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Harmala Alkaloids and THC? Options
 
JohnIce2
#1 Posted : 3/13/2016 4:48:32 AM

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Hey everyone! I recently extracted some Rue Harmala Acetate (I used vinegar so it should be in that form). After doing such extract sublingually at a dosage in between 50-140mg I notice effects. After spitting the mixture out 20 mins after taking I proceed to smoke a pinch of some Stomper (strain) and after about 15 mins passed I note that patterns, colors (brightness and saturation), time, color shifts, visual distortions (things shifting size and shape a bit), were all stronger then they have been on much higher amounts previously used of the same strain (I normally trip on pot. But in comparison of it alone and it with the extract, the latter is much stronger).
Also, No nausea was felt except when I tasted the extract.

Now is it the pot that makes the Harmalines stronger? or do they both compliment each other and increase both their effects? I'm just curious as to what their interaction is specifically.
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LibertyforAll
#2 Posted : 3/13/2016 4:58:24 AM

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you are the interaction Cool Thumbs up
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JohnIce2
#3 Posted : 3/13/2016 7:05:41 AM

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Shocked Mind Blown.

Made a smokable form and put it in my Modded RBA atomizer with some E-Juice and it is rather intense. Exstecially after a a bowl or three lol.Big grin
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entheogenic-gnosis
#4 Posted : 3/13/2016 10:12:20 AM
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I take p. harmala seeds and cannabis together on occasion, but have not noticed any effect other than that produced by THC and that produced by harmala alkaloids, I would not say one is really enhancing the other...

I'm mean I feel the harmala alkaloids, which is always mild, because I won't venture over 3g, at this point you just get sick, rather than intensifying psychedelia, so 3g is my stopping point...

I've never found anything very fascinating here, the mono amine oxidase action won't effect the cannabinoids, so it's just the mild harmala intoxication combined with THC...

-eg
 
Noisy
#5 Posted : 3/13/2016 8:11:51 PM

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In my experience, there is something interesting when cannabis and harmalas are used together.
I tried both harmine and harmaline sublingually (15mg and 30mg respectively) and smoked 20 minutes after a light dose of weed. Harmaline gave a really strong sedative tone to the experience, making difficult even the fact to move. Harmine gave a more "psychedelic" (of course very mild compared to a real psychedelic experience) tone to the weed effect. I found this last combo (sublingual harmine + weed) enough interesting to plan to try it again in the future. I felt that both were increasing the effect of the other: weed was really stronger felt and so was harmine. The "psychedelic tone" I was speaking about was comparable to a really strong cannabis experience (that I rarely felt in my life), with only a ridiculous amount of weed (perhaps 0,05g of a light herb).
This said, I never had such an intense experience as you described but I also never really trip on pot!
 
JohnIce2
#6 Posted : 3/14/2016 3:45:07 AM

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Haha well in my experience I am able to smoke green on top of something Psychedelic (only works with psychedelics I've noticed) and then when back to complete baseline, smoke again and have almost the same effects as the previously mixed.

For example. When I did DXM with weed I would feel more of a DXM high and a weed high when just on weed after doing the combo. I have also been able to stack experiences such as Harmalas, 5-Meo N,N Dmt Bufo (All three unrefined and done at the same time in a mixture), and weed on top of the two (separately as in just with say Harmalas, and then the mix together) and then once again, when on complete baseline smoke a bowl and get similar-to-the same effects as the experiences, just all combined together.

I believe it may be HPPD that I have been prone to ever since I did Nutmeg and weed this one time. After that (my first time mixing anything with it besides alcohol) Weed was never the same for me. Just flat out never. But after awhile of being afraid of smoking because... well pretty much tripping everytime I did... I finally got over it and realized that I could use this to make more meaningful experiences easier to achieve (like if I run outa extract, just grab a G).

But I do find that Harmalas mixed definitely produce a different experience overall. It does make since that their effects would both be present but separate, and I may just be more prone to them mixing because of my reaction to weed.
Also I feel the same Sedation MEGA CRAZY STONED AF Couch Lock effect you mentioned Noisy. It got way way more intense after I mixed my 5th pull off my chali. with the Harmalas tho.

Sorry for the long post. HahaVery happy
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Dogbark
#7 Posted : 3/15/2016 1:57:18 PM

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As someone who takes high doses of harmalas on the regular (8g+) and smokes weed occasionally i can say that ill never smoke weed without harmalas again. For me it removes most of the anxiety, tones the mindfuck down by a few notes and makes my heartbeat more regular. Also it completely removes the sedation that comes 2 - 3 hours after smoking.
 
skoobysnax
#8 Posted : 3/15/2016 2:44:51 PM

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Dogbark wrote:
As someone who takes high doses of harmalas on the regular (8g+) and smokes weed occasionally i can say that ill never smoke weed without harmalas again. For me it removes most of the anxiety, tones the mindfuck down by a few notes and makes my heartbeat more regular. Also it completely removes the sedation that comes 2 - 3 hours after smoking.

