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Iboga + Melatonin + Passionflower = JUST DON'T DO IT!! Options
 
alkan0id
#1 Posted : 7/26/2015 12:02:53 PM

hitchin' a ride

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(times are approximate)

T+0h 280mg Tabernanthe Iboga TA extract
T+1h 1 cup of Rooibos tea
T+5h 1 cup of decaffeinated green tea
T+5h ~2g Ashwagandha root powder
T+6h 3mg melatonin (with 10mg Vitamin B6)
T+7h 500mg Passiflora Incarnata 10:1 extract

Oh boy...

It had been a while since I'd taken more than a microdose of iboga and had been feeling quite lost recently and in need of the loving guidance that only that special endangered African plant can bring, so I weighed out 280mg of TA and poured it down my neck at 7:30pm last night.

I'd had two previous experiences of TA of 240mg and ~400mg, so I knew roughly what to expect at this dose level. As before, it was truly awesome and also as before, incredibly difficult to put into words. But far greater men than me have taken far greater doses and written far greater trip reports than I could, and that's not what this post is about. After coming and going in waves over the course of about 7 hours, the visuals had completely faded and I was very tired and went to bed.

Now, I can only logically assume that what happened next was down to one or all of the co-administered substances listed in the itinerary above. It was about 2am, I crawled into bed eagerly anticipating some much-needed sleep. Within seconds, something felt wrong. Panic. Anxiety and heart pounding - fight/flight reaction. Uh oh. The visuals were back. The whole trip was back. But not just BACK - it was way, way stronger than the peak had been 4-5 hours ago, and unlike the normal low dose TA trip which is 99% nice and pleasant and uplifting with very few rough edges and almost no sinister vibes, this trip that had been completely over a few minutes ago was turning nasty fast.

These were by far the most powerful visuals I've had on iboga, surpassing those I had at the peak of my 400mg trip a few months ago in intensity, velocity and vividness by a factor of 10. And they were not friendly. They still fit the same "style" as "normal" iboga visuals, except now they had much more power and depth, and were nearly all extremely sinister and dark. This was easily worse than that 1p-LSDMT hyperslap I'd had on 200mg of acacia fumarate 3 months ago. It was one of those "Oh my god, I'm never taking drugs again" trips. Laughing

I wish I could describe these visuals. Looking back at them now from a relieved state of detachment, they were amazing. Lots of demons and zombie-like figures with menacing faces in scenes of depth and colouration that put DMT to shame. Unlike all my other iboga experiences, including this one up to this point, I felt quite a lot of dissociation, in that the fear and demonic visuals had such a grip on me that my handle on the outside world was diminished. The "fear gateway" of dissociation - that feeling of being pulled away from terra ferma... by demons. Twisted Evil

Unlike the visuals in the earlier part of the trip, which I had to carefully "feed" by relaxing and letting go of trying to control the experience, these ones imposed themselves on me, and I had to employ similar techniques to *suppress* them. I would see faces of people in incredibly detailed situations, and I'd be forced to keep looking at their them as they twisted and contorted into evil grins. At times it was like I was looking through at CCTV camera footage in another universe. The intense, yet distorted, realism was incredibly disconcerting. Each interlude that I got sucked into would overpower my grip on reality.

The DMT entities smelt blood and joined the party, making themselves known through the "iboga portal" instead of the DMT one. Imagine a DMT entity attack, but in the "style" of iboga. Those "hands" were grabbing at me, trying to catch me. A couple of times I managed to fall asleep and the fear was all gone, but as soon as I woke up a few minutes later it was back on me 100% - like an inverted nightmare - where the waking part is the scary part and sleep is the relief. If this had got much worse I would have fired up the computer and jumped back on chat again, because this was something else.

Melatonin and/or Passionflower look to me to be the two most likely culprits for this massive alteration of a spent trip. It won't be the ashwagandha since I've taken that before bed every day, every trip, for the last year, with no noticable effect. It reminds me of what Jorkest said about taking MXE at the end of an LSD trip - it brings back the LSD even stronger than it was at the peak.

I'm caatious about combining substances since that 1p-LSD debacle, but popping a little melatonin before bed at the tail end of a low dose iboga trip sounded perfectly harmless to me at the time. Guess not, lol. I'd be interested to see if anyone else has had similar experiences with this combo, and would warn anyone who hasn't, to not Smile

peace,

alk



Uh uh. I know what you're thinking. "Did he load 40 milligrams or only 30?" Well to tell you the truth in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being this is DMT, the most powerful hallucinogen in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've gotta ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?
 

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RhythmSpring
#2 Posted : 7/27/2015 2:01:53 AM

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Quote:
Lots of demons and zombie-like figures with menacing faces in scenes of depth and colouration that put DMT to shame.


I've experienced this, too, at night, past the "peak" of the experience. Zombies, corpses, like I was sleeping in a graveyard that was coming to "life."

Yikes. Sorry it was so scary for you. When it was happening to me, it was pretty unpleasant, but I felt safe and strangely comforted by the death around me.

I would definitely point my finger at the Passionflower, too, it being a weak MAOI. Even weak MAOIs interact awkwardly with Iboga. Like Rhodiola rosea, for example.

Iboga likes to work alone. Thanks for sharing, Alk.
From the unspoken
Grows the once broken
 
alkan0id
#3 Posted : 7/27/2015 8:26:02 AM

hitchin' a ride

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Hahaha.. Rhodiola Rosea. I've been dosing 250-350mg of 5% extract every day for a couple of months now. That might explain it.. however, I did not notice any appreciable difference during the trip proper, it was only after it had appeared to wear off and I went to bed that the horror show kicked in - hence I ascribe the zombie show to the melatonin/passiflora combo.

