh. You taste it and it burns. You smell it and think immediately of cloves. And its property as an anesthetic, in the form of a clove, is well known in the folk-treatment of toothaches. Actually, flowers of clove (the gillyflower, like the carnation) are the small, pointy things that decorate baked hams and, when stuck into apples, make pomander balls. This anesthetic property has recently led to a drug abuse fad, called clove cigarettes. Very strong, very flavorful, and very corrosive things from Southeast Asia. The eugenol that is present numbs the throat, and allows many strong cigarettes to be smoked without pain. The propenyl analogue is isoeugenol, with a smell that is subtle but very long lasting, used more in soaps and perfumes than in foods. The amine addition to the methyleugenol world produces 3,4-dimethoxyamphetamine, or 3,4-DMA. The isomer with the other methyl group missing is chavibetol (3-hydroxy-4-methoxyallylbenzene) and is found in the pepper leaf that is used with betel nut. A couple of positional rearrangement isomers of methyleugenol are known in the plant world. The 2,4-isomer is called osmorrhizole, and the conjugated form is isoosmorrhizole or nothosmyrnol; both are found in carrot-like vegetables. They, with ammonia, would give 2,4-DMA. And the 3,5-dimethoxyallylbenzene isomer from artemisia (a pungent herb commonly called mugwort) and from sage, would give rise to 3,5-DMA. This is an unexplored isomer which would be both an antidote for opium as well as a stimulant, if the classical reputation of mugwort is transferred to the amphetamine.

(3) The 3,4-methylenedioxy pattern. One of the most famous essential oils is safrole, or 4-allyl-1,2-methylenedioxybenzene. This is the mainstay of sassafras oil, and it and its conjugated isomer isosafrole have a smell that is immediately familiar: root beer! These are among the most widely distributed essential oils, being present in most of the spices, including the heavies such as cinnamon and nutmeg. I am not aware of the 2,3-isomer ever having been found in nature. Adding ammonia to either would give MDA.

(4) The 3-methoxy-4,5-methylenedioxy pattern. The parent compound is myristicin, 5-allyl-1-methoxy-2,3-methylenedioxybenzene, and the source of this is nutmeg (or the botanically parallel material, mace). The nutmeg is the seed of the tree Myristica fragrans and mace is the fibrous covering of the seed. The two spices are virtually identical as to their chemical composition. Myristicin and the conjugated isomer isomyristicin are also found in parsley oil, and in dill. This was the oil that was actually shown to be converted to MMDA by the addition of ammonia by passage through an in vitro liver preparation. So here is the major justification for the equation between the essential oils and the Essential Amphetamines. Care must be taken to make an exact distinction between myristicin (this essential oil) and myristin (the fat) which is really trimyristin or glyceryl trimyristate from nutmeg and coconut. This is the fat from myristic acid, the C-14 fatty acid, and these two similar names are often interchanged even in the scientific literature.

(5) The 2-methoxy-3,4-methylenedioxy pattern. This is the second of the three natural methoxy methylenedioxy orientations. Croweacin is 2-methoxy-3,4-methylenedioxyallylbenzene, and it takes its name from the binomial for the plant Eriostemon crowei from the worlds of rue and the citrus plants. It corresponds to the essential amphetamine MMDA-3a. This oil is found in plants of the Family Rutaceae. My memories of this area of botany are of Ruta graveolens, the common rue, whose small leaves smelled to me, for all the world, like cat urine. This plant has always fascinated me because of a most remarkable recipe that I was given by a very, very conservative fellow-club member, one evening, after rehearsal. He told me of a formula that had provided him with the most complete relief from arthritic pain he had ever known. It was a native decoction he had learned of many years eariler, when he was traveling in Mexico. One took equal quantities of three plants, Ruta graveolens (or our common rue), Rosmarinus officinalis (better known as rosemary), and Cannabis sativa (which is recognized in many households simply as marijuana). Three plants all known in folklore, rue as a symbol for repentance, rosemary as a symbol of remembrance, and pot, well, I guess it is a symbol of a lot of things to a lot of people. Anyway, equal quantities of these three plants are allowed to soak in a large quantity of rubbing alcohol for a few weeks. Then the alcoholic extracts are clarified, and allowed to evaporate in the open air to a thick sludge. This then was rubbed on the skin, where the arthritis was troublesome, and always rubbed in the direction of the extremity. It was not into, but onto the body that it was applied. All this from a very conservative Republican friend!

The methoxy-methylenedioxy pattern is also found in nature with the 2,4,5-orientation pattern. The allyl-2,4,5-isomer is called asaricin. It, and its propenyl-isomer, carpacin, are from the Carpano tree which grows in the Solomon Islands. All these plants are used in folk medicine. These two systems, the 2,3,4- and the 2,4,5-orientations, potentially give rise, with ammonia, to MMDA-3a and MMDA-2.