Here is a nice combo I had last night. 25mg extracted harmalas sublingual, after 2hrs I had 500mg 10x Blue Lotus extract dissolved in hot water with honey and after 30min I vaped 50mg spice. Man the trip was amazing so mellow and smooth once I settled in. I followed that by vaping some Headband cannabis flower in my Volta. Very nice end to a day. I like to wait to smoke cannabis after DMT. Sometimes if the cannabis gets me first I abort the launch.
Marijuana, LSD, psilocybin, and DMT they all changed the way I see
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JohnIce2
#9 Posted : 3/17/2016 12:58:22 AM

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Maybe the couch lock I have been experiencing is do to the high level of b Myrcene in my strain. Pleased
and nice to hear you had a good time!!!
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LibertyforAll
#10 Posted : 3/18/2016 3:24:00 AM

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JohnIce2 wrote:
Maybe the couch lock I have been experiencing is do to the high level of b Myrcene in my strain. Pleased
and nice to hear you had a good time!!!

use harmalas and smoke dmt for the fireworks to begin
I believe in freedom for everyone.
'movies are for people who lack real drugs.' -anne halonium
 
JohnIce2
#11 Posted : 3/19/2016 4:09:45 AM

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Hahaha I would but my recent Chali. extracts were really inpure and I was not able to experience anything above decent OEVs and other effects. And had to smoke it with Marijuana to activate it (make it actually make me trip).
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LibertyforAll
#12 Posted : 3/19/2016 4:19:18 PM

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JohnIce2 wrote:
Hahaha I would but my recent Chali. extracts were really inpure and I was not able to experience anything above decent OEVs and other effects. And had to smoke it with Marijuana to activate it (make it actually make me trip).

I never really viewed leaves as for extracting, not really for any other reason than it just doesn't seem right to me. So I never tried it, I've heard it goes not very well often.
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JohnIce2
#13 Posted : 3/19/2016 5:18:12 PM

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Well haha I have decided to step up my pulls a bit and use some other extracts (from Yopo) to beef it up a bit. I am prolly just gonna go get some Naphtha sometime and Re-X the stuff cause while the purity is enough to provide a noticeable high, "Weed Enhancer (as called by some associates of mine)" Does not quite cut it for any DMT or related molecule containing plant haha.
But yeah I think because its a leaf material, you get alot more impurities in your extract, especially if your new at it like I am (good thing I have a cheap vendor!).
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Ulim
#14 Posted : 3/20/2016 3:21:06 AM

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I often smoke my cannabis with passiflora. Im not 100% sure if it indeed does carry any extra punch but passiflora does contain beta-Carbolines like Harmaline and Harmine.
By itself smoking passiflora does calm you down just like its tea does.
What I did once was take Nutmeg which contains Myristicin which does act as a weak MAOI.
Then I smoked some pot.
And I was really really high for hours Surprised. I had the comedown even before the effects stopped. I do not recommend this at all because the whole trip took over 15 hours and even had some after effects the next day.
If you want I can go further into the effects and how the trip went.
 
JohnIce2
#15 Posted : 3/20/2016 3:38:53 PM

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I (unfortunately lol) have alot of experience with Nutmeg. and I can say that visuals increased for me about 2 fold after I smoked a bowl. And sure I would love to hear some of the descriptions. When I smoked on nutmeg I ended up getting visuals where stuff would bend and move around the room (or at least try to) on its own. Comedown on that one was even hard for me. After that trip I didn't take Nutmeg for like a LONG time... Because I was still trippin a little about 3 months later and anytime I smoked a bowl after said experience, it would damn near replicate it.
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Ulim
#16 Posted : 3/20/2016 5:40:00 PM

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JohnIce2 wrote:
I (unfortunately lol) have alot of experience with Nutmeg. and I can say that visuals increased for me about 2 fold after I smoked a bowl. And sure I would love to hear some of the descriptions. When I smoked on nutmeg I ended up getting visuals where stuff would bend and move around the room (or at least try to) on its own. Comedown on that one was even hard for me. After that trip I didn't take Nutmeg for like a LONG time... Because I was still trippin a little about 3 months later and anytime I smoked a bowl after said experience, it would damn near replicate it.