I was in a mild trippy state all day the day after (yesterday), which intensified into the evening. Going to bed was still nervy - nowhere near as scary and intense as the night before, but still tricky. The visuals were still rapid and detailed, but nowhere near as menacing.

It's now Monday morning and I've dosed 335mg of the Rhodiola extract and 800mg of 10:1 brahmi extract. Today should be an interesting day at work...
Uh uh. I know what you're thinking. "Did he load 40 milligrams or only 30?" Well to tell you the truth in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being this is DMT, the most powerful hallucinogen in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've gotta ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?
 
Chan
#4 Posted : 7/27/2015 2:46:29 PM

Another Leaf on the Vine


Posts: 553
Joined: 29-Jul-2013
Last visit: 09-Dec-2019
Quote:
Iboga likes to work alone.


^^^

From experience, I wholeheartedly agree.

Avoid combining any of the following with iboga too:

Quote:
POTENT CYP2D6 INHIBITORS
Cannabidiol (from Cannabis)
Echinacea purpurea
Goldenseal
Pomegranate juice (Punica granatum)
Pommelo
Saint John’s Wort (high dose)
Starfruit juice
White grapefruit juice

MODERATE CYP2D6 INHIBITORS
Black pepper
Calamus EO
Kava
Pi. cubeba
Quercetin
Zingiber aromaticum

WEAK CYP2D6 INHIBITORS
Alpha-asarone (found in Calamus EO)
Black cohosh
Capsaicin (found in cayenne pepper, habanero peppers, etc.)
Cayenne pepper
Common sage
Cryptotanshinone
Curcuma heyneana
Curcumin
German chamomile EO
Ginkgo biloba
Habanero pepper
Milk Thistle
Safrole
Tanshinone I
Turmeric
“I sometimes marvel at how far I’ve come - blissful, even, in the knowledge that I am slowly becoming a well-evolved human being - only to have the illusion shattered by an episode of bad behaviour that contradicts the new and reinforces the old. At these junctures of self-reflection, I ask the question: “are all my years of hard work unraveling before my eyes, or am I just having an episode?” For the sake of personal growth and the pursuit of equanimity, I choose the latter and accept that, on this journey of evolution, I may not encounter just one bad day, but a group of many.”
― B.G. Bowers

 
RhythmSpring
#5 Posted : 7/27/2015 9:11:07 PM

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Posts: 740
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Last visit: 16-Dec-2019
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Man From Chan Chan wrote:

Avoid combining any of the following with iboga too:

Quote:
POTENT CYP2D6 INHIBITORS
Cannabidiol (from Cannabis)
Echinacea purpurea
Goldenseal
Pomegranate juice (Punica granatum)
Pommelo
Saint John’s Wort (high dose)
Starfruit juice
White grapefruit juice

MODERATE CYP2D6 INHIBITORS
Black pepper
Calamus EO
Kava
Pi. cubeba
Quercetin
Zingiber aromaticum

WEAK CYP2D6 INHIBITORS
Alpha-asarone (found in Calamus EO)
Black cohosh
Capsaicin (found in cayenne pepper, habanero peppers, etc.)
Cayenne pepper
Common sage
Cryptotanshinone
Curcuma heyneana
Curcumin
German chamomile EO
Ginkgo biloba
Habanero pepper
Milk Thistle
Safrole
Tanshinone I
Turmeric


Thank you for this very useful list! Can you give me a quick explanation of why, pharmacologically, a CYP2D6 inhibitor is bad combined with Iboga?

Alk, when I've combined Rhodiola rosea with Iboga, I've felt:

Chest tension
Very strong awakeness (you could do nothing to put me to sleep)
Heart palpitations
Feeling spiritually like a "hammer" ...this one is hard to explain. It sorta has to do with feeling very/too male, psychologically.

Overall, it was a physically and psychologically tense experience I do not wish to repeat.
From the unspoken
Grows the once broken
 
alkan0id
#6 Posted : 7/28/2015 7:12:58 PM

hitchin' a ride

Senior Member

Posts: 144
Joined: 05-Feb-2013
Last visit: 15-Dec-2019
Location: bat country
Man From Chan Chan: thanks for the list.

RS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CYP2D6

Quote:
CYP2D6, a member of the cytochrome P450 mixed-function oxidase system, is one of the most important enzymes involved in the metabolism of xenobiotics in the body. In particular, CYP2D6 is responsible for the metabolism and elimination of approximately 25% of clinically used drugs, in a process referred to as O-demethylation.[1] This enzyme also metabolizes several endogenous substances such as hydroxytryptamines and neurosteroids.[1]


So one wonders if CYP2D6 inhibitors don't interfere with the metabolism of ALL plant-based entheogens? This might explain why many report smoking cannabis makes certain entheogens much stronger, since CBD is in the list of "potent" 2d6 inhibitors. Also of note is pomegranate juice being listed as a potent inhibitor of this enzyme. As I recall, this is Trav's favourite medium for dissolving and masking the taste of DMT fumarate. I wonder what effect if any this has on the effect of DMT?

I guess this enzyme is a bigger concern of iboga because the alkaloids in iboga take so much longer to break down than other phyto-tryptamines. Either way, something in the passiflora and/or the melatonin not only brought the trip back to life (or death) after it was all but gone, but extended the afterglow visuals to a good 36 hours after ingestion, something I've not had before with previous experiements at this dose range.
Uh uh. I know what you're thinking. "Did he load 40 milligrams or only 30?" Well to tell you the truth in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being this is DMT, the most powerful hallucinogen in the world and would blow your head clean off, you've gotta ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?
 
 
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