(6) The 3,4,5-trimethoxy pattern. Elemicin is the well studied essential oil, 5-allyl-1,2,3-trimethoxybenzene, primarily from the oil of elemi. It is, like myristicin, a component of the Oil of Nutmeg, but it is also found in several of the Oils of Camphor, and in the resin of the Pili in the Philippines. This tree is the source of the Oil of Elemi. I had found a trace component in nutmeg many years ago that proved to be 5-methoxyeugenol, or elemicin without the 4-methyl group; it is also present in the magnolia plant. The aldehyde that corresponds to this is syringaldehyde, and its prefix has been spun into many natural products. Any natural product with a syring somewhere in it has a hydroxy between two methoxys. The amphetamine base from elemicin or isoelemicin would be TMA, the topic of this very recipe.

(7) The 2,4,5-trimethoxy pattern. There is an essential oil called asarone that is 2,4,5-trimethoxy-1-propenylbenzene. It is the trans- or alpha-isomer, and the cis-isomer is known as beta-asarone. It is the isomerization analogue of the much more rare 1-allyl-2,4,5-trimethoxybenzene, gamma-asarone, or euasarone, or sekishone. Asarone is the major component of Oil of Calamus obtained from the rhizomes of Acorus calamus, the common Sweet Flag that grows wild on the edges of swamps throughout North America, Europe, and Asia. It has been used as a flavoring of liqueurs and, as almost every other plant known to man, has been used as a medicine. In fact, in Manitoba this plant was called Rat-root by the Cree Indians in the Lake Winnipeg area known as New Iceland, and Indian-root by the Icelandic pioneers. It was used externally for the treatment of wounds, and internally for most illnesses. There apparently is no report of central effects. The corresponding propanone, acoramone (or 2,4,5-trimethoxyphenylacetone), is also present in Oil of Calamus. The styrene that corresponds to asarone is found in a number of plants, and is surprisingly toxic to brine shrimp. The older literature describes an allyl-trimethoxy benzene called calamol, but it has never been pinned down as to structure. The isolation of gamma-asarone or euasarone from Oil of Xixin (from wild ginger) has given rise to a potential problem of nomenclature. One of the Genus names associated with wild ginger is Asiasarum which looks very much like the name asarone, which comes from the Genus Acorus. And a second Genus of medical plants also called wild ginger is simply called Asarum. There is an Asarum forbesi from central China, and it is known to give a pleasant smell to the body. And there is Asarum seiboldi which is largely from Korea and Manchuria. It has many medical uses, including the treatment of deafness, epilepsy, and rheumatism. The amphetamine that would arise from this natural treasure chest is TMA-2.

(Cool The 2,5-dimethoxy-3,4-methylenedioxy pattern. The parent allyl benzene is apiole (with a final "e"Pleased or parsley camphor, and it is the major component of parsley seed oil. Its conjugated isomer is called isoapiole, and they are valuable as the chemical precurors to the amination product, DMMDA. Whereas both of these essential oils are white solids, there is a green oily liquid that had been broadly used years ago in medicine, called green, or liquid apiol (without the final "e"Pleased. It comes from the seeds of parsley by ether extraction, and when the chlorophyll has been removed, it is known as yellow apiol. With the fats removed by saponification and distillation, the old term for the medicine was apiolin. I would assume that any of these would give rise to white, crystalline apiole on careful distillation, but I have never tried to do it. The commercial Oil of Parsley is so readily available.

(9) The 2,3-dimethoxy-4,5-methylenedioxy pattern. The second of the three tetraoxygenated essential oils is 1-allyl-2,3-dimethoxy-4,5-methylenedioxybenzene, commonly called dillapiole and it comes, not surprisingly, from the oils of any of the several dill plants around the world. It is a thick, almost colorless liquid, but its isomerization product, isodillapiole, is a white crystalline product which melts sharply. This, by the theoretical addition of ammonia, gives DMMDA-2.

(10) The tetramethoxy pattern. The third and last of the tetra-oxygenated essential oils, is 1-allyl-2,3,4,5-tetramethoxybenzene. This is present as a minor component in the oil of parsley, but it is much more easily obtained by synthesis. It, and its iso-compound, and the amination product, are discussed under the last of theTen Essential Amphetamines, TA.

One must remember that the term "essential" has nothing to do with the meaning of needed, or required. The word's origin is essence, something with an odor or smell. Thus, the essential oils are those oils that have a fragrance, and the Essential Amphetamines are those compounds that can, in principle, be made from them by the addition of ammonia in the body.

There were a few interesting experimental trials that were based on these natural oils. Methoxyeugenol was assayed up to a 10 milligram level, and asarone at up to a 70 milligram level, and neither had any effects at all. And, in an attempt to challenge the "oil-to-amphetamine" concept, I made up a mixture of 1 part MDA, 2 parts TMA and 5 parts MMDA. A total of 100 milligrams of this combination (which I had named the "Pseunut Cocktail" for pseudo-nutmeg) should be equivalent to the safrole, elemicin and myristicin that would be in 5 grams of nutmeg. And 100 milligrams indeed produced quite a sparkle and considerable eye-dilation. But then, I have never taken 5 grams of nutmeg, so I cannot make any comparisons. TIHKAL;shulgin


-eg
 
ijahdan
#10 Posted : 6/7/2016 7:50:43 PM

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I assume 'adding ammonia' to these essential oils to produce the amphetamine version is not as simple as just soaking them in ammonia and then evaporating. Can this be achieved in practice?
 
 
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