I had very weak visuals. Plain surfaces like windows or doors had a kind of dotted texture that dissapeared when I went closer.
The whole trip went somthing like this: Extreme Euphoria like N2O gives for half an hour after taking the pot. Then I simply faded away. I couldnt really think straight and everytime I didnt concentrate on something my toughts felt like they were real.
Everything I tought about was like real.
And then I snapped out of it when i concetrated like waking up from a dream. This happened to me for over 3 hours and I even went to a supermarket. I didnt even notice that my eyes where red as blood.
I also went into a huge eating frenzy and ate soooo much.
I had a brick dry mouth for the next few days & during the trip and my limbs felt weak and numb.
Also when I went to sleep my muscles cramped and it felt like I was buried in sand or some heavy material. It didnt feel painful at all and everytime I moved the feeling went away as fast as it came again when I stopped.
Also my butthole felt like it would tear up itself and I had a bad time with my digestive system the next day. Confused
Im never doin that again, probably. (the feeling of the trip was great but the comedown and negative side effects really ruin it)
I did have some afterglow the weeks after it and i coulnt really concentrade well but that went away very fast. Im glad I did it when I had holiday.
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#17 Posted : 3/22/2016 1:42:47 PM
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JohnIce2 wrote:
I (unfortunately lol) have alot of experience with Nutmeg. and I can say that visuals increased for me about 2 fold after I smoked a bowl. And sure I would love to hear some of the descriptions. When I smoked on nutmeg I ended up getting visuals where stuff would bend and move around the room (or at least try to) on its own. Comedown on that one was even hard for me. After that trip I didn't take Nutmeg for like a LONG time... Because I was still trippin a little about 3 months later and anytime I smoked a bowl after said experience, it would damn near replicate it.



When I was a youth I ran into some legal troubles (involving drugs) and had to spend 3 years behind bars, any way, I had a friend in the kitchen who had smuggled a plastic glove topped with powdered nutmeg back onto the dorm for me, a ate the whole thing...how much can a nitrile glove hold? 20 grams? More? Regardless it was disgusting, every ten minutes I would "burp" up nauseating gas bubbles that tasted like the strongest scent of nutmeg that you could imagine...after I swallowed all the nutmeg I ate 100mgs of seroquil and went to sleep.
...WAKE UP! 4:30 am, the hustle us off the dorm to central dining, I felt stoned! I had been without cannabis for over a year and the only drugs I had done were methylphenidate, adderal, seroquil, basically just the pharmaceutical garbage that people can "cheek" for you (which just means they hide them in their mouth from staff when the meds are given), any way I was incredibly happy, though I felt brain-dead, I could also feel my eyes "being bloodshot", I was definantly intoxicated, no visuals, lots of body discomfort, very marijuana like...

I never tried nutmeg again...

(I read when Malcolm-x was incarcerated he tried nutmeg, which inspired me to do the same, plus in a juvenile correctional facility your options are limited! Though after I got my GED I joined a botany coarse, there was a greenhouse on the prison campus, so I eventually managed to obtain (and was disappointed by) many of the plants described in a "school education drug library" book on psychedelic plants...I obviously could only obtain plants growable in a greenhouse and known in botany as ornamental or food, so of coarse I was growing ipomea vines, Astrophytum asterias cacti, Ariocarpus retusus, Passiflora incarnata vine, things like this, the pseudo-psychedelic ornamental plants that the staff were not yet "hip" too...)



As for the harmala alkaloid and THC combination, I feel I must use too much THC/cannabinoids for it to have anything but mild effect, as for the harmalas, the THC helps with body discomfort, and the co-intoxication feels nice...but aside from feeling mildly intoxicated on harmala alkaloids and stoned on marijuana simultaneously, I couldn't see anything really special about it...

seeing as how THC is not a monoamine (or an amine at all, or even an alkaloid) a mono amine oxidase inhibitor would have no effect on the compound, so it isn't enhancing it in any way, it's just a dual intoxication...

Since I smoke cannabis every day, every time I use a compound it's in combination with cannabis, I guess it's just gotten to the point where I see cannabis intoxication as my baseline mental state...

Cannabis does not get me "high", it just makes me calm, relaxed, happy, and inspired, I have not been able to get more than a ++ (shulgin scale) from cannabis for quite some time...I don't even see it as a real drug, I put it in the same category as coffee.

(I'm not saying cannabis can not be a powerful intoxicant, because it can, it can be just as intense as any other psychedelic...it CAN be, but because of my constant use, I'm unable to obtain such effects...



β-myrcene likely acts as a via alpha 2-adrenoceptor stimulated release of endogenous opioids...mu opioid antagonists reverse thus compounds analgesic effects, suggesting this proposed method of action is accurate, when mice are given high doses of myrcene it induces sleep, suggesting sensitive action of this compound.

It's been suggested that "couch-lock" is partially a result of high myrcene, though many cannabinoids and terpeniods and other compounds found in cannabis may also contribute to this effect.

Quote:
less well known is that fact that high β-Myrcene levels in cannabis (usually above 0.5%) result in the well known ‘couch lock’ effect of classic Indica strains of cannabis; Sativa strains normally contain less than 0.5% β-Myrcene. http://steephilllab.com/...penoid-reference-guide/

This link is great for information regarding cannabinoids


Quote:
About 20,000 terpenes exist in nature; more than 200 have been identified in cannabis (compared to 111 cannabinoids). https://www.whaxy.com/learn/myrcene-cannabis


I've noticed that the smell and taste of cannabis greatly effect the subjective intoxication it produces...

Now, THC and the active cannabinoids are odorless and tasteless, so when a person speculates that the taste and smell effect the experiance, there is actual pharmacological evidence to support this!

Cannabis is fascinating, as a terpenoid hydrocarbon, it's actually very unique chemically in terms of psychedelics, or even psychoactives.

True psychedelics are either tryptamines, phenethylamines, or lysergamides, they all contain carbon, hydrogen and nitrogen, they are all alkaloids and amines...

Now, the cannabinoids are terpenoid hydrocarbons, no nitrogen, they are not amines, they are not alkaloids, and they can not be reacted with acids to form salts.

So I enjoy the novel aspects of these compounds from that perspective, but it also makes cannabis and it's compounds a good deal more challenging to learn, as they are unique from.all other psychedelics...

Except the salvinorins...

Salvinorin-a is trans-neoclerodane diterpenoid hydrocarbon, it even shares a similar three ring structure to cannabinoid compounds, however salvinorin-a is a kappa opioid receptor agonist, making this compound unique even from THC, as its the first non-alkaloid known to be an agonist at the kappa opioid receptor.

Ok...I'm getting way to off topic.

-eg
 
entheogenic-gnosis
#18 Posted : 3/22/2016 2:10:44 PM
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JohnIce2 wrote:
Maybe the couch lock I have been experiencing is do to the high level of b Myrcene in my strain. Pleased
and nice to hear you had a good time!!!



How do you know your strain of cannabis is high in beta-myrcene?

-eg
 
Ulim
#19 Posted : 3/22/2016 3:30:54 PM

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entheogenic-gnosis wrote:
[quote=JohnIce2]

When I was a youth I ran into some legal troubles (involving drugs) and had to spend 3 years behind bars, any way, I had a friend in the kitchen who had smuggled a plastic glove topped with powdered nutmeg back onto the dorm for me, a ate the whole thing...how much can a nitrile glove hold? 20 grams? More? Regardless it was disgusting, every ten minutes I would "burp" up nauseating gas bubbles that tasted like the strongest scent of nutmeg that you could imagine...after I swallowed all the nutmeg I ate 100mgs of seroquil and went to sleep.
...WAKE UP! 4:30 am, the hustle us off the dorm to central dining, I felt stoned! I had been without cannabis for over a year and the only drugs I had done were methylphenidate, adderal, seroquil, basically just the pharmaceutical garbage that people can "cheek" for you (which just means they hide them in their mouth from staff when the meds are given), any way I was incredibly happy, though I felt brain-dead, I could also feel my eyes "being bloodshot", I was definantly intoxicated, no visuals, lots of body discomfort, very marijuana like...

I never tried nutmeg again...


Eating nutmeg pure is disgusting as hell. When I took it i dumped it into some yoghurt but couldnt even finish it.
And I had this brain-dead feeling too when I tried nutmeg. I was just sitting there not reacting to my sourroundings. I really would like to know what compound causes this effect. Maybe an extraction could eliminate all the bad sideeffects like the dry mouth and body pain?
 
JohnIce2
#20 Posted : 3/22/2016 11:25:32 PM

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entheogenic-gnosis wrote:
JohnIce2 wrote:
Maybe the couch lock I have been experiencing is do to the high level of b Myrcene in my strain. Pleased
and nice to hear you had a good time!!!



How do you know your strain of cannabis is high in beta-Myrcene?

-eg


I have a vial of pure b-Myrcene and I know the smell quite well. The strain (whatever it was) I had smelled heavily of it compared to other buds I had had previously.

And Ulim, If for some reason you are still interested in nutmeg (the stuff is horrible for your body btw) try the therapeutic grade essential oil. DO NOT EAT IT, rather do it transdermally.

Also Nutmeg has Elemicin, Myristicin, Safrol and those are probably all spelled wrong. But from what I beleive, Elemicin causes a decent ammount of the hallucinagenic effect from the nutmeg and is only active in the body due to nutmeg containing natural enzyme inhibitors that allow the Elemicin, Myristicin, and Safrol to be used by the body. Thats just a simple explination but if you go the essential oil route, I would have Nutmeg oil and mabye mix some more Elemi oil with that to increase the visuals. Also be careful about your Myristicin intake... It can be toxic at some levels.

Please mind my spelling. haha
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